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| Just wondering if anyone heard the schedule for 2009 | |
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| I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. If the MWC can't get anough BIG DOLLAR sponsors to pony up the money to pay for the current FULLTIME director, the MWC is a dead on arrival for 2009. There is no way a smart person is going to run the MWC and not get Paid a fulltime wage and benefit package. This Wall street financial crisis is going to affect the "extra" money stream fast, hard and quick and the way the MWC is funded puts it right smack square on the chopping block of the slash and burn cost chopper accountants. | |
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Location: Manitowoc WI | well, so much for optimism  | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Can't possibly be that bad, can it? | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Steve:
The MWC is alive and well! In fact, I believe that you will be hearing of expanded duties/activities with the organization/ownership.
Someone appears to be venting with a vengeance on personnel. Don't ya' just love the one hit wonders? I'm sure now he/she will go after me because of this post. easy to do when they will not identify themselves. | |
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| Bad News Bob...Well that is quite a catchy name given the fact of the rumors you are trying to start. I agree sunshine he probably is one that is disgruntal at the MWC for some reason or another but hey thats his own beef i guess, I won't lose any sleep over it. I would have to say the MWC is alive and well!!
Bad News Bob.....that sounds like a musky lure or something. | |
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| I'm not going after anybody. I told you about the current financial realities the entire USA business world is going to be facing in the upcoming future. If you think the MWC is immune, you delude yourself into a state of false sense of security. For a company to fork over the same or increased sponsor money for such a tournament program with such a hard to define return on investment to sales ratio. The MWC sponsor money amounts, I believe, are on the reduction or chopping block as we speak. Any company who is predicting the same or greater sales for 2009 within the fishing industry and boating industry is in a state of complete complete financial buffoonery. When economies slump the first thing consumers cut is extra spending on goods they don't need of which includes boats and fishing equipment. This in turn causes reduction in sales for compaanies which in turn reduces advertising spending.
How many of you financial wizards predicted the PWT going down the tubes?
The reality is most if not all fishing related businesses will undergo a reduction in sales for 2009. If you were predicting your business postion for next year would you cut out or reduce sponsor money for a tournament circuit or start reducing personnel costs through layoffs?
Trust me folks, the sponsor money for tournament circuits gets chopped way before people lose their jobs in the core business. In business it is called running "lean and mean' without frilly expenses with hard to quantify results. Tournament sponsorship always has and will continue to be a frilly expense you do in good times BUT NEVER IN BAD TIMES. When people lose their jobs other people have to work harder to do the jobs left undone by the people who got the ax. If you think a business to going to reduce staff and overwork the remaining workers just to shout, "BUT WE STILL ARE MAJOR SPONSORS OF THE MWC," I've got news for you.
Whistle by the graveyard if you must, but if you think the PWT got chopped in 15 minutes over a business lunch you are sadly mistaken. Somebody just like you knew this was coming but refused to believe it could happen just like the poster is trying to present the position that all is well with the MWC.
All is NOT well financially with MWC and while I can't prove it, the numbers speak for themselves. Not one MWC tournament was gushing with an overflow of entries and somebody is going to have to justify why a company should have to pay the same or more sponsorship dollars next year with less than spectactular results and entries.
If I was a major sponsor of the MWC the conversation would go something like this:
"We can't pay the same sponsor amount as last year for what we thought was expectations not worth what we paid. This is what we are prepared to pay for 2009 MWC support and if that is not satisfactory to the MWC then I guess we will have to withdraw our financial support entirely. Times are tough if the sales department and this is just the way it is."
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| Bry - 9/17/2008 11:10 AM
Just wondering if anyone heard the schedule for 2009
The East is going to have 2 Erie events May in Sandusky and a summer one out of Erie PA. The other is going to be a michigan event,. A little birdy told me. They are wise to keep 2 of the events on Erie expecially where and when the bite is the best PC this year had the best turnout, they need to keep a spring Erie event to keep the entries rolling. | |
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| Bad News Bob
Your second post was much more intelligent!! Except the fact you still attack the MWC without having facts!! This is all purely speculation!!!! You bring up economic woes will have a effect. Hello....A majority of buisnesses across the U.S. are being hit hard but its the strong companies that make it through the tough times. I quite honestly I see the MWC as being strong! Maybe your venting on the 900 point drop the dow jones has had the last couple days but to rip on the MWC is ridiculious! Theres plenty of things to rip on out there if you want to vent....Brittney Spears must have done something stupid this week....Hulk Hogan is going through a divorce. Seriously though dude the economic situation is felt across the board and I'm hearing ya on times being tough out there.
Good Luck to ya b-n-b | |
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| Talk about credit woes.....you should see my Cabela's credit card...... | |
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Location: LaCrosse, WI | Times are tough, and sponsorship funding is likely to be reduced, but I see the MWC as one of the survivors that will be most likely to survive. They will probably continue to draw decent fields. Tough times will cause a lot of anglers to partner up to share expenses.
There are a ton of anglers that still want to fish tournaments, and team events may be the only way they can do it. Prize pools may not be as heavy or payouts may not go as deep, but I would fully expect the MWC to make it. If I were to fish tournaments next year, I would fully plan on doing team events especially with the travel involved.
I think gloom and doom is just the popular outlook right now, especially in an election year. I truly feel there's a lot of negativity about everything that's going on just so we can blame one party or another going into November. If you really care about tournament fishing, spend the time trying to come up with plausible solutions instead of starting unwarranted rumors. Also, post your name if you’re so sure of this so we know who to thank for giving us a glimpse into your crystal ball if your prediction becomes a reality.
Marshall Wuensch | |
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| I heard Brittney was making a come back! | |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | BNB.
Why do you seem to delight so in predicting doom and gloom as well as in other peoples misery and misfortune? Then revel in those facts, if and when they happen. I thought palm readers were supposed to give the poor superstitious slobs good news. I've surmised from bits and pieces you live near me and that we have crossed paths along the way. I think I have figured out just who you are from your first adopted post name, but do not wish to offend this guy by guessing if it isn't you/him. Come on bud. Don't we have enough bad news to contend with?
Edited by walleye express 9/18/2008 2:47 PM
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Location: Rhinelander | The MWC will be just fine for 2009. I made a rhyme! Is that over the line? If so, Bob can whine...or pine, I'm off to dine! | |
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| Let me guess sworrall your dining on swine?? | |
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| Bad News Bob
Your second post was much more intelligent!! Except the fact you still attack the MWC without having facts!! This is all purely speculation!!!! You bring up economic woes will have a effect. Hello....A majority of buisnesses across the U.S. are being hit hard but its the strong companies that make it through the tough times. I quite honestly I see the MWC as being strong! Maybe your venting on the 900 point drop the dow jones has had the last couple days but to rip on the MWC is ridiculious! Theres plenty of things to rip on out there if you want to vent....Brittney Spears must have done something stupid this week....Hulk Hogan is going through a divorce. Seriously though dude the economic situation is felt across the board and I'm hearing ya on times being tough out there.
Good Luck to ya b-n-b
What you guys fail to think about is my post is MY opinion as it relates to factual current events and the REAL business world of which all sponsored tournament circuits need to exist. I don't attack anybody anymore than you would have predicted the PWT going belly up. My opinion is NOT intended to be news, a rip nor did I intend it to be rumor, doom and gloom or anything between the two. 6 months ago you guys would have said the PWT was the strongest circuit with the most chance of surviving. Mercury pulled out and not one peep out of anybody thinking outside the rosey box about what could possibly happen down the road. The PWT goes belly up and we still have guys sitting around the campfire singing "Cumbaya" and "Michael Row the Boat ashore". Do you think for 1 itty bitty moment a failing organization is going to air their dirty sheets for a concerned public? It just doesn't happen like that in the real world folks.
My opinion on future events may come true or it may not. One factual thing is my opinion is my opinion. I may be missing a few pieces of the puzzle based on the secrecy of the holder of the unknown facts. With the current financial facts I do have, I can put together an pretty good scenario to make a good argument on what MAY happen.
One thing is a FACT. Corporations in the next year are going to scrutinize under a financial microscope EVERY expenditure made to see if this cost is contributing to a bottomline profit picture. The costs which are shakey or non essential WILL BE CHOPPED OUT OR REDUCED LIKE A CANCER.
I challenge ANYBODY on this board to give me a factual dollars and cents actual analysis on how a corporation can FACTUALLY measure the amount to the profit picture a corporate sponsor receives by writing a check to the MWC?
Don't bother to find it because it is NOT there. I have been in the advertising and promotiom business way to long. I know how these people think and when the promo money dries up because sales drop, the hard to quantify effectiveness of expenditures like sponsorships gets thrown out the window in a NEW YORK minute. If you doubt me go study why the PWT went belly up.
On a more understandable note, I just heard a couple months ago GM is chopping its sponsorships to all forms of performance motorcar racing including NASCAR. The GM honcho was quoted saying something along the lines of, "Why do we need to sponsore 12 cars when we could meet our needs with 8 especially with GM's falling sales picture." | |
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| Jayman - 9/18/2008 12:15 PM
Talk about credit woes.....you should see my Cabela's credit card...... :)
And we outfitters at Cabela's thank you......... | |
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Location: Berlin | Bob,
Can I just ask what the point of your posts are? I just don't see what you are trying to accomplish. The sky is blue, the grass is green and times are tough. I feel like I am watching CNN while reading your posts. I am not trying to knock you just wondering what your point is. Why is pointing out the MWC might not get the sponsor money they once had so important to you?? | |
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| I would give you an easy to understand explanation on why I want inform you on how the backroom tournament game works, but the moderator just wants all you "lil people" to talk about lesser important things.
