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| I'm asking this on a number of sites and would greatly appreciate your input on this important issue.
Seems to me we need to get an understanding of why it is that the numbers of people joining the ranks as fishermen is gradually dropping nationwide.
Are our dropping numbers of youth getting into fishing a result of a lack of recruitment to the sport on our part, or our enability to retain them once they reach that certain age that other influences take them away?
What can/should we do about it?
License sales are dropping nationwide, and I think it is best for us to understand why it is, and maybe figure out what it is we as a group can do to stem this tide.
Thanks for all your input.
P.S. It's nice to be back!!  |
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Location: Rhinelander | Jack,
It's all the above and more. I'd say one of the biggest problems is that Mom and Dad have to work two jobs or worse in many cases, and folks just don't take their kids fishing as much as is needed.
Look at AYA as one of the fronts in the battle to get kids out of the house and mall and back into the out of doors.
http://www.angleryoungangler.ca/
Several NPAA Pros have set up a serious program to get kids fishing and have done a great job.
http://www.npaa.net/
Good to hear from you again, sir. |
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Location: Menasha, WI | Thank you for taking the time to come to this page and read about our upcoming event. In June of 2009 we are planning our 4th Annual Kids Wish For Fish Event. It is not a tournament or a contest, but an event where we are taking several kids out on the lake for a day of fishing and fun, that normally would not get the chance to go out on a fully rigged boat.. The event will last for about 3 or 4 hours of fishing from Calumet County Park boat launch, and then after we are done fishing, we are going to go to the Brickyard Fishing Club for some quick lunch and to give away door prizes to all the kids. I am looking forward to this more than I am about any of my upcoming tournaments. This lake has given me so much and I feel this is a chance for me to give something back to both the lake and to those kids that do not have the opportunity to fish it like we all do. I hope you consider helping out for this event.
We are in need of volunteers for this great event, and we would love to have you jump on board and help out. If you can skip a day of fishing and want to help out, please contact me, and let me know your availability. You will not be turned away. We choose this day every year, because it is the free fishing weekend in WI, and this way, there are no expenses occured to the parents/guardians that accompany the child.
We are in need of several boats for the event as well. All boats must be USCG approved, proper PFDS, have a marine radio or cell phone in the boat, fire extinguisher, all safety gear must be current and in place, flares, cell phone, flat bottom,and there will be no tillers allowed. The boaters that participate in this event will not get paid, you must have a partner with you, and must be willing to use your own equipment,gas, and bait. Remember, you are donating your time, so please consider that before you volunteer your boat. You must also have your own insurance for your boat.
I want to thank the Darboy/Sherwood Optimist club for being a major sponsor and contributor to this event.
We are in need of funds as well. This is the tough one. This event will cost us about $3,000.00 for one day. If there are extra funds available after the event is done, it will go into a bank account for the following year. We hope to have this grow on a yearly basis. There is a lot of red tape that needs to be taken care of before we can hold the event. We are asking for donations to this event as well.
All donors names will be posted at Val's Bait and Tackle for those attending the event to see who helped support the event. If you do not want your name to be known, we can keep that discreet as well. There are several costs involved in this event, and I will list a few for you to see below:
Liability Insurance
Waiver Forms
Medical Staff
Boat Launch Fees
Food
Pop
Ice
Chips
Door Prizes for the kids
Transportation to and from the event
Miscellaneous expenses related directly to the event
This group of people involved in the Kids Wish for Fish event are trying to get these kids involved. Several of you from WalleyeFirst have helped in the past and I look forward to you all helping out in the future. Feel free to contact me for more details at [email protected] or call me at 920.716.3620. Maybe WalleyeFirst will consider coming to the event and doing some interviews with these youngsters. That would be awesome and you all would love to see their smiles and their excitement as they tell you about the big sheepshead they caught. I mean it, it is awesome!
Edited by Axl 2/4/2009 1:00 AM
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| You know I have a 10 and 14 year old, I give them every chance to do outdoors stuff, camping, scouts, hunting and fishing. They both like doing the stuff, but living in a metro area they cant walk out the back door like I did growing up on the country, heck nothing like grabbing the 22 and go out in your backyard and shoot. As far as fishing I make it available to them, I fixed up a 12' tin boat for them to use on the local lake. One thing I noticed is hardly non of their friends do the outdoors stuff, parents are so wrapped up in school sports, week nights and weekends are hockey, football baseball basketball on and on....... And my kids are pulled away by their friends so it is a struggle to keep them interested in the outdoors
Look at where most of the population is, urban areas, I bet if you went and did a survey of kids who livein the country it would be different
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Location: Chicago IL. | Kirt, I will have to agree with you. There is just not enough time in lives in urban areas to go. I know raiseing my kids we were on the go all the time, before the video/ computer era .Camping fishing hikeing. It was rare for us to be home on the weekends. Times have changed for sure. We try to keep our grandson busy in the outdoors,but its hard when his friends dont. We fish the AYA here and he is already pumped even tho is months away. He is giving that superman pole a work out getting ready. I was already told by him to forget the sheepheads and go for the walleyes this year!!! It dont get any better. |
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| In my own house, I have Eric, 17, and he could care less. He doesn't like to get up early to go fishing. He'd rather spend his free time on that stupid PS/3. Then there is Lauren, 13, who loves to go fishing with me. She'll go almost any time, for any species. Loves catching fish, whether it's big Green Bay eyes and muskies, eaters from Bago, or panfish. She is the one who will stick with it as she grows older. Eric, I'm not so sure. He has no interest in tourney fishing at this point. I may do a FUll Throttle with Lauren this summer, just to see if she likes that. Otherwise, it's fishing for fun, and a couple meals.
