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| Central Division
March 28 & 29 - Spring Valley, IL (Illinois River)
May 16 & 17 -- Lake City, MN (Mississippi River/Lake Pepin)
July 11 & 12 - Marinette WI/Menominee MI (Bay of Green Bay)
East Division
April 25 & 26 - Trenton, MI (Detroit River & Michigan Only Lake Erie)
May 29, 30 & 31 - Sandusky, OH (Central Lake Erie)
Aug 21, 22 & 23– Dunkirk, NY (Eastern Lake Erie)
West Division
May 2 & 3 – Mobridge, SD (Lake Oahe)
July 25 & 26 – Devils Lake, ND (Devils Lake)
Sept 12 & 13 – Webster, SD (Waubay Lake)
Championship
October 7 (ProAm) and 8-10 - Dundee, MI (Lake Erie & Detroit River) | |
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| Just my opinion but I think the central division schedule participant numbers will drop dramatically, that is an ugly schedule. | |
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| I agree, participation in the central will be down. That schedule is ugly but I suppose to some it looks great. Is anyone else who normally fishes the MWC getting a bit tired of the Spring Valley tournament year after year? I know the people and community are great, etc. but just wondering how others feel? | |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Not trying to start any crap here. But isn't that first one the one that gets flooded out every year? And didn't one fish win it last year and everybody figured that one winning fish was snagged? That late March timeframe is a tough one to predict on the rivers I fish as well. Some years the water levels are O.K. and the fishing outstanding for some excellent pre-spawners. Most other years though with a little warm weather run-off and some rain, the river is at the top of the parking lot. 
Edited by walleye express 10/6/2008 2:28 PM
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| No Dan, there were 4 fish caught last year. Not just 1.
I never heard anyone accuse the winners of snagging...??
Don't you think it's wrong to tarnish reputations with a question like that, without knowing the facts? Or, at least careless? I do.
Fact: The river does NOT flood every year. We've fished there plenty of times when it was a normal stage for the month of March/April.
Juls | |
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Location: Berlin | Spring Valley is MWC. Getting rid of that stop is out of the question if you ask me. Absolutely my favorite tournament. Sure it can be ugly but the numbers don't lie. You will have a lot of unhappy campers if it is not the first stop. It has always been my first tournament of the year since I started back in '01. And besides, where else could you have a tournament in March and get those numbers?? Plus, it has got to be one of the best sauger fisheries in the country.
Edited by Rich S 10/6/2008 3:20 PM
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Location: LaCrosse, WI | It seems to me to be the typical MWC schedule. Why deviate from what works. This schedule gives something to most types of anglers.
The river guys get Spring Valley & Red Wing
The trollers get Green Bay and Red Wing (Pepin)
It's actually a pretty good mix in my opinion. This day and age, everybody's looking to level the playing field, and this does it pretty well.
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Juls_OH - 10/6/2008 4:05 PM
No Dan, there were 4 fish caught last year. Not just 1.
I never heard anyone accuse the winners of snagging...??
Don't you think it's wrong to tarnish reputations with a question like that, without knowing the facts? Or, at least careless? I do.
Fact: The river does NOT flood every year. We've fished there plenty of times when it was a normal stage for the month of March/April.
Juls
Juls.
Chill. You have enough problems with slammers, but I'm not one of them. Try to remember that. That's why I said at the begining "I'm not trying to start any Crap" and I was not. That is truly what I seemed to remember reading about that tourney. And if you think snagging fish in those flooded conditions (by accident of course) is rare, you have not fished enough rivers yet cousin. I'm no stranger to what changing spring river conditions can do in a hurry to the best layed plans. If I was continually having high water trouble at certain times of the year, I may not change the place but would change the date to fish it. That's all I meant.
Edited by walleye express 10/6/2008 3:46 PM
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| And if you think snagging fish in those flooded conditions are rare, you have not fished enough rivers yet cousin. QUOTE]
Yep, I'm just sitting here in my office....chill'n!
Did I say it was rare? Nope. I'm not as old as you are Cuz-in-law, but I have fished plenty of rivers in my 45 years...even snagged some fish.... Who hasn't? 
Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't want the winners to be tagged as cheaters when that wasn't the case, whether you meant to, or not...that's the way it came across. You know how this internet stuff works...just saying, "I don't want to start any crap", doesn't mean you're not going to. Know what I mean?
Juls | |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Didn't the guy/team who won it last year just catch one fish on the last day? | |
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| walleye express - 10/6/2008 4:42 PM
Didn't the guy/team who won it last year just catch one fish on the last day?
Yes, but so did three other teams. They paid out 4 places. Each team caught one fish.
Juls | |
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| "And if you think snagging fish in those flooded conditions (by accident of course) is rare, you have not fished enough rivers yet cousin. I'm no stranger to what changing spring river conditions can do in a hurry to the best layed plans."
Since you're not a stranger, perhaps you should step up to the plate. Instead instill doubt upon someone else's skills. Perhaps a few.....just a few may be able to catch a fish when you can't. Not trying to start crap... | |
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| I have fished the Spring Valley many more times than both Dan and Jules put together and about 50% of the time at that timer of year it is in flood stage with the chocolate milk water and floating telephone poles plus old refrigerators from Obama's Chicago. The REAL reason Spring Valley will never leave the MWC schedule is BECAUSE SPRING VALLEY PAYS IN EXCESS OF 10,000 DOLLARS TO HOST AN MWC tournament!
It is NOT about fishing. It is ABOUT $$$$$$$$$ | |
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Location: Berlin | 50%...WRONG:) Give me a couple days and I will tell you the exact percentage.
This is obviously not the same BNB as before;) | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Who gives a hoot who pays what to whom?
The MWC traditionally holds their first event out of Spring Valley, and will probably do so for the near future at least. It's usually a good event. Weather and conditions effect any event, one can have flooded conditions on almost any pool of any major river at any time. Winds can kill an event for one day or more on any of the Great Lakes. Freezing temps can even cause a cancellation of a day in South Dakota.
That's tournament fishing.
The key is to know when to cancel. I can remember plenty of times I personally felt the boats should not have left the docks, and remember plenty of times when the Pros were complaining because they thought a cancellation was not necessary.
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Location: Orland Park, IL | I think the schedule is pretty nice. And the west folks should be happy. Spring Valley is always a fun spot, though indeed it can get hairy.