Let me leave you with a question. and then I'm done educating you and many others.
IF a bunch of AIM tournament guys got together in January of 2008 to form another major pro circuit. Do you think they may have known the PWT would NOT be around in 2009? | |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | "... I'm done educating you and many others."
Oh please BNB, don't go away. The way you use poor grammar and botched punctuation puts an entirely new spin on everything 95% of us already know. I for one feel a lot smarter for having read your posts. Do you offer your latest works in a paperback? Then again, I do struggle with my A_B_C's from time to time. Perhaps you could get a big Hollywood type or other big name to read your work and have a "Book on CD" type of offering. You'll need somebody who really knows how things work that can relate to us "lil people". I can't make up my mind - do you think PeeWee Herman would be the best choice for this or should it be Elmer Fudd? | |
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Location: Rhinelander | 'I would give you an easy to understand explanation on why I want inform you on how the backroom tournament game works, but the moderator just wants all you "lil people" to talk about lesser important things.'
What a crock.
First, sure, the AIM folks knew things were dicey in the tournament world, but none...NOT ONE..of them was 'counting' on the PWT closing up this year. Up until the day the decision was made public, the PWT was selecting sites, talking to sponsors, and more for the next year.
Second, most of the Lund/Mercury 'reinvestment' goes directly to the angler, in the form of contingency money.Mike Gofron received about $34,000.00 from his second place finish a week back.
Third, your 'lessons', should you choose to continue to try to offer any, need to be better researched and contain less speculation offered as fact. If you have something of substance to offer, I'm sure we all will take it for what it's worth.
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| Sworral. Don't be so confused. I never once offered anything as FACT. This was my opinion based on my view of the situation. Because you and others don't happen to like it because I thought of writing about it first is irrelevant. I offered my opinion and if you took it as fact I don't consider that my problem. If you wanted to better inform your members, why didn't you offer up some questions such as I have suggested as opinion, Mr Sworral?
The problem with this website and Walleye Central is everybody doesn't want to risk offending somebody when somebody should be asking questions on why "bad stuff" is happening the way it does. The posters never question anything around here on fear somebody might get close to the REAL truth?????
I got REAL close to the truth and the truth stings doesn't it?
The real fact is you and I will never know the entire amount of the check Mercury wrote to the PWT and what ALL the money was REALLY used for do we? I'm not buying the "add-on" money pipe dream either.
QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS. Those nasty pointed Questions.
The questions remains is why did a group of guys get together to form another circuit if they didn't know the PWT was HISTORY. I bet a seagull flew in from Atlantic City and told all these guys. Come on. I wasn't born last night. Somebody is lying and I'm not buying it.
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| NOW....Sworral admits and adds a little tid bit of information previously unknown to the "lil people" that the "AIM folks knew things were dicey?"
Please continue on your explanation on how the AIM folks might have recieved this information by whom , when and by what means?
Who informed you "things" were dicey?
Gee, the more questions I ask the more I get someplace heh?
Let's peel the onion a little more? | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Get you facts straight, and perhaps your opinions may make more sense. As of the very day before the PWT announcement, the PWT staff was preparing straight forward for the 2009 season, including plans for the 2009 Can/Am; In fact, I was going to go north from Dryden and fish with JK for a couple days after he talked to potential Can/AM sponsors, and that trip was ON until the day of the announcement. No one's lying, you just can't stand the idea that there is no conspiracy in play here. Corporate made the decision and announcement in the manner they did for whatever reason, and...there it is.
The answer to your last question is more complicated than just who's running a circuit and who isn't.
Simply put, my understanding from speaking to the the founders of AIM:
AIM offers a completely different perspective of how the Tournaments should be presented to the public, how the sponsors and partners should benefit, and much much more. What I see is a complete paradigm shift in play.
' A little Dicey' as of a year ago by my interpretation..and the concept of AIM has been in play a LOT longer than that.
1) Gasoline prices soar, payouts do not
2) Industry cutbacks are discussed and rumored, some occur
3) Many Pro Anglers are not satisfied with current methodology and seek a future in which they have some modicum of participation.
4) A shift continues and strengthens as to how tournament fishing information and news ( promotion) is effectively delivered to the public, changing the landscape from what has been the standard.
There's alot more, pretty obvious stuff for those in your 'back room', and to most folks here.
Who are these 'lil people' you keep referring to?
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Location: LaCrosse, WI | If you really want to know why they formed the group, just ask some of the top guys. Pat Neu has been pretty vocal about the reasons he was involved. The main reason that most of those guys gave me was, that they felt that an angler owned circuit would be the most beneficial to the anglers. The other reason was that there just wasn't enough options.
There were really only two major pro/am circuits available. AIM would've made 3, but now we're back to two. Remember, this isn't bass fishing where you have hundreds of circuits to choose from, and several top tier circuits. We are very limited in the Walleye world, and these anglers/investors had the forsight to get a new option out there. Do you really think that most of these anglers would've fished the PWT if they knew it could go under half way through the year?
There has been talk of starting this kind of organization for years, and the time was just right for it. The major boom in tourney fishing is gone, but anglers still need somewhere to fish. This also serves as a check/balance system for the FLW.
The last thing the Walleye world needs, is to only have 1 major pro/am circuit out there. These two should balance each other nicely, and offer some options. Hate it all you want, but AIM is one of the two options and that's all you got. | |
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| I thought you were done "educating" us. That implies you don't have any more to say. I agree with Borring Bob on the other post. Why don't you register, log in, and post with your name so we all know who to laugh at when we see you on stage at all the tourneys you fish. Oh wait, you probably won't be on stage, if you fish like you educate. | |
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| Sworral said,
Simply put, my understanding from speaking to the the founders of AIM:
AIM offers a completely different perspective of how the Tournaments should be presented to the public, how the sponsors and partners should benefit, and much much more. What I see is a complete paradigm shift in play.
You said, things were a "little dicey in the tournaments world". Did I ask for a purpose in the founding of AIM? NO.
I asked for a real believable reason on why they would even think up a reason for founding another circuit. I have found if you ask an honest question from any corporate PR guy you will get an honest BIG FAT LIe or they won't answer the question and will give you a fancy explanation for something you didn't ask.
Mr Sworral,
I have found in my many years of corporate living the first reason to justify an action is NEVER the REAL REASON. The are real reasons and there are reasons you give others to make it look good. Get my drift? One reason is for show and the hidden reason is not for public viewing.
Let's go this way with the situation.
If the PWT never went out of business what impact would a 3rd AIM tournament option have? All it would serve is to reduce the corporate funding for the other 2 especially the PWT. No way in the world was the total amount of sponsor dollars going to increase to provide the same support for ALL 3 major circuits plus all the support for the smaller circuits. The honchos calling the PWT shots thought, " Gee , now we are going to lose dollars to a new circuit that should have be spent on the PWT Circuit?" All this did was to quicken already certain death of the PWT?"
We will never know now will we? | |
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| Boring Bob,
Why don't you register and log in?
For a man as outspoken as you are with all of these OPINIONS-
Do you have something to hide? Seems like you are more interested in slamming this site and others. SB | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Just becasue you don't understand the motivation behind forming AIM doesn't make it any less factual.
Your chronology is wrong, BNB, making nonsense out of your last post. No conspiracy at play, no hidden agendas.
And as was the original idea here, I'm betting the MWC will be just fine for next year. | |
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| Ok....lets look at the major players.
What is in the AIM deal for G Parsons and and Keith K?
Gee Batman, Gary and Keith don't fish the FLW? I wonder why?
WOW, by the loss of the PWT, Gary, Chase and Keith don't have a circuit to fish do they?
Would somebody do me a favor and give me a list of the guys who aren't/don't fish the FLW and only fished the belly-up PWT?
I wonder if Bass Pro has a problem with Keith, Gary and Chase fishing the FLW?
I just keep pealing the onion don't I guys? | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Nope, not the issue. How many times do you have to be told the PWT was in play and looking like it was ON for 2009 up until the very day they announced otherwise? Why would Tracker find it a negative if Gary or Keith fish an FLW, in fact I bet they'd be fine with it. THINK a little, BNB, what products get contingency dollars in the FLW? Are Tracker and Mercury on that list? And do Gary and Keith have time, considering the Next Bite commitment, to fish two full circuits, anyway? Would they have dropped out of the PWT next year and just fished AIM? Moot point now, I'd say.
What's in the AIM deal for any of the approximately 80 Pros already 'in' is obvious. It's also already been stated. | |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | "I just keep pealing the onion don't I guys?"
Something smells, but it's not onions.
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| wow I just asked a simple question and all this. I found out this past week the That th e Mwc will have the 2009 schedule out in two weeks. | |
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| Just becasue you don't understand the motivation behind forming AIM doesn't make it any less factual.
Your chronology is wrong, BNB, making nonsense out of your last post. No conspiracy at play, no hidden agendas.
Who told you?