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Location: Elgin, Illinois | Each year for the last four years, our club, Northern Illinois Walleye Club, has hosted a Kid's Fishing Clinic. It is held at Shabbonna State Park on the Free Fishing Day in June. We have always had around 30-45 kids and their parents. We provide some basic instruction, a free lunch for everyone (including parents), bait and now we also provide each kid with a new spincast outfit and some tackle. I can't say with any certainty, but my opinion is that we kindle a spark in a few of those kids every year. We hope that the parents follow through and keep bringing those kids along as they grow.
My kids are grown... My oldest daughter, now a mother of two, has no interest. My son is an avid fisherman. My youngest daughter, 22, loves to fish. So, I guess I have passsed it on to the next generation. I will see how well I do with my grandchildren???? |
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Location: Orland Park, IL | He shep seen the same thing with the neighbors boy. Was more into sports, chicks, etc., everything but fishing. Now that is 18 and ready for college, I see him spending more time with his pops. Which is what I like to see.
I wish I could say every time I take the boy fishing, its about fishing. Fishing is probably 20% of the time, the rest is eating junk fook, makeing a "fort" out of towels on the boat, pee'in in the water, etc. |
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| Every summer our BASS Club assists a local conservation group with their Kids Fishing Derby, after the Derby we host a Casting Kids event. It is a casting compition set up and organized by BASS, the winning kids advance to the State Championship, and winner there goes to a Regional.
BASS provides a medal to the winners, our club gives out Plano Tackleboxes to each kid that enters, Plano Molding donates them to us...nice stuff too. We also give every kid at both events tackle bags...plastics, bobbers, line...etc.
Every year it gets bigger and bigger, last year we gave out over 70 tackleboxes, and over 100 tackle packs. The kids love it. |
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| Video games.....the demise of any outdoor related activity. Wish the WI DNR could see this as well instead of creating a Youth xxx for whatever sport they want to recruit.
Instant gratification society. If the kid ain't happy, buy it for them. Lack of creativity and simple pleasure, not only the demise of outdoor activity....America's laziness is catching up with it, one generation at a time.
Edited by Jayman 2/4/2009 10:46 AM
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| Is there a reason for the reduction in licenses?
I think all of the above are right and there are many of us that spend hours upon hours trying to get our youth involved. but more importantly we should look at the fact that there are not as many young people in this world today. We baby boomers were considered privledged and as a group were the healthiest and wealthiest, we knew that our lives would improve, and we knew the value of activities like fishing. The generation X and Y have been brought up with these values and our desire to want more out of life. Yet their social activities and the struggle they are seeing today is nothing like that of our past.
Given todays state of economic crisis I can't say the feelings of todays younger generation feel the same way and their values are entirely different because of what we as a society have taught them.
We boomers were told that the boob tube would ruin our lives as we sat in front of it for hours upon hours similarly to that of todays generation with video games. Can you LIVE without a TV today? Is an x-box console really that different than my Zenith console? Can we really blame them for the demise of the fishing industry? Heck I sit here today wondring how we got anything done in years past without the internet and cellphones.
