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Location: Menasha, WI | Fishing tournament organizers will have to buy permits beginning in 2009 under new rules state wildlife officials have approved.
Permits would cost $25 to $200 depending on the tournament's size, format, location and prizes.
Tournament organizers also will need a plan to dispose of dead fish, and the state Department of Natural Resources can impose requirements on participants to limit the spread of aquatic invasive species.
The DNR developed the rules to combat crowding at landings and reduce the number of fish that die in catch-and-release tournaments.
The Natural Resources Board approved the rules unanimously on a voice vote.
http://wkow.madison.com/News/index.php?ID=18465 Background on pages 1-6. New rules begin on page 7. http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/fish/fishingtournaments/FH-22-06_11-7-07.pdf |
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| Page 8, sentence 2. That'll be an issue tournament organizers had better address. If you put a fish in your livewell, it had better count against your limit. |
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| thumper, that has always been the law in WI. Sorting/Culling is illegal in WI and that has not changed!
Good luck
Tyee |
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| Daily Bag Liit of 3 means per person? Or Boat? |
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Posts: 617
Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Bag limit is per person.
This rule does nothing to eliminate post release mortality for most events as most don't allow you to put more than a tournament limit in the boat anyway.
However, it does make it more likely that DNR could ticket you for "group bagging" or possibly for fishing with too many lines.
What a disappointment this rule is. |
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Location: Rhinelander | Basically another tax/fee. Wisconsin is good at that.
All a result of the unfunded mandate by our legislature.
A 6 fish per boat bag isn't a big deal, that's OK.
No scientific reason for this, none. Politics at it's finest. |
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| Yes Steve for sure especially if you consider the politics being done by someone that has to solve issues of the same topic from differeing opinions of those same user groups!
Gonna be real interesting to see who gets what part of the Wolf come spring time!
Good Luck
TYEE |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Just read the part of the rules that regulate events on the Wolf River... seems that only two event per 10 mile segment of river can be held PER MONTH. That is certainly going to create some hard feelings.
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | ..."politics being done by someone that has to solve issues of the same topic"...
What issues is this solving? The Wolf will still be crowded in the spring and some people will still complain about the tournaments. |
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| Hey Brad, The Wolf is listed as part of the Winnebago system up to the dam at Shawano, so it's all part of the 3,000 available tournament days per month. Only new rules regarding boundaries, fish disposal effect on the resource and other recreational use conflicts will affect whether permits are issued. |
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Location: Appleton wi | Not much of a change for tournaments such as flw league and mws it only a 1 fish less difference in the box but the hard core merc and otter guys its quit a change on keepers . The one thing that rattles me is why wasnt this a state wide vote by the poeple who purchase the right to fish and registered boat owners? Instead it was done by the "committee" .Oh well times are changing and they always say at work change is good. Right? |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Thanks Doc, my bad on that.
20.03 (19) says: "(19) “Lake Winnebago system” means Lakes Buttes des
Morts, Winneconne, Poygan, Winnebago and all their tributaries
from their mouths upstream to the first dam including the Fox
river from Lake Winnebago upstream to the dam above Princeton
and all its tributaries from their mouths upstream to the first dam
and the Wolf river from its mouth upstream to the dam in the city
of Shawano and all its tributaries from their mouths upstream to
the first dam including Cincoe lake, Partridge Crop lake and Partridge
lake in Calumet, Fond du Lac, Green Lake, Marquette, Outagamie,
Shawano, Waupaca, Waushara and Winnebago counties." |
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| My bad guys I read it a bit too fast, had to get back to work. I was wondering how they snuck that one in there on me without seeing it before! either way it's a mess!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| I'm getting e-mails that say they eliminated the per angler permit sturucture as outlined and they also eliminated the 3 fish limit but left it open enough for them to change it if needed. In addition they opend up the permit application process to 3 years in advance???
I will post the final version when I get it.
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| On page 10 this portion really bothers me! I don't like my 4th amendment rights being violated although I have nothing to hide but our country established these search and seizure laws a long time ago and they have stood up over time!
THIS NEEDS TO BE REMOVED!
(e) For the purpose of enforcing this section, a conservation warden or a representative of the department, upon presentation of his or her credentials or department identification card, is authorized at any time gamefish are possessed during the tournament to open and inspect any live well, holding tank, bag, boat, or other device used to hold or transport fish. (f) No tournament angler, organizer, volunteer or other tournament official may prohibit entry or inspections to be conducted under this section unless a court restrains or enjoins the entry or inspection.
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 1/24/2008 12:21 PM
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Tyee,
I am not siding with the DNR but I was wondering if you could tell me why the areas you mentioned have to be removed? I read them 4 times and wonder what is different from them putting these rules into the tournament rules. They are in the rest of the rules for non tournament guys. The dnr can board your boat at anytime to do a search for illegal possession. |
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| just thought it interesting that it got put in there!
