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| Anyone hear any rumors regarding union vote and what results are? I'd hate to see wisconsin loose another long term business . | |
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| just what was on the news last night. Doesnt look good. 2000 jobs on the line and the union will not support the offer. the news said the offer was a pay cut for new hires and the abuility to bring in a temp agency for these new employees. also cuts to the insurance pkges and doing away with the old pension plan and replacing it with a 401k. not sure of the details but the union leaders said the offer was junk! looks like Merc will no longer be in fondy if you ask me. id say there will be a couple thousand skilled workers on the street looking for work. Its a sad day and my loyalty to Merc though half at fault here will be gone if the motors arent built close to home. Sad Sad day and i have a bad fealing in my gutt!
irononic that the Governor also anounce he wouldnt seek another term on the same day. heard JL French is done in sheboygan also... this is bad! | |
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Location: Berlin | It really is a shame. Bad for us good for Oklahoma. Lets just hope all these lines make it there and some don't magically find their way to China. I feel bad for everyone involved. | |
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| this was another repeat, the union responce was exactly like Newpage...I guess the jobs don't mean enough for them | |
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| Hard to imagine when it gets down to the nitty griity that someone would not opt to keep there job is this changing times. The union is so far out it! They dont even seem to notice or except that so many other non union large company's have had to make these same changes to compete and remain open business. I hope there employees realize once they are gone they are gone! | |
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| ya whats another 2000 jobs out of fondy anyway! just another 2000 housholds with a mortgage payment that cant be made on an unemployment check! another 2000 jobs that the state wont get the payroll tax matched. 2000 jobs gone that offered health insurance for the family or and now thanks to the state live in partners and there kids. whats 2000 jobs worth of Social security comming off the check and sent in to the feds .... what about the jobs in the aria in cardboard and crates for shipping and trucking that merc supplied loads and kept the wheels turning.. Brass ? does anyone have any idia how many companies around the aria have Merc as a primary account? people hafta wake up! Tecumsah products in new holstien employed 3000 at one plant alone... the company tried to move for years and did... guess what! Belly up and now what are we gonna put on our jiffy's Gone . Gilson Gone , French Gone , kenosha Gm Gone , why? cant make any money for the stock holders . taxes and regulation non stop! Paper mills closeing and being force to dredge up pcb's 30 ft below the riverbottom for millions from a time where the entire world dumped there crap! guess what...Belly up! Hey Fon du lac YOUR PROPERTY VALUE JUST WENT DOWN BY 20% LAST NIGHT! but taxes on the place went up another 10% Wake up ! | |
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| 2000 jobs that would stay here for now if the union knew how to read the handwriting on the wall...it' simple to read... WE WILL MOVE TO THE SOUTH AND YOU WILL LOOSE YOUR JOBS IF THIS CAN'T BE DONE, WE ARE GIVING YOU ADVANCED NOTICE THAT THIS IS OUR ONLY OPTION.
The union will be to blame on this loose of jobs. | |
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| "Guest
Posted 8/18/2009 2:13 PM (#84210 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote
this was another repeat, the union responce was exactly like Newpage...I guess the jobs don't mean enough for them "
Take a look at all the jobs across the street from the Kimberly Mill at the USW office. Maybe the Mercury workers should talk to a few of the paper mill ex-workers.
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| They need to wake up and realize it's 2009 and look around them. I'm non-union and took a 43% temporary paycut this year to keep our doors open and a paycheck coming in. Before we cast ultimate judgement on the Merc union, I'd like to know what their current wages are, what they've given up already, and what was proposed. If I got one more pay-cut, I was taking the lay-off instead and letting the chips fall where they may. Got to the point that I was nearing unemployemnt wages. If that's the case with them, then what the heck, nothing to lose I guess. Also, they may see writing on the wall that we don't. Take American Axle for example. They bullied their workers into taking 60-70% pay-cuts (some people making less than $9/hr now) on the promise that just half of the jobs would stay here. They took the cut and AM darn there outsourced all their work overseas anyways. A great big f-u, ha-ha. Hard to cast judgement without all the facts. | |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Don't pass judgement on what you don't know. While I too would hate to see the area lose 2000 jobs, blaming the union 100% for it without knowing what was in the contract doesn't make sense.
Hopefully both Merc managment and the union will negioate in good faith and help make sure that both Mercury and the 2000 employees come out of this in the best possible position. | |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | All true statements more info is needed here before we judge but judge we will do! corperations owned by stockholders are responsible for one thing! show a return on investment or heads will roll and a CEO will be braught in who will do the dirty work. its something how in a market with some but little competion unlike the car markets and such merc still cant show enough profit to pay a good living or stay in wisconsin. I know where i put a lot of responsibuility for this! The bull###+ Green movement back a few years. the attack on 2 stroke motors accross the board, one of the most efficiant motors ever designed is being replaced with something that has 4 times the moving parts. rediculus money spent on Reasearch and devlopment by Mercury to produce an engin before its time pushed out early due to government pressure. How many optimax powerheads did merc hafta replace? bombi has 2 stroke sled motors 600's with DSI that put out like 125 hp and get 20+ to the gallon and run cleaner than a 4 stroke. WTF! HEY VERDADIO"S are too much money! a 40 hp tiller from merc is 5+ grand! ARE YOU KIDDING ME! and they cant make a go of it? who knows what standards they hafta comply to by 2010 or 15 .... keep voting for nut jobs! wait till your pickup will be mandated to get 35mpg and the thing is made out of aluminum and costs 50 grand with a 4 banger and 8 speed transmition that is forced out before the bugs are out.... sad sad day! at the Merc National a statement was made that rumors of the tournament comming to an end were false. A Merc mandated tournement put on in fond du lac for loyal merc owners , employees and family's? Now what? Leave a state serounded by water , the misssissippi , great lakes , bay of green bay , wisconsin river , inland lakes and the baggo chain for a state called....Oaklahoma? is there even a lake in oklahoma? im getting more upset about this every min.... EMPLOYEES of Merc! send your union reps in and get something done! | |
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| Bradley, you're paragrahs read like union contract language. 
I agree with Brad B. The other thing is, all unions are different, I've seen and worked with the good, the bad, and the ugly. Hopefully both sides can come to some kind of an agreement that will keep Mercury in Fond Du Lac. the repercussions will be great if they don't. | |
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| The union has a choice, keep the better paying job or loose it. Pretty simple. This economy is no atmosphere for the union to attempt to play hardball, Mercury will leave to stay alive. So yes, if Mercury leaves it is the union's fault on this one. | |
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| Having both been a union worker and a non-union manager I will tell you that there is no better way to screw something up than to let union stewards and business reps make a decision. They are just middle men taking your dollar. When the jobs are gone they are off to their next opportunity to scavange on the working man.
Break you dependence of unions and make you own decisions. | |
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| The easiest answer to the problem, maybe too late though. QUIT buying Jap motors! | |
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| They said on the news they estimated 5900 jobs would be lost in the area if Merc left (including Merc employees, suppliers, service work, etc.)
From what I have read, I have zero doubt that Merc will leave if a new agreement is not reached. I think maybe the union is still thinking (hoping?) it's all a big bluff. This is a company that will do whatever it has to do to stay in the game, and sadly I think they will leave in the end. | |
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| I want to know what the STATE(Doyle) is doing to keep this company here. That, in my opinion, has as much bearing on Merc not moving to OK, as the union concessions will. So far, he's been silent.
What say you Doylie? What are you going to do to keep Merc in the state?!
My personal opinion? I think this state is unfreindly to industry, and Merc is gone.
Sad day for Fondy, and the state.
Edited by Shep 8/19/2009 11:50 AM
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Location: McFarland, WI | The anti manufacturing attitude of the Doyle administration has trashed the state economy. Every resident will eventually be paying off a huge state deficit because of the resultant loss of state revenue. I for one may have to leave the state when I retire. As a past member of two unions I agree that union leadership rarely represents the line worker. They are in bed with the politicians and look out for their own interest. They spend the money on politics and now they can't cover the benefit packages. Look who financed Doyle. They now hope for government health insurance to bail their butts out. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I know Mercury is hurting like everyone else. But it also appears that they are using this time as an advantage to "clean union house". Many are "at fault" and it is unfair to point fingers at 1 or 2. | |
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Location: Menasha, WI | What, exactly, do you think Doyle (or any other politician) could do? I hear this whining about supposed anti-manufacturing attitudes from the state govt, but no one can seem to state what it is that is so bad. News flash: Manufacturing jobs are being lost across the country, even in states that are hostile to workers; it is not a phenomenon unique to Wisconsin.
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Viking - 8/19/2009 12:44 PM What, exactly, do you think Doyle (or any other politician) could do? I hear this whining about supposed anti-manufacturing attitudes from the state govt, but no one can seem to state what it is that is so bad. News flash: Manufacturing jobs are being lost across the country, even in states that are hostile to workers; it is not a phenomenon unique to Wisconsin.
Agreed! Anyone ever read books like the World is Flat? Experts have been making predictions for years that 90% (throwing that figure out there) of manufacturing in this country will be gone and sent to other countries or jobs will be replaced with automation. In this case, the job could go to a different state. It's different............. why them and not us? Is it union? Anti-manufacturing attitudes? Taxes too high? Mercury shopping around for best deal? All of the above?
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| All of the above, Dennis. But, B & C are State Govt responsibility.
Yah, Viking. Spoken like a member of the liberal education system in this state. What is Doyle to do? WHATEVER it takes to help keep these companies, and jobs here! That's what! Lower taxes, do away with useless programs and entitlements, reduce the of the UW system, lower property taxes, income taxes, business taxes. Stop double, triple, and quadruple taxing our auto and boat sales. In general, make WI a place where companies want to come and set up shop, again. We have the best workforce in the world here. Always have. Let's keep them working. WI is, and has been one of the highest taxed states. Why? Doyle is silent on this situation, as he has been silent on all the recent departures. All he wants to do is raise taxes on those of us who work, and give out more to the people who don't want to work.
I too, have been on both sides. Card carrying member of IBEW, and IAMAW(same as the Merc Union), and nonunion, which I am now. I'm doing much better since I parted ways with the IBEW in 1992, and started negotiating my own salary and benefits. If my company came to me today, and told me to keep my job, I'd have to take a cut, I probably would. I'd ask for how long, and if it was temporary, I'd deal with it. If not, I'd be looking. But that would be my choice. I don't need anyone negotiating for me.
Edited by Shep 8/19/2009 1:37 PM
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| The county is working on a package to try to keep Merc here, but I have not heard Merc company officials blame the government at all.