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| Personally I believe fishing licenses are dropping because many are deciding to take the chance and fish without buying one, trying to save money I guess. Fishing is not what it used to be, it used to be one of the main staples of recreation for younger people, now there are so many other variables. I think if the economy gets worse you will slowly see the interest in fishing rise in the young again. It will be one of the few things they will be able to afford. |
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Location: Menasha, WI | I think there are some pretty good observations here. However, I don't think we can reduce the problem down to a single causal factor -- all of the things listed here likely contribute in some way. As a parent of 2 young 'uns myself, I think another factor is the lack a freedom afforded to children in this day and age (some justifiable, some ridiculous). When I was a kid we could bike 2 -- 3 miles to go fishing and our parents wouldn't bat an eye. This was in the Twin Cities, not the sticks. Today a kid leaving his own block is a big freakin' deal. I am fortunate to live close to Winnebago and I allow my 8 year old to go down the block to the lake alone to fish -- you can only imagine the 'concern' we hear from other butt-in-ski parents. I really think the lack of opportunity for kids to develop their own interests in their own way is part of the problem. |
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| I'm guessing to some extent, our own fishing technology is working against us to some measure. Many of us were first recruited into fishing by just sitting on the shore with a pole and a can of worms we dug out of the backyard (or neighbors garden  )! We would sit there and wonder to ourselves...what's down there? What type of fish is going to be there today? Is there one looking at my bait right now? In other words, there was a measure of intrigue and mystery to what we were doing and what might happen. As already stated, kids now days are totally submerged in technology, and they use it and understand it earlier and better than most any of us here at our older age. So what happens when they get into what is today considered a "typical" fishing boat with 1 or 2 graphs, a GPS with map chips, a bow mount trolling motor, maybe a camera. They see all the technology at work and they see fish are there, so to them, the game has been won. There is no mystery or intrigue. Take that same kid, and go out in a boat with maybe only a flasher, or nothing at all and the young minds start to wonder again...whats down there? whats happening down there? Are there any fish here?
Edited by jack dunn 2/4/2009 5:22 PM
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| Well im still in high school and live in Central PA. Not any big city for like 4 hours unless you count State College. I would say less than 20% fish and most of them only go the first day of trout to catch some stockies but way less than that go regularly. Most of my friends would rather go get hammered then to go fishing. I would say maybe 10-20 kids out of 1400 go fishing on a pretty regular basis in my school. Possibly a few more. It's not like we dont have great fishing here either we have some of the best trout waters in the US plus the susquehanna is here and that is filled with big smallmouths, walleye, muskies(not filled with them), catfish, and panfish.
I dont know why kids dont go fishing around because usually when someone does go fishing with me they really enjoy it. Maybe they just aren't willing to do it all the time or invest the money it takes to catch nice fish on a regular basis. So if they aren't catching anything they lose interest. Plus it seems like less adults fish around here than there used to be when my dad and his friends where kids. |
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Location: Orland Park, IL | I grew up in chicago, about 3 miles west of comiskey, right in mayor rich daleys worlds. AP down the block, Goldblatt up another block, dad worked 42 years for the gum factory a few miles down. Mom worked nights for 24 years in the same factory. During the summer it was fishing and baseball in the goldblatts parking lot. Thats it. Thats all my crew did. Mckinley park, sherman park, and marquette park. Fishing poles were on our bikes, like those long cb antennas. Bait wasnt fancy, worms or corn.
Now I live in suburbia, less congestion, middle class. I would be nuts to let the boy go to the pond a few blocks away. |
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Location: Green Bay | number #1 mom don't fish/don't know how and dad ain't around kids don't have the patience, they excpect immedite gratifcation a.k.a video games people are moving to the cities for jobs and getting away from the weekends of fishing, it's become a vacation item rather than a lifestyle. kids aren't expose to fishing on a regular basis, there by they never learn that it takes time or never have a chance at quality fishing experience, lt's become lots of boats on the water and partying. lakes that once were quiet have way to many water skis and jet skis and jet skis are more fun than getting up early to freeze on a lake ....bored fishing is a discipline and discipline is hard to come by these days, it's hard to catch a fish in the middle of the day, but sleeping in til 9 am is easier. fishing is expensive, choices have to be made, family needs vs "entertainment" my cousin and i grew up fishing. he has two kids and hasn't wet a line in two years. last time was with me when i took him ice fishing, he hasn't gone since. not that desire isn't there but the focus of of his life has changed, he makes the choice to do other things, his daughters will know thw family vacation up north, catch a few bluegills as children then propbaly never take up fishing. fishing is a life style that is hard to do in certain places. In stevens point when i lived there, i had the wi river in my backyard, it took me nearly a year to figure out how to consitantly catch fish, then in the summer if i wasn't on the water at day break, by 9 am the river was full of other people competing for a space, it was crowded, I fish to escape the crowds, it looses it's luster when the stress is so high that i'd rather be at home in my garden vs flipping peole off for cutting at top speed through the hole i was fishing. at 12 i recall being dropped off at the pier to fish becaus a ugly divorce has occured and i didn't have any one to take me, but at that time nobody worried about predator. when I was 13, my parents let me ride my bike two miles down the road to fish a stream by myself, and i didn't get killed. at 16 i was getting up at 3:30 am to be on the dock three miles away at first light, ulitmately my parents trusted me but let me screw up once in a while, they knew i loved to fish and fostered that passion, parents don't let kids take chances I could go on........
