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Walleye Fishing -> General Discussion -> Walleye Tournaments for 2015
 
Message Subject: Walleye Tournaments for 2015
sworrall
Posted 10/16/2014 11:22 PM (#112654)
Subject: Walleye Tournaments for 2015




Location: Rhinelander
It looks like AIM WWS, NWT, and MWC for the 2015 season. I understand the MWC is expanding again in 2015, and changes to the better are underway.

Looks like the NWT is status quo after a couple successful seasons. The 2015 schedule folks are saying they have head some muttering about, but it IS the biggest game in town by a long shot.

AIM WWS has it going on, that looks good for 2015.

As a fan, what do you think of the 2015 season? What about as tournament anglers?
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Sunshine
Posted 10/18/2014 12:05 PM (#112656 - in reply to #112654)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015



Member

Posts: 2393

Location: Waukesha Wisconsin
I don't confess of knowing the business plan for the tournaments. I will only speculate that they make more profit from sponsor contributions, TV revenue etc than from entry fees. I will guess that for the most part we all gamble against each other playing for those entry fees. A little simplistic reasoning but close to accurate, give or take sponsor bonus monies, sponsor initiatives and the like. So you could look at it as entry fees supporting our possible revenue not theirs. This is where the catch 22 comes in. Low turn out and you get low payouts. But low payouts can and will cause low turnouts in the long run.

I will also speculate that there is a small percentage of people who actually get their entry fees paid by their sponsors. Some well known names will have contracts tied into doing tournaments. These teams may not have actual performance tied into contracts or paid entries. These are the people that will always compete regardless of payout margins. However, the makeup of average entrant pays their own way and ARE concerned about payouts and entry fees. Some do not want entry fees raised but would like to see higher payouts. Others will pay higher entry fees to get higher payouts. These groups will always argue with each other.

Many of us remember the days of 200+ boats with great payouts. Would love to see those days again. But how do you get that pendulum to swing back for higher participation? You have to offer something that intices people to play. Usually people go after the $$ There's your catch 22.

All I know for certain, is that if we keep getting 50-60 boat tournaments no one will be happy. Not the Tournaments, not the sponsors and not the average fisherman/woman. There really is nothing the teams can do to help with this except enter tournaments and try to convince others to enter.

The growth and success is in the hands of the tournament owners. They need to provide a product that is attractive to more sponsors and participants. And they need to increase financial support. That's their off season mission. And I'm sure they are more than willing to listen to ideas.

All I know is that we need bigger payouts. We had a 3rd and 4th place finish this year in the MWC. Not too shabby. But financially our costs exceeded our payouts. I remember a tine when this would not be the case. I know part of the problem is low turnouts. But how do you attract more teams if the payouts aren't there?
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KHedquist
Posted 10/19/2014 8:24 PM (#112657 - in reply to #112654)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015



Member

Posts: 1991

The AIM WWS sounds interesting didn't get a chance to fish any in 2014 schedule conflicts. I like the fact that they aren't all troll o thons. Looking forward to seeing what the schedule brings.
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stacker
Posted 10/24/2014 9:17 AM (#112666 - in reply to #112654)
Subject: RE: Walleye Tournaments for 2015


Member

Posts: 2445

Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
I am happy to announce that I will be the tournament director for the Wisconsin division of Aim Weekend Walleye Series for the 2015 season. I look forward to giving the fisherman a great series to show off there talents.

Denny Fox
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FishnFool
Posted 10/25/2014 9:43 AM (#112670 - in reply to #112666)
Subject: RE: Walleye Tournaments for 2015


Member

Posts: 113

Denny great job last year looking forward to doing the whole series this year I absolutely love the format Aims motto should be "SAVE THE FISH" sure works and tournament detractors can't justify their "WHINING" sure protects are resources.Last year the other tournaments ended up kill tournaments .
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bagowalleyeguy
Posted 10/28/2014 9:27 PM (#112682 - in reply to #112654)
Subject: RE: Walleye Tournaments for 2015