Some of the employees want their money, and don't care if the company dies giving it to them:
"They signed a four year deal and they should honor it. If they don't, they can leave" - Robin Schwartz, Mercury Marine employee | |
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| My B-I-L is on the county board. With that, I don't have high expectations. | |
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| The unions, lately, have been trying to force the upper hand and the only results have been devastating. Kimberly, Riverside and now Merc., it is amazing how they just ignore the writing on the wall and then attempt to get sympathy when they force a mill closing. | |
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Location: Menasha, WI | I'll refrain from the name-calling, Shep. Nastiness aside, you've failed to explain why those extremely vague things you list would keep Mercury here now nor do you explain how those states that give corporations the shirts off their backs are losing manufacturing jobs as well (and at the same time failing to provide their citizens w/ proper education and other essential govt services). Since you made the point and seem to be sticking to it, I'll ask again. What specifically can Doyle, or any other politican do to keep Merc here? Hint (nothing)
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| The union members at Merc belong to the wrong union, if they belonged to the teachers union Doyle would take care of them! Doyle's not running for re-election so what does he care. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Funny Scottp:
The governor kept Tommy Thompson's QEO in place for 6 years (promised to get rid of it). Teachers received settlements at a maximum of 3.8% (salary and benefit increases). The last few contracts health insurance ate up most if not all of it. As a teacher of 30+ years I can remember friends in industry getting double and triple my increases. And all of this was mandated. People have short memories, when Tommy Thompson made this mandatory; teachers were receiving 3.8% total packages while others were benefiting from a great economy and many were getting double digits. Don't believe me, look it up. Now and only now, when the economy sucks and many are getting zero increases is the BS repealed. I will guarantee you that when the economy recovers (and it will) and business is back to usual, some great representative will reintroduce the idea again (and it will pass again) Doyle is NOT doing the teachers any favors by getting rid of the QEO now. Sorry for the vent and getting off topic......... but he started it........... I'm telling
Edited by Sunshine 8/19/2009 4:58 PM
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | "Kimberly, Riverside and now Merc., it is amazing how they just ignore the writing on the wall and then attempt to get sympathy when they force a mill closing."
Unions had little or nothing to do with the closings/reduction at most paper mills in the fox river valley. Yes, many of the paper mills were union, and yes, many of them are no longer in business. But these two facts are NOT related. Heating costs, location relative to raw materials, location relative to market, and the age of the machinery involved doomed most of the plants so often held high in an effort to shame union labor. Another thing to keep in mind is the difference in heating costs a plant in Wisconsin incurs as compared to a similar plant in the southern states. The facility I work at spends tens of thousands of dollars on heat each winter - costs that our competitors in Texas and other southern states never incur. For a medium sized company like ours, our winter heating costs are as much as 10 to 15% of our annual profit.
How does this have anything to do with the union at Merc? No clue if it has anything to do with it, just the same as most of the people adding their opinions on the emotionally charged topic.
Can one of you FACTUALLY show me the difference in business taxes in Wisconsin as compared to where ever Merc is talking about moving to? Or share how much money that state is offering as an incentive to lure Merc out of Wisconsin?
I too have an opinion on this, but prefer to temper that with a few facts from time to time. I find that my opinions tend to carry a bit more weight when based in fact... | |
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| Sorry for striking a nerve sunshine, you are obviously a teacher, and as far as getting 3.8% a year that's not to bad, actually better than what I've been getting the last fifteen years of being a card carrying, dues paying member of the International Union of Operating Engineers, we are happy if we get 3% a year, and there have been contracts with less than 3%. So you are preaching to the wrong guy. | |
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| Brad B
The paper mills mentioned were due to the union. My wife was the President's assistant at Riverside and was the one who prepared all paperwork for the attorneys, board meetings and negotiations along with dictates. My cousin was 2nd in command for HR at Kimberly.
-"age of the machinery involved" Riverside had updated equipment
-"Heating costs" I hope you are not serious about that statement, the mills are heated by the steam pipes which also powered the machines, paper mills are hot no matter where they are. Even the offices for riverside were heated with steam from the mill.
Again, Merc is not hiding the fact that they need concessions or they will have to re-locate to survive. The union refuses and the plant closes as predicted...so the union is not at fault?
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| Read the followong headlines... What's wrong with this picture?? Madison — The Legislature's budget committee signed off Tuesday on a plan to spend $47.1 million for two train sets without a competitive bid. and this gem... "Transportation Secretary Frank Busalacchi insisted taxpayers got a good deal." and another quote... "What we've done is we tried to protect the taxpayers here, and I think we've done that," Busalacchi told the committee. Our Gov is out of touch with the people and how we make our living in WI... Dominic
Edited by Purple Skeeter 8/20/2009 8:39 AM
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| http://www.jzorn.com/Merc%20Pg%201-2.pdf
Here is the impact of Mercury moving from WI.
Viking, just calling it as I see it. I gave specifics. I'll get a little more specific. Cut the size of the UW system. Why do we need all the redundancy in this state. We have UW Campuses all over the place. Why? They aren't nearly full. I say cut all but the top 4. They certainly aren't self sufficient. Just think how much tax money could be saved. | |
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Location: McFarland, WI | Wisconsin is ranked anywhere from 39th to 47th by various business organizations. By comparison, Minnesota ranks 10 or 11th. Nationally it is not considered a business friendly state. Regulatory fees, environmental cost, cost associated with siting, litigation, labor, are considered in these surveys and all are influenced by governmental policy. Bottom line is this state is more expensive and its fiscal policy is terrible. I love this state but if I was starting my business it would not be here. | |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | "-"Heating costs" I hope you are not serious about that statement, the mills are heated by the steam pipes which also powered the machines, paper mills are hot no matter where they are. Even the offices for riverside were heated with steam from the mill. "
Do you find me ignorant? Honestly?
Ask you sister's boyfriend's cousin's next door neighbor that worked in the boiler room at one of the two plants you mentioned if the steam consumption at each facility was constant year round or if there is a greater draw in the dead of the winter. Then put a pencil to the cost to produce that extra amount of steam used each winter and tell me its not a significant amount. I didn't think steam was free - maybe I'm wrong on that too... jeesh...
I find it hard to believe you can't accept there is more at play in these situations than a big old mean greedy union.
Do you have any idea how much it costs to produce
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Larrys -
I've seen those surveys too. Any chance you've ever seen one that tries to estimate how much more it costs the average company to operate in Wisconsin because of those factors? | |
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Location: Menasha, WI | Shep - 8/20/2009 8:54 AM http://www.jzorn.com/Merc%20Pg%201-2.pdf Here is the impact of Mercury moving from WI. Viking, just calling it as I see it. I gave specifics. I'll get a little more specific. Cut the size of the UW system. Why do we need all the redundancy in this state. We have UW Campuses all over the place. Why? They aren't nearly full. I say cut all but the top 4. They certainly aren't self sufficient. Just think how much tax money could be saved. A) You didn't give any specifics on what any politician could do to keep Merc here. The list of "policy" options you provide is simplisitic RW talk radio boilerplate to be kind (see anyone can make broad generalizations). B) They aren't nearly full? Wrong! Even at UWO, we increase our enrollment every year and we're still turning away students. Investment in the UW System pays back $10 in economic activity for every dollar invested. If you'd prefer WI to be like Alabama, your plan would be ideal.
C) The bottom line is that you're whining about the loss of manufacturing in the state of WI even though it's a national phenomenon. It's not the state's supposed anti-business climate and taxes that are the problem. It's like whining about the flu while you're suffering from a gunshot wound.
Edited by Viking 8/20/2009 10:29 AM
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| Brad...on this you do not know what you are talking about, working in a mill does not give you clairvoyance into management. My family has been in paper mills for decades. Besides my wife and cousin, my father was a fireman for KC (ran the boilers), my uncle is one of the top millwrights for KC also...travels all over the country, while in retirement, for mill design and set up on a consulting basis. But hey, your wisdom exceeds everyone else’s knowledge, I understand.
The trend in Wisconsin has been to close down mills in this state and transfer the jobs to the south. The unions are the reason for it. In the case of Riverside, they closed that mill because the productive rate of the union was way under the expected output where the production mill part of Riverside did not make a profit for over 6 years...in fact the it was putting the company in the hole. It was not due to demand or competitiveness but the percentage of bad material that was being produced and damaged after production. It was 36% higher than any other mill! That is a people problem. The family had enough and didn't want to loose any more money but they kept the converting plants and guess where they got the paper....the southern sates. It is cheaper to buy the raw rolls from the south and have them trucked up here than to have them produced up here just 2000' away at their own paper mill.
Fox River sold because Bob Buchanan wanted to retire and his kids did not want the business. How do I know? We are family friends with Bobby and Bonnie and again, my wife worked in the head office with Bob. So yes Brad...there are people who know what they are talking about.
Like it or not, the unions are pushing the envelope during a time they do not have the power to be doing so. Companies are leaving in swarms and it is not due to heating costs.
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| I think this problem is much simpler than anyone understands.
Mercury management feels they can only remain competitive buy reducing costs in its manufactoring and the employess feel they have contract that should be honored. Both legimate arguemnts. The problem is that Mercury has all the leverage. I have always been a loyal Merc fan. Should they leave the state, I think I will be just one of legions that shop around for my next motor.
Take care,
Jim O | |
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| So you think WI is a business freindly state, Viking? If so, I'll stop now.
I wasn't talking about UW-O. That's one I'd keep. I'm talking UW-Fondy, UW-Superior, UW-Ashland, UW-BF Egypt, etc. Those are certainly not nearly full to capacity.
Ah, the RW Conspiracy accusation. Typical.
Edited by Shep 8/20/2009 11:44 AM
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Location: Menasha, WI | That's not what I'm saying at all. WI could certainly make improvements but it is certainly not the hell hole you portray it to be. Investing in a diverse, high-tech economy would go a long ways to stabilizing the economy in this state (see MN for example). My point is (for the third or fourth time) Merc's leaving WI has far less to do with WI economic policies than it does with national and global economic trends. If you don't see that then I'll stop.
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | RNT -
So you know what your talking about because your related to people, but I have no idea what I'm talking about because I've taken the time to view many different perspectives of the situation and read countless articles on what happened, and developed an opinion on the subject independent of my own personal experiences.
Yeah, it all makes sense now. Unions are the anti-crist reincarnated.
For the record, I don't work in a paper mill. I am part of management. I have a degree is in Chemistry and Mathematics.
TRY to consider this... If the labor force what the ONLY problem with the mills you have mentioned and they truly could have been profitable without a union work force, why didn't someone buy them, fired all the employees, and started over?
Will the union accept the changes proposed by Mercury? I certainly hope they do. However, if Mercury and the union fail to find a common ground, I can't assume the union is the ONLY reason for Mercury leaving. Your position appears to be that everything else is equal between the two locations and the only possible difference is the wage and benefit package between these two locations. How can you possible know that??? | |
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| "TRY to consider this... If the labor force what the ONLY problem with the mills you have mentioned and they truly could have been profitable without a union work force, why didn't someone buy them, fired all the employees, and started over?"
Why?? Because the mill itself could not be sold without whoever buying it having to take over the PCB water pollution fines and responsibility that is attached to the building. No company wants to voluntarily take on that expense and responsibility. If you are in management you should know that fact.
Sorry, when I have immediate relation, including a wife, who were heavily involved in the closing of the two mills then yes, I know better than you on the main reasons the mills were closed. Just for the record, I am not anti-union, I just realize the unions are the biggest reason for mills leaving...its reality. The times do not support what the unions are demanding right now.
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | You will not convince me with "I know because..."
"I know because" is not a reason. It's emotion. Reasons can be discussed and debated. Emotion can not be. Let's just drop it and both hope something happens to keep Mercury here in the valley.
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| "Just for the record, I am not anti-union, I just realize the unions are the biggest reason for mills leaving...its reality."