Me NOT understand?????? LMAO. That is the first thing people say when you start questioning their lie. You have got to be kidding? One thing about tournament fishing I do understand is somebody wants the $$$$$$$. The easier the money the more they want it.
Nonsense?....re-read my posts with an open mind. Did I call your posts nonsense because I didn't agree with them? You Mr Sworral, are a PR guy's dream because you will believe what they say for all the wrong reasons.
Come on Mr Sworrel, I know you are real smart guy but please....this tournament stuff just isn't bred on a rock and form by itself. Somebody has an agenda and a self interest and that is the way tournament fishing HAS ALWAYS WORKED. There is no such a thing as socialism in tournament fishing. All tournament fisherman are not created equal nor are their intentions OR their reasons.
Let my opinion go on record saying this. A major hidden reason AIM was formed is certain members knew the PWT was going belly up. These guys can't/won't or are prohibited from fishing the FLW so they started up the AIM circuit. | |
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| Why 2 weeks? Is it because the sponsors contracts aren't signed yet because some finance honcho hasn't approved a dollar amount? That is the way it works boys and girls.
Well, we just wait and see won't we?
Maybe the MWC will get lucky and some former PWT sponsor money can be diverted to the MWC. One only knows. | |
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Location: Rhinelander | As I already have said, NOPE!
And yes, you, obviously do not understand much of what has been posted here, what motivations there are as to why the FLW, PWT, AIM, and MWC operate as they do, etc. You seem to look for some ulterior motives while ignoring the obvious.
JK wasn't even aware the PWT was closing up operations until the day before they announced.
No conspiracy here, sorry, there just isn't. AIM would be a reality whether the PWT was in play for '09 or not. No one is hiding anything as far as WalleyeFIRST can tell, and that's from a better informed position than yours, I'd venture, if you want more facts get on the phone and start calling those involved at the Corporate level, that's what we did..
The MWC schedule will be released when they a good and ready to release it, and there is no need to make up some more total BS as to why not today.
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| Guest - 9/22/2008 10:14 AM
Did I ask for a purpose in the founding of AIM? NO.
I asked for a real believable reason on why they would even think up a reason for founding another circuit.
Mr Sworral,
I have found in my many years of corporate living the first reason to justify an action is NEVER the REAL REASON. The are real reasons and there are reasons you give others to make it look good. Get my drift? One reason is for show and the hidden reason is not for public viewing.
Let's go this way with the situation.
If the PWT never went out of business what impact would a 3rd AIM tournament option have? All it would serve is to reduce the corporate funding for the other 2 especially the PWT. No way in the world was the total amount of sponsor dollars going to increase to provide the same support for ALL 3 major circuits plus all the support for the smaller circuits. The honchos calling the PWT shots thought, " Gee , now we are going to lose dollars to a new circuit that should have be spent on the PWT Circuit?" All this did was to quicken already certain death of the PWT?"
We will never know now will we?
You seem to have a pretty high opinion of yourself. You sit here and spew your pooh about asking the right questions, but then don't ask the right questions yourself. Goes to credibility. Steve gave you the reason why a 3rd circuit was forming, because that was the right thing to ask, but you failed to ask it. Also, instead of try to "educate" us, why don't you educate yourself, and ask not only the right questions, but of the right people. Talk to Scott M, and Pat Neu, and Keith K, and others instrumental in forming this new circuit. They are the ones who will verify the reasons for it. It certainly was note started with the hopes, or the knowledge, that the PWT was going to end.
You make it seem like all the sponsorship dollars are coming from the fishing industry alone. If that were the case, your doom and gloom rants may be true. But if AIM is smart, and I believe they are, they will seek out sponsorship outside the industry. Lots of dollars out there to be had, if one looks in the right places.
That said, your opinions don't hold much weight. get the facts, ma'am. Just the facts. BTW, are you so jaded because your big corporate job was eliminated? | |
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| Yup...just because the PWT TOLD YOU everything was" hunky dory" doesn't mean I have to believe it. Fannie and Freddie, Bear Stearn , AIG, Merrill Lynch and LEhman Brothers were all "hunky dory" too and did you believe their lies too?
Start asking questions when money is involved and when players are positioning. They aren't doing it to be nice or social and they will never tell you the real reason.
ALL is NEVER as IT SEEMS when MONEY is INVOLVED in fishing tournaments.
THIS IS FACT.
yup......2 weeks till the MWC schedule is out...yes siree Bob...I will gladly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today.
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| I bet BNB invested heavily in all those he mentioned above. hehehe
Of course, it is all about money. No where did ayone mention tournaments as being a social or just a nice thing to do for the anglers. It is, and has always been about money.
As for the MWC, when did they announce their schedule last year?
Again, why do you continue to post your drivel on here, without any facts at all? You know nothing, so until you do, don't post your crap, and just say you're posting your opinion. Cuz' you know what they all say about opinions. and you seem to have a big one.
Until till you tyake your skirt off, and log in, I say we should all just ignore you.
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Location: Rhinelander | Shep, ditto. | |
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| I think Bad news Bob brings up some good questions worth asking, some pieces of the puzzle seem awefully convienent from a timing stand point. I also think his points could be made with a bit more tact, but hey I've been accused of not playing nice with others also.
One number I've read here is 80....80 fishermen are involved, yet so little has been said about it. The initial number I heard was 50 investors. There does seem to be some "secrecy" to AIM. Then again when the Super Pro's were formed I questioned if it would become the "Good Ole' Boy's network". One has to ask the question...
2ndly, "Talk to Scott M, and Pat Neu, and Keith K, and others instrumental in forming this new circuit. " I kind of wonder why? Why would there be a need to create new circuit? Unless.....Unless the fishermen knew the PWT was on it's way out. Or perhaps the fishermen were not happy with the way the PWT was being ran? I have heard 1st hand and 2nd hand rumors of the latter. More so questioning the dollars involved and the sponsorship money involved.
One does have to wonder, the PWT DID fold and AIM seems to still be a mystery to the outsider.....So I will sit back and read with wonder and can only hope the questions will be answered.
Keep asking Bob.....
Edited by Jayman 9/22/2008 11:35 AM
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| You seem to have a pretty high opinion of yourself. You sit here and spew your pooh about asking the right questions, but then don't ask the right questions yourself. Goes to credibility. Steve gave you the reason why a 3rd circuit was forming, because that was the right thing to ask, but you failed to ask it. Also, instead of try to "educate" us, why don't you educate yourself, and ask not only the right questions, but of the right people. Talk to Scott M, and Pat Neu, and Keith K, and others instrumental in forming this new circuit. They are the ones who will verify the reasons for it. It certainly was note started with the hopes, or the knowledge, that the PWT was going to end.
You make it seem like all the sponsorship dollars are coming from the fishing industry alone. If that were the case, your doom and gloom rants may be true. But if AIM is smart, and I believe they are, they will seek out sponsorship outside the industry. Lots of dollars out there to be had, if one looks in the right places.
That said, your opinions don't hold much weight. get the facts, ma'am. Just the facts. BTW, are you so jaded because your big corporate job was eliminated?
So according To Sworral and you , Keith and Gary never knew the PWT was going under? If the PWT would have survived Keith and Gary would fish 2 circuits being the AIM and the PWT???? I'm NOT buying that for 1 micro second.
Another big fat PR lie.
Keith and Gary only fished the PWT and ONLY THE PWT. Why would they create another circuit to fish including the PWT if they never fished 2 circuits to begin with even with the FLW floating around????
Your argument and reasoning just doesn't make any sense to a normal person.
The fact is Gary and Keith can't fish the FLW due to a corporate sponsor telling them not too. If that isn't true why didn't they fish the FLW AND THE PWT???
BEcause they were too busy fishing the PWT, but not so busy they couldn't fish the AIM and The PWT?
Something doesn't add up here.
One thing is FACT, Keith and Gary won't be fishing the FLW and if the AIM thing doesn't fly, they will be grounded. If they were allowed to fish the FLW they would have already done it.
The last people I would ever ask is the source. People always lie to cover up their real intentions.
If you think the PWT didn't cultivate all the non fishing money for all those years, I got REAL news for you. With the dry up of all the "stupid" ad money, non fishing money to a fishing cause will be little or none. Why would Bayer Aspirin sponsor AIM?
Why would a corporate sponsor even look at sponsoring AIM? They wouldn't even know who is in charge and who is speaking with authority. SO many Chiefs and not enough Indians.
So a bunch or tournament guys get together and throw some money in a pot? Not one of these guys has ever run a tournament circuit. Why didn't they hire Jimmy Kalkouflin? Do you know why? Maybe It was because Scott Matheson came at a cheaper price tag and even then Scott has never run a BIG BUCK circuit or has any experience getting big buck sponsor dollars.
Do these guys really think that sponsors are going to write big checks because the blue blood tournament guys said, "Well here we are, come write your checks"
Lots of questions guys...tons of questions and I'm not hearing anything remotely believable.
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| To Jayman,
You are on the right track brother ...keep asking questions!
Just getting Sworral to admit that "AIM knew things were dicey" is a major step to knowing the reason things happened the way they did.
I never said I had all the pieces but like a good bird dog, I'm "making game" and am close to pointing the covey.
Plus, there are some people who know I'm not far from the real truth.
Not one person wants to admit they got duped into believeing lies.
