|
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | I remember my first trip to Lake Erie in 1979 with my wife Debbie. We went down to see my Ma and my step dad. It was not even a year since my real dads death and Ma had some stuff she wanted me to have of dads that she had kept. While we were there me and my step dad took his old Lyman wooden boat out to the West Sister island and casted these new lures called Hot-N-tot's and limited out on walleyes.
Then again in the spring of 86 we took a trip down and we took home three 3 man limits in as many days casting Gold Nuggets and crawlers near the Coolie (spelling?) Canal, out from the cooling towers in 7 feet of water. Then came the summers of 1988 and 89 on Saginaw bay, when 3 and 4 man limits by 10:30 was the norm. But I'm here to tell you that all those great trips and those particular fisheries pale in comparison to what's happening right now on the Saginaw Bay.
The fishing is so good in fact I've had to apologize to my clients the last 3 trips for limiting out so early in the trip. Today we set lines at 8:00am and were done at 9:30am. I feel kinda weird apologizing actually, as what could be better then limiting out. I've been asked by a few clients if we could catch and release after that, but I refuse to continue to catch and possibly injure or kill any fish that may get stressed or gilled with a hook for the sake of just catching them. Give me a few honest answers about how you might feel if your trip was cut short because of good fishing. My rule is 5 hours or limit and 7 hours or limit (witch I actually thought I'd never use, at least not as fast as I have been), so refunding any portion of the charter fee is not done.
Edited by walleye express 7/5/2008 12:27 PM
Attachments
----------------
 IM001713.JPG (99KB - 137 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1040
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Well, to me I wouldn't care if I caught the limit and had to come in. It would stink having to come in with fishing so good but your rule of not fishing once the limit is full is a respectable rule.
For me, if I were a client Dan, seeing you've been so successful as of late and catching limits as fast as you have, maybe just mention these things to your clients that fishing has been extraordinarily good with a very good chance of limiting out in a couple hours so there aware of it. So instead of your clients getting on the boat, catching a ton of fish, getting a limit by 9:30 and then all of sudden springing on them that were done, that could lead to some being pretty upset. Some might think of it as they have a day to fish, they paid for the time to fish and your going in early, even though you rule is a respectable one.
Hope this helps and keep up the good fishing! |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Thanks TJ. Honest answers is what I wanted. One thing I learned a long time ago though is not to hype what the catch might be, rather I feel good about the chances or not. Making anybody feel like we are going to limit out and then do not is worse then geting them ready for a short day. People who understand what fishing is all about understand a bad day and why it happens. People who don't fish very much or at all ( a lot of my clientell) don't understand you telling them about the limits you took yesterday and the skunk you took today with them in the boat.  
Edited by walleye express 7/5/2008 12:57 PM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | I think being up front with them would be in your best interest. Would you allow them to catch fish and pick and choose which ones to keep. The deep hooked ones go in the box, the gill hooked ones go in the box. And when it full they are done? it would extend there time to maybe the max, and everyone stays happy. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | What happens if I'm being picky keeping only fish I think are hurt, then they shut off at 10:00am and we end up with 3 in the box after throwing 12 other healthy keepers back? To me catching and releasing any legal or sub-legal summer warm water fish is very stressful on the fish. Thats why I really hate catching those little rascles as well and have since stopped using my spoon sliders over the cranks since the little undersized ones have now shown interest in them.
Edited by walleye express 7/5/2008 1:17 PM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Dan, I hear you, but hear me, be upfront with them. Tell them It may be possible to limit in a hour or we can sort and may not limit. But be upfront. However, it sounds like you would preferr to not catch them and release, and I respect your decision. Either way it is your choice. It may be a smart decision to ask the charter what they want. It may be more important to them to catch more, Or they may enjoy limiting out. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 538
| Dan,
I am with Stacker on this one.
Also, You are one of the few who would stop fishing after your limit.
I believe that in Wisc. we are required to stop fishng for the species when we have our limit. Of course, folks might say they are after whitle bass or the like. I appreciate your point about stressing the fish as the water warms up. Do you subscribe to no after limit fishing when the water is cooler as well?
Take care,
Jim O |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Most of my cold water fishing is done on the rivers or on the ice. If we limit on the ice, yes, the day is over and we pack it up and leave. The river is a different deal. Even though I've limited quit often on the river with clients, never have we done so in such short order, so nobody (I think) feels shorted. I have often in the past fished the river Spring and fall and released eveything I caught that was not hurt by the experience. |
|
| |
|
| The day might end up short, but in the end, they will enjoy those fish long after the boat is at the dock. Most clients would be thrilled to get a limit. Explain to the client what's happening when the fish are "on". IMO, take the limit of fish when you can. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1406
| Dan, great topic! Personally I would want to know everything about the bite before going out. Are we going after limits or trophy fish, I prefer to catch a few for the table and like to select my own rods when trolling so you wouldn't have to worry about going in early if I was on your boat as I would never have MY limit! I would solicit any information you have to offer about alternate spots, fish migration and the tactics used at different times of the year. It's pretty easy to get a limit these days in the month of June if that is what your after. Let your clients know that and they will be more appreciative of your service. Paying for only an hour on the water is a rip no matter how the fish are biting.