Member

Posts: 166

Location: Freedom, WI
As Walleye fishermen, we must realize that we are way behind the Bass world. There is a lot to learn from how Bass circuits are run, as they have caught on like wildfire in recent years in the south and are even now regularly on ESPN. Walleye fishing has the same potential to get big in the Midwest, it just needs to figure out how to generate public interest. Tournaments like Walleye Weekend in Fond du lac draw huge crowds, which proves that there is an interest. I feel that holding more Walleye tournaments in conjunction with other large scale events will really help get the public more interested in our sport. Youth fishing events and media coverage are two other great ways of building a fan base. Simply put, more fans = more sponsors = better payouts = more anglers
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sworrall
Posted 10/29/2014 7:57 AM (#112684 - in reply to #112654)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015




Location: Rhinelander
Age old problem of how the sport gets the fans to engage. Walleye Central has zero coverage, and the tourney websites are not the strongest these days. We offer what we can here....but I am sure we can improve our coverage. What would you like to see WalleyeFIRST do to improve the fans experience?
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Brian Hoffies
Posted 10/30/2014 3:27 PM (#112690 - in reply to #112682)
Subject: RE: Walleye Tournaments for 2015


New User

Posts: 2

bagowalleyeguy - 10/28/2014 9:27 PM

As Walleye fishermen, we must realize that we are way behind the Bass world. There is a lot to learn from how Bass circuits are run, as they have caught on like wildfire in recent years in the south and are even now regularly on ESPN. Walleye fishing has the same potential to get big in the Midwest, it just needs to figure out how to generate public interest. Tournaments like Walleye Weekend in Fond du lac draw huge crowds, which proves that there is an interest. I feel that holding more Walleye tournaments in conjunction with other large scale events will really help get the public more interested in our sport. Youth fishing events and media coverage are two other great ways of building a fan base. Simply put, more fans = more sponsors = better payouts = more anglers



Walleye fishing will never, ever, ever be as popular as Bass fishing. The numbers of people fishing each species is just to different. If people need to be a "famous" fisherman these days maybe he should switch over to Bass? The numbers there dictate that TV coverage plus print plus internet will equal far more sponsor dollars. It's a fact, not wishful thinking. To make more money on the Walleye tourney scene you either need more people, higher entries, don't pay as far down the field and front load the payouts or lower your expense's. Beyond that I don't see many guys making any money on a National circuit. Just my opinion.
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Brian Hoffies
Posted 10/30/2014 3:31 PM (#112691 - in reply to #112684)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015


New User

Posts: 2

sworrall - 10/29/2014 7:57 AM

Age old problem of how the sport gets the fans to engage. Walleye Central has zero coverage, and the tourney websites are not the strongest these days. We offer what we can here....but I am sure we can improve our coverage. What would you like to see WalleyeFIRST do to improve the fans experience?



Steve I appreciate all you are doing. The photo's are great, my only problem is the photo looks great but I have ZERO idea who the picture is of. I wouldn't know these guys if they were standing next to me. If there is a way you can label the pictures with the made of the guys in the boat it would help me a bunch.

Keep up the good work, there people watching what you are doing and they appreciate it.
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FishnFool
Posted 10/30/2014 6:33 PM (#112692 - in reply to #112682)
Subject: RE: Walleye Tournaments for 2015


Member

Posts: 113

bagowalleyeguy you see the crowds with Merc national you have to realize it's tied in with a whole weekend of family activities thru out the city. take all that away and the crowd diminishes your back to those interested which would be far less. So to get that interest the promoters would really have to get city participation to make it a weekend event and get some promotion from the city that the tourney is held in a lot of logistics for the tournament director and the city hosting the tournament for a one day tournament not gonna work.

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bagowalleyeguy
Posted 11/2/2014 6:40 PM (#112700 - in reply to #112654)
Subject: RE: Walleye Tournaments for 2015



Member

Posts: 166

Location: Freedom, WI
Having Walleye Tournaments during other festivities is a great way for the sport to gain new fans IMO because the people are already there for other reasons. I feel that these big events could do a better job of hyping up the tournaments and giving the spectators an action packed weigh-in that the average person would find intriguing. A good tournament director that can keep the crowd engaged in the weigh in process is huge, as they are the focal point for spectators.

Local News coverage with interviews of some of the pros as well as the tournament director would also spark new interest. Social media has also become a crucial way of gaining popularity with anything, Walleye fishing being no exception. AIM has done a nice job this year with on the water updates and live weigh in, building hype helps build interest.

There have also been pros filming their pre fishing and tournaments and then making YouTube videos that are great! People love to feel like they know "athletes" and find an interest in how they do things which these videos do a great job of showing!

