|
|
Member
Posts: 1188
Location: Chicago IL. | Let me throw this out there. How many think walleye tourneys should ban live bait. I know it will end alot of this mess about traveling across state lines with live bait in your truck. Dont mean to start a fight but Linder has a point. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 82
| In my opinion, if the walleye world wants to be more like the bass world they have to eliminate trolling. And make the pro's cast and/or jig with artificial baits. Most recreational fishermen look at a walleye pro with all the tackle in the world trolling with inlines, mast riggers, dipsy and such...just don't or can't relate.
Now, will that hurt the compitition...of course. The numbers will be down of fish weighed, locations will be all but obsolete without it. But, every Tom, Dick and Harry can pitch a jig and try to catch fish. The first thing you think about when talking about fishing is the casting.
IMHO, live bait will not be eliminated, and neither will trolling. The question is, why does the walleye world have to be or compete against the Bass world. Everyday fishermen use natural bait almost everytime they go fishing.
Edited by saugers2 1/19/2009 4:46 PM
| |
| | |
Member
Posts: 794
Location: Elgin, Illinois | 1) Why would we want to be like the bass folks... That would be regressive evolution...LOL
2) It is the vast variety of specialized techniques that do fascinate many (me included) fishermen. But, it can be done, and is done, by many average fishermen... Just spend a day or two on Winnebago or Green Bay when there isn't a tournament in town. There are still lots of boats and fishermen.
3) Live bait is just another choice. Just ask John Mannerino how fond he really is (NOT) of willow cats... That issue alone should not dictate a choice of presentations appropriate or not for tournaments. Bass have always been pursued with artificials more than with live bait (at lkeast in the last 30 yeears or so) and it was not from anyone emulating tournaments. Artificials were/are preferable becauise you can fish faster and cover more water.
4) Now, would artificial only tournaments have a positive or negative impact? I honestly don't know. Some experimentation needs to take place and some honest assessments need to be done. I tend to think "right place, right time" will have no negative impact. "Wrong place, wrong time", and the fishermen will be having a door prize drawing for the money with no fish caught.
5) I now tend to use more GULP crawlers trolling on harnesses than lkive crawlers. So, I am moving away from live bait in one scenario. But, what do I know. I haven't really tried the minnows or leeches yet. So, might be as the number of successful artificials increase for use by walleye fishermen, live bait may go extinct for tournament purposes by choice. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 1188
Location: Chicago IL. | I was not comparing the walleye world against the bass. Dont know to many bass guys trolling cranks or harnesses in the weeds in 3ft of water. Way different!!! Every recreational fisherman I see out on the great lakes is trolling, I dont see why it is just pro thing. I`m just talking about all the new laws in the last few years about live bait across state lines. Greg, my thumb is starting to hurt again thinking about it!!!! | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 82
| Yeah John, I was reading in to it too much. I had just read the article on Linder talking about trying to emulate BASS.
The issue with live bait across state lines is a disaster, I always hated on having to worry about the selection at local shops when out of town. I always prefered to have my bait ahead of time and then I don't have to worry.
Devils Advocate: How long before somebody requests testing on another competitors bait? | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 3899
| I think they will get there, banning live bait. Look, it's in the best interest of the sponsors of the tournaments. Name me one live bait sponsor. Then there is all the lure and artificial bait manufactures. Rapala, Berkley, mann's, etc. You won't see a ban on trolling, andy more than you'll see a ban on GPS or Sonars. It's too ingrained, and besides, a great portion of trolling is already done with artificials, and as HG says, more are turning to artificail crawlers for the spinning rigs. Could you see a tourney on Green Bay without trolling? | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 82
| lol...no I couldn't.
But for the most part, I don't want to watch a TV show with guys trolling either, and I am a pretty serious angler, I just prefer to watch guys casting or at least having a rod in their hands during filming. And that is the point I think Al Linder was trying to make, it seemed he wanted the walleye world to be a draw similar to the Bass world.
If you eliminate live bait, you will in effect turn most tournaments into trolling events. You will see the "odd" location where the guys are pitching jigs or vertical jigging, but that will be rare. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 744
| I pull 1/8 oz. jigs and crawlers behind planer boards all the time so I guess I am really screwed.
| |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | I agree, there is no way to make trolling exciting to watch on TV. I don't think that is possible but I guaruntee you it would help. If I had to pick one thing that makes bass fishing more exciting to watch then walleye fishing it is the hook set. Can you imagine a televised event that is nothing but Jigging for huge walleyes in shallow water where you have to give them 10 or more seconds. To have that 10 seconds on video would be heart stopping excitement especially if the angler played it up like say Skarlis would.