Imagine if the internet never existed.....this debate would be taking place on a note pad........errrrr Paper. Perhaps there is more to why the paper mills are closing than just the union? The world is not black and white, never will it be. | |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | and the fact that the state is spending our tax money and also making the mills dig up river bottom 30 feet below the current river bottom.. mixing up the silt and re-introducing contamination that has been burried below 30 feet of mud. this is crazy and at the time the polution was dumped there was no regulation or problem with it at all. everything went into the river! the city dump flowed into the river for crying out loud! to hold the paper mills responsible for millions and millions has cost the state much more in lost tax revenue over the long haul . loss of jobs and tax revinue down the road. being compeititive with a 3rd world country making ars whipe is hard the way it is but add to that a massive debt emposed by the state for something that was done so so long ago without complaint and holding todays companies responsible because they are the only ones left with so called deep pockets is not productive. in my opinion we may be causing more dammage than good and we are turning around re introducing this silt into the water system again. also trucking it to where? down the road to expose the crap to another water table..... sounds silly to me! | |
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| I sure hope every one of you arguing has a Merc hanging off the back of their boat!!! If not, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, not the unions. If people didn't buy inferior Japanese motors made on 50 cents per hour or less labor, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and all Merc motors would still be made in America also. Buy American or continue to watch our manufacturing cities die like the steel cities did. You think Mercs cost cutting will stop by moving to a non-union southern plant? Get real! That move will be countered by the competition. Unless the good ole boys down south are willing to work for minimum wage with no bennefits, OR people stop buying Jap Crap, ALL those jobs WILL go overseas eventually. How will you blame the unions then? Start yelling at the people buying Japanese motors and leave your fellow Americans trying to make a descent wage alone. | |
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| non-union - 8/20/2009 5:10 PM
I sure hope every one of you arguing has a Merc hanging off the back of their boat!!! If not, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, not the unions. If people didn't buy inferior Japanese motors made on 50 cents per hour or less labor, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and all Merc motors would still be made in America also. Buy American or continue to watch our manufacturing cities die like the steel cities did. You think Mercs cost cutting will stop by moving to a non-union southern plant? Get real! That move will be countered by the competition. Unless the good ole boys down south are willing to work for minimum wage with no bennefits, OR people stop buying Jap Crap, ALL those jobs WILL go overseas eventually. How will you blame the unions then? Start yelling at the people buying Japanese motors and leave your fellow Americans trying to make a descent wage alone. :)
OK, do you happen to know the percentage of parts for Merc motors that are made out of this country? I think you would be suprised. The average company that has "Made In America" lables has 60% to 80% of the product made over seas. By fedral law you only have to have 10% of the product made OR assembled in the US to have it labled Made In America. Every person not having a Merc is not the cause. | |
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| "Every person not having a Merc is not the cause."
How true. It's the union's fault.
Why are jobs going over-seas?
It's the union's fault.
Why did the economy take a slide?
It's the union's fault.
My McBreakfast was served cold this morning. Pretty sure that was the union's fault too. I'm also pretty sure the union caused the flu, head aches, constipation, and ugly babies. Although that last one is a different kind of bad union.. | |
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| And at one point, wasn't a Merc made almost completely in the USA? Sure, you can say the current microcosm of the situation isn't because of that. The problem with the big picture is though and rooted back when people started selling out their neighbors and country for cheap Japanese motors and let them get a foothold in the market. As their market share increased, Merc had to start sending work and parts overseas until we find ourselves where we are today. Hard to compete with wages measured in cents per hour. People buying Japanese motors IS the problem! If people don't buy them, there is no issue here to discuss. | |
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| I don't want to get into a bash fest here, however I can't sit back and allow untrue statements to be told. I happen to be close to the Kimberly mill closing. The union had very little to do with it. The major factor was that they are a non-integrated mill, meaning they must purchase pulp and power. Very few non integrated mills can make it nowadays unless they are producing a specialty product. Oh and the comment that it doesn't cost mills to heat the plant is ridiculous. Our steam demand is at minimum 33% higher in the winter months. Cold weater not only necessitates building heat, but process heating as well. The Kimberly mill had good assets, and good people, but the high costs of pulp and power caused their demise. | |
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| RE: mercury union vote
Off topic again guys,al this is the Mercury Thread | |
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| Listening to you people makes me laugh. Do you not realize that it is not "Mercury" making this decision it is Brunswick do you think Brunswick cares about Fond du Lac. Wake up people they are a corporation and they "Brunswick" is going to move to which ever location is more feasible to them. And for our great Governer Doyle the union asked him to come to their talks and they recieved no answer from him. Way to back the union Doyle.  With this economy everyone needs to make adjustments if the union does not they will all be looking for jobs in the area and we can thank the stuborn union. And yes I do belong to a union | |
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| Guest - 8/20/2009 5:43 PM
I don't want to get into a bash fest here, however I can't sit back and allow untrue statements to be told. I happen to be close to the Kimberly mill closing. The union had very little to do with it. The major factor was that they are a non-integrated mill, meaning they must purchase pulp and power. Very few non integrated mills can make it nowadays unless they are producing a specialty product. Oh and the comment that it doesn't cost mills to heat the plant is ridiculous. Our steam demand is at minimum 33% higher in the winter months. Cold weater not only necessitates building heat, but process heating as well. The Kimberly mill had good assets, and good people, but the high costs of pulp and power caused their demise.
New Page went to the union and told them they cannot keep the mill open under the current contract...yes because of prices. The union refused to help via their contract so mill closed. If the union would have conceded things in the contract, as many other mills have, they would still be working.
As for heat, 80% of paper mills rely on the steam for heat. In fact since the 1980's many mills temp. went much higher after the asbestos insulation was removed and replaced with fiberglass which does not insulate as well. The steam demand being 33% higher is much different than saying energy cost for that steam goes up 33%. The cost of operation to produce 33% more steam is negligible.
Merc has a union that is saying if they don't get what they want then Merc can leave. How else is that supposed to be taken?
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | "The steam demand being 33% higher is much different than saying energy cost for that steam goes up 33%. The cost of operation to produce 33% more steam is negligible. "
How much easier can we spoon feed this to you and you STILL not get it?
33% more steam = 33% more steam has to be produced = 33% more spent on producing steam.
Do you have ANY idea how much it cost to produce steam? Look it up....
Union labor may be a PART of the reason for plant closures, but it won't be the ONLY reason if Mercury closes and it WASN'T for any paper mill in the area either...
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| Sure it's the unions fault. It always the unions fault with some people. Just because they're a union. Some people are spiteful and jealous and will never change their tune. Without any facts, they expect the union to always accept whats offered to them with no resistance or they're labeled the bad guys and the reason for everything economically wrong. Again, with no facts to back it up. All while they sit behind their keyboard as critics, enjoying their pension, a lifetime of great wages, and a Yamaha hanging off their boat. Pathetic!
All this criticism and nobody even knows what was offered to them. | |
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| Brad B - 8/20/2009 6:59 PM
"The steam demand being 33% higher is much different than saying energy cost for that steam goes up 33%. The cost of operation to produce 33% more steam is negligible. "
How much easier can we spoon feed this to you and you STILL not get it?
33% more steam = 33% more steam has to be produced = 33% more spent on producing steam.
Do you have ANY idea how much it cost to produce steam? Look it up....
Union labor may be a PART of the reason for plant closures, but it won't be the ONLY reason if Mercury closes and it WASN'T for any paper mill in the area either...
Brad I'm not going to argue, you are not correct on this. If you want to be correct then at least research the dynamics and functions of a boiler system. Out putting 33% more steam does not equate to a 33% cost increase to produce that steam, it is far from it. Do you need me to PDF you the procedures and operation of boilers? What is needed to boil water and then to maintain that evaporation rate under pressure compared to water input? Hell, can you even tell me the ave. temp. drop of the steam when it hits the machine compared to when it exits the boiler?
Mercury is stating a fact that if the union does not give on parts that they will move down south to stay alive so yes...the union is the deciding factor if Merc. will stay or close. You can't read it any other way.
"All this criticism and nobody even knows what was offered to them" Yes we do, it has been televised and the union is not keeping mute about it. It includes a pay freeze for new hires along with a very small pay increase for others, but the part the union is really upset about is Mercury will not promise to never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever leave Fond du Lac. They want a promise that no matter how bad Merc. looses money they will never leave. This stuff is not hidden, it is facts but not the soothing facts you are looking for.
Unions are loosing ground and membership at an alarming rate. There are many, many places the workers vote not to unionize and it is things like what is going on that is making their minds up. And if pointing out where unions are making huge blunders, and in return loosing their jobs, is going to be called anti-union then the unions are doomed at best.
I hope Merc. stays but it is looking doubtful | |
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| Just to spoon feed you Brad;
If the pressure of the steam was @ 470 and you needed 33% more you would increase the pressure to 625. You would only need to raise the temp. of the vapor 22.5 degrees to accomplish this, it would go from 400.8 to 423.3...a far cry from a 33% increase. | |
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| Sorry, wrong numbers. It would require a 40.7 degree increase from 448.1 to 488.8...a 9% increase. | |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Enough already. If you must continue to "not argue", send it via the messenger.
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| Sorry, can't let a comment like "spoon feeding me" slip by when your facts were wrong.
Well Merc's final offer is a pay freeze on current workers and a 30% reduction in pay for new hires. Sounds like the union will vote it down on Sunday. The CEO said if it not taken they will start re-locating jobs. Doesn't look good. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | The Milwaukee Journal HEADLINES for August 21st Mercury Marine threatens to leave if union vote fails 1,900 Fox Valley jobs at stake as move to Oklahoma is considered By Rick Barrett of the Journal Sentinel Posted: Aug. 20, 2009 Fond du Lac — The fate of hundreds of Mercury Marine Inc. manufacturing jobs will be decided in a union vote Sunday, and the outcome also may determine whether the 70-year-old company keeps its world headquarters in Fond du Lac. Mercury, one of the Fox Valley's largest employers, said Thursday that it will probably move its outboard engine manufacturing to Stillwater, Okla., unless its Fond du Lac union votes to accept contract concessions. Those concessions include a seven-year wage freeze and about 30% lower pay for new hires and employees called back to work from layoff. Mercury, which has a workforce of 1,900 employees in Fond du Lac, also said it would be unlikely to keep its world headquarters in Fond du Lac if the manufacturing goes to Stillwater, where the company has operated a factory for 30 years. Mercury will probably want to have its headquarters where the manufacturing is based, President Mark Schwabero said in an afternoon news conference at the Holiday Inn. "There won't be a job for them" if the concessions aren't approved, Schwabero said. Pulling out of Fond du Lac would cost Mercury, a division of Brunswick Corp., millions of dollars. Oklahoma state and local officials have offered to cover the costs in return for the jobs and taxes that the state would receive from the deal. Likewise, Wisconsin has offered to cover the costs of moving work from Mercury's plant in Stillwater to Fond du Lac, possibly doubling the company's manufacturing employment here over the next seven years. "We are comfortable no matter which way this goes," Schwabero said of the vote. "Our intention is to have a decision by the end of the summer for everything," including the company headquarters. Union disgusted Union leaders say they're disgusted by what they see as an all-or-nothing offer that could preserve jobs here now but is hard on the workforce and doesn't include long-term job guarantees. "I can tell you that no one on the bargaining committee is going to vote for this," said Mark Zillges, president of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Lodge 1947, which represents Mercury's 838 factory workers in Fond du Lac. The union might file an unfair labor negotiation grievance against the company, Zillges said Thursday. He predicted that there will be layoffs regardless of the outcome of the vote. Mercury has given many reasons why it must reduce its manufacturing costs and why Oklahoma might be a better place to make its engines. The global marine product market is less than half of what it was just a few years ago, according to the company, which is closely tied to Brunswick's recreational boat division. Since 2007, Brunswick has closed half its North American boat manufacturing plants to reduce its capacity amid a deep sales slump. Workforce cut in half Brunswick's marine workforce, which makes boats and engines, has been reduced by more than half. Some of the company's largest competitors have filed for bankruptcy and also have made drastic cuts in their manufacturing operations. This isn't a normal economic downturn for the boating industry. Nearly 75% of the jobs have been lost in the last two years, totaling more than 135,000 employees, according to Brunswick. The company says the demand for marine products in the United States has dropped to its lowest level in more than 40 years. Mercury must cut costs and consolidate operations, according to Schwabero. The Stillwater plant already has many of the advantages that company officials are seeking in Fond du Lac, such as lower wages for new hires and more flexible work rules. The Stillwater facility, which employs 376 people, is large enough to accommodate work now done in Fond du Lac. Mercury is trying to influence people with half truths and statements not included in the written offer, according to Zillges. "I think for spite they want to move some jobs to Oklahoma," he said. Crucial vote Both company and union officials have ratcheted up their efforts to sway Sunday's vote, which the company says is pivotal to its future. The loss of Mercury in Fond du Lac could drive the area's unemployment rate to 13%, similar to what happened after General Motors closed its SUV assembly plant in Janesville. Schwabero said the decision will rest on his shoulders, contingent on Brunswick's approval. Mercury has employees in Fond du Lac and Stillwater who have worked decades for the company and whose jobs are at stake. "It's not that any of them have done something wrong. This is about the reality of business conditions," Schwabero said. | |
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| non-union - 8/20/2009 5:40 PM
And at one point, wasn't a Merc made almost completely in the USA? Sure, you can say the current microcosm of the situation isn't because of that. The problem with the big picture is though and rooted back when people started selling out their neighbors and country for cheap Japanese motors and let them get a foothold in the market. As their market share increased, Merc had to start sending work and parts overseas until we find ourselves where we are today. Hard to compete with wages measured in cents per hour. People buying Japanese motors IS the problem! If people don't buy them, there is no issue here to discuss.