Is spring valleye a year to year thing with MWC or is there some long term contract or something? | |
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| Variety is the spice of life . some poeple just cant except any change nor do they want to. Thats to bad for mwc.Theres alot of anglers who dont care to fish anywhere in that god awfull state of NOISE. Anyone know how many boats showed up last year at that tourny? | |
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| Poor "walleye express": You made the fatal error of saying smething bad about somethng that the 4/5 controllers of this site like. Now you will experience the wrath of sworrall, sunshine, rich s, jayman, rookie etc. You need to realize you can never say anything bad about a circuit or it's directors or any boat or they will always jump your ....
Back to the topic, if change is good then why never change spring valley, why is it the only stop that is always on the schedule but the other 2 always rotate around? If spring valley doesn't change then why not lock in two other spots and make it a permanent thing with 3 same spots every year GB in July, come on that is not even close to prime time for there, yeah yeah I know it's gotten much better but still....... | |
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| 2007 was the year of 4 fish. 2008 had around 160 boats with 1106 fish being caught. Something must be right if this will be the 23rd year for this event. | |
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| BWW said,
I agree, participation in the central will be down. That schedule is ugly but I suppose to some it looks great. Is anyone else who normally fishes the MWC getting a bit tired of the Spring Valley tournament year after year? I know the people and community are great, etc. but just wondering how others feel?
The guy wanted an answer if anglers were getting tired of fishing Spring Valley year after year.
Spring Valley has had an MWC tourney since 1988 EVERY SINGLE YEAR. If my math is correct that makes 21 STRAIGHT years.
Steve, I really wish you would start informing your readers about what really happens and quit "fluffing" the truth with trivial statements like , " who really cares about who pays what to whom'?
Spring Valley MWC will BE ON THE DATE LIST FOREVER AS LONG AS SPRING VALLEY KEEPS PAYING THE MWC TO HOLD A TOURNAMENT THERE!
They really don't care how high the river rises or how bad the fishing is. The fact remains is if you PAY the MWC to hold a tournament , they will hold a tournament ANYPLACE.
I remember when the MWC held 2 tournaments in on Muskegon Lake and had over 250 teams catch 8 fish one year and 12 fish the next. Because the Muskegon Lake people didn't pay the MWC money like Spring Valley, the MWC dropped Muskegon Lake like a hot potato.
MONEY TALK AND BULLCRAP WALKS when you start scheduling walleye tournaments. This is way it has been FOREVER and IT WILL NOT CHANGE.
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| Let me add this and you take it for what it is worth. When you fish a Spring Valley walleye tournament. any time you reel in a fish and the jig is anywhere near the mouth including the gills you put it in the live well faster than a 20 dollars bill disappears on a Chicago sidewalk. A walleye tournament is the last place you want to get self righteous just because the hook caught the gill plate instead of the mouth. Don't kid yourself boys and girls, I AM NOT GOING TO THROW BACK A Sauger BECAUSE IT WAS HOOKED IN THE GILL PLATE AND ANY OTHER IDIOT WITH BRAIN CELLS WON'T either, especially when this tournament can be won on one puny minmum legal size Sauger which was 13 inches.
The chance of getting caught is below ZERO and I personally know of well over 30 guys who snagged Spring Valley saugers and kept them. It is just the way things are done when you fish Spring Valley.
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| Bob, are you just mad because the MWC came out with their schedule? Have the pre-winter blues getting you down? Has the presidential race got your undies in a bundle? Rest assured, Hillary might run again in four years so you still will have another chance to get her in. Hang in there bud, it will get better:)
P.S. I do appreciate the comic relief you give this site. Keep it coming, I feel smarter after every post I read. Thanks again. | |
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| ct - 10/7/2008 8:20 AM
Poor "walleye express": You made the fatal error of saying smething bad about somethng that the 4/5 controllers of this site like. Now you will experience the wrath of sworrall, sunshine, rich s, jayman, rookie etc. You need to realize you can never say anything bad about a circuit or it's directors or any boat or they will always jump your ....
Back to the topic, if change is good then why never change spring valley, why is it the only stop that is always on the schedule but the other 2 always rotate around? If spring valley doesn't change then why not lock in two other spots and make it a permanent thing with 3 same spots every year GB in July, come on that is not even close to prime time for there, yeah yeah I know it's gotten much better but still.......
CT, you should look back in the archives after the 2007 Spring Valley tournament. You might find the info and the opinions expressed here very interesting. | |
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| BNB, you don't know everything. I know of one angler in that tourney who hooked two fish outside the mouth, snagged they were, and they both went back in. He would have won the tourney if he had kept them. Sorry, but your loathing of the MWC is showing through again.
And even if Spring Valley pays the MWC to hold an event, so what?
And you never did answer my question from the other thread. You state that you were a tournament angler. How did that work out for you? | |
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| Shep, with the economy the way it is right now expect to see more of this. Lots of "unsuccessful" tournament anglers out there right now that are very bitter. | |
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Location: LaCrosse, WI | To CT,
I just want to clarify since you brought me up. If you come on to a forum like this and spew unwarranted accusations without any fact you will probably be questioned. I don't blindly defend tournaments just because, but will not stand for someone with a personal vendetta making accusations that could affect people’s livelihoods just because they didn't like something.
Tournament anglers and organizations rely heavily on sponsors and their dollars. Public bashes of specific people or organizations without fact to back it up are just irresponsible. You want to be respected and listened to like an adult, then act like one.
We live in the world of political correctness, and sites like WalleyeFirst and any others that you may frequent pretty much have their hands tied. If they want to work with any tournament organizations, they can not publish hearsay as fact. Show me a website where everybody can say whatever they please without anybody else defending it and I'll be glad to take a look.
Over the last month we've seen some imaginary numbers thrown out without any evidence to their validity. Now another user is telling us that every tournament angler is a cheater. If a person actually cared about tournament fishing, they would never make a public statement like that. I know for a fact that I've never kept an illegally hooked fish just because I was in a tournament. I do take offense to being called a cheater when I've worked so hard to make sure that I do not do those types of things.
I have had my arguments with a few regulars on this site, but I can see those guys at an event and go up and talk to them. The reason for that is I know who they are and even though we disagree on some things, we have the same overall goals in mind. Level headed debate is one thing, but blatant personal attacks are un-necessary. | |
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| Rich, I may have to re-visit that post, I do recall lots of chat about it and many negative opinions with regards to conditions and so forth.
What I don't get is why you and others always have to throw shots out there like "unsuccessful tournament angler" or getting bullied as I sat alone on a tetter totter.
