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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Here is the hypothesis: A new national tournament series is staring up. Let’s call it WATS (Walleye Artificial Tournament Series): - The entry fee is $1,200 per event.
- The payout is 110%.
- The new and improved Walleye Insider magazine will cover this tournament series along with all other national tournaments.
- They will have 4 tournaments a year with a no entry fee championship tournament that pays $50,000 to the winner. They also pay down 25 spots.
- You can use any boat and motor.
- You will receive contingency monies from different lure/bait companies if you use their product(s) and cash a top ten check.
- The tournament series is sponsored primarily by bait/lure manufactures to promote their products.
Would you enter this kind of tournament? |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Live bait or no live bait would not affect my participation in an event. |
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Location: Berlin | If the founding fathers of walleye fishing knew this conversation was going on they would roll over in their graves. Would I do it for fun...sure. Would I put my hard earned cash on the line...NEVER. A tournament like this would eliminate too many presentations. Now on some bodies of water it would not make as much of a difference as on others. To be honest, it would all but eliminate the truest form of walleye fishing in my eyes, jig fishing. I am sure that some will argue the effectiveness of plastics but the worm can not be replaced. Some days yes, but on average the worm wins. Rigging will now be a thing of the past as well. You want to use all artificial all the time, go bass fishing. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Thats right Rich, that is not who WE ARE. Why do we need to follow. |
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| Taken from sunshines post:
"Pro's used various techniques from spinners on bottom bouncers to pitching jigs and vertical jigging to snap jigging and slow death rigs to casting crankbaits. The winner pitched Northland whistler jigs with 5" Berkley leeches and also used a 6" Powerworm. perry Good caught about six 8-plus pounders during practice. he pulled spinners on bottom bouncers to nab his big fish. They key, however, was tying the hooks closer together than usual so when he put on the Berkley PowerBait Power Nightcrawler, it would create a big wobble, a la the slow death presentation popularized by Parsons and fellow Team USA pro Keith Kavajecz. The fourth place finisher casted Rapala X-Raps as well as jigging 3" black shad Berkley Gulp! minnows and 3" pumpkinseed Berkley Gulp! fry."
So much for your jigging and rigging would be a thing of the past theory! |
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Location: Berlin | Guest,
Like I said in my post, it will not make as much of a difference on some bodies of water. On others it will make a huge difference. |
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Location: Berlin | stacker - 8/19/2008 12:54 PM
Thats right Rich, that is not who WE ARE. Why do we need to follow.
It looks to me like the closet door is starting to open for some in the walleye community. Next thing you know these freaks will want to start buying bass boats;) |
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| Rich, Which bodies of water are so difficult that you can not catch walleyes on artificials? |
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| There is not one body of water that could not produce walleyes on artificials. I have fished a lot of different systems and from what I have seen and learned, live bait on average out produces artificials. Now what I mean by artificials are soft plastics. Trolling will produce fish even in negative conditions. A gulp minnow on most systems will get spanked by a real minnow in negative conditions the majority of the time. I hate trolling and won't troll unless I absolutely have to. If I am in an all artificial tournament in tough bite conditions, I feel I would be forced to troll hence my view on this subject. |
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| Perry Good is sponsored by Berkley. Just think how much weight he would have pulled if he was using real worms... |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Well, After 6 days of voting on this unscientific poll the results are: - 24 anglers say they would fish a tournament like this.
- 10 anglers would decline to participate.
- And 21 fisherpeople indicate that the format structure would not be a determining factor in their decision to fish the tournament. As Jerry indicated: “Live bait or no live bait, it would not effect my participation in an event.”
I’ll assume that the 21 votes indicating indecisiveness could go either way. I’ll also assume that there are other aspects more important to them on how the tournament is structured or run that will makeup their mind. Is this a fair assumption? In other words, the use of artificials only would not deter their involvement. Is this a fair assumption? Now, put on your thinking caps. Take on the role of a new tournament organization. Would this idea be too risky? Or would they be wise to consider this new alternative if they had the financial support from a major player involved in the production of artificials? There are obviously those on this site that have a very strong opinion against this option. But would your opinions change if this was just one tournament series and the rest stayed the same? It’s another option. What harm would there be if it was tried? How about this idea? What would happen if a company like Berkley gave a $25,000 bonus to the winner that used their artificial baits only? You could still use live bait but the financial reward would be there if you decided to use their product only. Would this help? (For the record, I do not believe that the last idea is new or unique. If I recall correctly, I believe that incentives like this have been offered in the past.) |
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| Berkley did a $10,000 bonus if the fish were caught on Berkley baits a couple years ago. I know Tommy Skarlis won an extra $10k on the Wolf river that year for using artificials. |
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| How would you know if a guy used artificials? What if you used both? What if you didn't use any, but said you did when you won? What if you were using artificials, but not "Berkley's"? Too many "ifs".
IMHO, no matter what happens, if more money is not added to the pot, changing bait rules alone will not increase entries substantially. If money is added but only for the winner, that will not help either.
Sunshine, I guess it all depends what you are trying to accomplish. |
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Location: Rhinelander | Who were the founding fathers of Walleye Fishing? Seriously, just wondering who you mean. |
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | lol I'm glad I'm not in the grave-- yet! lol |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Steve: Sure would like to hear your take on artificial only tournaments. Please, pretty please!!