It seems like the sport is going more to trolling. There is a good reason for this but I like to watch trolling on TV as much as I like to troll myself. Lets put it this way, I would rather stay home and watch bass fishing on TV then go trolling even when the bite is hot. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 1656
| "Most recreational fishermen look at a walleye pro with all the tackle in the world trolling with inlines, mast riggers, dipsy and such...just don't or can't relate. "
Saugers2, I think you touched on something from outside perspective of walleye fishing. The average angler most liely will not own 6 trolling rods, boards, rod holders...etc etc. It's boring to watch as a fan.
Casting and Jigging is something any person can do, even from shore, and catch fish there is the "action" of doing something to catch the fish. It is a form a of fishing that any average fisherman or kid can do, to get started.
I would favor a no trolling tournament, sure trolling is an effective way to catch fish, but so are commercial fish nets and tournaments don't allow them...yet.
Reality of it is, most guys who fish, don't care what the fan sees when it actually does come to fishing, if they are trollers then they will troll and that is a large percentage of the playing field.
and Shep, back in the day, there were once guys that fished GB other than trolling, offshore boards haven't been around as long as the jig or the bobber.  | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | Shep - 1/20/2009 8:36 AM
I think they will get there, banning live bait. Look, it's in the best interest of the sponsors of the tournaments. Name me one live bait sponsor. Then there is all the lure and artificial bait manufactures. Rapala, Berkley, mann's, etc. You won't see a ban on trolling, andy more than you'll see a ban on GPS or Sonars. It's too ingrained, and besides, a great portion of trolling is already done with artificials, and as HG says, more are turning to artificail crawlers for the spinning rigs. Could you see a tourney on Green Bay without trolling?
I see your point Shep BUT just like there are "madatory trolling" locations there are also "mandatory live bait" locations. OK, maybe not mandatory but close to it with a tough bite. Banning live bait might help with sponsors but I don't think it will do anything but hurt the excitement of the TV coverage unless you are VERY selective on locations.
If you want to double the percentage of guys trolling, ban live bait. I truly hope that never happens. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Yep, gotta say that some changes in the walleye world will keep things exciting, I just aint ready for this one. Nor do I think it would increase the fan base. I cannot see this as anything more than a ploy for big business to mandate the purchase of goods to compete. I cannot see how this will increase the sport. I cannot see how it will bring more people to walleye fishing. I cannot see how it would be better for the fishes. The only people I can see this being good for is the people who get to line there pockets with the money spent on the product. If I enjoyed casting I would fish for (Gasp) Bass. I enjoying using my boat as a tool to deliver the bait. I think we are all worm diggers and we enjoy the smell of minnows and black rings under our nails. Well, I do anyhow. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 3899
| Jayman - 1/20/2009 9:16 AM
"Most recreational fishermen look at a walleye pro with all the tackle in the world trolling with inlines, mast riggers, dipsy and such...just don't or can't relate. "
Saugers2, I think you touched on something from outside perspective of walleye fishing. The average angler most liely will not own 6 trolling rods, boards, rod holders...etc etc. It's boring to watch as a fan.
Casting and Jigging is something any person can do, even from shore, and catch fish there is the "action" of doing something to catch the fish. It is a form a of fishing that any average fisherman or kid can do, to get started.
I would favor a no trolling tournament, sure trolling is an effective way to catch fish, but so are commercial fish nets and tournaments don't allow them...yet.
Reality of it is, most guys who fish, don't care what the fan sees when it actually does come to fishing, if they are trollers then they will troll and that is a large percentage of the playing field.
and Shep, back in the day, there were once guys that fished GB other than trolling, offshore boards haven't been around as long as the jig or the bobber. :)
Yup, and I was one of those guys that fished there before planer boards became the hot item. Long lined crankbaits, and drifted bottom bounced store bought spinner rigs back then. Lots of fish caught, but not nearly the size we catch now. I don't think I ever caught a 10 out there untill I started planer board trolling. I think that was somewhere around 93 or 94 when I got my first 2 planer boards.
If you were to ban trolling for a tourney, would drifting also be banned? Cuz there's days that you can troll by wind and wave power just as effectively. Now that would enter into the strategy. Ban powered trolling, either by gas or electric motor. How do I plan to fish today? What's the wind speed and direction?
But I could see a tourney not allowing trolling. Maybe the way to reduce the numbers of trollers would be to allow only 1 rod and 1 lure per angler? And ban livebait?