Incorrect. My union served McBreakfast was hot, but it took 4 guys to make it and cost me $84.78 | |
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Location: Berlin | He is also getting the Japanese and Chinese mixed up and there is a BIG difference. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I'm old enough to remember when we (US) were the bad guys with Europe because WE were making quality products cheaper. During the 50's and 60's we were the ones taking jobs away from European companies. At that point we said too bad, too sad. What goes around comes around in a global economy.
In this day in age, to blame people because they buy products from other countries is ludicrous. It's also short sighted to think that this is only happening to us. Things are bad all over, both in the states and globally. If there is a silver lining in all of this, the rest of world does not want to see us fail because we are all in this together. If the US collapsed may other countries would follow.
Like it or not we are in a global economy where everyone buys products from each other in the free market system. There is no turning back. It does no good to keep screaming buy American. We need to continue to find ways (the old American ingenuity) to compete with the rest of the world.
Nationally, many are saying that the STEM fields are our salvation. For now, we are the best creative thinkers out there. Our country has better creativity and problem solving skills than others. We need to capitalize on this. Paying someone $70,000 to watch parts move down and assembly line may not work any more. The union model may be outdated. Trying to convert back to protectionism politics is a short term solution. Building it better, smarter, and cheaper is a model that worked for the US in the past and will work now in this global economy. | |
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| "Likewise, Wisconsin has offered to cover the costs of moving work from Mercury's plant in Stillwater to Fond du Lac, possibly doubling the company's manufacturing employment here over the next seven years."
Now that's what I was looking for. Who, from the State Gov't actually said this?
Viking, I understand the Global aspect of our new economy. What I am arguing is the NATIONAL aspect. Our State is not friendly to manufacturing, plain and simple. Hasn't been for a long time, long before you got here from Queensland. I think the State could/should be in the negotiation now, and be offering Merc incentives to stay in Fond du Lac. The costs of moving jobs from Stillwater is a drop in the bucket compared to what the State will lose if Merc moves to Stillwater.
As for your RW Talk Radio comment. I don't listen to any talk radio. When I want to be entertained, I listen to Sports Talk, or come here and listen to how great MN is. Now that's entertainment!
Dennis, I agree with alot of what you said, but I don't think our manufacturing prowess was the reason we were looked at as the bad guy, globally. I think it was more our attitude towards the rest of the world. | |
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| Over the last year these companies that are making recreational products are being told by upper management & CEO'S to take drastic steps to reduce all overhead and cost to produce their products. So with Mercury sales slumping and economist call for a slow recovery in the economy. The union employees will not get what they want in the new contract.
SO WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ?
TJM | |
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Location: Berlin | I think there is a lot of info we do not know about. If faced with the decision between keeping your job at a lower pay/lower benefit or loosing it completely in this economy I can't see anyone letting them move to OK. Maybe Merc is trying to call their bluff or vise/versa but I just feel like we don't have nearly all the facts they do. It is a tough place to be for both sides and I hope it works out. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | TJM: I believe that they DO understand BUT taking a pay freeze for 7 years is very very difficult for any one of us to shallow. They will all be asking themselves the tough question when they vote. Am I better without my current job or am I better with receiving no pay increases for the next 7 years. Unfortunately many union official minds always think of this type of hard ball tactic as a big bluff and they try to convince union membership to call them on it. I'm still hoping for the "state" to get involved with midnight negotiations. Shep, When we returned from world war II we had very cheaper labor, new factories and we thought that our natural resources were limitless. We needed to provide jobs for returning war heroes and the female population that stepped forward during the war. Our factories were not destroyed or damaged during the war and the war put us in a full speed ahead manufacturing attitude. Combine this with our ability/want to provide goods to the rest of the world. I keenly remember having discussion with my dad and asking him why Europe hates us so much (in the 60's). They had aging factories or were rebuilding from the war and their employees were being paid way more than ours. Their costs were a lot greater than ours. At least this is what I remember from that period and I believe that the history books will confirm it. Back to 2009. Have any of you ever seen "Did Ya' Know" http://www.flixxy.com/technology-and-education-2008.htm This is a great You Tube video that describes the world we live in today and what we are up against. Edited comment: Rich, you and I must have been typing at the same time and we have mutual feelings. Sorry for the repeat of some thoughts.
Edited by Sunshine 8/21/2009 9:18 AM
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | TJM is correct. The employee's of Merc in both locations have no leverage in this fight! The Union is not acting in the best interest of themselves living to fight another day or looking out for there members in this case. If merc and other recreational sales are down to below half of what demand was 3 years ago then servival is at stake. remember that this is a corperation and stockholders demand a return on investment! with an estimated 5000 jobs in the Fondy aria dependant on merc marine this is a big big deal! also a big deal at the 30 year old plant in stillwater. ( you can bet the state of Oaklahoma is involved in this bidding war also.) The end result is another U.S. Plant closing added to what seems to be hundreads and hundreads a month when counting the smaller shops in the united states. The Union must step back and take the deal or just desolve and let the employee's who want to keep there jobs make that call on there own. OR ITS OVER and everyone is on the street! WHO IS TO BLAMB? UNION nope , MERC NOPE, it comes down to the noumbers sales is less than half of 3 years ago! SALES at the Lowest level in 40 YEARS! its not the china or japan or the fault of the folks who have a brand other than Merc on there boat! IM TIRED OF SIDETRACKING THE REAL PROBLEM!
Why a drop in demand from a couple years ago? Answer economy, ya but why? simple! Cost of energy! there has been nothing but an anti growth movement in the united states energy policy for the last 15 years. No new power plants , or oil refinaries built in like 20 years. No new wells dug no new nuke plants NOTHIng but windmills and attacks on our available energy. Taxes on fuel and massive mandates to companies like merc to produce cleaner motors at an unrealistic pace. i can buy entire car for less then what many spend on a new outboard alone! Also WaKE UP! what happend two years ago? Fuel costs went to a place where many couldnt afford to do any recreational boating! 3 or 4 bucks a gallon massive tax increases and fees are taking disposable income used for fishing, hunting and other recreational activities away from consumers. take a couple hundy out of the pockets of the people in this country and thats taking away the two hundread that they could have made a boat payment with or fill the tank buy ice , sandwiches and launch fee. ITs oUR own fAULT! We let our Goverment and its EnergY Policy along with there wastfull spending take our economy down! We were too busy recreating and working to give a shi+. Now we are all screwed! and only half way to the bottom out point! with governemnt spending as of late inflation over the next two years will rise im guessing low at 7% total! Do you have any idia what that alone means to your pay check? Since your take home is about 50% of your gross after all fee's taxes and so forth are paid you are looking at a 14% loss of TAKE HOME INCOME!
MERC Employee's Make the deal work and stay working until you can find another employer to offer you a better opportunity but until then ....The House payment must be made or you will be living in a two bedroom apartment complex with two parking stalls in the lot and telling yourself its not so bad they call it a condo! THINK ABOUT IT! Think about where this country is headed! THINK HARD AND MAKE YOUR DECISION~! | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | More news....... Mercury urges union to vote yes Posted on August 21, 2009 Mercury Marine executives held a press conference Thursday afternoon to outline the details of its contract proposal for employees in Fond du Lac, Wis., and express the urgency that union members approve the new contract when it comes to a vote Sunday.
"Without changes to the [existing] contract, the cost structure in Fond du Lac would not be competitive," company president Mark Schwabero said. "Our decision would be to, over time, start moving jobs out of Fond du Lac to other locations. "A yes vote says, at a minimum, we will keep the jobs that are here, here," he added. Schwabero said a no vote does not necessarily mean the end of all operations in Fond du Lac, which serves as the engine builder's world headquarters. There are about 1,900 employees in Wisconsin - 838 of them are union, mostly manufacturing, and the rest are involved in engineering, IT, marketing and parts. "That's all separate," he says. Mercury is restructuring its business to emerge from the economic downturn as a stronger company in a different and much smaller market, Schwabero explained. One possible outcome is the consolidation of operations in either Fond du Lac, Wis., or Stillwater, Okla. Representatives of the company and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Lodge 1947 have met during the last two weeks to negotiate needed changes to the existing four-year contract that was approved last year. Union members will vote at 9 a.m. Sunday on changes to their contract proposed by the company. Union leaders did not agree to the concessions at the conclusion of negotiations earlier this week. Chief union negotiator Dan Longsine told the Fond du Lac Reporter newspaper he's telling members to "vote their own conscience." He said the situation scares people, including him, when considering the potential consequences.