Why not actually read the post and answer my question rather than taking shots at me. Why does spring valley get locked in and none of the others ? Simple question, I mean if it's supposed to change around then why not that one? Very simple question.
BY the way I only did one tourney last year, it was a very popular large one and I cashed a nice check, so I think that is somewhat successful. | |
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| Whoa, whoa whoa....let me get this right first, CT.
You throw the first stone and then tell me I'm the immature one since you disagree with my opinion? It's all making sense now. hahaha Thanks, that was funny and I needed some laughter.
For the record, I'm not a controller, or moderator or whatever you think it is. Probably the furthest thing from the truth. Also this isn't the first time you've "called me out", so perhaps you have a bone to pick? I'm all ears.
Back to the thread at hand.
I agree with Rich I believe the economy will take it's toll on more tournament anglers, I see numbers as a whole being down. Sure some circuits will be up while others will be down, but less players as a whole.
From a traveling aspect, I like the schedule. I like that the MWC has expended to add the West. I'm sure the people out West that have traveled to fish the Central will appreciate it too. For the Central, there seems to be some complaint about the dates, but really it's semantics at best, fish will be caught will it be a great bite vs a good bite? Who knows, it's different every year. But one thing I've learned over the years, put tournament anglers in a place where the bite is not a traditonal time and people still seem to unlock new secrets.
BNB, I have one question for you also, If it is so wrong for a tournament circuit to make money and collect sponsor dollars or venue dollars. Why don't you run a 100% pay out circuit and do it for "free" on your own time, not collect a penny and give the rest to the anglers?
Edited by Jayman 10/7/2008 10:34 AM
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| CT - 10/7/2008 10:30 AM
Rich, I may have to re-visit that post, I do recall lots of chat about it and many negative opinions with regards to conditions and so forth.
What I don't get is why you and others always have to throw shots out there like "unsuccessful tournament angler" or getting bullied as I sat alone on a tetter totter.
Why not actually read the post and answer my question rather than taking shots at me. Why does spring valley get locked in and none of the others ? Simple question, I mean if it's supposed to change around then why not that one? Very simple question.
BY the way I only did one tourney last year, it was a very popular large one and I cashed a nice check, so I think that is somewhat successful.
Congrats on the check!
I surely did not mean that as a shot to anyone. It is very unfortunate things are the way they are right now and I feel horrible for everyone affected.
I am a positive person. I can't comprehend why some people chime in and rant nothing but negativity. All that does is make matters worse and puts everyone in a foul mood. If we turned that focus and intensity to the positive we might be able to make things better. As for the initial question, I did answer it in my first response. Good luck next year! | |
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| thanks Rich | |
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| Hey BAD NEWS BOB....You are quoted in the previous heated debate saying the MWC is gonna be dead in the water!!! Well the schedule is out... they have increased there events haven't they. Just wanted to remind you of some of your gospel so others are aware. Good Luck | |
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| Guys, the schedule is out, it's done. Regardless of how much is paid or not paid, how many years in a row it's been at Spring Valley, etc., etc.
Let's keep a couple of things in mind:
First, while at times temperamental, or even outright hazardous, the Illinois River has also had some phenomenal bites. Jigging, pulling floaters, handlining, it's all been successful.
Secondly, even if the town of Spring Valley didn't pay a cent to host the MWC, the facilities and volunteers would MORE than make up for it. The Spring Valley Boat Club, as well as the Spring Valley Walleye Club, have ALWAYS made sure that everyone has been treated exceptionally well, and provided an outstanding tournament experience. Give them a little credit. Why wouldn't you want to hold a tournament there when they make it so easy and trouble free year after year?
If you don't like the Spring Valley tournament, don't fish it. If you don't like the MWC, don't fish it. But, to read the hearsay and bashing that's going on in these posts, it's just sad.
I'm out. | |
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| Well said Mike. That sums it up pretty good. | |
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| I see, so never question anything, lay down and accept everything we are told, and if someone/place is unfairly given more than others well that is just too bad.
As I said before, never say anything questioning any tourney, director, circuit , or boat make cause on here that means you get bashed. Thanks for reinforcing my point!! | |
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Location: Rhinelander | ct,
I'm not a 'controller', far from it.
Folks can and do say plenty any one of us might not agree with; what would be the point of a discussion or debate if that didn't happen? What's being missed here is Dan said he READ that one of the fish caught and entered in that event was snagged. If I read what was originally posted correctly, and I think I did, his point was that the Illinois River is a time bomb for a tournament trail in the early spring that WILL (and in fact did) go off, creating the atmosphere where posts like the one Dan remembers reading are not uncommon. The event was without question a PR disaster, and from most perspectives with 20/20 hindsight vision, perhaps should have been rescheduled.
I believe that was his point, that there may indeed be a better choice of location out there somewhere for an early MWC.
I read that comment too, in fact it was posted here a couple times and was removed, and for good reason. Now...look at the result. Someone posts a nasty, mean spirited comment as fact. Someone ELSE posted they read that comment.
Someone read it, referenced it, and then was accused of authoring the comment, completely out of the intended context. It's really too bad anyone read that stuff at all.
BNB, the original, not the other guy who made a point by using your moniker:
Fluff? Wow what a revelation, tournament organizations hold events where it economically beneficial to do so! Oh my GOD!!! Tournaments are about the MONEY?? Companies and communities want PROMOTION and will PAY for it??
what?
I think it's a testament to the MWC IF the Spring Valley area pays them at all.
You overstate the obvious over and over, adding sensationalistic rhetoric, and then expect we will all gasp in revelation...your point about Muskegon isn't really relevant, because the catch on the Illinois River is usually REALLY good. I see the Illinois River issue being a couple events out of all held there, one which was discussed above.
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| CT- Do you also question Kellogg's on their cereal production choices? Or Mattel on Barbie's outfits? Or maybe you've sent emails to Blue Bunny complaining of their ice cream flavors?
No? Then why do it here. The product is offered to you. Buy or don't. You have no say in the matter.
Edited by thumper 10/7/2008 2:12 PM
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| Playing favorites, eh, Steve?
Why let Capt Dan READ and take out of context, and imply the Stuefen Brothers cheated by snagging a fish in the MWC tournament they won? you're all about facts, Where's Dan's facts? Huh?
Nice double standard. | |
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| CT, I never bashed anyone, please don't accuse me of it.
I simply said, and I quote, "If you don't like the Spring Valley tournament, don't fish it. If you don't like the MWC, don't fish it."