Edited by Phishy 2/4/2009 9:48 PM
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| I'll throw this in... "POSTED, NO FISHING" We used to hop on our bikes and take off all summer fishing... now these neat spots are shut down... |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Good conversation! I am 47 with a 7 1/2 and a 6 yr old. Believe me, my Dad was right when he said " Wait til you have kids." I take my boys out every chance I get which I believe is not often enough. Tip #1: Make it fun. I let them bring their DS games along for when we are trolling, they have something to amuse themselves. They fight over who will be reeling in the next fish. Tip #2: Your kids comfort level is not the same as yours. If there are 2 footers out on the lake, they may not enjoy that. When that happens to me, I simply turn our fishing trip into a fun boat ride. I try to get them a little wet on purpose like they are at the water park. Although with a Tuffy that isn't too easy. Nice plug huh Steve? Tip #3: Make the trip with younger ones about 4 hours max. they don't like being in a confined space too long. They like running up and down hills and riding their bikes. Hope this helps for anyone with younger children. Remember, make it fun for them. Let them drive the boat. let them turn on the electronics. Let them operate the trolling motor. Let them play with the nightcrawlers. You have all the time in the world to fish seriously. |
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Location: Orland Park, IL | Very nice horshak. 100% on board with that. |
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| Do we have any state-specific info on license sales?
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Location: Berlin | Right on Horshak! I am going to print that post out and leave it in my boat this year. |
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| Heres the DNR's "plan" for the future. Over the next 20 years our population of baby boomers will double in size, estimated to be about 20% of our population over the age of 65. There will be alot more hours spent fishing unfortunately it isn't the younger generation.
http://dnr.wi.gov/invest/documents/fwhplan0713.pdf
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | I will weigh in on this.
I would like to see the numbers as far as license sales and the age groups that are participating and those that are not. Everyone says kids kids kids gotta show them the sport. We know the world has changed in the last 4 decades, but who is not fishing? That is who is not buying the licenses. How do we know the kids aint fishing by the way? They dont need a license! The guys reading this board have better fishing than most adults ever get. You, my friends, are at the top of the food chain. Do you ever think that you will not catch fish when you go? I was just confronted by a lady the other day that stated that her and her husband fish but they don't and have never done really good. They catch a few here and there for dinner. They really appreciated the walleyes I gave them. I asked them if there son ever gives them fish and They said that there son is in his late 30's and quit fishing because he never caught anything.
After that discussion I thought that right there is a reason for folks to not go fishing, they dont catch anything. Maybe that is where the focus should go. If the parents dont fish, that kid will not fish anymore after the event anyhow, or the retention to the sport rate will be very very small. Have to put on family events that show dad what to do and where to go, kids how to rig the rods and moms a cooking and cleaning class, all on the same day. Teach the family. Give parents something they can do with there kids. re-teach what we learned along time ago.
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| Ya' just what we need the DNR funding the re-release of those male chauvinist 1950's Campbells soup and Mr.Clean ads |
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| "moms a cooking and cleaning class"
I bet you voted for Hillary too, huh Stacker? |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | hahahahahahahahahahaa..........ok, let dad go, I guess you just dont get the point.hahahahahaaha it did sound funny. |
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Posts: 39
| Maybe its time for us to look at including "outdoor sciences" into the public education system at the middle school and high school levels?
Give all youths the chance to at least read and study a little about what is outside the big city limits. If something like that could prevent even 1% of the kids in the big city schools from becoming a life long criminal or "gang banger" it would be worth it. |
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| Well, I am smack dab in the middle of this right now. My oldest daughter fished her first walleye tourney when she was 5, She loves going with me and so does the youngest. This year my oldest will be playing on a traveling fastpitch softball team, 5 weekend tourneys starting in late May and going through mid august. Her fishing time will decrease,and mine to, if your kids have any skill in any sport these days they must play on these teams,or they will never have the oppertunity to play at the High School level. My neibor has a son and I have taken them him out in the boat exactly 1 time, every weekend is filled with football,baseball and wrestling from april through October and practice twice a week to boot. They do ice fish alot manly because time of the year allows it. In my opinion this is where the kids have went instead of fishing, unless their parents or parent are avid outdoors folks most kids won't develop the love for our sport that we have. Kitch  |
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| Is there really a problem? Maybe nationwide but not so much here in WI?
Resident annual License sold in WI
1999=600684
2000=616802
2001=626712
2002=637288
2003=657997
2004=649986
2005=652642
2006=657842
2007=668823
Combined to include Annual and husband and wife
1999 unavail.
2000=833548
2001=842702
2002=849123
2003=873257
2004=859996
2005=865860
2006=879532
2007=897361
Non-Resident
1999=101735
2000=105078
2001=104559
2002=106324
2003=107617
2004=101983
2005=101400
2006=92748
2007=93248
Non-Resident Family
1999=31016
2000=31305
2001=30636
2002=30502
2003=30414
2004=29632
2005=30249
2006=33109
2007=41380
Non-Resident 4 day declined but the NR 15 day has steadily increased with nearly 35000 sold in 2007.