I totally understand that Walleye fishing will never compete with the bass world, but I do believe that Walleye fishing can continue to gain popularity throughout the Midwest in the years to come.
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FishnFool
Posted 11/2/2014 7:27 PM (#112701 - in reply to #112654)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015


Member

Posts: 113

I agree with you the advantage the bass tournaments have is they tie in with local circuits that are inexpensive or a lot cheaper then to step up to another level they pay more with their points it keeps going up with qualifiers and so on how could awalleye circuit do it like the bass guys there has to be a formula that could add interest to get the ball rolling again the walleye circuits need a push to bring back interest Do they get together and talk to each other where the whole benefits . I'm going to use the npaa only as an example look what they accomplish how many pros get together if the circuits can get people to voice what may work might get the interest going. when was the last time the tournament leaders asked for input
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sworrall
Posted 11/2/2014 8:07 PM (#112702 - in reply to #112654)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015




Location: Rhinelander
I think the circuits ask the anglers, which is probably like herding cats trying to get any consensus for obvious reasons. Not sure any truly are trying to reach out to the fans of the sport...are they? I think social media is a tool in the box, but it's not the entire tool box. My observation is folks generally don't use Facebook to 'follow' a sporting event, they watch the event unfold and talk/comment/argue about it on Facebook. I don't see social media as an effective primary tournament news source, especially for fishing tournaments.
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GNWC Rookie
Posted 11/3/2014 10:00 AM (#112704 - in reply to #112702)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015


Member

Posts: 625

Location: LaCrosse, WI
Walleye fishing isn't nearly as exciting for the casual viewer to watch either. It's always more exciting for a casual viewer to see a big bass blow up a frog thrown to a pile of slop than it is to watch a couple fat guys pulling boards around.

I only fish Walleyes, but I am well aware that the excitement factor isn't there for people who aren't into it. Another thing that's happened is that circuits have been forced to go where the highest percentage of anglers are. Which might get them more entries, but it also doesn't expand the exposure any farther than those areas.

Look at Wisconsin for example. Want to fish a Walleye tournament on any given weekend? The best chance is Winnebago or Green Bay. It makes sense, but that's putting the vast majority of decent sized tournaments in the entire state on two bodies of water. This has effectively isolated 3/4 of the state from Walleye tournaments.

I don't blame the circuits, I blame the anglers. We've had circuits that have traveled to other bodies of water, but everybody at this level seems to want to cherry pick their home water tournaments, and not fish any body of water that doesn't fit their styles. I had to fish everywhere but my home waters to fish in tournaments, and am a 100 times better angler than I started as because of it.

We have to get over this trollers only troll, and jiggers only jig mentality. Building exposure to Walleye tournaments will have to come through showcasing the bodies of water and the techniques in a new way to grab the average fisherman. I don't know what the answer is, but I know that more of the same isn't going to get it done.
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Sunshine
Posted 11/6/2014 5:30 AM (#112707 - in reply to #112704)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015



Member

Posts: 2393

Location: Waukesha Wisconsin
Yup, you could go back 10 years and read the exact same post with same ideas and responses.
Fact is WE ARE BORING!
weigh-ins are boring
TV coverage, if there is any is boring.
The only people that attend weigh-ins are family and friends.
People find out quick that they will learn nothing at a weigh-in because we are too tight lipped.
And yes, watching boards is boring.
In the bass world you watch people catch fish. In the walleye world you watch people net fish. Doubt me? Go back and watch your last walleye tournament again. Boring!
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jerry
Posted 11/6/2014 6:41 AM (#112708 - in reply to #112654)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015


Member

Posts: 2567

Location: Manitowoc, WI
Well said Sunshine!!
Nothing has changed.
AIM had a concept to run events in conjunction with an area event, similar to the Walleye Weekend in Fondy. I thought that might help jump start the interest. Too bad they met with tough economic times.
Walleye tournaments simply aren't interesting enough to draw people on their own.
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Sunshine
Posted 11/6/2014 11:41 AM (#112710 - in reply to #112654)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015



Member

Posts: 2393

Location: Waukesha Wisconsin
Nice hearing from you Jerry. Hope all is well.

I kinda disagree with Steve. I think publicizing and giving live updates on ALL media including Facebook, Twitter, walleye websites, tournament web sites, Instagram, etc. helps get the word out and keeps interest. I thought the old live chats while watching the live weigh-ins helped. But people like Steve have a much better handle on if that was successful. I'll assume the same small circle of people were the only ones watching?