Edited by tyee 1/24/2008 2:38 PM
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| So you're worried about your 4th amendment rights being infringed, which as Denny stated, is not a new thing. Yet you're okay with paying new taxes?
You really make me wonder, Rodger. |
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| I'm more interested in knowing WHY it needs to be in a tournament regulation? Other than to infring on the amount of time my jig is in contact with the bottom of the lake while they search my vessel and possibly letting you slip by me at the scales by a few ounces! As for new "taxes", I see no problem with donating a few more bucks towards the DNR for gathering data that may help them better manage the fishery but as I stated earlier I believe they are taking these "taxes" as you refer to them out of it, as they were writen in there to pay for the studies and the tournament application process! Are you still wondering about me? God I hope not, your wasting valuable time!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| Why does there need to be any more tournament regulation then there was? it'll all infringe upon my time and yours. You were the one supporting new laws to control "us".
As it has been said many times before, "Becareful what you wish for." You made your bed, now ly in it. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | I read these rules 5 times now. As a angler and as a promoter. I hate restrictions as a angler, as a promoter, well, it has helped to lighten the load. I mearly tell you about the rule. you do it wrong and i HAVE TO DQ YOU!! or I loose my privlages. simple as that. I think the good tourneys will stay, and the bad tourneys will be released. I really do not see anything in these rules that makes me want to puke on either end as a walleye guy/promoter. Now, if I was a bass guy. pissy for sure.
The extra tax, well, that was coming with all this whining and added work. I do not like it but thats what happens.
HOWEVER, a loop hole may be on the black and white for the fisherman. Page 8 under section 20.05(7) states... any of the following conditions constitutes possession.
#2 placing a fish into a live well except to revive a fish or to avoid imminent boating danger.
Please tell me that anyone could tell me that I cannot put a fish in my well and release at any time i feel it is in good enough shape to go back with his friends? tell me that you would be able to make a decision on the condition of my fish from another boat as I put it in a well. This one seems like they are leaving the door open for culling with out using the words. maybe thats what they wanted?
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| I was wondering how long it would take for someone to see that! Good for you Denny! See Jayman...regulation can be good!
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 1/24/2008 5:09 PM
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Location: Port Washington, wisconsin | Boy I don't know. After reading these regulations , is it going to be worth the hassle? Paying the fees will be the easy part. Year in advance notification, Verified working livewells on every boat, parking plans submitted, vhs rules explained and followed thru, not to mention invasive species control, local authorities notified of dates and times. Man! Am I reading this correct? |
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| I've done a bit more digging on the 4th amendment right relating to search and seizure and as it has been explained to me the DNR does not have the right to board my vessel without my permission, he can pull up along side and inspect anything within sight. If he asks and I refuse to allow him in he needs a judge to sign a warrant (with probable cause) before he can board and then I believe on federal waters (ie the wolf river) an authorized coast guard person has to be present to accompany any law enforcement officer or state official into my vessel.
I believe this is why the wording was added in the tournament regulation.
Worth thinking about......maybe?
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| Most of the fish that go in my livewell are in imminent danger
As for search & seizure, the DNR does not need a warrent to cross your fence line, or to step on your boat. That's one big difference between the police and the DNR. |
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| That was the sentence that caught my eye when I made the intitial post about it (page 8, line 2). Tournament rules must state that any fish put into your livewell must be added to your limit. Otherwise it is just another loophole...
Dave S |
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| So how exactly do tourneys comply with VHS rules when we leave our boat to go on stage with live fish? |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | page 8 line 2, heck, leave it alone, they knew what they were writing.
as far as VHS you do not have to worry, you are in a state sanctioned tourney taht will be handling the fish or they will be put back in your boat when you are done weighing in. That one is simple.
BAGZ: Quite frankly, there just aint that much more work that a director has to do to run a tournament. These are very small things in the whole picture. What they have put in place fo a promoter is 2 feet to stand on when some one is maybe not doing things correct.