Mark Zillges, president of Local 1947, told the newspaper he will be voting against the proposals. What bothers him most is a provision that calls for bringing recalled employees back at a lower wage. "I told 'em I'll stand with them," Zillges said about the laid-off workers. "I've had immediate family ask, 'What about us?' I say, 'What about them, too?' I'll have to suffer like the next guy. Why should I gain and they'll suffer?" Negotiations with union representatives in Fond du Lac have centered on a new seven-year contract that incorporates changes in wages, benefits and operational flexibility. Mercury had hoped to reach an agreement Monday with the union leadership, but talks broke down and union officials said they would take Mercury's offer to a membership vote Sunday. Mercury's offer calls for no changes to wages for existing employees through 2012, with possible increases in 2012. Recalled employees and newly hired employees will receive a lower wage scale than current workers, but above average for similar jobs in the region, according Schwabero. The company is also offering cash incentives for early retirement or employees who may have opportunities elsewhere. Operational flexibility relates to such issues as overtime. Currently, overtime is on a purely voluntary basis. Under the new contract, the company would be able to schedule overtime on a non-voluntary basis, with certain limitations with respect to holidays, the number of hours per month and the number of weekends per year. Schwabero says this would give Mercury the agility and responsiveness it needs to produce more products on demand. Even when the recession ends, he expects dealers and boatbuilders won't be stocking up on engines as they have in the past. "We think agility and responsiveness are going to be critical on a going-forward basis," he said. — Melanie Winters \n [email protected] | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | I spent more years growing up in michigan than I have in wisconsin, but I can say this. I would like to know what the pay rate and all the bennys are for there employess. I am all for people making good money, but some times there is a line in the sand that is so far behind the unions that they passed it in good times and forgot what that line was there for. Meaning, when my grandparents stood watch on malbo irons pickets lines to get the unions into GM it was because my grandpa was dying from black lung and still had to catch and kill stuff to feed the family. Today most are fighting to keep there winnebago lake homes and hunting land up north. My grandpa drew the line in the sand the way most of yours did a long time ago and said we need better working conditions and enough money to live on. Greed came into play and the line has been passed by miles. Again, just scrapping by wages is not what we ask for, but get real...... I would bet that the truth be told, 858 jobs could be filled in 1 week by giving new hire guys 2/3rds of what these guys are making and a good profit sharing 401K plan. The union is hard nosed, because they want to keep there 120 acres of hunting land.
I can tell you this from my life, YOU DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN!! period.
Edited by stacker 8/21/2009 10:11 AM
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | i guess my entire rant sums up to one point! This is happening all over the country and people better wake up! Take a look at your 4 bedroom home and 4 car garage and be thankfull you have it! being able to spend 500 dollars on a weekend of boating or other family fun may become a thing of the past but be thankfull you can open the door on your shed and chip in for a couple cases of beer and Johnsonvilles and envite the neibors. look forward to building a white picked fence around your vegitable guardin as a nice pass time and using old Merc crates you got for a buck a piece so you dont hafta buy lumber. look forward to building it and keeping those bunnies out. THINK HARD ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THE NEXT TEN YEARS WILL BRING! THINK ABOUT IT TONIGHT! look at your wife and kids and think about what means something more to you than that Harly Davidson in the driveway and the next 500 dollar road cruze your going on with your buddies. Merc and all employee's buy into the turnaround you are prommised on the news all you want , be in denial all you want but we all know the direction we are headed! Yet the school will be added onto using a property tax increase with fewer studants enrolled than 3 additions ago. if you dont smell what we are standing in you better take a min and sniff around. Merc employee's Take the deal! too many households are at stake here. Older merc employee's who are hanging on for 3 years yet to retire need to shut up! Others cant afford to suck unemployment for 3 years before there retirement kicks in! | |
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| Unless I am missing something, I do not see where the workers have any power in this situation. If I had a family to feed I would take what I could get to keep my job. Any job is a good job in this uncertain economy. It is always easier to look for a new and better paying job while you are working and paying the bills that the other way around. It is tough to accept changing a contract that you thought was a done deal and having something else forced upon you.
This is a very tough thing for anyone to swallow and my heart goes out to these folks.
Take care,
Jim O | |
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| What Merc is asking is not out of line on what other mills have asked and unions accepted. Brillion Iron put a pay freeze, did some lay-offs. My brother-in-law was laid off but the company re-structured a bit of the mill and are now starting to call people back. He is not going back to his $28/hr old job but is in a new $17/hr job...beats un-employment. Great Northern is another example except they offered the union a 1% pay increase. They are not guaranteed a full 40 hrs...it varies...but again better than no job. When things are booming is the time to ask for more but don't make those demands in a big slump like right now.
As a side not, Avery-Dennison has had enough people leave to take Oshkosh Truck jobs that they may be looking to fill two positions soon. | |
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| ITS ALSO TIME TO STOP OVER PAYING TEACHERS 70,507 PLUS 36,213 IN FRINGE BENIFITS FOR A HALF YEARS WORK IS TO MUCH DONT YOU THINK SO DENNIS www.belling.com FIND PAY FOR PUBLIC SCHOOL EMPLOEES
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| The cost to produce 33% more steam is not neglibile if the boilers you run 24/7 are out of capacity and you need to fire up a third boiler (usually on natural gas) for seasonal heating load. | |
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| As a educated person working in a white collar job. I just went through getting my pension frozen, my wage increase frozen, my bonus plan axed, a headcount reduction all this at a very established very prestigious company in the valley! Our product a lot of people use in everyday life. A marine engine is a luxary item and we are in a survival of the strong economy mode. I think people that are going to be this stubborn thinking they are going to win are just being ignorant. Scream, hollar, petition, protest do what ever the hell you want to do, but big buisness is going to do whats best for them and in a tough economy. So wake up and smell the coffe cuz getting your wage froze and other benefits taken away may not be the worst thing in the world. Remind yourself of this......where am i going to go and make 20+ dollars a hour without a education?? I'm not trying to be conceded by saying that but its the truth whether you want to hear or not. I don't want to see mercury leave our area either but I hope people just use common sense when they vote. | |
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| The third boiler is a back-up. The boiler systems are designed to run the complete mill on a 75% capacity load. That is with all machines running at full spead and compensating for heat. It would be a very, very rare to have the back-up running along with the mains. | |
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| When people say the union employees have a tough choice to make, either lock in their pay for 7 years or vote no and be out of a job altogether, that's not even an accurate statement. If a union employee thinks the pay is too low, why would they not vote for the new contract, save their job, and then look for a new job with better pay on their own terms? It certainly makes more sense than voting no and being forced to look for a job in a down market with 900 other people who have similar skill sets and also need jobs. By voting for the new contract, the union employee is not saying they are forced to work there for 7 years. They always have a choice to find a new place of employment.
All of the reasons that everyone has been arguing: political, materials costs, taxes, etc are all not even worth arguing. The reality is that Mercury's costs are what they are, their sales have slumped with the economy (even moreso) and they need to cut costs. Whether you are a big corporation or run a one person business out of your home, you need to make money to stay in business. Mercury has said to the employees, to stay in business we need to do X. The employees either accept that or they lose their jobs. It's really not the rocket science that some make it out to be. | |
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| I guess when they announce the move on Monday we will see the Union thugs normal TV response--"we will cry with our union brothers"---as they did when Thomas Industries did the same earlier this year.
Crying with your union brothers does not pay the mortgage or put food on the table. Wake-up people! | |
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| " When people say the union employees have a tough choice to make, either lock in their pay for 7 years or vote no and be out of a job altogether, that's not even an accurate statement. If a union employee thinks the pay is too low, why would they not vote for the new contract, save their job, and then look for a new job with better pay on their own terms? It certainly makes more sense than voting no and being forced to look for a job in a down market with 900 other people who have similar skill sets and also need jobs. By voting for the new contract, the union employee is not saying they are forced to work there for 7 years. They always have a choice to find a new place of employment. "
Well said Smithwick! I got to say that if Merc had my back against the wall I vote for the new contract and keep my job for the time being until I could find something better. If there is something better out there.
Edited by Anonymous 8/21/2009 2:18 PM
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | you know whats really erie?
These 858 union guys will be making a life altering decision for over 10,00 people whos job will be gone supplying product to Mercury. Or was 67,000 jobs. I for get the number but it is to many.
I sent out a e-mailer and I have 80 people ready to take there jobs. | |
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| Very true Stacker.....very true!!! | |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | oh and i cant wait to here the news now! union officials filed a claim and complaint to the usBS department of fair labor bla bla bla on behalf of the 800 and some odd union employees who lost there jobs monday along with the other 1200 employees and another 3000 related areia buisnesses and contractors that merc marine made up the bulk of buisness for. back to you BILL! Thanks Ron.. and on to our next story , fond du lac man in a 9 hour stand off with police remains locked in his home and he owns Guns! The local swat team has the house serounded and half the neihborhood evacuated as the mans ex wife said he was talking about suicide. when police showed up at the mans home the man was loading multiple guns into his truck in the attached garage and police backed off calling in the swat team as the man was muttering ..." im packing everthing up and moving up north to become a hermit! im going in the house to take a nap and if you attemt to enter my home you will all get your you know whats handed to you! Now go away! Its been a long stand off we will keep you updated on this story, back to the studio and Jill..... ok thanks bill.... oh my thats terrible... according to police the man has 6 guns regeistered in his name inclucing a fully semi auto 3030 , a fully semi auto 22cal Rifle and a fully semi auto shotgun! more news from today , the governor after holding his fundraisor in china will now be flying to Mexico on his 13 month tour of the world working on building future relations between the state of wisconsin and potintial countrys looking to expand in the state. More breaking news bob Record PCB levels reported in the Bay of green bay leaves officials investigating possible causes. Eagle eggs arent hatching in the aria something we havent seen for 30 years. Local boat launches and river walks are being posted with signs saying dont eat the fish! No Swimming! and no living here homless people arent welcome. Cash for clunkers officials say was a huge success ! and car dealers go out of buisness for lack of cash flow in an unrealated story! now for the remaining tweny 5 min of our 30 min news cast we will go to the live recorded autopsy photo's of Michael Jacksons monkey Bubbles! wow that was a story jill, thanks for joining us, and i wish all of you a good night and a pleasant tommorw. see you next time.
Edited by bradley894 8/21/2009 2:53 PM
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| Sunshine - 8/21/2009 7:53 AM
I'm old enough to remember when we (US) were the bad guys with Europe because WE were making quality products cheaper. During the 50's and 60's we were the ones taking jobs away from European companies. At that point we said too bad, too sad. What goes around comes around in a global economy.
In this day in age, to blame people because they buy products from other countries is ludicrous. It's also short sighted to think that this is only happening to us. Things are bad all over, both in the states and globally. If there is a silver lining in all of this, the rest of world does not want to see us fail because we are all in this together. If the US collapsed may other countries would follow.
Like it or not we are in a global economy where everyone buys products from each other in the free market system. There is no turning back. It does no good to keep screaming buy American. We need to continue to find ways (the old American ingenuity) to compete with the rest of the world.
Nationally, many are saying that the STEM fields are our salvation. For now, we are the best creative thinkers out there. Our country has better creativity and problem solving skills than others. We need to capitalize on this. Paying someone $70,000 to watch parts move down and assembly line may not work any more. The union model may be outdated. Trying to convert back to protectionism politics is a short term solution. Building it better, smarter, and cheaper is a model that worked for the US in the past and will work now in this global economy.
Easy to say Dennis when you're in a profession where the chances of your work being outsourced for cents per hour is very unlikely. Though sometimes I think a foreigner would do a better job than some of the garbage we have teaching here. I guess it's hard for you to understand until you've walked in manufacturing shoes. All the stuff you say is nice and flowery. Too bad the same thing is happening in our engineering and development fields that you put so much confidence in. American engineers making a very modest wage are being replaced by imported engineers for $9 per hour. Guess that 4 year degree really paid off the American? No matter who develops something for us here, the Chinese, who do not honor international intellectual rights, are just waiting in the wings to reverse engineer the products and start manufacturing them there for pennines. Your theory is very flawed from lack of manufacturing knowledge, just like many others. The main approach to fight this is to fight dirty like them. Protectionism is realistically our best hope. | |
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| Where in the world do you hire an engineer for $9 an hour?
There is a big difference between teachers and manufacturing. 75% of all manufacturing jobs are classified as un-skilled labor but they are demanding a wage that exceeds the pay of most teachers, who do have to have a degree to perform their job.