When you add in Sturgeon, Great Lakes and Inland Trout you get a total of licenses sold:
2002=1281284
2003=1278145
2004=1271499
2005=1260351
2006=1256684
2007=1279407
No substantial gains or losses in my opinion! There are lots of ways to analyze data but the argument that fishing in WI is suffering because we are loosing license sales is wrong, now if you compile the ages of those purchasing these licenses it might paint a different picture, and it would be purely speculation so we have to take the plan as laid out and accept it.
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Berlin | Funny stuff Denny! I wondered how long it would take to get a response from that post  |
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| kids under 16 dont need a license in wisc so the number are a reflection on adults not kids! |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Rich S - 2/6/2009 8:21 AM
Funny stuff Denny! I wondered how long it would take to get a response from that post :)
Most have a hard time seeing beyond there scrutinizing nose, that for sure. Let me tell you a story.
Dad and son planned a first time ever fishing trip for saturday and dad ended up having to work. Mom seen son crying so she said she would take him. neither had ever fished so they went to the bait shop, got a pole and worms and found a spot on a lake with some shade. mom did not want to put the crawlers on but gaged and did it, they caught 3 little gills. took them home. she cooked them and she gaged them down. Just then dad came in and asked how the day went and she was thinking smelly fish, crawlers, hot and 3 little fish. The son answered it was great. he said the lake was calm and the birds were singing and they sat on a flat rock and watched a duck go by and watched the ripples from it. they skipped stones and took a nap. They had a great day. He said nothing about the fishing.
Thats what I was getting at. Teach the family how to fish, not just a kid. They see things differently then adults. Thats what fishing is for, Memories and that is what we all have from our years. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | TYee, thanks for the numbers, it would be cool if they can a 10 year range on ages to further analyze what age groups are playing. Kind of like spawning years on walleyes, where is the recruitment coming from. |
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| guest - 2/6/2009 9:48 AM
kids under 16 dont need a license in wisc so the number are a reflection on adults not kids!
Thats true, but if those numbers drop that tells us that more license aged people are dropping out of fishing than there are getting into it, hence the question....recruitment -vs- retention. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Jack, the problem I can see with your retention vs. recruitment is you have no bench mark in which to follow the under age fisherman (recruitment). Only the license buyers have a bench mark. If they would or could do a 10 year split on the license buyers then you would have a better bench mark. Are older people getting in, or younger people getting out? Otherwise, the bench mark we have to follow is a very broad spectrum. |
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| im 22 years old and not to many of my freinds like to fish. My brothers do not like to fish other than if i make them go with me. i think fishing clubs should be put together in schools starting maybe in grade school. i like how they have the college fishing but that doesnt get kids into fishing. im young and i dont see to much hope for the fishing industry from kids my age and younger. Not just tournys.. |
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| Here's more food for thought, Jack
In 2004 we sold 128k non resident 4 day licenses, in 2007 we sold 99k.
When I first saw this decline I thought to meself, Self, Our licenses are so cheap they must be buying annuals or 15 day but both of those have been consistantly declining as well (15 day has been between 32k and 35k for 9 years and the annual was 101k in 1999 and now is 93k) Then I thought well the Muskies are bigger in MN so those Vikings are staying home more and no longer come here, then I thought maybe the Bass tourney folk just gave up on our culling law and no longer come. Or maybe those to the south of us have spent so much money for recreational property up here they can't afford to fish any more. Either way non-resident anglers are declining.
In addition to the number of licenses sold above we also sold 67200 Resident Patron Licenses in 1999, it grew to 81,000 in 2003 and has diminished to 56,559 in 2007.
Although the most intriguing to me are the number of Winnebago Sturgeon Licenses sold, In 1999 there were 40271 and in 2007 there were 8897....seems that in 2003 there were changes as we lost 25000 in one year or theres atypo in my spreadsheet. Can any of you spearers enlighten me on this one?
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 2/9/2009 5:08 PM
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| Tom, Wisconsin is not the only state loosing non resident license sales. We all are, plus all the states have dropping resident license sales also.
Where are all the fishermen going, are they all just dropping out, or are they just never getting into the game? Has our emphasis on "tournaments" turned the potential casual fisherman away from the sport for fear of not fitting into the precieved niche associated with being an accomplished fisherman? |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Jack, I do not think that we have the correct information to make a decision regarding where are all the fishermen going. We have a lot, but we do not have the final pieces. |
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Location: Menasha, WI | Just a thought, but it seems that discussing the intersection of license sales and youth is really missing the point. Shouldn't we be teach young people to fish because it is a good thing in and of itself? |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Viking, I think that would be another whole topic.
This one was brought up as a subject of falling license sales and the blame being fingered out as the youth are just not fishing. We do not have that proof as we speak. I think we need to know things before the problem can be fingered. I have thoughts but they are not documented. I believe the documentation can found.