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| Perhaps the anglers are/were not happy with either the PWT or the FLW. Perhaps they felt that a circuit formed by and for the anglers would be better for them.
Big difference in you and this bad news boob, Jayman? While you may be wrong most of the time, at least you are man enough to log in so everyone knows who they are mad at! hehehe On the other hand, Bad News Boob ain't got the balls to do that.
Why ask here why AIM was formed, or why the MWC schedule isn't out yet. If you don't know the guys involved, I will gladly introduce you to some of them. I'm sure they will be glad to talk to you.
Log in, Bob. It might go a long way in revealing your motives here. But then again, it may be that you are just that. Bad News. | |
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| As I already have said, NOPE!
And yes, you, obviously do not understand much of what has been posted here, what motivations there are as to why the FLW, PWT, AIM, and MWC operate as they do, etc. You seem to look for some ulterior motives while ignoring the obvious.
JK wasn't even aware the PWT was closing up operations until the day before they announced.
No conspiracy here, sorry, there just isn't. AIM would be a reality whether the PWT was in play for '09 or not. No one is hiding anything as far as WalleyeFIRST can tell, and that's from a better informed position than yours, I'd venture, if you want more facts get on the phone and start calling those involved at the Corporate level, that's what we did..
The MWC schedule will be released when they a good and ready to release it, and there is no need to make up some more total BS as to why not today.
Is that what JK told you? Come in Guy, everybody with half a brain should be able to tell if their job is safe. Do you really think JK is going to tell you he knew his job was in jeopardy and have everybody believe he hung around too long? NO, everybody that loses a job like that wants you to believe he was a victim with the blame put on the " upper honchos" It's human nature to get the blame off your back when you lose a job.
The reason Walleye First can't tell is because you are believing the lies without logical questioning.
You accuse me of ignoring the obvious? Ok, I accept that because that is your opinion. But if I am even partially correct in my perception it means you BOUGHT THEIR LIES 100%. The obvious is NOT what somebody tells me because people lie Mr Sworral. People will lie to your face to their own best interests and to save face.
Calling up a PR department and asking for the truth is akin to calling the devil and asking for God. Do you you think a PR department is going to tell you the truth if it embarasses the dog stuffings out of them? That won't happen my friend.
I have buddy who was Head of Public Relations for the GM Truck Plant in Fort Wayne, IN. He was PR pro and he always told me, "A PR job is always downplaying the negative by any means necessary and over promoting the positive by any means necessery. Never tell the public the truth."
As I said before, you never announce tournament dates until you have your revenue contracts signed and in writing with dollar amounts.
Go ask KAZ if you doubt it
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| Guest - 9/22/2008 12:08 PM
I have buddy who was Head of Public Relations for the GM Truck Plant in Fort Wayne, IN.
Oooh. That says it all, doesn't it. I have a buddy, who has a mother-in-law, that could kick your buddy's PR butt!
you never announce tournament dates until you have your revenue contracts signed and in writing with dollar amounts.
And this is new? Certainly not news worthy.
Edited by Shep 9/22/2008 12:22 PM
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| Well....it is obvious somebody didn't know about how the game is played or they wouldn't have asked the question about why the dates weren't announced yet.
Just because you know how the game is played doesn't make it any less news worthy. | |
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| Bad News BOb - 9/22/2008 12:25 PM
Well....it is obvious somebody didn't know about how the game is played or they wouldn't have asked the question about why the dates weren't announced yet.
Just because you know how the game is played doesn't make it any less news worthy.
"Just wondering if anyone heard the schedule for 2009"
He didn't ask WHY the schedule wasn't out. How do you infer that he doesn't know how the game is played from his question?
And to answer my own question, the 2008 schedule was realeased on July 25th of 2007. And Sept 6th in 2006 for the 2007 schedule. It appears there is no set date for the schedules to be released. Wow.
Is the FLW schedule out yet? Why not? How about the MWS? PMTT? WMT? IAT? hehehe
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Location: Berlin | Again, why do you care?? Why are you getting so worked up over this? I guess this whole situation is pretty black and white. Am I missing something? These guys are not dumb. It is their futures and families on the line. Frankly, it is none of your business. Fish or don't fish. One thing is for sure, you are a heart attack canidate if something like this gets you worked up. Take a deep breath, drink a beer and relax. I can't imagine getting you started on politics. You do have me curious as to your identity. You wanted us to ask questions, I am going to start there. Who are you? | |
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| Dear Billy Bob
You attack everything without knowing any facts you admit it yourself in one of your posts. I see your back speculating about the MWC again why wait two weeks to release the schedule.... well as you say Gee batman... the championship is in two weeks and i bet theres a little bit of preperation and focus for that event. When they release the schedule everything has to be in place so they are not changing launches/weigh-in areas. There is alot of coordinating to be done. So releasing the schedule after the 2008 season is complete would only make sense. Could you explain to me why your so disgruntal?? Do you feel you got burned by one of the circuits, people, stock market?? Do you argue this much with your wife?? If you do I'm glad i wasn't your child because I wouldn't have been the quality of fisherman that I am today without my father!!!!!!!!!!
Sincerely yours......Shore Fisherman | |
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| BNB, how do you manage drag yourself out of bed in the morning? Is there anything out there that you find that has positive future? | |
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| BNB, how do you manage drag yourself out of bed in the morning? Is there anything out there that you find that has positive future?
Good question. I do find something VERY positive. In January we will have a new president by the name of John Sidney McCain. Other than that, there is not much happening positve in the world as we speak. Wish I could give you a rosier picture but I'd be lying to you. The truth is sometimes not what we want to hear. I regret that too. | |
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Location: Berlin | I am glad that you took it upon yourself to be the bearer of bad news. You have opened my eyes so much I have many other questions for you. I am still young and am seriously thinking about starting my own business building homes in the 150k-350k range. From everyone I have been talking to, the realestate market is BOOMING in our area but I would like to talk with you just in case you have some inside info like you have with AIM. Please IM me with your contact info so we can talk.
BTW, what a waste of my 1000 post. I had big plans for it that of course involved Jerry...I guess I will have to save it for post 2000:(
Edited by Rich S 9/22/2008 1:36 PM
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| Guest - 9/22/2008 1:00 PM
Instead, I gave him the reason why.
They all are waiting on dollar amounts which may or may not happen. I'm betting on NOT happening.
Why did you give him the reason why? You chide Steve Worrall for giving you a reason you didn't ask for. So why is acceptable for you to give your opinion that was not asked for.
As for the tourneys next year? You bet not. It actually sounds like you are hoping not. Either way, I bet the MWC, FLW League and Tour, the MWS, and many others will have events scheduled, and with good sponsors on board.
BTW, who are you?
Edited by Shep 9/22/2008 1:57 PM
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| Guest, take a chill pill the economy isn;t as bad as the media folks are telling you. Media spreads news and 99% of that is bullcrap from a so-called "expert" looking at eronious indicators. Throw the media under the bus once and you wont have 300 point slides in the market like today. Gold won't rise 40 dollars a barrel and please tell my why oil swung 25 bucks a barrel. It sure isn't lack of production or consumption!
Good Luck
Tyee
By the way, I am forecasting double digit growth for 2009 and my company! | |
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Location: Chicago IL. | I knew it. I knew it I knew it!!!!!!!! BNB is a republican. I was wondering how long it was going to take for politics to come into it. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Jayman - 9/22/2008 11:30 AM
I think Bad news Bob brings up some good questions worth asking, some pieces of the puzzle seem awefully convienent from a timing stand point. I also think his points could be made with a bit more tact, but hey I've been accused of not playing nice with others also.
One number I've read here is 80....80 fishermen are involved, yet so little has been said about it. The initial number I heard was 50 investors. There does seem to be some "secrecy" to AIM. Then again when the Super Pro's were formed I questioned if it would become the "Good Ole' Boy's network". One has to ask the question...
2ndly, "Talk to Scott M, and Pat Neu, and Keith K, and others instrumental in forming this new circuit. " I kind of wonder why? Why would there be a need to create new circuit? Unless.....Unless the fishermen knew the PWT was on it's way out. Or perhaps the fishermen were not happy with the way the PWT was being ran? I have heard 1st hand and 2nd hand rumors of the latter. More so questioning the dollars involved and the sponsorship money involved.
One does have to wonder, the PWT DID fold and AIM seems to still be a mystery to the outsider.....So I will sit back and read with wonder and can only hope the questions will be answered.
Keep asking Bob.....
Jayman, I am amazed you don't pretty well know by osmosis the answers to some of your questions. I'll do my best to answer, but Bob...well it's folks like Bob are the reason why 'National Enquirer' sells so well.
As to AIM, I suggest if you have questions about the organization, you should call Scott and talk with him. It is possible the reason 'outsiders' have not heard much about AIM except what has been published to date is: Drum Roll....
They are not yet ready and willing to provide more information than is now available. There's nothing new with this sort of thing; new companies and organizations offer tidbits to the public in the form of press releases, interviews, and the like as the organization's overall program firms up and full blown out-in-the-public operations begin. APPROXIMATELY 80 was my statement, so let's not take it any further than that. If it's that approx. number ( I think Keith said 77 in his statement onstage) and it's Pro Walleye Angling, that can hardly be a 'good old boy's' network, it's simply too many anglers. When they are ready I'll wager information about how one becomes involved will be forthcoming! I'll also wager BNB doesn't join, but that is just a guess.