It comes down to if you are going to insist a company pays well when times are good because they are making money hand over fist, you must also insist the opposite when times are rough and the company is loosing money. If they do not value their jobs enough to stop being selfish for the time being, then step aside, there are many people who would jump at the opportunity of filling their position. There are no shortages of workers at the moment. This goes way past the primary reason unions were started in the first place and it is reasons like this why unions are becoming less popular.
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| RNT - 8/21/2009 5:23 PM
Where in the world do you hire an engineer for $9 an hour?
Some from India, most from the former Soviet Union nations. It's no exageration. It's happening all over in the auto suppliers and elsewhere.
Good thing though is that I saw a Mexican VW plant unionized and went on strike! LOL Demanding 8.5% yearly wage increases, opposed to the 1% VW offered. Let's hope that spreads! | |
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Location: Elgin, Illinois | I kniow Dennis won't stoop to respond to a personal attack. But, I will. Your "a half's years work" comment betrays a lack of factual analysis that borders on the absurd.
Let's look at the typical comparison. 50 weeks at forty hours is 2000 hours for a typical manufacturing position. My wife is a teacher so I have some personal experience at the time devoted by her. She has 160 instructional days from 8:00 am to 5-6:00pm that she typical stays... So, allow me some fudge factor here and make it 9 1/2 hrs per day at the school building. Of course she usually spends another hour or two grading papers or preparing materal for the next day, so I'll just do 10 hours a day for those 160 days... 1600 hours. Now, she also has another 6 days of 8 hours or so that she devotes to getting her classroom ready and preparing for the year and 3 at the end of the year claoing up her room so that's another 70 or so hours. Then, she usually spends 2 or 3 hours every weekend, agin grading papers or preparing for the nextweek... Let's just do that for only 30 weeks, another 75 hours... Then, add in her required (and no extra pay) continuing education time... 40 hours at least a year... Now, where are we... 1600 + 70 + 75 + 40 thats just short of 1800 hours... If that manufacturing job has three weeks of vacation it is 1960 hours... So, the half time statement is just plain wrong...
If you want to be critical at least be accurate. And, just how much do you think a teacher should get paid? I want the people having that much influence over my children to be very well qualified and well paid, to keep the good ones. And, then there is something to be said for investing the time to get a Master's Degree and continuing education... that should be worth something.
And, to keep this on topic... I sure hope Mercury stays in Wisconsin. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Easy to say Dennis when you're in a profession where the chances of your work being outsourced for cents per hour is very unlikely. Though sometimes I think a foreigner would do a better job than some of the garbage we have teaching here. I guess it's hard for you to understand until you've walked in manufacturing shoes. All the stuff you say is nice and flowery. Too bad the same thing is happening in our engineering and development fields that you put so much confidence in. American engineers making a very modest wage are being replaced by imported engineers for $9 per hour. Guess that 4 year degree really paid off the American? No matter who develops something for us here, the Chinese, who do not honor international intellectual rights, are just waiting in the wings to reverse engineer the products and start manufacturing them there for pennines. Your theory is very flawed from lack of manufacturing knowledge, just like many others. The main approach to fight this is to fight dirty like them. Protectionism is realistically our best hope. For the record I did work in manufacturing. I worked for the Ladish company in Cudahy. My time there reinforced the need to go back and get my degree. I also work side by side with many people in manufacturing in my job as an engineering academy coordinator.
You're right that it is almost impossible to outsource teaching. Our version involves Virtual education where students do everything on the computer. It had created a loss for jobs. You have your head in the sand if you think teachers have not been effected. I have seen many many young, eager and excellent teachers given pink slips and told they are being layed off. He is also right that some countries (like India) are producing engineers eager to work for much less money than their counterparts in this country. But that is a small part of the story and you are taking way to many liberties in your analogy to react to everything on this thread.
I will not continue trying to defend my thoughts and opinions because I do not want to sabotage this thread. Man-up and/or sign your name or email me if you want to continue the conversation on a personal level. You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine.
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| And to think some people are mad that Brett Favre is playing for the Vikings. He is getting 25 million or 12 million for one year. Who wouldn't want 12 million at 40 years old. Just to play football. lol.. You can't blame anyone for that. | |
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| Please don't take any offense Dennis toward you line of work. I'm one of the few here that think educators below the college level are underpaid. You can't put a price tag on a good educator. Lots of garbage to weed out though. I never said you weren't affected. The teaching profession is just a different scenario and your time spent in manufacturing was in a different era. It has changed very quickly in the last decade.
You say the Indian and Slovac engineers are a small part now? So were foreign workers and outsourced parts not too long ago in manufacturing. A very slippery slope greased by people supporting foreign manufacturers. If we're not proactive, we're doomed in most sectors but the service industries. | |
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| Gotta love the outlook for our spiteful jealous country. Pablo and Jorge, the unionized "overpaid" Mexican line workers coming to America for vacation while former manufacturing and engineering workers wait their tables and clean their hotel rooms. LOL Yeah, got to love all you USA haters. Keep kicking your fellow Americans. You're going to love the results.  | |
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| I can't believe what I am reading. This is excatly what these corporations want. Good americans fighting with one another about jobs. Think about where we would be without unions. The wages would be a fraction of what they are now and we would probably be working 7 days a week for a lot less!!! If we all had balls like the union members to stick together instead of every man for himself and push back on the big corporations we would all be better off instead of sending jobs to everywhere under the sun but wisconsin. Again the fat cats get richer and the workers get screwed!!! Glad to be living the american/ outsourced dream!!!!!! | |
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| Yep, and people forget the sacrifices union workers made even during the good times. Most critics don't know what it's like to be on mandatory 6 day/10-hour shifts like back in 90's. Find out 10 minutes before your shift ends that you're working another 10, like it or not. Oh, those are the parts of the union contracts union-haters don't like to talk about. LOL Even more brutal swing shifts. Sure they made allot of money and they're "non-skilled" classified workers, but they possess the fortitude and grit skills that much more highly polished and paid do not possess. They're not the most productive manufacturing employees in the world for nothing! I've never been a union member, but I do enjoy my employer having to compete for my skills with the union force. Benefits me well! My wife was a union steel and auto worker for years, so I do have a little insight into their way of life and work. | |
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| you push buy American, You say it started with the Auto industry. I challenge you to look around your house to find stuff that is made in the US. We are a country of wants not so much needs (although that is begining to change in recent history) I'll bet 80% of the crap in your house is not made in the good ole USA! You won't change that situation and our government wont let you. You continue to want more and more for less yet you won't take less from your employer.............So long Merc. I know I'm not in the market for a new motor any more, actually I have a merc on a 19' for sale!!!!!! It's time to look out for number one and I can tell you this....my list of needs now outweighs my list of wants! | |
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| non-union - 8/21/2009 8:25 PM
Yep, and people forget the sacrifices union workers made even during the good times. Most critics don't know what it's like to be on mandatory 6 day/10-hour shifts like back in 90's. Find out 10 minutes before your shift ends that you're working another 10, like it or not. Oh, those are the parts of the union contracts union-haters don't like to talk about. LOL Even more brutal swing shifts. Sure they made allot of money and they're "non-skilled" classified workers, but they possess the fortitude and grit skills that much more highly polished and paid do not possess. They're not the most productive manufacturing employees in the world for nothing! I've never been a union member, but I do enjoy my employer having to compete for my skills with the union force. Benefits me well! My wife was a union steel and auto worker for years, so I do have a little insight into their way of life and work. ; )
Any company, union or not, can demand 6 day/10 hour shifts from their workers. Same with back to back shifts and they did it just as often as union companies, I've done it myself. The non-union shops are just a busy as the union ones at the same time. This is not unique to just union workers, so please stop with the union sacrifice BS. Am I a union hater? No, but I am getting sick and tired of unions whining when they shouldn't be. The fortitude and grit thing is very debatable also. To some, if the union does not come out on top it is a horrible thing...stick it to management is the attitude. Management is what creates the jobs and they put in more hours during the year than most workers do, that is why most are exempt in status. Union workers do not work any harder than non-union workers, in many cases one could argue they work less. | |
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| I worked at Northwest Airlines for 22 years before being laid off in 2006, it was a union job the entire time. I started at about 15.oo an hour in 1984 which was alot of money, I worked hard, seldom used any sick time and did what they asked me to do with little whining. During my tenure I absorbed 2 pay cuts, and a 10 year pay freeze which myself and the other members voted 'yes' on to save our jobs we were to get snap back pay when the company was more acclimated to make these payments for our concession vote. Well to make a long story short, when the final concession package came full term, NWA filed for bankruptcy and the courts ruled the contract with employess was null and void and the company wasn't responsible for the snap back payments because of the bankruptcy preceedings. So after enduring 10 years of stalemate with my wages on the hopes of helping the company the only ones who came out of it were the management types who continually received raises during the employess cutbacks and the stockholders.
I'm not bitter about it anymore I have found another job, but in the end no matter how the Mercury employees vote, it's the executives and shareholders who make the bottom line decisions on whether to keep the company solvent or not, no matter how deep the paycuts can or would be. After working for NWA for those 22 years, I was making 3 dollars an hour more than when I started, it didn't keep up with inflation or the cost of living but it was a job, but can people afford to work it they are losing money on going to work? It's just an easy our ofr exectuives to claim they can't afford to keep good paying jobs in a certain environment and move them elsewhere to find people willing to work for less and allow the company to make more.....Bob Seeger said it best in a song, I FEEL LIKE A NUMBER, but I'm not a number | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | News that confuse…….. After reading the threads here one would assume that Wisconsin is unfriendly and the worst state to live in for manufacturing jobs. It would be easy to speculate that companies like Mercury are fleeing the state in droves. Yet I read newspaper articles like the ones below. These sound bites are taken from today’s business section of the Milwaukee Journal. My assumptions may be taken as flowery so I’ll let my esteemed WF friends explain the news………………. Even though Wisconsin employers cut 114,000 jobs - the most for any July-to-July period on record - the rate of decline wasn't as bad as it was regionally or nationally. A report Friday by the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows Wisconsin losing 3.9% of its payroll jobs since July 2008, below the 4.8% rate among seven nearby states and even lower than the 4.2% nationally for the same period. Of neighboring states, only Iowa (3.1%) and Minnesota (3.7%) declined less. With a 6.6% drop in jobs in the last year, Michigan led them all. "When things are this bad, Wisconsin doesn't look so bad," said Charles W. McMillion, president and chief economist for MBG Information Services, in Washington, D.C. "Compared with everybody else, you're better than most." Wisconsin also held its spot as the nation's leading manufacturing employer, with 15.7% of its jobs in that sector. That's despite the loss of 57,800 factory jobs in Wisconsin since July 2008, a decline of 11.6%. Manufacturers in 16 other states cut jobs at a greater rate than Wisconsin, including Indiana, which one year ago was the only state that ranked higher than Wisconsin in manufacturing density. In July 2008, 17.7% of Indiana's jobs were in manufacturing compared with 17.3% in Wisconsin. "For years, states with a lot of manufacturing have been really hammered because of all the outsourcing and all the imports," McMillion said. Since July 1999, Wisconsin manufacturers have terminated 161,100 positions, a drop of 26.7%. But with a weaker dollar and the sector already so low, Wisconsin might be positioned for an upturn, McMillion said. "I would think it would have to be a strength in the future. I'm a guy that believes in the manufacturing sector," McMillion said. "It drives so much of our innovation and technology. And the fact that Wisconsin has lost so much less of its manufacturing sector than your neighbors suggests to me that your mix of manufacturing industries there is higher end and that it's got to be stronger because it hasn't lost as much." Of the 10 states with the highest percentage of manufacturing jobs, only Tennessee, Arkansas and Mississippi lost jobs at a lower rate than Wisconsin in the last year. White credited the diversity of Wisconsin's manufacturing as well as its experience at withstanding contractions. "Lean times force manufacturers to get smarter, to stay competitive. We noticed in the '79-'83 double recession that we came out of that in better shape and hardly felt the recession of '91-'92 because manufacturers here had been through it and taken some fairly extreme steps to try to prepare for that event again," White said. "Hopefully - and we will learn more as time goes on - lessons have been learned, steps have been taken so that we will be stronger as we go forward." 