As for it being the right thing to do, as with all community service work, I believe it to be what one feels in there own heart. |
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| "Although the most intriguing to me are the number of Winnebago Sturgeon Licenses sold, In 1999 there were 40271 and in 2007 there were 8897....seems that in 2003 there were changes as we lost 25000 in one year or theres atypo in my spreadsheet. Can any of you spearers enlighten me on this one?"
I believe that is the year DNR started charging CP applicants for the tags. Prior to that, if you purchased a CP license, the sturgeon tag was included. |
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| That is absolutely correct, Brad. The sturgeon tag became it's own license, for sturgeon harvest data and financial reasons. |
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| Jack your incorrect, WI has gained 68,000 Resident License sales in the last 9 years. No decline here. I can understand the loss of non-resident as all tourism has declined. Your point of decreasing license sales is related to the total of license sales is it not? because that includes trout, sturgeon, non-resident and others but overall general resident license sales are increasing.
Here you go Stacker now you have all the information you need to form an opinion. The numbers tell us that the middle aged people are the concern not so much the elderly or the young IMO. I guess, as I am in this age bracket, I am like many others with my priorities in life where work becomes more or a priority. Once we get near retirement ages the numbers grow again. It also tells me that unless we create jobs in the fishing industry we won't ever see growth. and fishing is a recreation. If you make it like work fewer people will enjoy it. I think we could use a bail out stimulous package.
Thanks Brad for clarifying that it really tells the number of spearers better.
Age 2007 2005 2003
12yrs-20 79387 73431 82015
21-30 179419 177,407 180,555
31-40 185165 195408 219661
41-50 238537 244996 248428
51-60 183694 175477 164158
61-70 109914 103782 97487
71-80 46974 43502 34480
80+ 2837 85 88
Total 1025927 1014088 1026872
Age data is only compiled biannually so this is all the farther back I gan get.
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 2/10/2009 12:02 PM
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| I think 99" was also the year DNR started cutting short the season due to kill quoto's. It use to be 10day spearing and alot of guys gave it up after the season were cut short ............. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Tyee, that is great work.
Now, if you look at the numbers, as you said, you would say that the middle age people are the ones that have been declining. Who are these people and why are they having such a effect on the numbers? Because they are baby boomers and there numbers are bigger than other generations. There kids have grown and they have been blessed with great jobs for most there lives and they are now going to do other things because they can afford it.
In wisconsin, we are looking good. I would think we need to do more prevention verses recruitment. Keep upping the quality of there experience. They will tell others.
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Location: Appleton wi | I'd like to see more jig fisherman on bago retire and stop clogging up the neenah reefs..............Hahaha ........ i remember the day before everyone had gps and a guy could troll them all he wanted and share them with the few jiggers who could find them! Good ol days!
Edited by eye Lunker 2/10/2009 2:11 PM
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| There are probably over one thousand reasons why kids are no longer as interested in angling as we may have been when we were young. If it would help to correct this perceived "problem" then perhaps some group should initiate a summit to document the plethora of changes.... Don't forget that there's really nobody to BLAME here as we all contribute to the changes of time. How many own electronic gadget advancements that most people like to BLAME. While placing BLAME might help some chest pounders feel good within themselves I don't think it moves this perceived "problem" one ounce in any direction.
How about talking about ways to get folks of ALL ages back on the waters? People of all ages seem to enjoy a nice day of fishing and hopefully the catching ain't too bad either..... Maybe followed up by a fish fry.....
For those that feel there isn't a MAJOR reduction in the numbers of young people fishing I really challenge your logic. For the past 10 years I've spent a solid 100 plus days fishing all over the midwest. Trust me I RARELY see any anglers under the age of 30. Gramps started putting a pole in my hand on Lake of the Woods in 1963 when I was 3. There were many, many kids my age that I could play with when we returned to shore...... I've been back to LOTW's many times since 1963 and I see very few kids hanging around on shore or floatin' in the boat...
Just my observations and thanks to Jack for this thought provoking thread!
Kurt |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Well, Kturner, I always say that numbers don't lie, and the numbers say that the 40-50 year olds are the ones dropping out. Fact is the 20-30 are the prime parents as there children are still young. They are also the years people have kids and take them fishing. If they are buying licenses I hafta' guess there kids are fishing also. We will see a insurgence when 2 licenses turn to 4 with the kids getting over 16.
I agree though, that it would be alot of fun if someone would have a "fish with a pro" day. The public brings there own boat, and someone like us volunteer time to go fishing with them for 6 hours. Just mom and dad. teach them technics and such without having to hire a guide. Catching is fun so the more catching they do, the more of a chance of little billy wanting to take his buddy bobby and then bobbys dad gets all fired up, it can happen quickly, not a time honored process either. Have a fish fry when done and talk about things.
Focus on the whole family thing. Just hope for a great day.
