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Member
Posts: 1406
| How do these types of line items wind up in a budget bill?????
Taken from another site,
There are some policy items that is included in the budget bill going before the Governor. The WDNR is currently working to request that Gov Doyle line item veto these items.
29.426 Catch and release bass fishing. No person may use any hook, bait, or lure, other than an artificial lure that has a barbless hook, while fishing during a catch and release bass fishing season established by the department.
29.428 Catch and release muskellunge fishing. (1) The department shall establish a fishing season that authorizes catch and release muskellunge fishing on inland waters north of USH 10 other than the boundary waters between this state and the state of Michigan. The catch and release muskellunge fishing season established under this section shall begin on the first day of the general fishing season established by the department and shall end on the day before the first day of the regular muskellunge fishing season established by the department. (2) No person may use any hook, bait, or lure, other than an artificial lure that has a barbless hook, while fishing during the catch and release muskellunge fishing season established by the department under sub. (1).
What a crock do we need to call the govenor or will the DNR have enough power to be sure this gets the Axe?
Good luck
Tyee
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Member
Posts: 3899
| Looks like the Bass guys got a bit of organization. Way more than the walleye guys in this state.
I don't necessarily agree with the first, but I do agree with the second.
Isn't this how the new tourney regs debacle started?
This is politics. That's how things get done in Madison and Washington. Attaching pet projects onto budget bills and the like. I bet if you looked further into the bill, you'd find lots of items that don't seem to fit in a budget bill. | |
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Member
Posts: 1656
| I'm guessing very much the same way a culling study ends up being a new tax on a select group of recreational users. | |
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Posts: 591
Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | as i look over this budget i see that the increases on what is proposed will cost me another weeks income... im an average joe ... im not counting the cig tax of a buck a pack either... that is a choice for people... im talking obout the registraiton of vehicals and all the other nickle and dime stuff.. im thinking it will add up to about 400 a year for me and since i already pay about 50% of my gross with all the existing fees and crap i need to make 800 dollars more this year to cover that 400 dollar increase the budget went up 6% and there is still a shortfall.. this is crap,,, the boys are talking about michigan and the budget ... wisconsin will soon follow.. there are only 52 weeks in a year and i just donated another one week of work or for many two weeks ... i put my boat away for the winter yesterday .. im cutting back on my fishing season ,,, im going to put it away early and get it out late.... oh and as far as your lake water levels.... interesting fact i found out... to make a gallon of ethinal(corn gas) you need 11 houndread gal. of water.. 4 gal at the refinery.. looks thike this country is willing to drain its most valuble recorce fresh water .. for irigation to grow corn for fuel that actualy when your done driving all the tractors and harvesting trucks along with shipping the corn and shipping the corn gas after you actualy use more desil fuel than that truck load of corn will produce ... this is what we are dealing with... insider lobys using public moneys to support private industry and favors.. im a conservitive individual.. im so sick od sell outs... | |
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| Q: How does 'legislation like this get into the budget?
A: Lots of $$$ stuffed into your elected officials pockets and deal making done behind closed doors.
So much for open government with public debate.  | |
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| Is it possible to see which representative(s) wrote or sponsored the additions to the budget bill? If so, and if such things are deemed negative to us as a group, we need to take a hard stand against such a person(s) in the next election. It is time for us to band together in such a way. I have talked about and proposed a National Organization of Fishing Clubs, but couldn't get past square 2 after the friend I was working with on it took ill. Maybe it was too high a goal anyway. What about an organization that is represented by every fishing club, group and organization in Wisconsin. Each club, each chapter, each group could send two representatives to discuss such things and get the word out as to what we can do as a group. Small groups, no matter how loud, have very little power, but if a person stood up and said " I represent 10,000 votes", he would have a better chance.
For instance, there's a Harnischfeger Sportsman's club and many other company groups. Walleye clubs, conservation groups and every group, (properly organized) could be represented. | |
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Member
Posts: 1314
Location: Menasha, WI | Doc, It looks like these additions were snuck in during the conference committee process. When added there, rather than on the floor, no formal motion is necessary allowing the guilty parties to remain relatively anonymous. You could point fingers at the entire conference committee I suppose. | |
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Posts: 591
Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | its not over ... the gov is going to do his dog and pony picture show and sign this thing and then there going to go back and add more crap to this budget and vote agian... there going crazy with this one... im going to snap! oh also a 2 million dollar grant to trucking companies in wisconsin so they can install heating and cooling units in there trucks at taxpayer expense so they dont have to idle the big rigs wile doing there 10 hours of down time a day.. cut fuel consumption... and to boost a wisconsin company that builds these units... we all know will most likely end up getting produced in china for pennies on the dollar anyway down the road... 2 million tax dollars here two million there ... there handing your money out like candy. wake up. fishing related or not ... this is crap... on the other post michigan is complaining because there tax revinue is down and there threatening to cut the DNR budget... oh well , id like to help out but because i live in the tax hell of wisconsin , im not too fired up to spend a 300 dollar bill or more to head up to michigan to get some hunting and fishing in.... cant swing it ... sory tapped out.!!!! | |
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| Its now Law! Legislature doing the DNR's job this just plain STINKS.