AIM's goals speak to Sponsors, Pros, and the paradigm shift I mentioned before, somehow Bob missed that completely. AIM will be about the Pros and about Professional Walleye Angling., and even more importantly, those who enjoy following the sport. If it's about the Pros, I guarantee, it'll be about the Sponsors. The entire promotional effort will be about AIM, Pros, and Sponsors. Sure, this is a bold and 'think out of the box' move on the part of the Pros, and I believe it's going to work.
What's the point of 'wondering' up a conspiracy or some grand scheme, AIM is what it is, and was going to happen no matter what. There was a comment you may need to pick up in that stage presentation Keith did..listen for that PWT acronym in there. | |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | OK OK < HOLD ON HERE!!!!!!!!! WHO IS THIS BAD NEWS BOB GUY? IVE BEEN GONE FOR A FEW DAYS AND THIS GUY COMES IN AND STIRS THE POT BETTER THAN I COULD EVER DREAM OF? WHAT GIVES? politics... dont get me started.. bad news might be a republican as anyone who thinks john mcain is the second comming must be , but he cant be a true conservitive thinker.. so id say moderate all the way.. another point .. the MWC is not going belly up!! ya know why? because the teams that enter provide the operating capital... 150 boats times what 800.00 /boat = 120,000$$$$$ at an 80% payout leaves 20% for tournament expenses 20 % of 120 thousand dollars is what boys? 24,000 in CASH TO RUN A SINGLE EVENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT EVEN A FULL FIELD...!!!!!!! BAD NEWS BOB BRINGS UPS SOME GOOD QUESTIONS. HE MAKES SOME GOOD POINTS.. AS FOR A.I.M. BE THANKFULL THERE IS ANOTHER OPTION FOR THE GUYS TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING FISHING.. NOW THAT THE PWT IS GONE... HOSTLE TAKE OVER OR NOT!!!! I REMEMBER ANOTHER BOB THAT WAS A PIONEER PARTAINING TO THE MWC!!!!!!!! ANOTHER BOB THAT COULD KEEP THE THING WORKING JUST FINE!!!!!!!!!!!! THE SPONSORS ARENT KEEPING THESE TOURNAMENTS AFLOAT!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS THE ANGLERS THAT FISH THE EVENTS!!!!!!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!! ITS ASHAME BOB BLURTS OUT HIS OPINIONS ABOUT SOMETHINGS WITH OUT ALL THE INFORMATION! ON THE OTHER HAND HE DOES KNOW A FEW THINGS THAT SOME OF US<<< HECK MOST OF US MAY NOT KNOW... I DID OBSERVE ONE THING. ITS BEEN BRAUGHT UP BEFORE ON THIS SIGHT BY MANY THAT THEY ARE AFRAID TO SPEAK UP BECAUSE OF THE POUNDING THEY WILL GET BY THE WALLEYES FIRST REGULARS !!!!!!!! THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE... SOME HERE WANT TO MAKE A POINT THAT BOB IS NOT WELCOME HERE... THATS BULL**** AND YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!!!!! YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT GUYS WITH A POLITICAL ADGENDA? LOOK IN THE MIRROR BOYS.. SHAME SHAME... THOUGH IF YOU PUT US ALL IN A ROOM AND A BEER IN OUR HANDS OR IN A BOAT WITH A FISHPOLE TOGATHER WE WOULD ALL BE BEST BUDS AND HAVE SO MUCH IN COMMON... ITS A SHAME THAT BEHIND THE COMPUTER WE THINK WE NEED TO CHOSE A SIDE.... INTERESTING THREAD THIS IS AND THANKS BOB FOR GIVING ME SOMETHING TO READ THAT INSPIRED SO MUCH THAUGHT AND REACTION FROM OTHERS... WAY BETTER THAN THE SAME OLD SAME OLD... BLA BLA BLA... SOME GOOD POINTS MADE BY ALL... GO BOB GO!!!!!! STIR THE POT MAKE THE BOYS THINK ! but still they like to jump on folks who dont leave there name... seems to take away some credibuility.. and maybe it does.. but there are ramifications in the tournament industry for those who dont conform in some cases... there are reasons people dont leave there two cents and sign there name... i dont blamb you if you are on the inside for not leaving your name.... those that do seem to always have to protect the status quo and defend there cercuits and employers if i may use the word.. the FLW is an employer so to speak for some... so was the PWT... for some... imagine you working for the school district as a teacher and trashing the teachers union and your employer ,,, how long would you last ... same with working for the police department in a major city and always pointing out controversial missmanagment or obstruction or coruption within ... how long would you last...???????? so bob (deep throat) doesnt sign his real name..(WHO CARES) so you take his thaughts and comments with a grain of salt.... thats all.... its funny how quick some are to judge somone who is certainly upset about something and i wish Bob would have the guts to tell is some of the real crap that must be under his skin .... im thinking there is some substance to get him worked up like this and i think he is holding back out of fear ... and im thinking that the pounding he has alaready taken by many on here (who frankly dont no **** about the inside workings or long term history of the mwc pwt or flw and think they should be carying water for them.... just because we have fished thesed events for wile or a few doesnt mean we know ****... so you never know who this Bad news bob is ? i kinda like him. but the mwc will servive if the anglers themselvs want it too... there paying the bills.... as it has been since another great bob had to babysit for the boys... | |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | If the truth is that these X-PWT anglers knew that the PWT was going down, and got together to form another circuit ahead of that fact, and tried to include what might be lots of other Tournament guys (80 elete or not) without a place to go. I'm personally missing what BNB anger and covert supecions are about it. Are we supposed to fault anybody for starting a new business after his old one fails. Are we supposed to blame everybody who wants to make a living doing what he loves and finding a way to do it. Every swinging D!$# on this site wishes he could make a decent living Fishing, Golfing or doing something they love to do. Am I personally jealous of these guys, Hell yes. I worked 25 years in a Foundry and I hated every minute of it. Hot, stinky and dangerous. 3 of my best friends I worked with were killed in job related accidents. I loved fishing and was good at it, but lacked the courage to go from guiding and chartering to stick my neck and money out, to roll the professional tournament dice. Hell, we all know it's about money. What the hell isn't. That's why I stayed at the foundry, wages and life long bennies. And Please BNB, don't tell me again that my last GM pension check is in the mail. But please do explain what your real beef is with these old PWT guys wanting to keep their livelyhood going. Or is it just the particular names of the ones who do?
Edited by walleye express 9/22/2008 6:26 PM
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| If you want any insight to the new construction market, I can tell you what, when, who is building, how many. Our company collects stats on new construction for the past 19 years in WI. Most markets in WI are down 75-80% from the peak years of 03-05. The residential building industry is experiencing the largest decline in the last 25 years. THere are lots of builders that will never make it past the end of the year. We have seen firsthand the effect of the drop in the residential market and all the subcontractors related. Inventory levels in some areas of WI are greater than 1 years supply of new homes. Businesses that were on top of the world 3 years ago and struggling to survive today. If anyone is seriously looking for information on new construction across WI, please fee free to drop me an e-mail or call me. Dominic Collar | |
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Location: Menasha, WI | Purple Skeeter,
With all this talk of the MWC and the PWT, I was wondering if this is going to affect the NCA or the MWLA. I need to know for 2009, what these organizations have planned, any help or input on this???? Also, do we need to make a new exemption in the rules for the NCA now that your old house will be off limits to crawelering???
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The NCA is moving our headquarters to Oshkosh. I was down all last week supervising the construction of our new grounds. It was an exciting time watching the all new super enriched hybrid soil get put in place. We will have over 1 acre dedicated to the championship event yet to be announced. Our board of directors has also indicated that membership dues are way ahead of schedule which has enabled us to purchase additional land for our new lake home for the president, so keep those donations and memberships coming in. While we recognize that other so called "tournaments" may be experiencing financial turmoil, the NCA's financing is strong and we are close to announcing a major sponsor in the next few weeks. Purple Skeeter President NCA
Edited by Purple Skeeter 9/22/2008 6:56 PM
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| Any truth to the rumor that Rubbermaid is disgruntled and is secretly forming their own Crawlering organization? | |
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| No there is not, they have their hands full with QUALITY PEOPLE representing their organization already. Here's the latest press release! I also heard they were courting the NCA president because they wanted to offer a complete line of Purple containers and this sponsor has declined to move forward as his time is consumed building a new home and they are now seeking an alternates. Rumor has it that they are adamant that the best way to grow business is to invest in individuals and not tournament corporations! Although, I also heard Bob has insider trading info there and might know something I don't.
HUNTERSVILLE, N.C. (Sept. 15, 2008) - Sally Hebert joined Greg Biffle in the winner's circle at the NASCAR Sprint Series Sylvania 300 on Sunday, collecting a prize package of $100,000 cash and an additional $100,000, which she chose to donate to The Conklin Center for the Blind through Rubbermaid's "Race Back to School and Win" promotion. After being selected from 30,000 entries, Hebert saw her original winnings of $1,000 in cash and a $1,000 donation multiply by 100 when Biffle took the checkered flag at New Hampshire Motor Speedway in the NASCAR Chase opening race.