You're right. I'm an average walleye angler, and I don't own 6 boards and rod/reels. I got 18 boards, and at least 16 rod/reel combos for trolling. 8 for planer boards, 4 segmented lead, a couple full, several fireline rigs, etc. I got way too much stuff! hehehe
Edited by Shep 1/20/2009 10:34 AM
| |
| | |
| This topic was already beat to death last August. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 3899
| Except last August, we didn't have Al Lindner calling for live bait only. And that brings a new voice into the discussion today.
Do you have an issue with this current discussion? If so, it's alot like TV. Use the remote, and don't tune in to this channel.
And Rich, I'm not saying it will help WITH sponsors. I am saying it will help the artificial bait makers. And, do you think that if you eliminate live bait, and the new plastics like Gulp, PowerBait, and the others would not be used by guys like you, and you'd switch to trolling cranks?
I think live bait is a great way to catch walleyes, don't get me wrong. But a tourney ban would result in the faster developement of new products, and tactics. You are going to see guys like Skarlis, Gofron, the Keenan's, Jim Hughes, KK, GP, you, and the rest of the innovative guys develope new systems for catching big walleyes. Take away one thing, and they'll adapt and overcome.
Edited by Shep 1/20/2009 10:45 AM
| |
| | |
Member
Posts: 1406
| John, as for the border crossing, banning live bait would be a good thing for sure, I didn't read Al's article, could he have been referencing invasives as well as survival? I believe one of the key reasons the Bass world banned live bait use was for the survival impact. Bass are more aggressive than a walleye are they not? Live bait ment deeper hooked fish and more mortality. At least at the time the Bass world made the change that was one of the main reasons they cited.
Those spring events on the wolf would still be there and they would adapt. Most serious walleye anglers I know are concerned about the survival of their fish but they still have a long way to go compared to that of many Bass guys I know. (man, their eyes swell up if they kill a fish) If AIM is successful, fish on stage will become a thing of the past and the tools are constantly changing if tourneys banned live bait fishermen will adapt as we always have. There are dozens and probably hundreds of lakes that you can't use live bait on now!
Good Luck
Tyee | |
| | |
| The reason that bass tournaments banned live bait was because live bait fishing tends to result in fish that are hooked deeper and increased mortality. As we all know, bass fishermen tend to fish for the "sport" of it a bit more than walleye anglers (as walleye anglers tend to be looking for a meal). Because the average bass guy wants to release his catch, getting rid of live bait in tournaments (ie., decreasing hook mortality) was viewed as a positive move as it decreased tournament mortality AND gave all bass anglers something they wanted - a way to catch more bass without killing more bass.
Would the same result occur with walleye anglers? Perhaps, but probably not for the same reasons. Eliminating live bait MAY decrease hooking mortality, but if the fish is destined for the table, I don't see how that is going to make the transition to most walleye anglers. If the move increases the amount of money sponsors are willing to give to tournaments and to promote walleye fishing in general, then I could see a positive benefit.
Bass angling is more popular because bass are found more places and they are a lot easier to catch. When we find a way to make walleye grow in every back yard pond, impoundment, lake, stream, and bayou across the country, we'll find a way to make walleye fishing more popular. Until then, hoping for the walleye tournament angler to reach the status of the bass counterparts looks like crawlers left out in the sun too long... not very good.
Personally, I would support a move to eliminate live bait in some tournaments, especially those where such live bait methods would likely lead to higher hook mortality. Maybe we could get a special exemption for waxworms - I would hate to see a nice guy like Rich lose this go-to bait. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | Shep, here is my take on it and how it would effect me on the Winnebago system.
Could I still catch fish on gulp etc.? Sure but not nearly as many or as big. Now I am sure some will disagree but I can tell you this, I have NEVER caught more on artificials fishing the way I do on this system. Now take my live bait away and sure I can still catch some fish but not enough to make me competitive against the trollers. Now I don't mind trolling once in a while but if I had to troll in every tournament, I would quit tournament fishing in a heartbeat.
I am not trying to take anything away from the trollers. There is a tremendous amount of skill in what you do. It is just not for me.
As for drifting if trolling was banned, I say as long as planer boards are not used, have at 'er. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 82
| drifting... *cough* em, yeah, ah, dragging is allowed in BASS tournaments.
If live bait is banned, better than 3/4's of the field will troll even on classic rigging, jigging or bobber locations. From my point of view, I can't handle watching footage of trolling. As a walleye fisherman, I can say honestly that most walleye fight like a wet paper bag anyway, add to that a boat going 1.4 mph or more.
If TV action is wanted, they need casting, hookset and fighting fish at the boat. IMHO
Now, that said...are walleye tournaments broke? Not in my mind, I am just responding to the question at hand which was actually based on the border issues with bait. I redirected this towards the talk of banning live bait for the betterment of walleye tournaments as discussed by Al Linder.