Good Luck
Tyee |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | I'm thinking the best thing to do might be to reduce the number of trolling rods I have out from 8 to just 4. The shear time it takes in the whole hooking, landing, netting and re-rigging process would at least stretch the process out some and still keep everybody happy and busy. The doubles and triples we've been catching are fun, but fill the box post haste. This would also allow me the time to get a feel for just how productive the day is going to be. Allowing me to put out more rods if need be. I know one thing. I'll never be jealous of Lake Erie again.
Edited by walleye express 7/6/2008 7:16 AM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Today's economics and your personal sporting ethics make it a tough call. Making sure that your clients are happy and want to come back make it even more difficult. As a guide, I tell my clients that I will give them a minimum of 8 hours for a full day and a minimum of 4 hours for a 1/2 a day. It is my belief that getting your quota is only a part of the experience. Looking at the pictures you submitted it appears that this was a family gathering where people wanted to spend quality time together pursuing a passion. The families may have waited a long time for this opportunity to be together. You can also take this great opportunity to teach or show different areas to help fill the time. Heck, a lot of younger and older clients just like a boat ride on a beautiful day.
The fish in your picture look like the same cookie cutter year class that I experienced when I was there doing an article last year. They are fun to catch and appeared easy to find. I would propose that you have a conversation with your clients when you are one person short of a limit and give them a chose. Say, we can stay here and probably fill in 10 minutes or pull up take a drive to a another spot for big/bigger fish. There is no guarantees except that your trip will be extended. It's their call. In all fairness to Captain Dan, he is discussing a business approach that s very common on the Great lakes. Most charter captains on Erie that I am familiar with have the same approach. They tell clients in their brochures and on their web pages that the trip lasts a certain amount of time or until they fill out. It is a common practice but it is one reason why I decline invitations when friends ask me to join them on these types of trips. I, like some of your clients that may complain, are there for the experience and the limit of fish is secondary. But again, I know others who boast that hey chartered a boat and where back to port in 3 hours with a limit. Dam if you do and dam if you do not! But as Tyee says, the best scenario is open dialogue with the clients. They have hired you for a service. They are the boss for the day, and your job is to make them happy. Repeat customers sustain your business and bad word of mouth experiences spread fast. Discuss your and their expectations before leaving the dock. You may burn an extra $40 in gas during the trip but my experience is that you will make up for that in tips and repeat business because they knew your intentions. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 6
| I believe that you are doing the right approach. However here on Erie alot of our Charters will tell the clients that if we limit out early, if they would be interrested in fishing for another species to fill out their time limit. (ex) perch,walleye,whitebass,smallmouth. Just my 2 cents worth. I do believe you are doing the right thing by not continuing to fish for the walleye after catching the limit. We all know they are to great of a resource to only belly up later. Thank You. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Good Poop Dennis.
And the Bigger fish idea is a good one, but not so much this year. We've had a few local and national tournaments already this year on the Bay and 5 pounders gets you the trophey and the money. What we would call "BIGGER FISH" (IMV) are either in the deepest regions of Lake Huron or feeding exclusively at night on the Bay. These 17 to 19 inch cookie cutters are the very biggest part of our biomass of fish, are everywhere and in all depths. I could still go through the motions of rigging and fishing for bigger fish, but the only real extra time expended would be in the location move with the same speedy cookie cutter results I'm afraid.
I've been in this guiding/chartering business for over 24 years. I'm always surprised by the clients that limit out (after a full day) and never come back. And the ones that get skunked, leave a big tip and come back year after year. Its hard enough to meet all the guiding/chartering expenses year after year and stay in this business. Adding all the new laws and hoops from Home Land Security, mine this year were $3,200.00 before I even had a charter on the books. The guys on Erie running two trips a day from April to September (in some cases November) have it a lot easier then us on the bay running 25 to 30 trips per season if we're lucky. Ironically, it would be sad to spoil what business I have because the fishing was to good. 
Edited by walleye express 7/6/2008 9:14 AM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | lomssl - 7/6/2008 9:35 AM
I believe that you are doing the right approach. However here on Erie alot of our Charters will tell the clients that if we limit out early, if they would be interrested in fishing for another species to fill out their time limit. (ex) perch,walleye,whitebass,smallmouth. Just my 2 cents worth. I do believe you are doing the right thing by not continuing to fish for the walleye after catching the limit. We all know they are to great of a resource to only belly up later. Thank You. ;)
There really isn't that many options after you limit out. As you can imagine, I'm pretty much geared up for strickly walleye trolling and not much else. We do have white bass and a few other species of course, but none you could pattern or I could get to in my 25 footer to keep the catch strickly that specie. I used to do perch charters as well, but the perch are almost on the indangered specie list in the Bay now, so I don't bother. And sight seeing is not much to speak of on the Saginaw Bay as we have lost 40 inches of water over the years and you cannot get anywhere near the shorelines. At least in my boat. I do of course fillet and bag the fish right on the boat when we get back. That takes time and we do chew the fat and tell some jokes while I'm cleaning. I even offer to share a cold beer and a steak sandwitch at my favorite bar/grill on the way home if they want, and to continue to answer what ever fishing question they may have.