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Location: Berlin | sworrall - 8/25/2008 8:27 AM
Who were the founding fathers of Walleye Fishing? Seriously, just wondering who you mean.
Lol, just my sense of humor Steve. Don't take too many things I say seriously:) |
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| I believe the founding fathers of walleye fishing were using spears and not live bait.
Would that count as artificial? |
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | Well, I stuck my nose today where it didn't belong on the Muskie board so I'll get it stuck here too.
My vision of "artificial only" events is that it would limit the range of lakes/waters you would want an event on. And the time of the year as well. That said--based on "artificials" that are on the market now. Things most likely will get even better so that range could be much broader down the road.
My concern is that in many lakes, during the majority of the year, taking the WHOLE range of potential good walleye water into the mix, the catch rate would be quite poor if it was "artificial only". Granted---many lakes offer a good crankbait bite most of the time but not always. Structurely, many good lakes don't offer a good trolling scenario most of the time. And many lakes show a poor catch rate potential on even the best of "plasitics" for walleyes.
So--in the end, I think the "artificial only" events could hurt the "plastics" companies more than help them in many cases and likewise--the crankbait companies. More zeroes and small numbers don't make good headlines for the marketing departments of the "artificial only" companies to thrive on. In fact--the headlines could hurt more times than not--at this point of the evolution of the artificial walleye bait concept.
BUT! Canadian shield lakes year around and early spring/late fall river and reservoir events etc. can be great events to showcase "plastics"--no doubt.
My concluding thoughts on the subject? WALLYEYES ARE NOT BASS! To insure optimum consistency, you need to have both live and fake bait in the boat in MOST lakes at MOST times of the year. I DO think, if scheduled in the right place/water, at the right time of the year, "artificial only" events are just fine and a welcomed challenge, as well as an added form of promotion for the fake bait industry. Keep making it better and the range I speak of grows--maybe. WALLEYES ARE NOT BASS. I like/agree with the opinion from an earlier poster.....that says allow BOTH---and if the "artifcials" are that good--they will win--so leave things alone as is.
That's my opinion only. I could be wrong. Debate it if you want but I'm outta here on this now.
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| "I DO think, if scheduled in the right place/water, at the right time of the year, "artificial only" events are just fine and a welcomed challenge, as well as an added form of promotion for the fake bait industry."
Most people want everything to be perfect for a good bite now, and that still includes live bait. Look at the venues and the message boards. If some circuit picks a place that is a bad time, is usually chastised on some board.
I think the big difference maker in live bait vs artificial is trolling vs jigging. Casting cranks seems to be a lost art, pitching jigs and plastics takes confidence and patience the most trollers don't have.
If it's a perfect world and you pick the right place at the right time, I sincerly believe artificials can and will produce bigger fish time and time again. Just 2 cents.
As for the debate, it don't matter to me....I'll fish no matter what. I do enjoy fishing artificials, but I know there are times when live bait is a better way to go for numbers. |
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| Steve,
Your comment: "So--in the end, I think the "artificial only" events could hurt the "plastics" companies more than help them in many cases and likewise--the crankbait companies. More zeroes and small numbers don't make good headlines for the marketing departments of the "artificial only" companies to thrive on. In fact--the headlines could hurt more times than not--at this point of the evolution of the artificial walleye bait concept. "
That is a point I have not considered while following this post. That could preclude artificial bait companies from financially promoting an exclusive sponsorship of a tourney.
Unless it was a pro-am event, I do not see how they could even offer a big kicker bonus in a tourney. Unfortunately, it would be too easy to work around the rules for an unscrupulous angler.
Take care,
Jim O |
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | Just to insure my point/comment about companies being hurt in the end is taken in context--I say that only IF the "artifiical only" events are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Simply---we need to be careful when scheduling. In fact, like the Can-Am event did so very well, this "artificial only" concept CAN be a huge plus to those companies. In other words....not a blanket type statement. Anything but!
Would I like to see ALL of our future events "artifical only"? You bet---because if I didn't have to spend $300 a year on ice and drive countless miles for the best creek chubs or spend time getting bit by mosquitos while hand picking leeches--life would be much easier. So get with it! Somebody make a bait that doesn't need ice, doesn't need to be trapped and ALWAYS catches walleyes--everytime I find them!
In the meantime....there's a time and a place. |
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| a guest mentioned the spring tourney on the wolf that Tommy won $10,000 from Berkley for using artificials but he failed to mention that it was because he was using a small piece of plastic to help hold his live bait minnows on the hook better.... a very common thing to do on the wolf in the spring! |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Steve, Thanks for taking the time to write down your thoughts. Although I do not agree with everything you write, I respect your insight and opinion. Sights like this are great at allowing mature adults the ability to bounce ideas off each other. Sometimes you have to be thick skinned to ignore the juvenile outbursts but overall we can all share ideas and get opinions. And every so often, if we come here with an open mind, we learn new ideas and points of view. Thanks for participating. I hope we hear more from you. I'm starting to realize the possible marketing nightmare. I could use the 2008 FLW Tour event in Escanaba as an example. The bite was terrible this year. I can't imagine what the outcry would have been if we were not allowed to use bait. I can't imagine the bite being any worst but I do believe that everyone would have blamed the use of artificials for the slow bite instead of the other factors we encountered.
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Would you enter an artificial only tournament?