HUNTERSVILLE, N.C. (Sept. 15, 2008) - Sally Hebert joined Greg Biffle in the winner's circle at the NASCAR Sprint Series Sylvania 300 on Sunday, collecting a prize package of $100,000 cash and an additional $100,000, which she chose to donate to The Conklin Center for the Blind through Rubbermaid's "Race Back to School and Win" promotion. After being selected from 30,000 entries, Hebert saw her original winnings of $1,000 in cash and a $1,000 donation multiply by 100 when Biffle took the checkered flag at New Hampshire Motor Speedway in the NASCAR Chase opening race.
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| You just can't make this stuff up....
http://badnewsbob.com/ | |
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| When it comes to Fishing Tournaments, Willow Cats, and Politics I need a "Care-o-meter" that registers the direct reflection of how I feel. Zero!!!
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| Steve,
What is so amazing? Are you implying that I'm not smart enough to add up 2 and 2? On the contrary, you were the one, that BNB pointed out, did not want to ADMITT that there may be a problem with the PWT and that a handful of anglers got together to form AIM. True or not?
Also is it true that you and Jim K are very very good friends? Does it not stand to reason that "if you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours"? Cause that's how the "good ole boys" work.
Now shall we play nice? Remember you took the first shot.
I'm asking the simple question, Why? Why has there only been 3 press releases and 1 "stage" appearence in regards to AIM. Which is supposedly a new circuit that will be ready for 2009. Does it not stand to reason that advertising, marketing, and word of mouth would be a good method to get people to come play the game? Or perhaps the guys that plan to fishin AIM will plan on doing one of two things, A) fish for their own money, or B) plan to keep the sponsor dollars limited to a smaller group of fishermen.
As for the "good ole boys network" statement, I questioned the Super pro's when it was formed, what it would become, please don't spin my words around. The design of the Super pro's was to put more dollars in the pockets of the Super pro's...pure and simple, Correct? The argument there is, where does the money come from? I think "some" want a taste of those sponsor dollars.
Next, if AIM is going to collect big time sponsor dollars, as BNB suggested, does it not make sense that AIM would display some kind of organization? I highly suspect AIM is not going after small potatoes for sponsors, at the same time, what big sponsor is going to throw a big chunk of change at an organization that doesn't appear to be organized in the general public or on the surface. Where's the substance?
Finally, this is a walleye fishing message board, when did it become a crime to ask questions and wonder about the future of walleye fishing? Why do you imply that I suggest it's a conspiracy? I would think it would only be smart money for the guys whose livelyhood depends on fishing and in their best interest to insure that their livelyhood continues had they known there was a problem with the PWT.
On a side note, Domic does bring up an interesting tidbit......the construction industry is down. There is a large number of construction workers, employees, employers, owners that play the game. One has to wonder how much that will impact tournament fishing
Keep asking questions, Bob.......I'm sure I'm not the only person that wants to know. | |
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| The break up of PWT and re-org into a new circuit was rumored well before the actual announcement was made and also it was rumored that it would re-emerge as a "Co-op" with it's own fisherman investors. The new AIM is not any paradigm shift, it is trying to literally copying a similar successful change that was previously done in the PBR, see below:
Professional Bull Riders Inc.
The WHO, WHAT, and WHERE of the Professional Bull Riders
The Professional Bull Riders, Inc., was founded in 1992 by 20 accomplished bull riders who joined together and took a business risk to try make bull riding – the most popular event in traditional rodeo – into a stand-alone sport. Each rider chipped in $1,000 to help launch his dream of someday seeing bull riders recognized as mainstream professional athletes.
As of April 23, 2007, Spire Capital Partners, L.P., a private equity firm based out of New York, became partner and majority investor in the PBR. Randy Bernard, Ty Murray, Tom Teague and all the Directors of the PBR will continue as shareholders. Fifteen of the shareholders are among the elite 45 riders currently on the BFTS tour, which will help preserve the tradition originally started by the cowboys in 1992.
Point being, who cares about when where and why PWT folded, they did, and if AIM can get enough investors more power to them.
There will always be gloom and doom people as well as those wearing rose colored glasses, I do agree though that it's too bad that anytime on this site if you disagree with 3 or 4 of the regulars you are condemned immediately, as they simply are wearing blinders.
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | Bad news bob - 9/22/2008 10:52 AM Just becasue you don't understand the motivation behind forming AIM doesn't make it any less factual. Your chronology is wrong, BNB, making nonsense out of your last post. No conspiracy at play, no hidden agendas. Who told you? Me NOT understand?????? LMAO. That is the first thing people say when you start questioning their lie. You have got to be kidding? One thing about tournament fishing I do understand is somebody wants the $$$$$$$. The easier the money the more they want it. Nonsense?....re-read my posts with an open mind. Did I call your posts nonsense because I didn't agree with them? You Mr Sworral, are a PR guy's dream because you will believe what they say for all the wrong reasons. Come on Mr Sworrel, I know you are real smart guy but please....this tournament stuff just isn't bred on a rock and form by itself. Somebody has an agenda and a self interest and that is the way tournament fishing HAS ALWAYS WORKED. There is no such a thing as socialism in tournament fishing. All tournament fisherman are not created equal nor are their intentions OR their reasons. Let my opinion go on record saying this. A major hidden reason AIM was formed is certain members knew the PWT was going belly up. These guys can't/won't or are prohibited from fishing the FLW so they started up the AIM circuit. WOW , INTERESTING , ABOVE BOB SAYS, aim was formed because certain pwt anglers are cant wont or are PROHIBITEC from fishing the Flw? this is interesting, will the FLW throw out certain well qualified anglers from fishing there events ? due to sponsor conflictions? or what ? IS THIS TRUE? IF SO THE FLW HAS ITS OWN ISSUES.. AND NOW I KNOW WHY SOME WOULD CARRY SO MUCH WATER FOR THEM. HEY BOB.. HELP ME OUT WITH THIS ONE , I FIND IT KINDA INTERESTING. | |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | THE QUESTION is not only for the flw does anyone know of any evidence of anglers getting the cold shoulder from any cercuit , flw pwt mwc ? im not talking about past cheeters im talking about qualified professional anglers who would get there entri apliction rejected based on some political or contractual confliction . does this happen? for real? | |
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| Bradley, yes, it has happened in the past. And on both sides of the fence. | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Jayman,
What was 'amazing' to me is that you said what you did the way you said it.
'One number I've read here is 80....80 fishermen are involved, yet so little has been said about it. The initial number I heard was 50 investors. There does seem to be some "secrecy" to AIM. Then again when the Super Pro's were formed I questioned if it would become the "Good Ole' Boy's network". One has to ask the question...'
That's pretty clear, as in 'One has to ask the question'. My answer was that 77 anglers now and I'm sure more in the future is too many to create the 'good old boys' organization you suggest.
The PWT Super Pro events were exactly what they were, the entry fees and payouts were posted clearly; why question 'where the money came from', that's obvious, I would think. What in the world does 'some want a taste of the sponsor dollars' mean? 'Keep the sponsor dollars to a smaller group of fisherman'? That reads like 'conspiracy theory' speculation, show me how it doesn't. If a payout is more than entry fees, then sponsor dollars are in play. If not, then the sponsor dollars are in play elsewhere. Either way, if the dollars are clearly posted as to entry and payout, there you have it. I'm sure AIM will do just that, when they are ready, and not on a schedule designed by anyone on this message board.
Jim Kalkofen has been and still IS a business associate and a friend throughout the years he's been promoting fishing. What does that have to do with this, and exactly how would any 'back scratching' benefit either his position or ours? WalleyeFIRST reported EXACTLY what was released by In Fisherman, and did an interview to clear the air with Mr. Kalkofen after he had been let go. We frequently dispel rumors and offer interviews to get the facts out on issues. That's what we do. The fact Jim was the Executive Director meant he was the person we needed to interview. We kept in close contact, and rumors to the contrary, the PWT didn't release a single thing about closing the doors until that Friday, and WAS in fact negotiating 2009 with sites and sponsors all the way to that announcement. Now think about that...if that's so, and it is, how would anyone safely assume (as in actually making a reasonable business decision) what happened was inevitable? Any number of possibilities existed, and a number still do. As I have said, AIM was already a reality and would have been no matter WHAT the PWT did for 2009 or the future.
Jim Kalkofen's position with the PWT has nothing to do with your questions or BNB's attacks on people involved with the PWT, AIM, and others and the Organizations, which went to the sublime last night. As far as asking questions or debating ANY subject, that's fine, what isn't and in any reasonable conversation should never be is bashing or personal accusations/attacks; so let's stick to the substance of the matter.
'I'm asking the simple question, Why? Why has there only been 3 press releases and 1 "stage" appearance in regards to AIM. Which is supposedly a new circuit that will be ready for 2009. Does it not stand to reason that advertising, marketing, and word of mouth would be a good method to get people to come play the game? Or perhaps the guys that plan to fishin AIM will plan on doing one of two things, A) fish for their own money, or B) plan to keep the sponsor dollars limited to a smaller group of fishermen. '
You are speculating, using terms like 'supposedly', , insinuating that some of the AIM Anglers are...well, read your own post above. I think I answered that question based upon what we know about AIM's current readiness to go public with all future plans and details, and I answered clearly and fairly.