Edited by stacker 1/25/2008 10:39 AM
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Location: Menasha, WI | I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the internet. Concerning search and seizure, it's not as much as a 4th Amendment issue as it is a statutory issue. Other states have explicit statutory language that allows wardens to inspect motor vehicles or boats while taking or transporting game. For example, MN Statute 97A.25 states, "A person may not: (3) refuse to allow inspection of a motor vehicle, boat, or other conveyance used while taking or transporting wild animals." These statutes have regularly been upheld as within the Constituional powers of the enforcement officers on the basis that, "the widespread knowledge of restrictions accompanying the privilege of fishing casts doubt on the reasonableness of an expectation of privacy that would allow an angler to refuse inspection of his catch" and the state's mandate to manage and preserve the state's natural resources (see for example MN State Supreme court ruling in State v. Colosimo). However, to the best of my knowledge, WI has no such statutory provision. To the contrary, the statute outlining the enforcement powers of the DNR states that officers must have reasonable suspicion, "WI 29.921(1) Generally. The department and its wardens may execute and serve warrants and processes issued under any law enumerated in the same manner as any constable may serve and execute the process; and may arrest, with or without a warrant, any person detected in the actual violation, or whom the officer has probable cause to believe is guilty of a violation of any of the laws cited in this subsection, whether the violation is punishable by criminal penalties or by forfeiture, and may take the person before any court in the county where the offense was committed and make a proper complaint. For the purpose of enforcing any of the laws cited in this subsection, any officer may stop and board any boat and stop any vehicle, if the officer reasonably suspects there is a violation of those sections" (emphasis added). The language in the new rules would allow for unimpeded inspection and, given the precedent established in other states, likely passes Constitutional muster. |
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| 7. AIS: The NRB has expressed concern about tournaments spreading VHSand other invasive species. The hearing proposal included a requirementthat tournament organziers submit an AIS plan as part of theirapplication but there is understandably a lot of confusion as to whatthe plan would include and how it would be administered. Given therecent and proposed changes in boat and bait handling laws relating toVHS, we believe the AIS plan requirement is outdated and have replacedit with a requirement that tournament organizers and participants mustcomply with all existing state rules, and that the DNR has the authorityto include appropriate AIS protocols in tournament permits if there areinvasive species issues.
State Sanctioned Tourney??? The state don't sanction any tourney, maybe gives a permit but that isn't sanctioning, I don't believe they are going to let the VHS laws be broken just because it's a tourney. VHS law requires all fish to be dead when leaving the shore!!!
Lets see, how are we going to tell the common fisherman he has to kill his fish but the tourney guys they can carry live fish to the scale??? |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Consider the intent and this becomes a non-issue.
When Joe Tournament Angler pulls up to the dock, puts his fish in a weigh bag and walks to the scale, he is not transporting live fish away from the lake as anyone watching knows that he is going to leave those fish with the tournament officials and walk away with nothing. When Joe Recreational Angler loads his boat, straps it down, and gets back into his vehicle and starts to drive away, his intentions are clearly different than his illigitimate half brother, Joe Tournament Angler.
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| He my be illigitimate but his name is not Joe......it's Bob. Everyone knows that.  |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | My gosh ct, you really cannot believe that, CAN YOU? With The requirements that they put on tournament directors, Do you think they can trust them to deal with dead and alive fish in the manner in which the state dictates? |
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| I'm just saying that I don't believe the law will be "bent" just because it is a tourney. Have they overlooked laws for anything else?
The letter of the law says dead at shoreline, not dead on shoreline except for tournaments. Nor does it allow for the fish to be alive, "as long as you turn it over to some official".
Everyone is just ASSuming that, but has anyone actually asked the DNR for that exception.
I am pro-tourney, and have admittantly not read the all of the law, just asking for clarity and not a bunch of assumptions. |
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Location: Menasha, WI | ct, The NRB's VHS rules allow for exceptions to the "dead at the shoreline" rule with "with the prior written approval of the department, where the department has determined that the proposed activity will not allow Viral Hemorrhagic Septicemia virus to be transported to other waters." I'm sure that when live weigh-in permits are granted the 'prior written approval' will be incorporated into the permit. |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | ct -
The rule say you can not leave the bank or shore with fish still in water. Not that they have to be dead when you reach the shore. I don't see the problem with this unless the weigh in is at a remote location. Take a look at the link on the dnr web page that discusses the emergency rules. They have a picture of a guy taking fish out of his livewell and putting them in a cooler after he has loaded his boat onto the trailer - most tournaments have their weigh in closer to the water than the guy in this picture.
http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/vhs/vhs_rules.html
Edited by Brad B 1/29/2008 3:25 PM
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| Here is what was presented to the legislature and is not yet on the agenda. These rules have been modified from the previous postings many of the items that were of concern were changed but there are still alot of alarming issues in this regulation.
One that I brought up a concern on and has been changed was regarding the DNR's authority to board a vessel. It has been re-worded see 6e and 6f. Also the 3 fish limit in the warm months has been reworded also.
Are there others that concern you?
Meeting minutes
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/nrboard/2008/January/01-08-BOA.pdf
Revised sent to legislature for approval:
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/fish/fishingtournaments/FH-22-06_1-25-08...
It's a long road but fate is on our side as there is a lake at the end!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| Had some time to kill today so thought I'd look up the status of the tourney regs.
Heres a video of the Nov19 meeting, (scroll down to 11.19.08) that got tabled to the next legislative session in Jan. It's long but interesting to hear the way some people think!
http://wisconsineye.org/wisEye_programming/ARCHIVES-committees.html
Good Luck
Tyee |
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