Full article can be read here: http://www.jsonline.com/business/53956127.html If you are still with me, here is another confusing report: Wisconsin still leads in factory employment By Joel Dresang of the Journal Sentinel Aug. 21, 2009 Despite losing 11.6% of its manufacturing jobs in the last year – 57,800 positions – Wisconsin remains tops among states for percentage of workers in factory jobs. My analysis of a new Bureau of Labor Statistics report today shows Wisconsin with 15.9% of its payroll jobs in manufacturing. That’s down from 17.3% in July 2008, when Wisconsin ranked behind Indiana. Indiana had 17.7% of its workers in manufacturing a year ago, but particularly after downsizing in the auto industry, it fell second to Wisconsin last month with 15.7% of jobs in factories. Manufacturers in 16 other states cut jobs at a higher rate than in Wisconsin in the last year. Michigan beat everybody with a loss of 108,900 factory jobs or nearly 20%. And now for all of that terrible outsourcing going on: Toyota moving jobs from Japan to Alabama The company said the move represents an investment of about $147 million and 240 new jobs in Huntsville. "Currently all engines for RAV4s made at our Woodstock, Ontario, plant come from Japan, as well as engines for Camrys built at SIA in Lafayette, Ind.," said Jim Wiseman, vice president of Toyota Motor Engineering & Manufacturing North America Inc. "We are pleased to be moving all of this production to North America. [1] DETROIT, Aug 21 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp ( 7203.T ) is investing $172 million to increase North American production of small four-cylinder engines, at a time when the U.S. market shows signs of recovering from its worst downturn in decades. Toyota said on Friday that it would spend $147 million at its Huntsville, Alabama, engine plant to more than double annual capacity there to 577,000 engines. And if you are still reading……. 12 million jobseekers in China won't find work this year even if country hits growth target BEIJING (AP) -- As many as 12 million people in China who are looking for jobs will not be able to find employment this year, an official newspaper reported Saturday. China's top employment official said even if the country achieved this year's 8 percent economic growth target, only about half the 24 million jobseekers in the country would likely find work, the China Daily said. "The shortfall between supply and demand (for jobs) will become larger than last year due to the failure to create enough job opportunities," the paper quoted Yin Weimin, minister of human resources and social security, as saying. Employment is especially sensitive for the government, which bases its claim to rule on delivering economic gains and is worried about unrest among unemployed workers. Thirty-million migrants lost jobs when factories closed as global demand for exports collapsed last year, said the government, which has given no details of overall unemployment or how many new jobs have been created. | |
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| WOW, one plant is coming back. Whoopdee! That's offset by probably a dozen moved out of this country this month alone. THE BIG PICTURE Dennis, not isolated situations. Like I said, you're so out of touch. | |
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| Everyone in America is given the same chance to succeed.
We are all responsible to create our own security for ourselfs and our families.
You can solve all your problems by becoming self employed.
You can set your own hours (I worked 70 hours a week for the first 10 years), you can decide your own pay level, you can decide how much insurance you want, you can decide how much vacation you want to go fishing.
But you must make sacrifices like: keeping your head up and continuing to ask for help when things get rough. Never giving up despite what everyone else tells you. Believing in yourself when everyone else tells you you’re crazy.
The biggest reward, knowing you are 100% in control of your future and no one can tell you what, when, where, how much you get paid.
People have forgotten this is the land of opportunity; they sit around and whine about everything when they have 90% of the opportunity given to them every day.
Take a look around you, there are opportunities you pass by every day to fill a need. The question is, do you have the guts to trust yourself and go for it or are you going to let everyone else tell you it's impossible.
We have become a society where everyone "expects" everything to be there every day just because it was there the day before, that's not reality, things change. Ever hear of a rainy day fund. Stop overspending and living your life like anyone owes you anything.
It's not Mercury's fault the economy has fallen to historic lows. I know of 20 local businesses that have failed due to the economy. They never saw it coming and they are very smart people. Its life, pick yourself up, dust off your boots and get your ass off the couch and quit winning. It's a whole new ball game out there and just like everything else, change happens.
If you want to control your own rate of pay and you build outboard motors, then find a group of investors, invest millions of dollars in a facility and then you can control everything. When the economy gets really bad, then you can decide how you want to handle your company, but until that happens, realize you play a very small part in a business that employs thousands of people and your are at the mercy of the company!
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | non-union - 8/22/2009 7:54 AM WOW, one plant is coming back. Whoopdee! That's offset by probably a dozen moved out of this country this month alone. THE BIG PICTURE Dennis, not isolated situations. Like I said, you're so out of touch. Somehow I knew that I would get a response like this from you. One paper, one session of reading, I post excerpts from 4 articles that are somewhat positive. And all I get is "you're so out of touch". All I did was report what I read from today's paper and I get slammed for doing it. Argumentative aren't we?
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| Don’t forget about this:
MADISON - Governor Jim Doyle today announced an agreement with the Spanish train manufacturer Talgo to put two Talgo train sets into service in Wisconsin and to establish new assembly and maintenance facilities in the state. The rail car assembly plant will support the delivery of Talgo trains throughout the country.
And this:
Another biotech company is moving to Wisconsin from another state. Flex Biomedical, a Boston company developing treatments and diagnostic products for orthopedic diseases, says it has raised nearly $1 million in angel investments and will move to Madison. "Surprisingly, there's probably some more seed capital in Wisconsin than there is in quite a few other places," said Sal Braico, Flex Biomedical chief executive officer
And this:
Lured by the state's tax credits for investments in high-growth companies, a Minneapolis biotech start-up said Thursday it is moving to Wisconsin.
And this:
Exacto Inc. has announced that it would move to a 50,000-square-foot manufacturing facility on 30 acres in Sharon, Wis.
Jobs are coming to Wisconsin, maybe not as fast as they are leaving right now, but they are coming. Don’t discount the companies that moved here in the past 8 years also.
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | LOOK! pro union or not! there are people in the southern and middle lower part of this country that will do the same work at the same quality (arguable yet true for the most part) For Half the pay. a 27 dollar an hour machine shop job will bay half that down south. they will have plenty of aplications and even if they pay 17 and hour they shave ten bucks in labor cost. BUT WAIT they save that in matching payroll tax , social security and will not have a pension(that destroyed GM) and offer a 401 k instead. they can still offer a health and dental at half the cost with a higher deductable and save piles and piles on heating , tax breaks and other costs due to the states offering subsidies and tiffs . This is happening all over the country with all types of manufacturing and has been for years now! Merc will move and so will many many more. We are talking about too darn much money compared to doing buisness in wisoconsin. The unions have done a lot of good but they have no power left when it comes to labor jobs. As long as there are folks that will do the job for half the pay somewhere else IN OUR OWN COUNTRY the current employe's at merc Are i hate to say it.... Over paid (sad) but true. as far as teachers i wouldnt say they are over paid at all! waistfull spending and administration has made folks bitter about the issue allong with the failing of public education in erban america. The bitterness also comes from the fact that folks are tired of how hard the teacher have it! Teachers always seem to complain and cry and the union for the teachers is always laying it on thick! just gets old when though like in the machine shop many are overpaid for what they do or produce and many at the same time are underpaid. this statistic holds true for sales and most situations shop , teachers politicans and all!! 20% of the people employed will get 80% of your work done! or be responsible for80% of your productive workload sales or results. the 80%-20% rule is a factor in our country also as 80% of our country is living on the 20% getting things done and paying taxes. | |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | well its the thaught that counts but the little train program comes with some back scratching and with that im guessing our state is going to push a public transit program that will in return offer this company a good contract. im sure this new state funded program will run at a major loss as all public transit projects do and require major subsodization by wisconsin tax payers that will cost way more than it produces. This is not the answer at all and is part of the cause of the problem in my mind (nothing personal) i have no clue about bio program but im sure there is a story behind this also. though i could be wrong | |
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| Bradley894
The post was to demonstrate that there are jobs coming into this state also. No matter what the industry there are stories behind the decisions and most of the time they include the government. The state has offered money for GM and is offering Merc. to stay put. It is just the way it is and taxpayers would pay for it. It is these smaller companies with small payrolls that will be absorbing a huge number of the un-employed people….will Merc. ex-employees take the jobs….probably not at first, it is easier for many to sit on un-employment and collect $380 a week than to work a $9.50/hr job to receive it.
It is the new ideas and companies that will help bring this economy around. You had a great idea on another post and if you carefully implemented it you could be the one hiring a good number of people, but one must act. Could it totally flop…sure, but it could be something big. For shits-and-grins I wanted to see if a company or idea could be implemented with a total start-up cost of $25 and to my surprise I got the whole thing thought up, marketed and implemented in a total of two weeks. It has some great backers and has gained the attention of not only other companies but also an NBC producer and a film maker. All because of the way I did it….outside the box.
Mercury will not be moving out of country, just out of state. Why is it bad when someone else is willing to perform a job at a lower cost than another? If people cannot adjust to reality then they deserve to loose whatever they are going to loose. As of right now the era of making a large living off of an un-skilled job is on hold until the economy gets better. Start asking for $30/hr to turn a bolt or place a component into place when the industry is back to where it was in better times. For now swallow the union pride and deal with it like everyone else or loose the job…they have no other choice.
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| Just a little info for all of you out there. Merc wants to strip the employees of everything they have worked for. Merc is sugar coating everything so well for the public eye it is sicking!! Forced overtime!! Yeah that is great... unstead of calling someone back to work, lets move people around from plant to plant to cover there jobs so they can continue to collect unemployment!! Thats a good one....NOT!!! Cut the wages in half so the people working there will also be unable to pay their bills with the rest of the people laid off!!! How about the nice buy out that would MAYBE get a person though half a year if lucky!! The company is all for itself bottom line. There is not one change that the company itself is making in cuts. Lord knows that all the six figure incomes that the higher ups make are not going to see a change. They will blow anyone to keep that coming!!! The bottom line Merc will not promise the employee anything on a yes vote!! Anybody out there that doesnt believe that Merc isn't going to China is out of the loop!! Stillwater is just a good cover up and everybody is buying into it!! The company has made their mind up already!! The outcome of the vote doesnt matter at all. If this is what Merc wants to do let them go!!! I have worked there for 38 years and am sick of hearing it. Leave the people in Stillwater fix all the screw ups from China or better yet let China figure it out on their own when Mercury isnt selling anymore motors!!! If any of you had worked there this long you would fully understand because you would have witnessed it though the years!! If Mercury needs help packing I will be more then glad to help!! Maybe they will force me to do that too!!! I just hope you people out there understand that it is not the unions fault. Mercury wanted this current 4 year contract and the employees didn't. Well merc got what it wanted and once again is not happy!! If they were any kind of company they would at least finish out the current contract that was agreed upon in good faith and then make their changes...I mean this is what they WANTED to begin with. I do know one thing. When Merc moves i will be buying yamaha along with a lot of other people that i know. | |
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| If I was a union employee, I could understand the frustration. Merc is reneging on a previous contract. What faith could you have in a company who's trying to lure you into keeping your job, with what will most probably be, false promises. Unfortunatey alot of times older union employees are more financially stable and can hold out, rejecting the contract. Younger employees don't have that option, they have homes to pay for and mouths to feed. Many jobs besides those at Merc will be lost if the contract is rejected. I think if I was a Merc employee, I'd vote for the contract for the sake of others, and move on to another job asap.