Edited by walleye express 7/6/2008 9:03 AM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I hear ya' Dan on the tips and the return business. I had two older gentlemen last year who did a day for muskies. I worked their tales off for 2 follows and no fish. I thought that they would be dismayed and never return. They ended up giving me a $100 tip because they said they learned more during the trip than they did with all previous guides during their 20 years of hiring guides. I actually ran after them as they were loading the car to tell them they made a mistake with their payment. I assumed they forgot how much of a deposit they gave me. We all laughed and they appear to be regulars now. I have had other experiences like you where the day was perfect and limits came easy. Maybe too easy! When people have an incorrect assumption that anyone can wet a line and get a limit they sometimes assume that they are ripped off some how. I see that your web site explains that the charter is for a certain amount of hours or when they limit out. This is good business. Yes, the costs of doing business keep rising. Unfortunately, the client expectations keep going up too. Like you, when someone books a trip with me, I have a thorough dialog with them on expectations and a forecast of what they can expect. The communication before hand and in the boat is vital to our existence. I believe that our jobs are entwined with a perception of how hard we worked for the client that day. Not sure if putting out fewer rods than they law mandates is a good idea either. Your clients may go away with the perception that you were just being lazy. Again. dam if you do or don't. We are in the people business and must meet their expectations and desires for the trip. Communication is vital.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Not sure if putting out fewer rods than they law mandates is a good idea either. Your clients may go away with the perception that you were just being lazy.
After re-thinking yesterdays trip, the 4 rod idea might not be the best. And it's not because I'd be worried about them thinking I was lazy. After putting out the two Mast type planer boards I use yesterday, I started setting 4 line off each side. It took me over an hour to get 4 lines set out on the starboard side of the boat. In fact we had 13 fish in the box before I could even get to the other side to set any lines on that side of the boat. I was constantly working in that corner and became a ball of sweat, until I made the decision to turn around and went against the waves to retrase our plotter course is when things cooled off for a bit.  |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | This morning I've decided on a plan. I'm taking a trip to Franks Great Outdoors this morning and buying 8 huge crankbaits. Don't know what type or brand yet, but they will be bigger then anything I've ever used before. They may even be Musky cranks, I don't know. One thing I've always done on my summer charters is reserve my own legal limit for counting mistakes we might make when moving the fish around in a cooler. One or two over the clients limit, yet under the total licensed legal limit protects me from an embarrasing ticket if it ever happened. My plan first is to ask the clients what they would like to do. If they want to stay out, I'll remove the cranks or gear that we're using when we've reached the clients legal limit and replace them with these giant lures. I've caught BIG walleyes on the Bay before that have had perch 8 inches long in their bellys. So our new mission will be to catch a trophy. I'm also going to file down the barbs on these lures in case the little guys get up the nerve to strike them. But I'm hoping nothing but the monsters or maybe a large PIKE will be interested. It may be a waste of time and be pretty boring for the remainder of the trip, but it will be more fair to my clients and less stressfull on any fish we catch on them in my view.
Edited by walleye express 7/7/2008 7:48 AM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Heres the BIG lures I picked up. Top one is 6 inches the bottom one 9 inches. Both are Muskie baits. Picked up 6 of each.
http://image.basspro.com/images/images2/200-000/251-958-97.jpg
http://image.basspro.com/images/images2/Lago/1415474_i-503539.jpg
Edited by walleye express 7/7/2008 9:19 AM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 3899
| I like the big bait idea. I also agree with Dennis on the full trip.
Maybe do what I do when I'm with the kids. #1, I don't put anything over 19" in the livewell. #2, if the bite is hot, I put fish in the livewell until we get to one less than each person's limit. The we C&R until we're ready to call it a ay. Then we'll put one more each in the livewell. If we can't finish the limit in 1/2 hour, then so be it. For us, it's not so much filling limits, as it is time together on the water.
Either way, let them know up front what they might be in for. They might just tell you that they want the full time, and if they end up short of a limit because they were C&R'ing, they are ok with that. Maybe 6 lines instead of 4? Again, letting them know why you are putting out less than the allowed will quash any feelings of not working hard. Some are there for the meat, some are there to learn and have a good time first, and the meat second. Only they can tell you what type client they are.
Good luck with this.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Shep.
I guess this thread is getting to long for reading every post. I will not purposely C&R during this time of year. Thats my own personal rule. I'm going to try this monster crank idea and see how it goes. I'll keep you all posted about how it works out.
Edited by walleye express 7/7/2008 3:24 PM
|
|
| |
|
| JUST TRY NOT TO RAPE THE RESOURSES. IN OTHER WORDS, DON'T BE A FISH HOG. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 794
Location: Elgin, Illinois | Dan,
I like the big crank idea. I have a few musky sized baits in good walleye colors that I have pulled on LBN. No luck, but I was only interested in that 12-13+ lb fish.
As an aside, I commend you on trying to walk the line between pure commercialism and respect for the resource. Whatever choices you ultimately make you are well inside the lines of ethical fishing in my opinion, no matter where you end up. |
|
| |