'Next, if AIM is going to collect big time sponsor dollars, as BNB suggested, does it not make sense that AIM would display some kind of organization? I highly suspect AIM is not going after small potatoes for sponsors, at the same time, what big sponsor is going to throw a big chunk of change at an organization that doesn't appear to be organized in the general public or on the surface. Where's the substance?'
You are speculating, BNB is speculating, insinuating that some of the AIM Anglers are...well, read your own post above. I think I answered that question based upon what I know about AIM's current readiness to go public with all future plans and details, and I answered clearly and fairly based upon the information OutdoorsFIRST currently has. Why would they offer anything more than they have until they are ready to do so?
'Finally, this is a walleye fishing message board, when did it become a crime to ask questions and wonder about the future of walleye fishing? Why do you imply that I suggest it's a conspiracy? I would think it would only be smart money for the guys whose livelyhood depends on fishing and in their best interest to insure that their livelyhood continues had they known there was a problem with the PWT.'
It obviously isn't a 'crime' nor did I ever say it was. My question stands; what IS the point of negative speculations/accusations until AIM releases their plans for the future and opens public operations?
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| I'd like to personally thank each of you who kept this thread going. The dribble posted here by those in the know is facinating.
Those of you clamoring for true identities to be known.................it will never happen. He has been posting the same crap over on Walleye Central for a long time now. He will continue to hide behind the belief that he somehow influences big corporations, therefore he has to go unnamed.
My question is...........why do the circuits have to justify anything to any of you guys? Are the tournaments not optional? Isn't it your choice to fish under their rules and payouts? What do you care if the people are getting wealthy from the circuits?
As I said................very entertaining. | |
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Location: Berlin | I have been wondering that same thing Brian. I must be missing something. | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | The one nice part about walleye first Brian, is we can have this discussion and keep talking about the subject with out posts being deleted, dusted so when you read the thread it's impossible to understand anyones points. The other part is the same people always come on walleye central and say that you need to call the circuit if you have questions and basically styme anyone from hashing out things that they see ,in there minds eye, as being wrong in the scene today. You are told you are wrong because you do not think like the moderators. What is your handle on walleye central Brian? Remember many of us have been around along time. If you do not enjoy good discussion coupled with good bantering then walleye first may not be your choice of websites. For many, as you can see the post counts, it is. This is the way we roll over here.
If you do not care about a subject, then you do not have to read about it either, but the last thing we need is anyone playing Dad. These are peoples thoughts and anyone sponsoring or running a circuit should be looking for all the input they can about how that circuit is percieved in the public.
Also, you are right, it is none of our business. Of course I dont have to buy there sponsors product either. See how that makes its way around? | |
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| Brian, let me be the first to say you're welcome, I hope you enjoy my dribble Have a nice day!
Steve,
Could you please define this further? "What was 'amazing' to me is that you said what you did the way you said it. "
I don't understand, I don't think my first post was negative or conspiracy driven, on the other hand I felt your response was construed as that and on the defense.
As for the good ole boys comment. I'll stick to my guns, I'm not implying a conspiracy. But I did say it when it first came out. At which point you did not jump me for that comment...why now? See thread below.....I may be getting older but my mind hasn't gone yet.
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=6...
Speculation...Do you think.... errr....Would you speculate that others, that did fish the PWT, did the fishermen themselves speculate that there were problems, thus the creation of AIM?
I understand your journalistic view point, at the same time I don't believe everything I see on TV also. So why the defensiveness on your part? What's wrong with speculating? What's wrong with wondering? is getting excited about an upcoming tournament wrong too? Cause I know a bunch of guys that get excited about whose fishing and whose gonna win. It would seem to me that this thread has been the liveliest thread on WF in quite sometime. Yet you want to quash that, why? | |
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| Steve Worral lsays,
You are speculating, using terms like 'supposedly', , insinuating that some of the AIM Anglers are...well, read your own post above. I think I answered that question based upon what we know about AIM's current readiness to go public with all future plans and details, and I answered clearly and fairly.
You did NOT answer my questions Mr Worrall.
I want to know how Scott Matheson or any other paid tournament director hired by AIM'S board of Directors WHICH INCLUDES GARY PARSONS, KEITH K, SCOTT FAIRBAIRN and BOD CHAIRMAN, PAT NEU, is going to handle a tournament rules violation or any other tournament decision when the AIM's Board of directors are signing a DIRECT paycheck to the THAT paid tournament Director. A tournament director has the ability to cancel a tournament based on weather conditions and I don't know how a fair decision COULD EVER be decided when the Tournament Director in being PAID by these aforementioned guys who are ALSO FISHING the circuit and want the prize money for themselves REAL BAD.
I believe this AIM circuit is being created to to benefit just a very few people. who were without a circuit to fish when the PWT went out. STEVE wake up and see how this is going down.
I also have direct Knowlwdge that Gary and Chase Parsons, Keith K are prohibited from fishing the FLW tournaments while being paid by Bass Pro. Bass Pro will NOT pay them to fish An Irwin Jacobs funded tournament. Bass Pro and Irwin Jacobs are competitors and do not have much use for one another.
Steve, you need to ask harder questions and quit believing this PR drivel stuff as the truth. They are TELLING you what they WHAT YOU TO BELIEVE. JimK is a master at PR and would never tell you anything that would make him look bad even if it was the truth.
Steve, I sincerely think, you need to get tougher with these guys and put their feet to the fire. They are playing you like a bad fiddle and laughing at you behind your back on just how gullible you really are to believe some of this stuff. Without guys like you that could be asking tougher question, they have a free rein to do what they feel like for their own self interests and use money that doesn't belong to them for their own personal benefit.
I also stand by my statement that the BIG Money Sponsors everyone thinks AIM is going to get WILL NOT BE THERE. Anybody with a limited understanding on where the fishing and marine business is currently ,could give you a good reason on why the BIG sponsor dollars for a start-up Walleye circuit just WILL NOT BE THERE.
As Jack Nicholson said in the Movie " A FEW GOOD Men", you can't handle the truth?
I ask you Steve, If the Truth was something that you couldn't believe ,would you still reveal the good, the bad and the UGLY even it meant some of your walleye business buddies wouldn't look so good? In your position you can't be buddies with people you are reporting about and trying to find out real fact or facts contaminated with self interest.
Nobody is right 100% of time and all this Kow-towing you do when somebody in the walleye world comes up with a pie-in-the sky-idea, you need to ask TOUGHER questions to make it look like your not in their hip pocket of people who will believe anything.
When was the last time you were critical of any of the actions of these guys?
I need you to ask AIM how a tournament director paid by them is going to avoid a severe conflict of interest when Keith, Gary , Scott F and Pat are fishing the same tournament?
Is this too much for readers of your board to ask?
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| http://badnewsbob.com/ | |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Bad News Bob,
What is your motivation in all of this? You talk as if you are owed answers. Did you invest in AIM? Did you get an opportunity to invest in AIM? What do you know of AIM other than your own speculation? Do you have any facts or are you just speaking on what your best guess is? | |
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| Bad News Bob,
What is your motivation in all of this? You talk as if you are owed answers. Did you invest in AIM? Did you get an opportunity to invest in AIM? What do you know of AIM other than your own speculation? Do you have any facts or are you just speaking on what your best guess is?
My friend, everybody is owed answers and the TRUTH. I believe in letting the light of public scutiny shining brightly to keep everyone honest.
Well, I know many more dirty and unspeakable backroom things that will NOT get revealed to the average walleye and walleye tournament guys than some guy forking out money to fish in a game that is so rigged he can never possibly win. I am just the type of person who likes to see ALL people made aware of the good, the bad and the ugly to make a fair decision. Knowlege is power and I like to share the power and the knowledge with everyone. They know better than to ever ask me to donate because AIM would NEVER past the "business stink test". I work too hard for my money to let somebody use it for their own personal satisfaction.
I can spend my money pretty good myself without anybody's help.
You sound to me like you are looking for the truth? I will do my best to keep the heat on then. I will ask the questions and lets see how they get answered.
I have a feeling Scott is an honorable and honest guy and feels something isn't right but is not eager to step on toes that may come back and kick him.
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Location: Manitowoc WI | I cant say you havn't some good points reguarding AIM, but your original discussion on the MWC is a crock | |
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| Budsbud66 says,
I cant say you havn't some good points reguarding AIM, but your original discussion on the MWC is a crock.
In what way? Sponsor money is what makes these tournaments go. No sponsor money and signed contracts means late announcing of dates. I could be wrong, but with the business financial world in complete and utter chaos, I'm thinking I'm not far from the truth. Consumer discretionary spending on non necessary goods and services for 2009 is going to dry up tighter than a clay pot in Hades.
One thing is fact though. The MWC WILL never tell you about how much and at what amount it is funded. In the old days a major sponsor paid 25,000. I don't know what it is now but i will guarantee it is higher because now they have fulltime paid staff.
We will wait and see what happens. I will admit it if I'm wrong unlike others. But I got to see the sonsor list and the prize payback amounts. There is no way the MWC is going to immune to cuts in sponsor dollars. HEck, Merc just laid off another 160 people in Fond Du Lac yesterday.
How do you see it going down? What's your view of the financial situation.
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Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | "Well, I know many more dirty and unspeakable backroom things that will NOT get revealed to the average walleye and walleye tournament guys than some guy forking out money to fish in a game that is so rigged he can never possibly win."