I love watching Linder and his pals catching hog walleye on Lindy Rigs with either Gulp or live bait....showing me the structure, the rig and the fish on an underwater camera.....the bite, the buildup by Al and eventually the hookset and the fight. Sure they are trolling with the electric, no matter its slow, precise and done with rigs everybody that has a fishing rod can tie on. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 1656
| Gulp
Flicker Shad
Slow Death Hooks
Frabill
What is going to be the next well promoted product? I don't see live bait disappearing. Although the great crawler scandal of 2009.....you heard it hear first! | |
| | |
| Too bad you still got that attitude Shep.
I don't care if Tony Dean comes back from the dead as a new voice, these still are the same arguements.
"Render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's and unto God what is God's. Which in this case simply means too each his own and let it be, why does it have to be all one or another. If you can beat a guy using live bait then fish that way and if you can't then well maybe next time you'll change up. If fish numbers are so fickle that we're so worried about mortality then we shouldn't have so many tournaments.
Now if a specific sponser wants to run their own artificial circuit and pony up all the money good for them, but pushing mandates for all tourneys is not going to help the sport and will limit catches. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 3899
| Are they trolling? Or position fishing?
Ohh, now that is a whole 'nother can o' worms! | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 3899
| What attitude? Your point is that this has already been discussed. If that is a problem, then just don't open this thread and read it! Or post that this has already been discussed.
I never said I am in favor one way or the other. I did say that I think it will happen. Far from supporting it.
And who is calling for a mandate on all tournaments to ban live bait? When I'm discussing it, I am hypothetically talking about a series banning live bait. Not all of them, and I have not singled out any particular one. And where did I ever mention mortality?
This will be my last response to you.
Edited by Shep 1/20/2009 4:14 PM
| |
| | |
| OK Shep; This topic was posted by Jim O last August. It was 3 pages worth and is a really good read. I suggest everyone look it up! | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2567
Location: Manitowoc, WI | Any talk or thought of banning trolling in walleye tournaments is just stupid talk. The backbone of tournament walleye fishing IS trolling. Without trolling you wouldn't have any walleye circuits......enough said!!!! | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 319
| Would banning live bait hurt the tournaments or leave them un-changed? | |
| | |
Location: Rhinelander | I think over the long haul Artificial only Walleye tournaments would be quite popular. I know the Can/Am on the Goon was well received. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I agree with CT. I see no new ideas here. We exhausted the dialogue earlier and even beat each other up. I’m too thin skinned and hurt easily so I will not try to explain the value of artificial only tournaments again. I believe that this is one of those concepts that most people reject the first time they hear it but the idea will grow on most people over time.
Funny, some of the same people who scream that walleye tournaments need to change to survive (even go as far as to say we should be more like BASS) are the same people rejecting the concept of artificial only.
We may all have to leave our comfort zones from time to time for walleye tournaments to evolve as they should.
Here are the previous links to this discussion. Maybe we should just number your objections from before to save you time. That way you can just respond with a number. Jerry can say: " NO your wrong Sunshine, #28". Stacker can chime in and scream: "#99, #99 ........... Sunshine you are an idiot" It'll save us all some time in the long run.
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11970&start=1&posts=24&highlight=artificial+only&highlightmode=1
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11957&start=1&highlight=artificial+only&highlightmode=1
| |
| | |
Member
Posts: 1656
| "Any talk or thought of banning trolling in walleye tournaments is just stupid talk. The backbone of tournament walleye fishing IS trolling."
I disagree, I also think that is as narrow of view as being opposed to an artificial only tournament. While it is the featured technique of the majority of the field. It is not the only way to fish, from a television/appeal to the fan base point of view, it is very boring to watch.
Perhaps we should have an artifical only get together with a bunch of WF'ers just to see how it goes? | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 3899
| CT - 1/20/2009 4:38 PM
OK Shep; This topic was posted by Jim O last August. It was 3 pages worth and is a really good read. I suggest everyone look it up!
Took your advice, and revisited that thread back in August. Good points made on both sides. Please notice I didn't get my say in that thread. I must have been busy fishing on Green Bay. And probably using real crawlers.
To respond to the statement that there is nothing new here? Well, actually there is. Aside from my insightful additions, there is Al Lindners address to the NPAA that is new. And that adds a certain amount of credibility to this discussion, right now.