In this day and age, I do not understand why every boat it a tournament doesn't have GPS tracking and live camera feeds. I'd gladly pay upfront charges for this if required by a tournament than paying fictional memberships. Or require each tournament fisherman to purchase their own. Get the required sponsors to offer this at a discount.

As usual I'll be crucified by saying this......... Get rid of trolling and get rid of live bait during tournaments. I truly believe doing so will grow the sport and grow more interest.

Hey, anyone else miss the good old days when we would argue.....er discuss these things with Stacker? Guess he needs to be more PC now that he has joined dark side....... Lol

There is no one easy answer or it would have been done long ago. A few other ideas include:

In the walleye world, AIM leads the way. They (and BASS) have the GPS tracking along with on the water coverage. I have spent hours watching the BASS website for live updates. Seeing AIM doing updates on Facebook excites me about the tournament.

Seeing 40 pictures of boats launching or idling around does nothing for me. Your time is better spent interviewing the leaders or local hotshots (which I know you do).

Some coverage needs to start at least a week before. Many do not even know the tournament is happening until the day before at the earliest. Hard to build excitement this way.

In-depth interview of winners after tournament giving winning techniques is a must.
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Ken Krueger
Posted 11/6/2014 12:08 PM (#112712 - in reply to #112654)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015


Member

Posts: 18

MWC
MWS
MWWS
AIM
NWT
PWT
What do they mean to the "outside the walleye world person?" Nothing. BASS gets away with because it tells you what they are fishing for Bass and you just know that is the top bass guys in the country. Why? Because they have been around forever......... unlike the walleye world. There is a new acronym every couple of years in the walleye world and more than likely you have to guess to try to figure out what it means. I have no idea what BASS stands for but I can tell you what it is. When promoting everything about you has to "stick" “make sense”. .02$
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sworrall
Posted 11/7/2014 3:39 PM (#112713 - in reply to #112654)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015




Location: Rhinelander
Dennis,
I was speaking to the attempts lately to use social media, specifically Facebook, as the primary media for tournament coverage by the circuits themselves. Sure, I get it...it's free and easy, but look at the reach. Get them to tell you total post reach.

Social media is a tool in the box, but it's NOT a hammer, and when used as one, the nail gets bent quite often.

AIM hasn't had GPS tracking since they parted ways with OFM. Zach designed the system, and was the only one capable (and that is a fact) of creating a Navionics overlay to track the top 5 on the water for a reasonable cost and in a reasonable timeframe. The AIM website has become static and slow to update, instead of instantly/consistently, just as is the MWC site and NWT site.

The 'live' updates that were on the AIM website are now on Facebook, and here's the rub:

'No one' goes to any Facebook pages for news from that person, business, or organization.

A page we manage has 24K likes, and the video views, image views, and reach is excellent. That page had 5 visits this week.

The news and information we are creating and posting there is viewed on the news feed of the folks who 'like' the page, so why would I, as a fan, go look at that page?

No sponsor info, no banners, no promotion, no ANYTHING except what is in that update in my news feed, and then viewed only by a small segment of the folks who 'like' the page.

If you don't advertise and advertise quite a bit, you will not reach anywhere near the number of folks who have 'liked' the page.

TV is after the fact, and WELL after the fact. It's been deemed necessary, and I agree it's very important to the sponsors. Anyone know the numbers for the NWT or MWC shows? It would be interesting to see the numbers.

Here's part of what's wrong:

The main source of information for any circuit since this all began has been the Circuit promoters themselves. Who do they reach? Why is the reach so low?

What sources are there for 'independent' real time coverage of any walleye event? I mean real coverage, as in being there and reporting in depth? There's a couple start ups that will do what Bassfan has done and Walleyefan did before failing...for the most part regurgitating what's already out there. That is regurgitated 'boring'. Content is what drives interest, and I believe we can improve on that BIG TIME here and elsewhere.
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Johnnie Candle
Posted 11/8/2014 11:40 AM (#112716 - in reply to #112654)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015



Member

Posts: 120

Location: Devils Lake, ND
Closed mindedness is what is killing the game. Doesn't matter if it is media, the venues, the players, or the rules. Bottom line is all I hear is we want what we used to have. This is the one time I agree with Robert Cartlidge of the MWC; folks that doesn't work. PWT - Gone, FLW - Gone, AIM (Pro Series) - mostly dead. Those models do not work anymore.