I just can't see crushing all the barbs on my Lucky Strike Bass lures while Walleye fishing the opener! Or having to buy duplicate cowgirls and crushing them at 25 bucks a pop! Why does this state employ DNR personal or Biologists if we are not using them as intended?
Good luck
Tyee
The only thing that was vetoed was the requirement for EVERYONE to use barbless hooks during the NEW musky catch and release season, which will start on May 3, 2008, north of US Highway 10.
______________________________________________ From: Staggs, Mike D - DNR Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:02 PM To: Staggs, Mike D - DNR; DNR DL WD FH Fish Brd; Stark, Randall J - DNR; Van Haren, Thomas - DNR Cc: Simonson, Timothy D - DNR; Hennessy, Joseph - DNR; Scheidegger, Karl J - DNR Subject: RE: Budget Items relating to musky and bass seasons FW: Budget Vetoes
I forgot to mention below that anglers fishing for musky or bass during the catch-release seasons must also use only artificial lures.
_____________________________________________ From: Staggs, Mike D - DNR Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:57 AM To: DNR DL WD FH Fish Brd; Stark, Randall J - DNR; Van Haren, Thomas - DNR Cc: Simonson, Timothy D - DNR; Hennessy, Joseph - DNR; Scheidegger, Karl J - DNR Subject: Budget Items relating to musky and bass seasons FW: Budget Vetoes Importance: High
FYI: We were surprised to learn that the budget also included a new musky catch and release season for the period between the opening day and whenever the musky season opens north of Hwy 10 for inland waters (no change for MI boundary waters, unclear yet on MN boundary waters).
More troubling however was misdrafted actual language relating to use of barbless hooks. The legislature intended to require the use of barbless hooks only for those fishing for bass or muskies during any catch and release seasons - but as written and then approved by the legislature below, the statute would have required EVERYBODY to fish with barbless hooks during either the newly created musky CR season or the long standing bass CR season in N WI. It would have been very helpful if somebody had consulted with us prior to this happening, but such are the foibles of including non-budget policy items in a large omnibus budget bill.
We have brought this to the attention of the administration and they have decided to veto the word "during" in each of the new subsections (demarcated in red below). The belief is that the new wording "while fishing a catch and release bass fishing season" or "while fishing the catch and release muskellunge fishing season" can be construed to apply only to those actually fishing for bass and/or muskies, and it is my understanding that is how LE will enforce this next spring.
Bottom line is that there will be a musky catch and release season on inland waters north of Highway 10 from May 3rd until May 23, 2008. Barbless hooks will be required of any anglers fishing for muskies during this period. Barbless hooks will also be required for any anglers fishing for largemouth or smallmouth bass in the Northern Bass Management Zone from May 3rd until June 20, 2008.
Please share this information with your affected fisheries staff so they will be aware of this new rule and be able to answer any questions that may arise from the public. We'll figure out how to get the word out to the public as the season approaches.
29.426 Catch and release bass fishing. No person may use any hook, bait, or lure, other than an artificial lure that has a barbless hook, while fishing *during* a catch and release bass fishing season established by the department.
29.428 Catch and release muskellunge fishing. (1) The department shall establish a fishing season that authorizes catch and release muskellunge fishing on inland waters north of USH 10 other than the boundary waters between this state and the state of Michigan. The catch and release muskellunge fishing season established under this section shall begin on the first day of the general fishing season established by the department and shall end on the day before the first day of the regular muskellunge fishing season established by the department. (2) No person may use any hook, bait, or lure, other than an artificial lure that has a barbless hook, while fishing *during* the catch and release muskellunge fishing
season established by the department under sub. (1).
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Member
Posts: 3899
| You won't have to use barbless hooks unless you are fishing for bass or muskies during this season. If you are after pike, walleye, panfish, carp, etc, it doesn't affect you.
Anybody who voted for Doyle because he said he would not raise your taxes? Well, let's just say, I hope you are happy now. | |
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Member
Posts: 617
Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | What does this issue have to do with taxes? Did I miss something, or is Shep just taking a shot at Doyle?
Why so much opposition to this? I would think more opportunity is a good thing, as long as they are opening up the opportunity to everyone without establishing another fee or stamp for it. | |
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Member
Posts: 1656
| "Why does this state employ DNR personal or Biologists if we are not using them as intended?" That's a damn good question, even if we can't seem to agree on certain issues. as they say, becareful what you wish for.