I am not one that is pushing for or against a live bait ban in walleye tourneys. And I seriously doubt ANY state DNR would mandate such a ban. So the only question left is would any of the large circuits, AIM, FLW, or MWC ever begin limiting the use of live bait. IMO, I think, yes, eventually, one of them, more likely AIM and/or FLW will. As I have said many times, the Pro Tourneys are all about money. Nothing else. There is virually no money coming from live bait dealers into these tourneys, but there is from the artificials, with the potential for much more. And that is the reason I see eventually one or more circuits going to artificials only. Keep you eye on the ball. It's all about the money.
And here's a pic for Capt Dan!
I don't see smaller tourneys going all artificial. Bar tourneys, and smaller circuits like MWS, WAT, IWT, or perhaps even the FLW League, I think, would remain open. Just not enough money involved there by Artificial bait makers to justify it.
I think the arguement that the viewing public cares one way or the other is way overstated. I don't think it would effect the numbers of fans in the least.
Attachments
----------------
 gobbled it.jpg (31KB - 135 downloads)
| |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2567
Location: Manitowoc, WI | "...I disagree, I also think that is as narrow of view as being opposed to an artificial only tournament. While it is the featured technique of the majority of the field. It is not the only way to fish, from a television/appeal to the fan base point of view, it is very boring to watch..."
LOL......WHATEVER JAYMAN!!!!! If you think a group of clowns drifting over a school of fish with jigs or live bait is exciting versus watching someone catch big fish pulling spinners or cranks out on the Great Lakes, then so be it!!! What a waste of time this is.....I'm out!!! | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 1656
| You're exactly right, Jerry. Walleyes are boring to catch. Brad makes a good point, if they weren't tasty they'd be right up there with carp. Errrr wait, carp put up a better fight than walleyes.
So in a nutshell, we have people that wouldn't fish a tournement if they could not use live bait, lack of confidence. And we have people who would not fish a tournament if they can not troll, again lack of confidence. And we have another group that says something needs to be done differently to grow the sport, grow the fan base, and make it better all they way around.
I don't see any of it happening anytime soon. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 319
| My experience has been walleye are just as hard to catch with live bait as artificial. Spend any time during the run where there are guys on the bridge fishing with live and a lot of the boats are artificial....the catches seem to be the same, live catch some and artificial catch some.
The walleye tournaments will never be like the bass so take that out of the equation and what you have left is the perception to the public. The public does not care what type of bait is used, they voice up when seeing dead fish floating after a tournament not that Joe used live bait and that's not fair to the fish being tricked like that.
Going artificial for some tournaments would defiantly put a layer of competitiveness to the sport, take out the use of fish finders and then you have total competition.
| |
| | |
| Shep, I agree with 90% of your comments, (ok, get back up I know you fell over).
Your right, Lindners comments add to this, and maybe not intended to be but I think were not helpful and inflamatory. One could guess he's helping promote AIM and at the same time certainly he is commercialized, maybe not intentional but he is biased, bought and paid for by the industry bigs.
Maybe AIM will prove me wrong but I think the "joe the plumber" public want to see the fish on stage, and tourneys will really have to specifically target certain waters at certain times to get those big exciting catches. Who is going to fish a mid May GreenBay tourney with no trolling and no artificial. Yeah yeah I know some fish could still be caught but not near as many. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | jerry - 1/21/2009 12:06 PM
"...I disagree, I also think that is as narrow of view as being opposed to an artificial only tournament. While it is the featured technique of the majority of the field. It is not the only way to fish, from a television/appeal to the fan base point of view, it is very boring to watch..."
LOL......WHATEVER JAYMAN!!!!! If you think a group of clowns drifting over a school of fish with jigs or live bait is exciting versus watching someone catch big fish pulling spinners or cranks out on the Great Lakes, then so be it!!! What a waste of time this is.....I'm out!!!
Hey, tell us how you really feel I would sure find drift fishing boring to watch but I would rather go bass fishing then watch some fat guy eating a bag of potato chips while he is "hardcore" trolling for walleyes.. Different strokes for different folks I guess. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 219
| You gotta problem with potato chips? or fat guys? | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2567
Location: Manitowoc, WI | ".....Hey, tell us how you really feel I would sure find drift fishing boring to watch but I would rather go bass fishing then watch some fat guy eating a bag of potato chips while he is "hardcore" trolling for walleyes.. Different strokes for different folks I guess...."