I'll stand by that. There are a lot of other tournaments to fish.
Edited by walleyedmike 10/7/2008 2:28 PM
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Location: Rhinelander | I don't have any 'favorites', Jayman, and have met Dan a couple times and talked to him a total of maybe 2 minutes.
Uhhh, no. I believe I stated exactly what was said before some editing took place and how I personally interpreted same. I didn't see any direct accusations, just an argument (including what WAS posted at the time) between a Juls and DAN that got heated, IMHO because they have a past history of arguing. He said he read that comment. So did I. He said fish get snagged in rivers AFTER he had been accused as you just accused...semantics aside, I honestly don't think he was accusing anyone directly from what I read. You missed my point, and missed what was gong on under current in that exchange, too.
The posts accusing the winners of snagging that single fish WERE here and didn't require anyone to change the context---the posts were pretty direct. I deleted them myself. There was plenty of support for that nasty post, too, I might add, but because the entire argument was pure speculation, it wasn't left up. Face it, some folks who may not know the winners and are not familiar with their personal ethics might believe that it is possible the fish was snagged. Answer this question...why would one unfortunately believe that? it has nothing to DO with who won, it has to do with the fact they caught only ONE fish, and there were only 4 caught...and some folks freely admitted to releasing snagged fish...the event was a PR nightmare. I think that was Dan's point, he can correct me if I am wrong. My point was the event should perhaps have been rescheduled when fish might actually be caught by the bulk of good anglers in that field, and more than 4 would come in to the scales under conditions that bred widespread discontent amongst anglers and fans.
Since when is encouraging fair play ALL THE WAY AROUND a double standard?
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| and if I don't like it I can say so
and actually I can call any company and complain about their products, actually most companies have a specific office and personnel for consumer complaints satisfaction. I wouls think MWC directors actually would like to hear what fishermen like or dislike about locations
oh, and sorry you still play w/Barbie Dolls (ok, I ad,mit that was my first personal shot) | |
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| sworrall - 10/7/2008 2:36 PM
Uhhh, no. I believe I stated exactly what was said before some editing took place. I didn't see any direct accusations, just an argument including what WAS posted at the time between a WC moderator and DAN that got heated because of past disagreements . He said he read that comment. So did I. he said fish get snagged in rivers AFTER he had been accused as you just accused...semantics aside, I honestly don't think he was accusing anyone directly from what I read. You missed my point, and missed what was gong on under current in that exchange, too.
The posts accusing the winners of snagging that single fish WERE here, I deleted them myself.
Since when is encouraging fair play ALL THE WAY AROUND a double standard?
Hey, Dan and I weren't arguing! He saw something you deleted that some of us didn't see.
He brought it up again, which if it was deleted the first time, should be a good indicator that it shouldn't be brought to life again...right?
That's all I was saying, and he GOT that. I thanked him for making his thoughts more clear in that, it wasn't his intention to accuse the winners of cheating (which is the way it came across initially). We weren't arguing or slamming each other like others are doing here. LOL Sheesh....
Now, tell me, why do I have to be referenced as a "WC Moderator" instead of by the name I use here?
That's what I call an "under current" if I ever read one...and, for that, I'm going to kick you in the shin when I see you next week, just so ya know. lol;)
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| Why can he say the fish were snagged then? True or not there are no facts to back his statement.
It's a cheap shot from somebody pounding their chest that doesn't even play the game. I only suggested that person step-up and play before they mis-quote what they read on some internet website. It's called showing a little respect for the winners. Instead of tarnishing a great job that the winning team did. Weather they like it or not, there is a set of rules that the game is played by and every player knew it. Every player probably prefished it and every player probably knew it was coming. And every player had the right to contest it. Those are the facts.
You editing/deleting posts is no more than taking things out context also. It changes the "story". | |
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Location: Rhinelander | I sees what's I sees, Juls. You two were exchanging words, punctuated by desriptives. He actually tried to clarify what he meant as a result. I'll post your name instead, edit completed. Don't you dare kick me, or I'll have to complain to Rick!
And no, just because something is removed from a message board here or on WC doesn't make it less the poster's opinion, and it's a shame (point made again) that the situation bred that sort of malcontent.
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| "You overstate the obvious over and over, adding sensationalistic rhetoric, and then expect we will all gasp in revelation"-Steve W to BNB
Steve, can I use this as my signature? It is like poetry to me:) | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Jayman,
I didn't edit any posts here. Look at the posts, if it says 'edited by' there you have it. I will not remove any, either, unless they contain a vendetta or personal attack. Hmmm...well, against someone else, anyway.
I'll stand with my original interpretation of what was said; you interpret it any way you want, but I'd ask you to look at the entire exchange again. Knowing what WAS said ( and not just once) at the time of the event, it's easy to see how that rumor got started and how the question might be asked again, and Dan posted it in the form of a question, did he not? If it was a question, is it not reasonable to say that those who have created in ther own words an accusation out of what was a question are furthering the very rumor they seek to squelch?
if you read the exchange carefully, the question may be construed to NOT even be about the team you mentioned, as it was, and I quote, 'one winning fish' mentioned. Juls pointed out 4 were caught. All 4 won a position and a considerable amount of money, as was published by the PR after the event.
Perspective.
Juls straightened him out on that question, too, a bit over zealously, but that's OK, she read the question as you do, not as a general statement of what some of the commentary was at the time. Correct? Then he tried to clarify what point he was attempting to make. Correct? Is this not how 'facts' are arrived at in a conversation or debate?
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| Steve, I see one of my posts missing, correct? See how the story gets changed...
I understood exactly what Dan and Juls were discussing I also pulled out one simple statement which I've stated before and contested, obviously.
Now if CT is that upset about a "personal attack" for saying he played on the teeter totter by himself, well then he should think about the check he cashed and think about the check the MWC winners cashed and then think how he'd feel to be called a cheater by someone that doesn't play the game. Deleted or not.
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Location: Rhinelander | You again missed or choose to ignore my entire point. | |
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| CT - 10/7/2008 2:38 PM
and if I don't like it I can say so
and actually I can call any company and complain about their products, actually most companies have a specific office and personnel for consumer complaints satisfaction. I wouls think MWC directors actually would like to hear what fishermen like or dislike about locations
And I would think that if no one fished in the Spring Valley tournament, they would realize a change needed to be made. Guess what? That's never happened in all of the years it's been there. Many years even had a waiting list.