I like the idea of a catch and release season for muskie, as far as I'm concnerned why even make special regs, everyone releases now, right? and if you don't handle the fish correct or release it, I'm sure there'll be plenty of people to "remind" you. I love the holier than thou attitude some of these guys have. 
Seriously, I'm in favor of the season, I don't favor how it got "pushed through" but politics have always been self serving in the party that is most interested. It's just ashame that more people can't get along to come to a consensous on issues like these. | |
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Member
Posts: 1406
| Show me one bit of scientific evidence that shows that it would not harm the population during this stressful time and I would be all for it. There are no studies that show this anywhere and this opens up the opportunity for violators to take those fat 50+ for the wall. It will be nearly impossible to manage and write tickets for those said violators. It will be nearly impossible for our wardens whom are already taxed.
Good Luck
Tyee | |
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Member
Posts: 1656
| Now you want scientific eveidence? You didn't seem to care about that scientific evidence when it came to the culling study.
Harming the population...The only people that are going to fish muskies according to the rules are the die hards, and we all know the die hards handle the fish properly etc etc. and there will be no harm done, Right?
As for the violators, if they'er really out violating all these 50+" said fish that you claim, do you really think they care about any change in regulations? Do you honestly beleive that a violator is going to change his habits because the regs changed? I would actually tend to disagree, violators don't like company when they are up to thier shennigans, if there are people actually out fishing (legally). I would guess they'd be a little less tempted to keep an illgal fish if there are more eyes watching them. | |
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Posts: 3899
| Yep. I am am taking a shot at Doyle. The budget bill is all about taxes. This somehow got attached to this bill. That's the way thing work in Madison and Washington.
I'm all for this new season. Other than that 60 lber through the ice many years ago, I haven't actually heard on anyone poaching 50"+ muskies. Man, if a person wants a fish for the wall, he can just order a replica.
Edited by Shep 10/31/2007 11:35 AM
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Member
Posts: 1314
Location: Menasha, WI | Doyle didn't have anything to do with this getting atttached to the bill. He may have signed it into law but it was the senate that stuck it on. I don't think poaching is the primary concern with the new season. I'd say it's the potential affect on spawning muskies that is of concern. AFAIK, many of the self-sustaining muskie populations in the state are north of Hwy 10. | |
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Location: Rhinelander | There is actually quite a body of evidence that catching and releasing spawning fish per se is not harmful, but most of the scientific material out there is on LM Bass.
I think this is about the most ridiculous thing I have seen since the Black powder Deer Season debacle.
Shep, sure, fish Pike with a barbed hook spinnerbait, but hope like hell the Warden 'interprets' that lure as a Pike lure, not a Bass or Muskie lure. Live bait will be somewhat of a problem, too, what am I fishing for with a 6" shiner? Do I need a barbless hook to be sure I don't get a ticket even though I am fishing Pike? God save you if you catch a muskie on it when the Warden is around. Not to mention the extra enforcement load; now that same warden has to check my HOOKS?? Sheesh.
First:
Wisconsin Lawmakers shouldn't mess with fisheries management unless requested to by the DNR or the Public in a VERY open and PUBLIC manner. My opinion, anyway.
Second:
The law includes the 'barbless' requirement BECAUSE thee was little or no input from Fisheries Scientists or Biologists, and is there to appease any possible objection, IMHO.
Third:
This barbless rule is like the 'no magnification' scope law for black powder. My 50 reaches out 100 yards and more easy, but I can't use a scope because then...the deer...well, you see, it isn't 'traditional' like the rif l e...oh yeah, you are using a bolt closure breech loader with sabots and a rifle primer...but we want the deer to..uhh.
And you shall now use barbless hooks DURING THE C&R SAESON ONLY because.... during the rest of the year those regular hooks ki...no wait, they don't really...but...CPR...Uhhh...whatcha fishin fer, there, fella? that hook gotta barb? | |
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Member
Posts: 1656
| Quick some one get a cold bucket of water, I think Steve is about to come uncorked.
That's some good reading right there. | |
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Member
Posts: 617
Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | The long and short of it is that MANY people have become increasingly frustrated with the DNR. They (DNR) have gotten away from their primary purpose IMHO and that is to manage the natural resources of our great state.
Once the DNR abondoned scientific rationale for political gain (youth hunts, management of CWD, the t-zone, earn-a-buck seasons, muzzleloader season, baiting, the culling study, and last but not least the absolute ridiculous manner in which they are handling the VHS issue, they have essentially declare themselves a politicial entity. Once the DNR starts making decisions based on politics, gut feelings, emotion, or the way the little hairs on the back of your neck stand up from time to time, they have opened the door for legislators to step in and do the same thing.