Obviously you aren't talking about me, as I am a pretzel man, not a chips fan........LOL!!!! | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | lol, too funny Jerry | |
| | |
| i still dont understand why there is an argument? walleyes are tricky to pattern and catch... i have spend many years as most of us on this sight have trying to catch these buggers on a consistant basis... what i have found out is this... ITs HARD! tournaments have been won by pulling crawlers behind boards and guys pulling cranks got a beating... the next week the guys pulling harnesses got killed because the fish wanted a fast mover with a rattle not a thump... the next week it rains all pre fishing the water gets dirty and the clear water trolling bite is gone.. the rocks are productive with some wind and a slip bobber or a crawler on a jig... Trollers pick off a few shallow but have a hard time .. but the jig fisherman bring in the meat! live bait , crank baits in the stumps and rocks, and gulp all cost money! None are cheep! let the boys figure out what they want to do and let them alone! bass fishing was never a live bait thing anyway ! forget about them! Walleye fishing for the average joe is hard enough and they will show up for the spawn run and the good bite weeks and go off and do other things the rest of the year... take a look at the spring tournaments on Baggo in april... lower turn outs because of inconsistant catches live artificial whatever it doesnt matter... small males 14 inches long dont help you... and finding and tricking the larger fish is tuff... guys just want to bring in a catch and compete.. why tie there hands... same in July or the dog days... spend a week pre-fishing on the bay in August knowing if you run a nice fat crawler and find some active fish the day of the tornament after covering 50 miles and 5 spots only to find out that the fish moved and then finding them with two hours to fish is hard enough.. now you hope they will hit a crank or a fake worm on a harness or a gulp or squid? when you know a crawler if leagal can give you a shot to pick off the 4 or 5 fish you need to place . i dont know where most of you do you tournament fishing or if its just in the prime time months of june on Baggo but anyone who fishes a tuff bite the rest of the year needs all the help they can get! the fact is that even in the 300+ boat events in june there are plenty that have a hard time and nobody wants to come in empty ... not cashing a check is one thing but fishing all day not being able to use a live crawler or leach will upset half the field if they cant do it.. or a river tournament in the spring... it will hurt the turn out and hurt walleye fishing in my opinion. thats all... We need to admit to ourselves that this fish is hard to catch and most that enter these small tavern events or annual otter street type club events or even the weekend fisherman tfm type events have day jobs.. handycap them and there high hopes and they wont show up! Remember the thaught of good chances is what get guys to enter the past successful days with what ever bait gives them confidence ... never mind that when its a tournament day the starting gun goes off and its up for grabbs weather wise and whatever the fish are thinking they want... leave it alone already.. or start a live bait free tournament cercuit... those that want to play by those rules will fish and those that dont wont... but why make them make that choice in a modern day when the affordabuility of the game is cutting the noumbers of entries already... Having fifty kinds of gulp or whatever in your box costs money too.. did you ever look how much the stuff costs? its like trying to kickstart our shabby economy with our government putting us further in debt ? its a little tuff to build participation and growth when you keep putting something further out of reach for the common fisherman. LOOKS LIKE HALF LIKE THE IDIA AND HALF DONT! MY QUESTION IS... WHY DO WE LET OUR LARGE STRONG GROUP OF FOLKS WHO LOVE WALLEYE FISHING AND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT GET SEPARATED AND SPLIT OVER SOMTHING SO SMALL? THIS IS CRAZY ! FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO FIGHT FOR ... FOR CRYING OUT LOUD WITH ALL THE CRAP THAT IS MESSED UP IN OUR WORLD ? BANNING LIVE BAIT IN A TOURNAMENT IS WHAT YOUR TAKING UP AS YOUR LITTLE PART TO CHANGE THE WORLD?... my goodness did you look at the senate ... did you notice the kind of wacky goofballs are running this country .. your schools your justice system? look at the currupt nut jobs we are letting stay in office ! oh ya live bait ban for walleye tournaments? WHAAAAAAAT? how about this one? if the boat launch is under too much trafic because there are too many folks using them because of walleye tournaments and boat races and riverfront festivals why dont our boat registration money and launch fee's cover the cost to make a new one and a bigger one so the people going to work everyday and paying the bills in this country can enjoy the day off! | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 82
| lol...wow thats a lot of typing.
I don't think this is a fight, never meant any of my posts to look that way. It's a discussion. And talking never hurt a sport or tournaments or fishing styles. I haven't seen anybody trying to destroy our fishing or tournament fishing.
Opinions are like "you know", everybody has one, and all but mine stink. :D
Edited by saugers2 1/21/2009 4:52 PM
| |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | For everyone, including CT, Jerry, Sunshine and whomever that said this was beat to death last summer, you are right. But revisiting a subject every 6 months or so is not stupidity, it is the correct thing to do. Keeps the subject in the fore front. We are on top of the game.
| |
| | |
Member
Posts: 3899
| Never said I agreed with Lindners comments, either. At least not all of them. Just trying to get the point across that just because something was already discussed some time ago, doesn't mean that it can't be discussed again. Some new participants may not have seen the previous, new factors come along, and opinions change, or become more deeply entrenched.