Actions speak louder than words. Don't fish it. | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | I will stay out of the fight some of you have going, but I just read the thread from the start and Dans statement:
Not trying to start any crap here. But isn't that first one the one that gets flooded out every year? And didn't one fish win it last year and everybody figured that one winning fish was snagged?
If it was me that won, well, I would be less than thrilled at this point. And sorry, from a guy who does start alot of crap, Dan, by saying "Not trying to start crap", well, I take it like you are trying to start some. If your point was to tell us we need a change of playing fields because the unpredictability of spring valley water levels, Why did you need to throw in the snagging thing?
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| sworrall - 10/7/2008 4:11 PM
Juls straightened him out on that question, too, a bit over zealously, but that's OK, she read the question as you do, not as a general statement of what some of the commentary was at the time. Correct? Then he tried to clarify what point he was attempting to make. Correct? Is this not how 'facts' are arrived at in a conversation or debate?
Really? Ya think that was over zealous? Hmmmm...didn't feel that way when I was typing it, or reading it.
If that's the case, then I sincerely apologize to Capt Dan for my over zealousness.
Either way, he cleared it up and is off the hook in my book. I have no more issues in this thread, so I'm gone.
Buh-bye!
Juls
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Location: Rhinelander | Stacker;
Because that rumor was part and parcel of that aftermath of that event? I heard that, and from several sources, and not just once. Did I believe it? No, had no reason to believe it or not believe it, it sounded like a sour grapes rumor over the fact many anglers felt they had absolutely no chance to catch a fish under those conditions, and the event was, due to conditions, a crap shoot. Not discussing what happened that created the situation that allowed that sort of rumor to get going won't make the rumor go away. Clarifying what really happened, which some are interested in doing, will, if everyone sticks to the facts and the basis of the question and stops tossing darts. | |
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Location: Rhinelander | I was poking fun at you and Dan with all the 'cuz' and 'cousin in law' stuff, Juls. Expect it in the future, I will do it again...
And I did say you assisted in getting out what he actually meant.
Lord knows without a sense of humor this would be a dull life. Mine is sometimes leaning a little to much towards the British. | |
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Location: Appleton wi | man o man what a thread. winter isnt officaially here yet but me thinks its going to be a long winter!LOL | |
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| "Clarifying what really happened, which some are interested in doing, will, if everyone sticks to the facts and the basis of the question and stops tossing darts."
Steve, I understood your point, I think you've chose to ignore mine. Thankfully somebody understood it. Stacker, you get a gold Star
But I digress, So to get this straight...we should be clarifying and sticking to the facts by letting a hearsay rumor remain in the form of a question, weather it be true or not?
Outstanding! | |
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| going to be a fun off season, some one has to promise a new topic every week so we can kill the winter, this one actually helped me through a boring day at work, Thanks to all!! | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Actually the 'snagged fish' argument was never in play other than a question about what Dan actually read on forums on the internet about that MWC event, obviously mentioned by Dan in order to question the choice of a temperamental river system at a time of year where severe flooding easily could create a situation just like this one did, not to accuse anyone in particular...the rumors were out there; bad rumors put forth by angry folks (some of them claiming anonymously to be in the event), but there none the less. Anyone want to deny that? That discussion was OVER as Juls and Dan settled it, clarifying positions nicely until someone else (actually, a couple someones) decided to ignore all that and roll in a few personal insult grenades.
My effort was to point out the above, and that in all probability once every ten years or so the Illinois River is going to flood, in a spectacular fashion, and right during the event. It's not the location at that point, it's the decision to send out the field in an event that due to horrible and actually dangerous conditions is no longer a tournament, it's a crap shoot. Not to diminish the win, but one fish to win a two day event is...one fish. Great they won, but in my opinion (which all of this from all of us is, just opinion) the event shouldn't have been on under those conditions.
Quick to the trigger a good shot makes no one.
And, I think the MWC Schedule is just fine. Since I don't fish it or report on it (yet) and have no reason to think anything to the contrary, I think it's wonderful.
And it's out, blowing up a BNB declaration. Worth the price of admission alone!
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| Hello All,
I was fortunate enough to fish the MWC for the first time last year. Spring Valley was not anything I ever expected or enjoyed. But, if you want to play with the big boys, you have to pay. The main draw was two quality fisheries like Green Bay and Lake Winnebago. The MWC is a professionally run circuit with excellent anglers. If the snagged fish story is true, they will have to live with the fact that they had to cheat to win. We all need to sit back and realize the fact is that not every American is given the chance to be able to do what we can do. The ability to fish walleyes, saugers, or any other finned friend, is rewarding. I am very thankful to be able to fish! Please take a child out fishing and then think twice about getting riled up about any circuit or money or anything else that makes your life click. I personally would like to thank Christine, Talia, Dan, and Jeff for a great season. Please think before you type. We are all human beings and have feelings. Weather or not you can see us face to face. I look forward to a second great year in a premier circuit.
Thanks again,
Mike Rabetski
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| lil gloating from Rich S...... | |
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Location: Berlin | I am not sure what you mean. I am happy Spring Valley is the first stop next year if that is what you are talking about. I guess I would not call that gloating. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I think that you are all cousins!
There, I offended everyone at once..................... I got to go outside and check the ground, must be snow on the ground.
How da' heck did I end up getting slammed in this post? Some people's kids!
20 paces at Noon CT
Quick stop .................. go out and enjoy the weather before it's too late. | |
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| sunshine, can we do 10 paces, I don't want to have to take my shoes off. | |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | ok here we go again! will you guys take a chill pill. First of all, of course there are going to be a lot of unsuccessful tournament anglers .. remember 80% payout to 20% OF THE FIELD sorry there will always be 80% of the tournament fisherman JUDGED by many on this websight as unsuccessfull!!!!! i will tell you this though.. if i had a thousand dollar bill and i had a choice to pick a team that fished 5 years on the mwc to win a tournament on a nutral body of water AGIANSt THE WHOLE LOT OF WALLEYE FIRST HEAVY HITTER COMENTATIORS ! Im thinking the unsuccessfull mwc team would be a safe bet to win even if they finnished the last five years without making money. just because they have been unsuccesfull doesnt mean they arent good fisherman... if i were a pro-golfer and shot par rounds the whole pga season missed 3 fourths of the cuts and never cashed a real check... does that make me an unsuccessfull pro golfer even though i could kick the crap out of 99% of the self proclaimed good golfers on the golfers first web sight? so quick to judge are we at times.... everyone here that has ever fished an mwc event knows of the competion level! it is the tuffest competion you will find anywhere!!!!!!! in the walleye world.. spring valley , lake winnibago , the bay of green bay , mississippi river, YOU NAME IT! you better be on fish or you will be getting your @$$ handed to you !!!!!!!!!!!!! these teams with a few days to a week to pre fish will take your money and your big ego if you dont have your game on that day! UNSUCCESSFULL anglers????LOL what ever you say i guess... SURE 80% OF THE FIELD IS UNSUCCESSFUL!!!! ALL YEAR LONG.. LETS SEE YOU FINISH IN THE TOP 5 % ALL YEAR ! I THINK THATS WHERE YOU NEED TO BE TO COME OUT AHEAD! THEREFORE BEING A SUCCESSFULL YEAR! FOR MOST QUALIFYING FOR THE CHAMPIIONSHIP IS A GOOD FIRST GOAL. AFTER THAT ITS ALL GRAVY. | |
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | lol As long as you guys are trying to get things straight on all this......just for the record....I fished the FIRST MWC event in 1987, NOT 1988! lol So there.....now I've added my two cents to this fiasco.