I got to tell you, I have not laughed this hard in a while. Keep the blanket over the "average walleye". We got them right where we want them:)
"I am just the type of person who likes to see ALL people made aware of the good, the bad and the ugly to make a fair decision. Knowlege is power and I like to share the power and the knowledge with everyone."
Be honest now, were you wearing your superman pajama's when you typed this?
"They know better than to ever ask me to donate because AIM would NEVER past the "business stink test"."
Lol, being the professional you sound like in this last statement are you sure you are qualified to give anyone a "stink test"?
"Sponsor money is what makes these tournaments go. No sponsor money and signed contracts means late announcing of dates."
This is the only reason your complex mind could come up with for why the schedule has not been announced yet? Am I missing something, did they say it was supposed to be announced already?
"I could be wrong..."
You are:)
"One thing is fact though. The MWC WILL never tell you about how much and at what amount it is funded."
Have we ever known this about any private company in the history of humanity?
"There is no way the MWC is going to immune to cuts in sponsor dollars."
lol, this comes as a huge shock to everyone.
"My friend, everybody is owed answers and the TRUTH."
I really did not want to tell anyone this but I guess it is wrong to keep secrets so here goes. Bob, my hemorhoids are acting up and the itch is UNBEARABLE.
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| To Rich s
Be honest now, were you wearing your superman pajama's when you typed this?
"They know better than to ever ask me to donate because AIM would NEVER past the "business stink test"."
Lol, being the professional you sound like in this last statement are you sure you are qualified to give anyone a "stink test"?
Yes sir, I bet you one of those guys that thought Nixon could do no wrong either? I bet you were the kind of guy that thought Enron was a great investment and those "corporate" guys would NEVER screw anybody out of a dime under any circumstance?
Rich, is there any kind of Red Flags anybody could possibly raise in any business situation that would convince you into thinking something may be ROTTEN IN DENMARK?
You are set your thinking and surely not anything I can say is going to change that. I think I will classify your comments as what folks told Noah when he was building his boat.
Thank-you for a complete and well thought out analysis of the situation. I'm sure it really got some posters here thinking about what really could happen?
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| stacker - 9/23/2008 12:56 PM
The one nice part about walleye first Brian, is we can have this discussion and keep talking about the subject with out posts being deleted, dusted so when you read the thread it's impossible to understand anyones points. The other part is the same people always come on walleye central and say that you need to call the circuit if you have questions and basically styme anyone from hashing out things that they see ,in there minds eye, as being wrong in the scene today. You are told you are wrong because you do not think like the moderators. What is your handle on walleye central Brian? Remember many of us have been around along time. If you do not enjoy good discussion coupled with good bantering then walleye first may not be your choice of websites. For many, as you can see the post counts, it is. This is the way we roll over here.
If you do not care about a subject, then you do not have to read about it either, but the last thing we need is anyone playing Dad. These are peoples thoughts and anyone sponsoring or running a circuit should be looking for all the input they can about how that circuit is percieved in the public.
Also, you are right, it is none of our business. Of course I dont have to buy there sponsors product either. See how that makes its way around?
Ummm, I missed something I think.
I was'nt condeming Walleye First for anything. I was'nt applauding Walleye Central for anything. The only two points I think I was making was The poster was'nt going to identify himself. And two, whose business is it how much money the tounaments make.
That said, go ahead and post what you want to. You have the freedom to do so. I will post my opinion just as it's my right to do.
Not that it matters, but you asked. I'm Dutchboy on WC among others. Will that get me booted here?  | |
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Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | "Yes sir, I bet you one of those guys that thought Nixon could do no wrong either?"
I would have been the smartest embryo in history if that was the case.
"I bet you were the kind of guy that thought Enron was a great investment and those "corporate" guys would NEVER screw anybody out of a dime under any circumstance?"
Nope.
"You are set your thinking and surely not anything I can say is going to change that."
Not true at all. I just think you are going about this all wrong. People like facts and that is one thing you don't have much of. Lets be honest, you obviously have your own agenda here. Trying to protect the innocent is not it. If you have something to say (and I do believe you do) just say it! There are more people on here right now reading this post then I have ever seen. The stage is yours and the microphone is on.
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| Uh, dude, I'm pretty certain Worrall was on the original committee (your "back room") that started the MWC (Manufacturers Walleye Council). He's also covered more walleye events that any one single person on the earth. If being a part of the birth of organized competitive walleye fishing doesn't qualify you to comment on walleye tournaments I'm not sure what would be good enough for you.
I'm also sure WF doesn't have a stable of lawyers ready to clean up the mess after printing the innuendo and conjecture you seem to want to read here - thus they just do the interview with the guy running the event - pretty logical move. | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Jayman,
Same page, different viewpoint. One's reality is based on one's knowledge and perspective, so mine is temporarily different than yours, perhaps. I have said all that needs to be, from my perspective.
Only trying to keep the facts out there in the mix, best as I can, through all the noise from our friend BNB. | |
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| TO Rich S,
Not true at all. I just think you are going about this all wrong. People like facts and that is one thing you don't have much of. Let’s be honest, you obviously have your own agenda here. Trying to protect the innocent is not it. If you have something to say (and I do believe you do) just say it! There are more people on here right now reading this post then I have ever seen. The stage is yours and the microphone is on.
To everyone,
If you are looking for a black and white world with a 100% right or 100% wrong answer, you might need to take another look at your logic. People will never tell you the truth if it makes them look like they are anything less than honest. I was the first to predict when Mercury pulled sponsorship $$$ out of the PWT under another screename, it would cause the PWT to go under. It took a year but when they announced NO championship, the writing was on the wall and I didn't need any facts. The PWT was history and whether you want to believe it or not Jimmy K knew it too. Jimmy knew a PWT without a Championship meant he should start looking for other employment opportunities I have no agenda and I haven't fished a PWT tournament in 14 years but I did start fishing the MWC when Gary Parsons was in a used bass boat running a Furuno paper graph or some other weird gizmo.
The only facts you need to know is the PWT is Gone and I predicted it first on Walleye First. Walleye Centra will delete you faster than the speed of light if you have any opinion or controversial question against anybody in professional walleye circuit.
I want to personally thank Steve Worrall for letting this discussion evolve to what it has become because I will guarantee you Walleye Central would NOT allow any comment on why the PWT went down the tubes nor would they allow any input or comment on how sponsorship dollars are paid or used for ANY REASON.
You guys may not agree with me and I accept that with vigor. All the name calling of me and cat calls will not change my questions nor my attitude. You have your opinions and I have mine. I know how this game works financially in the backroom and most guys here don't including Steve Worrall. I can give you a good "how and why" things happen the way they do. It is ugly and that's why I quit fishing tournaments. The worst in people always comes out when somebody is playing a game for money. If I ever got back in the tournament game (which I won't), I would get me a good attorney and be prepared to use the court system every time I think a rule was interpreted and applied to benefit a "pretty boy" participant. Don't think for one minute other fishermen in the past haven’t used the courts to get a rule "unapplied" to them either. You guys just don't know about it because that stuff is hidden under the rug. Unfortunately, I do know about it.
Steve Worrall is I believe a good and stand up guy who wants to do good for all involved, but he isn't asking the tough questions because he doesn't want to offend people in positions of power. Steve wants to do right but hasn't been around long enough to know how the REAL game is played. I believe I have him thinking in the right direction when I told him you NEVER call a corporate PR guy and expect to get the truth on what topic you ask. A good PR guy's job is to tell you what he wants you to believe and anything that's puts his employer in a bad light is snuffed, understated, discounted, fluffed, SPUN and generally referred to in the "you don't understand" mentality mode.
If anything, if we ask the right questions, Walleye First can get a Good reputation on not censoring hot topics when somebody doesn't quite look like the innocent Saint they tell everyone they appear to be. Trust me guys, there are some pretty good people in this business but there are many more who are less than honest.
I'm proud to say I'm one of the good guys. If I'm wrong I will admit it. If I'm right you better start listenng and thinking about what I said so it won't happen again.
Let's keep asking honest and tough questions and make this website a place where all walleye issues can be discussed openly without a censor button being applied to protect somebody.
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Location: Berlin | LOUD and clear Bob. You just gave me the answers I was looking for. Your motivation has become quite obvious in your last post. The last thing I will say on this topic is that when it comes to Steve you have no clue. He was around before you and he has lasted much longer then you have in this business. I am sorry this business was not all you thought it was and that it did not work out for you. Please don't assume that the rest of us are clueless just because we still are involved. Please don't be upset because some people know how to play the game and you apparently did not. It is not for everyone but what job is?? You are quick to point out flaws in others but yet you remain nameless. Let me know when you want to go fishing. I would love to spend a day in a boat with you.
I have come up with a theory of my own. Maybe BNB is actually Steve. The number of people looking at WalleyeFirst is through the roof for this time of year. Hmmmmm;) Just teasing! | |
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| "I have no agenda and I haven't fished a PWT tournament in 14 years but I did start fishing the MWC when Gary Parsons was in a used bass boat running a Furuno paper graph or some other weird gizmo."
You have no agenda? Really. And you won't reveal who you are? What have YOU got to hide?
You fished the PWT and the MWC. Please tell, how did that work out for you?
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