I still say that one of the major circuits will go all artificial. Me bet is on AIM to do it first, to differentiate even further from the FLW.
Stacker, you looking over my shoulder? I never figured you being as smart as me! hehehe
Edited by Shep 1/22/2009 9:48 AM
| |
| | |
Member
Posts: 1656
| Bradley.....Dude, ease off. Maybe less coffee? | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | stacker - 1/22/2009 9:44 AM For everyone, including CT, Jerry, Sunshine and whomever that said this was beat to death last summer, you are right. But revisiting a subject every 6 months or so is not stupidity, it is the correct thing to do. Keeps the subject in the fore front. We are on top of the game. Stacker I agree! I jumped the gun and needed to reflect on my comments. Dialogue is always good as long as we can agree to disagree without attacking one another for our beliefs. I may be the lone ranger on this issue now but believe that the idea has merit if we seek the help of financial support from companies that produce artificial baits. Some national circuits require certain boats be used for championships. I can see the day when certain tournaments require the use of artificials I do not see this as bad thing. I believe the TV viewer will continue to use live bait but will also see that it is possible to use artificials to catch and fish and win a tournament. They'll look at what was used to win a tournament like this and will be inclined to buy that product. That is a win-win for the sponsor and the tournament fisherman who is sponsored by them. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 744
| I am worn out from reading this, almost as much as Bradley's period key is. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | Just a thought but wasn't the Redfish tournaments artificial only? I could be wrong but I thought the FLW dropped that circuit? | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Rich S - 1/22/2009 10:37 AM Just a thought but wasn't the Redfish tournaments artificial only? I could be wrong but I thought the FLW dropped that circuit? Yes, Rich they were artificial only tournaments.
| |
| | |
| Shep, I meant Lindners were inflammatory not yours, my apologies for the misunderstanding. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 3899
| I knew you meant mine were not inflammatory. Mine never are! | |
| | |
Location: Rhinelander | CT,
Regarding your above post:
That's singularly the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. You show by the abruptness of your comments your lack of understanding as to what Mr. Lindner was saying and why. Al's an independently wealthy man, and expresses his opinion based on his experience, which is, I would guess, tremendously wider, deeper and more comprehensive than yours. He's not a scintilla afraid to buck the Industry, and at times has been famous for just that. Al Lindner isn't 'bought and paid for' by anyone, and has frequently re-set the bar the rest of the Industry folks needed to strive to reach for. If you were there you could comment on the entire speech, but I'd guess from what you posted above, you were not. I now wish I had taped that speech, it was REALLY 'out of the box'.
Inflammatory? How so, because he defines what from his considerable experience might be a positive step in professionalizing the Sport, and describes exactly WHY he feels that way?
Mr. Lindner is in no way associated with, promotiong for, or working with AIM and has no intent to other than to comment on the direction he feels the sport needs to go, and encourage AIM to innovate even further than they have. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 319
| He certainly set the bar pretty high when he founded In Fisherman. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 859
Location: Appleton wi | Its always nice reading these post late anight or early in the morning before work. By the way fishing has been decent and there's alot of nice walleyes being caught | |
| | |
| First of all I admire Lindner for his talent, christian views, and his place in this sport. Yes he has vastly more knowledge than I with regards to fishing and that is exactly why when he mentioned eliminating live bait in a very blunt manner he knew exactly what he was doing and that it was going to cause a stir and this is proof right here on this little site.
Next, he did mention AIM, and the fact that this huge icon in this sport just mentioned AIM is a plug for it whether officially supporting or not.
Lastly advertisement and use of commercial products is the primary way his shows and magazines can continue and his endorsement of their products is huge for them, therefore despite whether or not he is wealthy the fact is that is how he got wealthy. Don't try to tell me he isn't thinking about that when he speaks, get real he knows where his "bread is buttered".
Now let me make this clear, I never said Lindner should not of said it, I just think it was purposely done to generate this type of debate. Course once again questioning anyone who is popular in this business is NO-No on this site. | |
| | |
Location: Rhinelander | Questioning Al Lindneror anyone, popular or unpopular, is fine anywhere IMO if done with due respect.
Back to the point:
You didn't say Al knew he was 'going to cause a stir', you said his comments were 'inflammatory and unhelpful'.