Edited by stacker 2/10/2009 3:12 PM
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| KT, My logic is explained in the numbers I have posted above so that is why I don't really see it as a problem. Your thinking might be towards why the sport isn't "growing" or then again maybe not? LOTW is a destination location and tourism in general is down, more and more are moving to the burbs, and the rural folks are becoming less and less while we continue to sell a consistant number of licenses. What can we do to improve these things and grow?
While Stackers thoughts of taking kids and families out in boats is comendable and a great idea (even profitable for a boat dealer hehe) it doesn't encourage a family that can't afford a boat to get into the sport. In addition to the things mentioned we need to concentrate on access points, and not expensive boat landings, but access to a good piece of water, or good pieces of water created with quality fishing opportunities. These real estate locations have been swallowed up by million dollar homes or expensive highway projects. I once did an article on shorline fishing in the Fox Valley and around the Winnebago system, and would you believe with all this water there really aren't very many places to fish from shore...."legally"!
Involving oranizations like Big Brothers, Big Sisters, 4H, Boy Scouts, and fishing activities in our school systems are all positive things. I know my sons all chose outdoors and wildlife over organized after school sporting activities, while those events promote the "teamwork" approach they often rely on others for success. A great CEO once told me that in order to achieve success and happiness you must acquire individuality, a good skill set, a positive attitude and the ability to communicate with confidence. If you've spent any time fishing at all, you know you have learned these things very well.
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | side note, I did say that we go IN THERE BOAT not ours. I think they would learn more in there own boat. I agree withthe shoreline spotsthat we had when we were growing up. |
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| The shoreline availability was brought up in another thread and is prudent to the issue, I agree with you tyee. Growing up in the valley there were many places to fish from shore. Today there are very few, even the Corp of Engineers has fenced in much land in Appleton that I used to go for small mouth. The greatest share of fishermen do not have boats and the opportunity for anyone to walk up to the shoreline and fish is dwindling away. |
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| Stacker, Tyee, RNT and all readers - first off it's great that we care enough to use our valuable free time to type responses and care and second of all I think all the differing views get to the heart of the matter on how sophisticated changing the future and evolution can be..... Just happens that we care about the great sport of angling and want to make sure it's well preserved and represented in the future for loved ones or those that forgot how great it is to be trolling out of the harbor with the sun rise in your face, about 65 degrees F, and the swells of the water and earth waifing thru your every nerve....... Or sitting on the bank tossing out that first cast and the bobber hardly hits the water and it's gone..... 9.5 inch pumpkin seed gill....
Then you get that first thump on the wrist......
Ah..... life don't get much better..... until you bite into that first filet........
What a wonderful sport to discuss, debate and try our best to make a difference....
Get the net, it's a big one....... |
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| Here is some food for thought on the subject. Hunting and fishing are declining in the country as a whole and in all honestly it is the industry’s fault. They have lost the ability to promote the activity of fishing in most main stream mediums. Everyone has been pushing fishing as a “sport” and not an activity. I deal with a lot of magazines and newspapers and what I find is fishing, along with hunting, are scarce to find in the modern outdoors magazines and newspapers. You have the hunting/fishing magazines that usually the hardcore fishermen and hunters read but not the everyday person. Outdoor magazines and newspapers now days focus on kayaking, hiking, camping, RVing, biking and so on but not hunting and fishing.
It does not help when you have old dinosaurs in the industry that are set in their ways and unable to adapt much less step aside and let some new blood with the enthusiasm to pursue the correct paths for the modern times. You have outdoor writers that have been writing for 40 years and for the most part they do not mentor any younger writers in the field and purposely making it harder for some to break into the field. The elders have used the mediums they have for so long they don’t have the ability or don’t have the drive to bring fishing back to the staple it once was.
If the industry cannot find a way to get the activity of fishing back in the American fabric of life I feel there will be a consistent down turn in numbers.
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| RedNT - while your point seems valid I'm missing your suggestions on how to correct this obvious gap in keeping up with the times when it comes to media....
Any ideas come to mind? Just curious as most of the time I find someone with your style of observation to also have the ability to identify some down right good ideas on how to rectify the wrong..... if ya know what I mean..... Not sure of the details but it'd be fun to learn how Mr. Tony Dean might have mentored or assisted Mr. Jason Mitchell's career. Only being 6 hours from Pierre I tend to see their shows on FSN. I enjoy their on-the-water fishing discussions and the bodies of water they fish. Maybe it was simply a business transaction but has the potential to be an interesting story... It maybe enlightening and motivational to someone sitting on the fence......
Sure wish I was fishing thru the ice...... Kurt |
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| To be quite honest the only way to correct the trend are to have people who are willing to put the time and effort (which is a lot) into nudging out the dead wood. TV programs are not the problem though, they are educational. I see the biggest problem with the print media side of it. Magazines and newspapers are loaded up with ridged writers and editors that over a three year period rehash the same old "information". The greatest share of people fish for the relaxation and fun...not for competition. You have the OWAA that keeps new blood out of the main stream, sort of an old boy's network. Instead of having club rules that state one must make the majority of their living from writing outdoor articles, let the part-timers join even if they do not make a large percentage of income from their writing. The industry is so afraid of competition and someone better might come in and replace them it ends up stagnating the industry.