If only we could be as big as other major league sports and have several million people a day get into discussions about our sport like this thread.
lol | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | What the......................
Now we have a GolfersFIRST web sight? Man, it's hard to keep up with you guys  | |
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| "If only we could be as big as other major league sports and have several million people a day get into discussions about our sport like this thread"
Walleye fishing obviously needs a steroid doping scandal...or an "accidental" on stage breast exposure...or big furry mascots like the Philly Fanatic. No wonder the PWT closed shop...it had NONE of those things. Get with the program people.
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | FINALLY! SOMEBODY THAT GETS IT!
Thumper's my man. | |
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| Normally, you'd have to pay for this:
Attachments
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 fanatic.jpg (4KB - 68 downloads)
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Location: Neenah, WI | The PWT did have a mascot but he was mis-understood and under rated. Here's lookin' at ya Jimmy Klick. | |
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| Dale,
Absolutely HILARIOUS. Jimmy Klick rocked!!!! He was an awesome stick and an over-the-top fun personality that the PWT and FLW tried to keep under wraps.
The speedos, the airbrush stage shirts. Just awesome!! | |
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | "mis-understood and under rated."
Very KEY words when defining how the marketing history has gone in competitive fishing.
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | There are 2 other words Steve, greed and self serving, comes to mind. | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Are we saying the model that was in place for Walleye Tournament Angling and competitive angling in general was created by greedy and self serving folks or fished by same? If so, I beg to differ. The entire history of the sport, going all the way back in angling annals to...wow, really old, really old...1987 reflects otherwise.
Devil's advocate here, but the event organizers created the venue the anglers operate within and offer them the very opportunity to play the game, as it is, critical observations on marketing aside. No event, no opportunity. SOMEONE has to foot the bill to get the thing going, and then justify that expense to owners, stockholders, etc. In the case of a major circuit, one had better have close to quarter mil on hand just to get things rolling, and that's PRE Sponsor dollars that will be spent. I'd bet $100,000 could be spent pretty quickly on a regional circuit, while up to a grand on a one day event once a year isn't out of the question. Big investment for an individual OR an organization, and it needs to pay off in the long run somehow. Now try to get live TV onsite. In fact, hire the video folks to shoot and produce a TV show, and pay the money to air each episode to a cable outfit, perishing the very thought of national TV on one of the majors. Expensive.
Now, go find sponsors to pay for all of this, get enough money put together to survive, and pay the salaries of the folks working for the circuit. Tough sledding, that, even in good times. That's why most events have the anglers fishing for their own money, and most times just a portion of it. I think what Mr. Fellegy is encouraging isn't a reorganization of who or how tournaments are funded and run, but how they are marketed to and COVERED by the media; all media, so that the Pros and the sponsors get their investment in the sport returned in a more productive manner for all. It's tough to 'cover' yourself;witness the two circuits that are print media based with supplemental certainly not live cable TV coverage. It's difficult to offer all sides, be open, unbiased and even critical of your own business to the general fan base, not to mention contrary to basic human nature. That's why the 'media' is so often disliked by major sports teams, even though without said 'media', the team wouldn't be out in front of the fans.
This is a tough game in a limited market with limited opportunity, but is still pretty darn cool for those who take part, the fans, and the media. Yes, it can and should be 'done better', and that's happening now, I think. Stand by, and root for the economy to get back on track. | |
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| I'm rooting for it Steve.
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | Mr. Worral is "Devils advocate" here? I'll be an Angel then! lol
How's this.....Anyone can create "opportunity" with huge amounts of money/sponsors. BUT!!! Remember and respect the fact...the ANGLERS invest MORE $$ into each event--without any direct return and with a much bigger gamble than the event organizers/sponsors. EVERYONE that works at creating the events, and works at them etc. in key positions, get paid directly. ALL sponsor reps have expenses/mileage and salaries paid for their appearances at every event. No gamble. Even the guy bumping the fish at the high level tour events gets rooms/meals etc. paid for--historically. So be careful when you speak to who puts these events/tours on. BOTH sides of the fence invest heavily!!! BOTH could not exist without the other--NO DOUBT! But both do NOT get paid equally or anything close per their investment.
Mr. Worral is right about Fellegy. Fellegy wants a whole NEW CULTURE created on how competitive fishing is covered/marketed. Thus...creating fans that will become consumers.
I watched 15 hours of football and baseball last weekend and listened to/read ALL the reports after all of the games. And NEVER heard a commentator nor a player speak to any ball company or shoe compnay or glove company or jock strap company! And all the while, people became fans...and Wilson/Rawlings/Nike etc. got plenty of consumers in the process. Go figure.....
FANS! What makes fans? Answer THAT....and $$ go WAAAY up in competitive fishing ranks. To the industry and the anglers. The answer is and has been in front of everyone from the beginning.
Edited by Steve Fellegy 10/29/2008 6:09 PM
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Location: Rhinelander | If anyone can, 'anyone' should have, but didn't. In the last thirty years only three did successfully, and one was a team format. Looks like AIM is about to break that mold. We are on the same 'side', Steve, I'm just pointing out another viewpoint...or two.
Correction on one comment, not all sponsor reps are paid expenses and a salary, some of us are independent reps. More of us than some think.