The problem is when the organizers try to make changes, the anglers stand high and mighty against them. Case in point, artificial only. I agree with Sunshine, no more live bait and I would give up trolling too. The MWC tried to make a step in that direction. Was it prodded by sponsors, sure it was. Hey we need them too. So what happened? In Devils Lake, ND two years ago in August it was a huge success. The weights were actually higher than any other summer event on Devils Lake. The anglers loved it and loved the challenge. Many new things came from that; ie Jigging Raps in the summer, gulp on spinners, casting shallow in August. Things that were not always the norm in walleye angling.

The MWC decides to take it a step further, great idea IMHO. The anglers in Spring Valley decide that they do not like the idea, no one signs up, then they take it a step further and their club decides to not offer help to the MWC in their future Spring Valley endeavors.

Really? C'mon man. If we have to fight ourselves, we will continue to go backwards.

Just look at the threads on the major websites announcing the NWT schedules. How many folks have even replied? It is not even 5 on any thread I can find. Not so sure folks are as fired up as they used to be.

I have made a career out of this game for over 20 years now. Some years were really good, others I barely got by. I remember a time when there were 50 to 70 others that also made a career of the game. Now I bet there isn't ten of us. This also hurts the game. If you do not do this full time, you most likely do not care about the coverage, or the fact the game is boring to watch (oh look a planer board is coming in sideways again). You want all the money to come back to the anglers in the form of payouts. I personally don't give a rip about the pay outs (to a point). We drove to PA to lose money for a 3rd place finish and that did not upset me near as much as the 45 seconds of air time we got. We made a huge commitment to the circuit to drive that far, we fished well, and there was no pay back at all; neither financially or promotionally.

The game is broken. It will never again be the same. The promotional value seems to be dwindling. The payouts are bad because no one is fishing. We all know the things that are wrong. Now lets fix them. I had a mentor tell me once, "you can bring all the things that are wrong with this company to me you want, you better bring an answer with them."

My answer is this, open your minds. Try fishing with artificials only. Don't shun new bodies of water. The biggest weigh in crowd I saw in the past 5 years was at The Zoo in PA. Have some skin in the game. If we as anglers need to all have a go pro or similar camera in our boats, then do it. Maybe we all need a tablet of some sort, who cares. We spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to compete, yet spend nothing to make the game more attractive.

I have no idea where I will be fishing next year. Many of my sponsors have given me the green light to "just get us exposure". For what I spend on fishing a circuit, I can do many other things to generate exposure. Last year on the MWC, Dennis "Sunshine" Skurulsky and I had a 3rd and a 4th place out of the three events we fished. Did anyone even know? Did they know what we used to catch them? Did they know what electronics we used or what boat we drove? These used to be the things folks knew about an angler and why I could make a living at the game. My job is to get that word out and my favorite way of doing that is not getting it done anymore.

If I just want to compete, I may stay local and regional and spend the money on other promotional ideas. It is going to be the toughest off season I have ever had making a decision on where I go.

Sorry for rambling a bit, but this is a very good discussion. I enjoy the banter and keep thinking someday a good idea will actually come from this.
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sworrall
Posted 11/9/2014 12:00 AM (#112717 - in reply to #112691)
Subject: Re: Walleye Tournaments for 2015




Location: Rhinelander
Brian Hoffies - 10/30/2014 3:31 PM

sworrall - 10/29/2014 7:57 AM

Age old problem of how the sport gets the fans to engage. Walleye Central has zero coverage, and the tourney websites are not the strongest these days. We offer what we can here....but I am sure we can improve our coverage. What would you like to see WalleyeFIRST do to improve the fans experience?



Steve I appreciate all you are doing. The photo's are great, my only problem is the photo looks great but I have ZERO idea who the picture is of. I wouldn't know these guys if they were standing next to me. If there is a way you can label the pictures with the made of the guys in the boat it would help me a bunch.

Keep up the good work, there people watching what you are doing and they appreciate it.


We will be shooting two albums each day in 2015 at each Walleye tournament. One will be general images, and the other about 15 captioned 'top shots' where we describe the action shot and who's in it. Joel and Dave have been using that format at BassFIRST, and it's very well received. Great suggestion, we will do it!
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