There is a fabric that has been lost here and promoting tournaments is not going to bring it back. I really do not think there are enough people out there that would want to put in the work required to turn it around. The biggest thing I see is stop promoting fishing as a competitive sport, put the effort into promoting the activity of fishing. There is a place for competitive fishing and it is not for promoting fishing for recreation in general.
Having fishing as part of the fabric of growing up is gone.
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| Redneck,
Thank you sir. Your last 2 posts have my mind swimming in thought. |
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Location: Janesville | Well instead of whining about it , Lets do something. How many new or young people have you personally taken fishing? Its great to read about it but actually doing it would probably have a bigger effect than anything else. Every year I try and take somebody that doesn't fish much or at all out fishing. Our musky club last year for our Take a Kid Fishing day had well over 300 people fishing that day. What a sight. It's like anything else YOU have to make the time for it. Here is my boy with his biggest fish. Priceless
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| I don't think there's any whining going on, just people trying to figure out a trend that is disturbing. If I were to venture a guess I would say almost everyone here has done what they thought would help promote fishing. Taking younger people out fishing is great but I doubt it will reverse the trend. The fabric of fishing in the American lifestyle was not built from boats. There is a whole culture here that has been lost and as I said, very few people have what it takes to turn it around. |
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| I'm not willing to accept the idea we can't turn this around, but I think we all need to ask these kids what it will take to keep them interested in the "activity" of fishing? If everyone of us asked every young person we take out this year, and revisit this thread next year, I'd bet we'd all have some thoughts to share from those conversations.
Maybe, just maybe the start of the turn around is getting not just the kids, but their parents also, to talk about it?? |
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| You need to revive a whole culture. Bring back the scenes of fishermen out in a park at night after a rainstorm with a flashlight worming, bring back the 12 doz night crawlers for 50 cents on signs on every block of a neighborhood, bring back the family walking down to the park for a picnic and dropping the poles in the water for the day an d being happy with whatever they catch. This has all been replaced with getting quick results...it's not fishing unless you're catching lots of fish.
Bring back the culture and you bring back true fishing.
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| To some of you who have posted on this thread numerous times why dont you just start taking some kids out fishing that you know and make a personally impact.
There shouldnt have to be a reason such as the license are at low nationwide for you to think about it. If your a true fisherman you would be taking the time in your life and mentoring a child or young adult or any adult and share some of your prosperity. |
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| How in the world do you know who mentors and takes kids out fishing and who doesn't? Just because people do not sit and brag about it does not mean it doesn't happen. |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Leave it to me to be the wet blanket....
Personally, I don't buy that their are less people fishing. The wolf river in the spring is just as nuts today as it was 15 years ago. The Fox river in Depere has EASILY twice the traffic it did 15 years ago. Winnebago is stupid full of people when the bite is good and busy from May thru the end of August.
Perhaps license sales aren't the best way to guage fishing pressure??? Maybe the license sales are about the same but those of us that are buying them actually fish a LOT more?
I do believe that shoreline access to fishing locations has been reduced significantly, but there are still opportunities for shore anglers to wet a line if they want to. Increasing shore access will be a difficult, uphill battle because many of the people paying high property taxes on their water front homes won't want to share their view with a new fishing dock - much less tolerate the slight increase in traffic around their home.
I do believe hunting will continue to suffer. The ridiculously high prices some people are willing to pay to lease hunting land will continue to push more and more people to the already overcrowded tracts of public land. Combine that with the fact that most hunters don't share very well and your bound to push a few more to other activities. |
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| I don't think Wisconsin is being hit as hard. Texas license sales are down 17% from last year, Ohio is down 4%, North Carolina is down 40%, Oregon is down 20% and Vermont has dropped 20% over the last 20 years. Hunting sales have increased in Texas, Arkansas and Ohio. |
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| Some very good discussion on this topic... Indeed..... Fun to think about fishing while driving to work, trimming the trees, loading the woodbox..... In the shower.....
The biggest thing I take from these conversations is the emotions that avid anglers of any and all skill level ENJOY..... Really fun to have that tug at the other end of the line.... That's after the breathless, chuck full of memories in preparing to hit the shore or the landing..... And then the rod(reel, line, lure, etc) drives that incredible feeling into your wrists..... IT'S a good one, get then net.... Or that internal prayer you start telling yourself about how much you want to CPR this pig.....
In 2009 let's all of us avid anglers (with no regard to level of skill) try and transfer the "fun" experience we know as angling.... Everything in life ebbs and flows and perhaps fishings decline is just a chance to rally and help make America the proud country our ancestors worked so hard to create....
Rock on America and get the net! |
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