Football and Baseball are team sports. The team is owned by a wealthy person or group; in a few cases by larger groups. They buy the best talent they can out of organized College sports ( FLW Collegiate Bass?) with the money invested to compete against the teams put together by other wealthy people. Players are basically contract employees. HUGE money is spent on PR, and the Games are played in huge stadiums that can be not that full at times. That is a model that that isn't going to work in Pro Fishing unless it becomes a 40 man roster team sport and it's figured out how to get the action in front of the fans while it's happening. Instead of speaking about the products they endorse on camera at the event, the top Pros do so in TV and magazine commercials. They can't during a game, they are paid by the owners to play, not speak. Speaking about endorsements happens off the clock, and in some cases for millions. No one even cares much what undies an MWC angler wears, anyway, and no Walleye tournament so far has ever been presented live enough to compete with the Games on any media.
I believe I said the Pros are, as a result of the model in play, fishing for a portion of their own money; the losers donate their dollars to the winners. As of late, a relatively new concept adds the goal of winning the more serious contingencies paid out for a good finish or win...a good idea that needs to be expanded, yet still rife with arguments for and against-money to the anglers based on what product they run and their performance at the end of the day.
They built it...and the Anglers came.
Chris Rock said it onstage, paraphrasing here: Shaq is RICH. The guy who signs his check is WEALTHY.
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| So then, the bottom-line here is the entire structure of how tournaments are run and promoted need to be changed so both anglers, tournament orgs and sponsors can all benefit, similarly to the PGA, MLB or NFL.They need to no longer primarily benefit only the tournament orgs running them.
The Chris Rock quote is excellent.
Now, how do we get those competing in high-level tournament angling to the Rich level and the Tournament orgs to the Wealthy level?
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| This is probably going to come off as babble, but I wanted to throw my 2 cents. First off, thanks to the MWC for coming "west". I hope that enough anglers fish the West Division so it'll be around for a long time to come. As someone from North Dakota, we've had too many fly by night organizations come through and leave bad tastes in our mouths.
Here's some of my thoughts on professionalism of the sport, etc.
Without a true feeder system, ie. college or minors, fishing doesn't leave you with that iconic sense. Here's what I mean.....Take the 60th ranked PGA golfer. I know there's no way I could compete with him in golf, ever. My best friend is a scratch golfer, and in no way could he compete. He wins local tournaments, etc. But he looks up to those guys cause of the immense talent they have and how they've went thru what they have to become professionals. I'm not saying that the Professional Walleye Fisherman don't have immense talent, cause THEY DO. In fact, as a huge tournament fan, some of them leave ME with an iconic feeling. But, there are far too many that aren't qualified. I'm sorry but that's the fact. They may be quality anglers, but they're not far and away better than a good recreational angler.
When I watch a BASS tournament, I feel more blown away. Is that because I don't fish bass? Maybe.
I hope AIM succeeds. I'm hoping they create a platform for walleye anglers to make money and create a buzz for the anglers fishing them. In my opinion, it's finally in the anglers hands. But as anglers, they need to make the right decisions to not only help themselves, but help the group as a whole. There's been talk of feeder leagues, and I can't wait. I hope they get it to that point.
I'm thankfull for the FLW and giving fisherman a platform, but it's the WRONG business model for a full time professional walleye angler. And of course, that's my opinion. And I know there are some doing it through the FLW. I'm not trying to start a blank vs. FLW. Because, once again, the FLW stepped up and gave people a place and platform to fish tournaments.
Thanks again to the MWC, and to all....good fishing.
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Excellent post Corey. I agree with everything you posted.
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| Corey is right.
Without a "minor league" like what the MLB, NHL, PGA and NASCAR have or the college structure that NFL and the NBA can draw from there are no true ways to qualify in walleye fishing. Plunk the dough down and you are in if there are openings.
BASS has a qualifying system called the Opens. You can't get to the BASS Elite Series, where Kevin VanDam, Skeet Reese and Rick Clunn compete, unless you qualify through the Opens or retain your qualification by stayin in, I believe, the top 80 spots.
The FLW doesn't have a true qualification system in place anywhere. They have a priority status system from their lower level competitions, but you can still plunk your dough down and compete if there are openings and in 2009 if you are willing to fish all of the qualifiers.
Edited by Fishing Fanatics 10/30/2008 2:12 PM
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Location: Rhinelander | Top shelf Pros competing against Top shelf Pros. The PWT Super Pro was the first real attempt to get on track with that concept in the Walleye World. It lasted a year.
Ask yourself, if you are a fan of any sport...why? What draws you to the sport, why do you watch it on TV, and yell at the screen when things go well or not so well as if the Team can hear you? What makes you diss the fans of other teams, what makes you go the the bar with buddies and watch 'the game'? Why do you wear a hat with the Team logo? How about NASCAR fans? Would you even THINK of wearing a hat that had a Walleye Pro's name and image on the front?
Is the MWC a 'Minor League' of sorts? It certainly used to be, at one point, IMHO. Is the FLW League exactly what it's title insinuates? Is the new College Bass circuit FLW is undertaking part of a plan to do some of what's been suggested here?
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| Steve W.,
I'd say no to that.
The FLW League isn't a minor league since anyone can pay to play in the FLW.
The FLW College deal certainly isn't that. It's a college version of their current business model. Cool stuff, but no minor league or traditional college skill development.
The MWC isn't a minor league since doing well there doesn't qualify you up the ladder like a true minor league. A testing ground yes, but not a minor league.
BASS' Opens are the only trail currently in existence that you have to fish to qualify for their next level, the BASS Elite Series.
A true minor league walleye trail that is necessary to fish to move up to the tour level is ideal partnered with a tour level pro series that you need to maintain a top 75, or whatever arbitrary number thats decided, to stay qualified to be in the series. If you don't stay qualified you have a chance to re-qualify in the minor leagues.
Not sure the interest is there right now, but boy oh boy it would sure create a high level of credibility. | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Answer as best as one can the Fan questions and we identify some issues, I'd think.
Think current reality, how one proves oneself in this game, and answer that question again. What 'could' be wasn't the question, at least not yet. Think in terms of what the Pros have available to them RIGHT NOW.
Your last paragraph hits it dead center IMHO. | |
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| I agree Steve.
I was speaking of what needs to happen, but its of course theory right now. Except for the BASS tournaments where you do need to qualify to move up the ladder.
You are correct regarding the present day reality.
Edited by Fishing Fanatics 10/31/2008 8:23 AM
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Location: Rhinelander | Here's the challenge with that theory right now as I see it. There are about 120 Pros across the country willing and able to fish an FLW or AIM Circuit next year, and maybe 6 or 8 willing and able to fish both. There were many FLW League events with fewer than 3/4 a full field, so that 'pool' is not huge either.