My hope is that one of these things blows up in the DNR's face soon - and with enough force to make the powers that be in Madison realize that fish, deer, and land are not political and must be managed without political motive. Unfortunately, as long as there are people willing to support the DNR on some of these issue because it suits their personal interest best, things are probably going to get worse, not better.
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Member
Posts: 3899
| Never said Doyle had anything to do with attaching this to the budget. He did have the opportunity to get it off the bill. He chose not to. He also said before the last election, quite emphatically, that he would not raise taxes if he was re-elected. Uhm, I think he was fibbing.
Steve, I agree with everything you say. Stupid is as stupid does. And WI politicians do a lot of stupid things.
I don't blame the DNR for any of this. The WI system is totally political when it comes to the DNR and it's policies and implementation. We don't let them do their jobs. We ask them what they think, then take it to the Conservation Congress, hold meeting in the spring attended by armchair biologists, vote on it, and then maybe it is approved, or not. Either way, it is a screwed up system. I am all for doing away with the whole deal, and let these people do what they are hired to do. They are the experts, not Jo Legislator. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Amen Brother Shep,
I agree with everything you just said. | |
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Posts: 617
Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Why would he WANT to eliminate the bill? Its more fishing opportunites for all of us.
And as far as the taxes, somebody has to clean up the mess that TT left when he went to Washington. Blame him for years of unbridled spending before he got to office if you want, but I don't think it makes any sense to bad mouth him for this. | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | There is 2 ways to do anything, some say the right and wrong. I believe its more about what the one doing it believes in. TT definantly left us in a position. Doyle will leave us in the same position as some will see it.
The one thing we need is a better sportsmans watch dog group to keep an eye on crap that, well.... just ain't politicians business. I am not voting for or against what they done in the bill, I am voting that they should not have had the power to do it. | |
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| Amen Stacker!!!! | |
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Posts: 591
Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | yup, when anyone takes office , national state or local they take the the pledge . to uphold and protect the constitution... yet it seams 95% keep destroying it. they think the should be protecting us.. when there job according to the founding fathers was to protect the constitutuion.. makes you wonder what percentage of them took the time to read it before the took the oath to protect and uphold... not even taught in public schools im afraid. another subject maybe but the root of all of this.. seems to me that power and control have became the noumber one priority of anyone in government , state level too. in this case... the barbless hooks and rules and laws written without any scientific support .. just a small part and yes stacker hit it on the head we are responsible for letting them have all this power and mostley in the last 30 years.. now unfortunatley they dont have to ask for more power, they just take it... going to be hard to stop. im ashamed of myself for not doing more over the years or take the time to try to slow this down... when will people wake up? its a same when a guy can buy 20 acres up north with a hill overlooking the lake... 20 years later.. after paying taxes all his life working hard putting his kids threw school he finaly gets the chance to put up that litle log cottage he always dreamed of and he finds out that he is no longer allowed to build on his land... he finds out that if he is lucky he might be able to pull a trailer in and park it ... but will have to remove it from his land once a year as it can be permanant... and he wont be able to build a dock out far enough from the old shorline to get his boat to the water as the lake level is down from where the natural shoreline was 100 years ago... wait till you buy that new dream fishing boat and cant get the aproval to add on 8ft to the back of your shed when its 90 feet from your lot line.... because your shed can only be 30%of the square footage of your house... even though when you built your house you spent another 20 grand for the lot nextdoor so you would have the room... wait till your local government wont let you put up a 30 foot flag pole and fly the american flag in your front yard... its happining every day guys... just open your eyes. | |
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Posts: 3899
| So you think TT spent all that money? Uhm, didn't we have a Demacrat controlled Assembly and Senate for most of TT's terms? You libs are so predictable. Run like conservatives, and then govern like libs when you win. Absolutlely no shame.
Pretty much agree with Stacker. No politician should be making laws dealing with conservation issues. Let's get the politics out of our fields and lakes, and put it in the hands of the people we HIRE, not elect.
Edited by Shep 11/5/2007 7:26 AM
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| Steve,
Do you know Dan Meyer?? Round up the ponies and get this guy removed from Politics up nort please!!!!!
Good Luck
Tyee
"The item was inserted into the budget bill by Assemblyman Dan Meyer from Eagle River. Meyer has attempted to circumvent the DNR before and has supported this same question about an early barbless musky season at the Vilas County Spring Hearings meeting several times, where it was always soundly defeated. This time, he chose not only to circumvent the DNR, but also to go around all the anglers of the state from having a say in it because of their previous dismissal of the idea. No biologists fisheries personnel, enforcement personnel or any DNR personnel were ever contacted or asked to provide input about the idea from either a biological perspective or even a wording perspective for enforcement purposes."
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WI Budget and fishing related issues