To the 'plug':
He 'mentioned' the FLW Tour, MWC, and AIM, and commented on each as it was his topic to speak to competitive angling and fishing in general in the Walleye World. it should be no surprise he supports and even participates competitive angling fro Bass, Muskies, and Walleyes; he flew in from California where he was prefishing Bass Events with his son. If he offered a 'plug' for anything it was for the Pros to re invigorate the Sport in this down economy and continue fishing all the events from all the circuits they can, promoting the sport in a constructive and well coordinated manner.
Yes, there is a bit of sensitivity to keep the discussion here civil and respectful to and for everyone. The Why of that will be obvious to you if one looks elsewhere for a similar discussion.
By the way, debate like this is a good thing, and is in no way a 'no-no'. I countered your points offering facts and information supporting my position. You countered again, softening your position somewhat and better describing your original intent, and I counter again, offering more information; that's classic debate. I'd say that's positive content here. | |
| | |
| I agree, I guess that is the biggest problem with this type of venue, we tend to read with a critical eye, and I need to keep that in mind as I choose my words. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 1188
Location: Chicago IL. | I belive he mentioned all tournament fishing and all trails. Sorry I started a crap storm. I didnt remember this topic was up last August. I was just tring to have some friendly debate on live bait,crossing state lines and trying to stop VHS from spreading, not tring to put any bait shop out of biz by any means. The average weekend angler looks at tourneys on tv, is at the weighins, and wants to know how the fish were caught. For example, I wonder how many sexy shads were sold after Van Dam won alot of money on them. That is the point that Al Linder was bringing up. Also I agree with Steve, The Linder family dont rely on tackle companys to put food on the table. | |
| | |
Location: Rhinelander | john,
Great topic and good to talk about regularly. Thanks for posting the info! | |
| | |
| Steve,
You have to get John to tell you the real reason he hates live bait (and pocketknives).... Oh and EMT partners... LOL | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 1656
| John favors the no live bait "rules". Then he'll never have to worry about being stung by another willow cat. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 3899
| CT - 1/23/2009 8:08 AM
and this is proof right here on this little site.
And we were getting along so well.
Little site? It's these little digs that you keep tossing out there that keep people from warming up to you. You keep saying stuff like that, well, I wonder why you even bother coming to this "little"site. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 1188
Location: Chicago IL. | Guys I love using willow cats. I just dont touch them anymore. HAHAHA!!!! Bought one of those funnels and my worries are over. The best 3 bucks I ever spent. But to be honest I havent hooked one on in 3 years. I`m not against live bait at all. I use it as much as anybody. | |
| | |
| Shep, in your haste to try and make me look bad by using a small snippet of my response you obviously missed the point I was trying to make and that was that Linder's comments were made to stir controversy and it was proven by you and I "debating" right here on this local forum. And the fact that it has only like 2417 registered users does make it little. Sorry to have offended your machismo. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | CT, I dont think he was making you look bad. In fact, he may have wanted to ask you for more info, such as, what sites should we be looking at that are bigger than WF and can give us more meat on this subject? Now, before you answer, don't go saying walleye central, because everyone here knows of that one, and we know what happens when you try to have a good discussion over there. The fact that you will not register and have an adult conversation with the rest of the guys here, makes me wonder about your intentions. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | I have been on pretty much every (believe me when I say EVERY) fishing and boating website there are. WalleyeFirst is far from little especially when it comes to the amount of info this site has on it compared to the other sites. I am sure CT was not comparing it to other fishing related sites. Of all the adjectives one could use to describe WalleyeFirst, little would not even come to mind.
I also like walleye Central but spend more of my time here. | |
| | |
| so how exactly does registering make one an adult and only then have the ability to contribute, and who cares if a site is little or not since really it all depends on perspective and none of that matters. I choose to make my points anonymously for my personal reasons, that doesn't make it more or less of a point. If I was throwing around threats then maybe, but I don't, just make my points and try to debate certain topics. I feel Shep took it out of context and that was why I responded and now I'm not adult cause I don't register and we're debating on if it's a big site or a little site. I bet if you googled fishing forums there are probably hundreds of them for every area in the country and more internationally. I have no agenda, enjoy this site , big or little, mostly because it leans toward an area that is local for me. | |
| | |
| Perfect answer. thanks, CT, maybe folks will get your points a bit better now, maybe not, but middle ground is always a good place to meet. | |
| | |
Member
Posts: 3899
| Not trying to make you look bad. Not at all, CT. I took that snippet, because that was just the latest little dig that you toss out there in nearly every previous post. I said exactly what I meant. That it's hard to warm up to you, and read your posts, when you always have to have a dig at someone/something. Just make the point, and be nice about it.
That said, I think live bait will be removed in one of the circuits in the forseeable future.
Edited by Shep 1/27/2009 12:35 PM
| |
| |
|