Let's say one needs to qualify in the top 20 overall in the Minors to 'qualify' to join a Major. If that is the intent of the League or MWC or whatever AIM comes up with in the future, the qualifiers will probably number in the single digits who make the crossover because of:
Travel
Entry Fees
Expenses while there running 45 miles a day, one way, in the rig
etc.
I spoke to a League angler this week who said he spent about 10K this year fishing the Leagues. Triple that for a shot at the 'Bigs'. So in order to 'break even' covering JUST out of pocket, one needs to cash a check pretty regular. Making the grade in the Minors will not get you into the Majors, because one must foot the entire or at least most of the bill to get there.
Right back to the money, backwards from there to sponsors, backwards from there to the Impressions the Sponsors get from the Fans. The focus has been on the Owners for a very long time, and that is changing. That's a good thing! PTW was In Fish. They already HAVE a fan base, subscriptions are sold to them. The focus was:
In Fisherman Professional Walleye Trail
That's what the trail was for, a promotional vehicle for In Fish, and a darned good one for a number of years. Sure, the Pros got the camera, but the TV shows were aired months later, after the 'Fans' already knew who won.
The website was about the leader board, and the PWT.
So where, exactly is the aspiring Walleye Tournament Fan to go to get their information, videos, and coverage of the PROS live and right now as they do for every major sport in the world?
I asked the question as to why one might be a Fan of a football team. If that team was made up of players who 'qualified' in a minor league on their own dime, and then paid to play in the Majors, played in areas where there are few Fans many times, and aired the TV coverage a month, or even longer after the event, how many of you would be all fired up about THAT?
As Dave and others have said, this is already in a state of flux, but arguing over who is a 'qualified Pro' and who isn't at this point is moot--if you fish, and you cash checks alot, you will have fans who are not acquaintances. If you have the fans, market yourself well, and acquire sponsors who you perform for excelling expectations, you will be a 'top gun' qualifier in the minds of the fans. If you fish 'well', excel at your PR game, and have a unique angle on your marketing, you can still make it and not be in the money all the time. Stacker said this is a business for many of the Pros and he hit it dead center, and that-IMHO-is the difference between those who make it and those who do not. If one is good at operating that business and good at catching more walleyes than 75% of the rest of the field, one will cash checks and get attention from the Media, and therefore, the Fans. If either of those components are missing, the angler is destined to be one of Dave's 'hobbyists', a fine thing if that angler is doing what he wants when he wants and can afford to enjoy the experience fishing against those Top Guns.
We NEED more and better Media coverage that is high tech and LIVE. We NEED more fans. We NEED a system that supports the very coverage you folks are demanding, that ain't cheap either. We need to develop Fans in their late teens and early twenties, and we need to be delighted they are willing to pay attention and participate, and avoid running them off because we old dust farting originals in the sport think they are whippersnappers. That's a big demographic and has huge buying power, which, by the way, sponsors kinda look for. We NEED to stop the skid in fishing participation at ALL levels, and get folks back on the water and off the Barcolounger. That means dragging in the youth of this country.kicking and screaming all the way if needs be, and the folks who seem to find input from the new, young corps of future pros something to take pot shots at need to push their chairs back and think about it. No young Fans and anglers, and this sport is dead.
Get the exposure for the sponsors they are looking for, and they will come, bringing the money with them, for the Pros and the Media.
If the sport grows as it might, I'd wear a Tommy Skarlis shirt to the barbecue, hell yes.
What this has to do with the original topic, I have no idea.
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| Everything you said is true but to generate the fan base (your single most relavent point IMO) you have to win them over with something other than big fish on a stage! You have to eliminate the animosity and jealousy amoungst ALL anglers and you have to have rules that make it a fair chase competition, with unbiased directors willing to stand up for the acquisations of others! None of this has anything to do with the orig. thread. | |
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Location: Rhinelander | What? You lost me there. | |
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| I'll throw out my experience as an FLW League angler from 2007 as some fodder. I fished all three WI League tournaments, cashed a check in all three, and won a total of $3,138. I finished in second place overall after the three events, and brought in the most total weight. Subtract the $900 I paid in entry fees, divide the rest by four (I fished the Championship also), and you get $559.50 winnings per tournament, which was breaking even. Honestly, I was happy with my season (aside from bombing at the Championship), but realistically, it would be difficult for me to duplicate those results. Add in using all my vacation days prefishing, time away from the family, and while I thoroughly enjoyed it, it wasn't a sound financial decision to fish it in 2008 (especially with the shedule changes). Like a lot of League guys, I have no sponsors (although I did get a free Drop-n-Stay), so I footed the bill myself.
I don't know what the answer is to make it more viable, but I think it starts with the TV shows. That's where you reach the most people by far. I couldn't care less about bass fishing, but I can sit and watch a tournament show. Why? Because they show details (locations, lures, etc.) and they get into the strategy of it all better than the walleye shows. I don't think having "qualified" anglers will make one lick of difference in this sport. That is not the reason bass is bigger and more successful.
Edited by thumper 11/3/2008 8:03 AM
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Location: Menasha, WI | although I did get a free Drop-n-Stay LOL | |
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| Viking - 11/3/2008 9:59 AM
although I did get a free Drop-n-Stay LOL
The only bad part is in return, I'm contractually obligated to mention Drop-n-Stay in every post or conversation I have now. And if I want a second one, I have to legally change the names of my daughters to Drop and Stay. | |
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | Mr. Obvious said this: "None of this has anything to do with the orig. thread."
He's SO RIGHT! And the Thread has been here with 4 pages of posts for a month. WHY?
Because the chatter, banter and whatever is "human interest" type stuff! Not about jig size or line diameter or how a glass boat is better riding than a tin boat. It's in principle, the SAME type/form of coverage you hear 24/7 on SportCenter. It's about the lives of the anglers and the sport behind the scenes--good bad and ugly--it's "human interest" stuff. It's Major League stuff....
Now--if you can take this stuff to the water cooler conversations at work--eventually you automatically grow the sport/ad $$ waaaaay beyond fishermen. "Human Interest"?? Maybe a "soap opera" or a "serial"? AND!! Just maybe, the "lady next door" will become a fan, for the SAME reasons she is an NFL fan and NASCAR fan. Go figure....
Edited by Steve Fellegy 11/3/2008 6:26 PM
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