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| I agree with the Merc employee guest. Like I said in my first post, there's probably writing on the wall that we don't see behind our keyboards. They're untimately going to China and doing their employees like American Axle did. If they won't give any promises of staying, even one year, they're gone. Just a matter of time and they're using the American employees short-term to get them through the transition, then drop them onto the American taxpayers on their way out the door to China. I see the writing now. Vote no and let them go! | |
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Location: Neenah, WI | Just some random thoughts from a guy who belongs to a union. Forgive me if I ramble on. Belts have been tightened all across the board. Pensions are being replaced by 401K or other investment plans. Most have some kind of employer match. Health insurance is over the top. My employer pays 80% and I pay 20%. The Mercury union wants to retain insurance benefits for retirees. That's one of the things that led to the demise of the carmakers. I've been in the paper industry for many years and have seen so many changes it'll make your head spin. I'll be 62 next month and want to retire but don't know if I can due to current conditions. I make a good wage and we are very busy with orders that are backed up. That's a nice problem to have. We, the public, don't really know what Mercs offer is. At least I don't. If top execs are making millions and they ask me for a pay cut, this would be a hard pill to swallow. If the business were willing to cut wages from top to bottom with assurances that the money would be made up as the business improves, I would take a hard look at it. Like I said at the beginning, just random thoughts. I sure don't like seeing good paying jobs lost. The people at Mercury make a great product and deserve a good living for it. If this is corporate greed it will bite Merc in the butt big time. I wish my Union Brothers and Sisters at Mercury Marine the very best!!!!!!!!!!! Keep the faith!!!!!!!
Dale Frank
Local 482 United Steel Workers | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I hope that it turns out the beat it can for the people...............
It's easy for me and others to down play the human effects of all of this. I and others have been very philosophical about the whole thing. It's easy to do when you are not personally effected. At the end of the day, we need to remember that it about human lives and quality of life. My thoughts are with you all today. Not sure what is best for you int he long run, but I hope it happens.
Anyone know what time the vote is and when they will make an announcement of its outcome? | |
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| wow i guess there is a few non-union that visit this site,but thank god only a few. all you non-union people should of bought mercury motors ,but i guess you couldn't afford them on your non-union wages! | |
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| Bradley, have you ever worked out of state to know that the people in the other states will do the same amount of quantity and quality for half the wages? I think not. I've been a member of steamfitters local 400 for over 19 years and been all around the country. I will tell you this, the workforce in wisconsin in my opinion is second to none!!!! The quality and craftsmanship is unequalled to anywhere else in this country. | |
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| The majority of the country is non-union and I'm willing to bet my bottom dollar that the majority of boats, motors and all other luxury items are bought by non-union people. That type of comment doesn't further the union cause at all. | |
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| steve b, I can afford a car on my non-union wages. Tell me what the all mighty union employees at Mercury are going to be able to afford when they don't have any job because of there great union? | |
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| hey non-union cash for clunkers ends today! | |
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| Mercury Marine Busted the Union. Renig on a current four year deal that was signed last summer???
And then put a gun to their head, and say take the new deal or were out of here.
Union Busting, plain and simple.
I'll buy a Japanese motor before I'd buy a SCAB motor...
The Stillwater people got their work cut out for them.
How can they trust their employer???
It's like trusting a wife that cheated on you.
It's just a matter of time now and the company will be gone for good.
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| Eddie - 8/24/2009 8:29 PM
Mercury Marine Busted the Union. Renig on a current four year deal that was signed last summer???
And then put a gun to their head, and say take the new deal or were out of here.
Union Busting, plain and simple.
I'll buy a Japanese motor before I'd buy a SCAB motor...
The Stillwater people got their work cut out for them.
How can they trust their employer???
It's like trusting a wife that cheated on you.
It's just a matter of time now and the company will be gone for good.
They're smiling in Oklahoma, for now. They're just the temporary plant until it does go to China. No different than the Japanese and the auto industry. The Big 3 and union tighten their belt, the Japanese tighten theirs. Back and forth. All while So-called Americans support the practice to save a few bucks, then cry when the bucks leave town with that Japanese motor hanging on their boat. Lets hope the belt is tight enough now that the Japanese have to sacrifice quality to tighten this time and start to lose customers. If not, either the Oklahoma boys are going to have to work for near minimum wage or those jobs are going to China.
Oh yeah, mark my words, the south WILL unionize soon, just like Mexico is. | |
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| All the small motors are already made in CHINA.
The Union gave them that years ago.
9.9 4 stroke comes on the BOAT.
Only the big outboards are made in Wisconsin.
Did you ever wonder why, at one time ALL of the major small motor companys were made with-in a 60 mile radius of Fond du Lac Wisconsin???
It's the work force my freinds. They all were in WI.
OMC, Techumseh, Clinton, Chilton, Wisconsin, Deere, Briggs, Kohler, Chrysler, Force, Generac, etc.
All the Bigs. | |
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| How can you trust the Mercury warranty now???
Who would buy one? | |
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| Eddie - 8/24/2009 8:29 PM
Mercury Marine Busted the Union. Renig on a current four year deal that was signed last summer???
And then put a gun to their head, and say take the new deal or were out of here.
Union Busting, plain and simple.
I'll buy a Japanese motor before I'd buy a SCAB motor...
The Stillwater people got their work cut out for them.
How can they trust their employer???
It's like trusting a wife that cheated on you.
It's just a matter of time now and the company will be gone for good.
Perhaps they are going to try this brand new idea called: "You come and work for us, and we will pay you money. If either of us doesn't like the arrangement, either of us can end it at any time." This model seems to be working for about eleventy billion other businesses very well. When people are paid what they are worth, and worth what they are paid, everyone is happy. There is enough competition for quality workers nowdays, that we simply don't need unions to achieve that. | |
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| Who would buy one now? Right now I wouldn't because I don't trust the union people who voted themself out of a job to make anything but junk just for the spite of it.
After a couple years and after all FDL people are out of the picture I might consider buying my first black motor just because I respect Mercury for standing up to the union and letting them know that they don't run the company - MErcury runs the company! | |
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Location: Berlin | guest - 8/24/2009 10:48 PM
Who would buy one now? Right now I wouldn't because I don't trust the union people who voted themself out of a job to make anything but junk just for the spite of it.
After a couple years and after all FDL people are out of the picture I might consider buying my first black motor just because I respect Mercury for standing up to the union and letting them know that they don't run the company - MErcury runs the company!
Even if they started making the big motors in China? | |
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| All of this talk about Mercury eventually moving everything to overseas is nothing but pure speculation and a fear tactic from the union. Where's your proof? You're being given a bag of goods that smells funny. | |
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| China, Stillwater, what's the difference?
They will all be SCAB motors soon... | |
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Location: Berlin | Sam - 8/25/2009 8:12 PM
China, Stillwater, what's the difference?
They will all be SCAB motors soon...
Stillwater is in the USA and China is not. Still american workers wether they are union or not. The workers in Stillwater had nothing to do with this. Big difference and that comment is extremely offensive. | |
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| So is Mercury Marine.
How could they do this to their own that made them who/what they are today, or should I say what they were.
Those men and women gave them their life.
Mercury gave them a death sentence to their dreams.
Never owed a Yamaha but will. | |
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| They won't be made by scabs they will be made by smart, reasonable people who understand that in todays world you don't vote down an offer so that you can retire early and say the hell with anybody else.
Again typical union mentality that thinks that because you worked at a factory (most likely being overpaid and taking advantage of the company any chance you got) that they owe you something. Like they owe you a job and a pension. Nobody gave there lifes to MErcury, they worked there and got paid real good for there effort. | |
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| stacker how am I supposed to buy that $40000 tuffy with the merc motor on it if I don't make a good wage. U forgot to think of that..now did ya!! Oh ya maybe the CEO's or upper management ppl can with there 240 acres of hunting land an lake lot an what not....it works both ways....maybe fiberdome can build there boats for less an merc can there motors....u truly need to be in the shoes of the ppl voting on this contract. or hopefully the revote goes throug....I for one am union an would vote yes to keep my job. With the hope of the economy coming around and things getting better.....could say more but to know avail don't want to get blasted too hard.... | |
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| I guess its easy to put the blame on the union workers,but I can see why they are looking out for their pensions so close to retirement, I don't blame them.Its hard when you see CEO'S walking away with millions of dollars in bonuses. When their companys are failing now you want these guys to give up their pensions and take a 7 year pay freeze, what a joke. I bet the CEO is not taking a pay freeze. I guess thats okay because they deserve it.If Mercury really wanted to keep the jobs here they would have gave them the one day exstension.I guess its easy cast to blame when your not the one loosing your pension.Think about what you would do so close to retirement. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | fisher 1:
Please help me to understand (really) How does voting no save their pensions? How would they loose the pensions if they voted yes?
Anyone know how the vote turned out? Is it binding? No news about any of this around my area. | |
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| You retire under the pension that is in place under the contract .They cannot change the pension until the contract is up.So if you can retire before the closing you get what was in the contract.If they would have voted yes the contract changes now,and so does the pension.Don't get me wrong I'm not happy with the outcome.But I think its two sided not just the workers. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Thanks for the explanation fisher1. I didn't know that there was contractual language changes in the proposed new contract dealing with the pension. That was something I did not see reported in the newspaper. Ss you stated , more to the story than an outsider like myself knowes about I guess. | |
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| From a Business owners standpoint, if you are producing a product that is NOT SELLING the management of Brunswick has no choice but to make drastic changes.
So first and foremost they are going to restructure the way these engines were made. 1) With cheaper labor. 2) Stream-ling all plants that are making the products.
3) Take advantage of the tax brakes that some states offer.
So the sooner we all realize how much financial trouble the marine industry is in. The easier it will be to understand what Brunswick is doing.
TJM
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| The contract proposed by Mercury would have changed the pension to a 401k based plan instead of the conventional plan. The 401k plan is dependant on the stock market.(WOW!) The conventional plan is based on years of service and average wages over a given time period. The company presented a contract they knew would never pass and therefore had no intention to stay in FDL. Some jobs will be transfered to Oklahoma, maybe the Verado line. The rest will be sent to China. | |
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| I was wondering if the older employee's gave any thought about the next generation? Just some thought I only hope that they weren't to greedy. | |
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| Given the current state of the economy and Mercury's declining share of the outboard business, those employees that are currently laid off have very little if any chance of ever being called back to work. It's a very unfortunate situation. Those jobs were headed to Oklahoma and China a long time ago. | |
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| If you want to hear what really happened at mercury there is a article on www.onmilwaukee.com by Steve Jagler. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I'm sure ther will be lots of finger pointing............. Balloting began just before offer expired By Rick Barrett of the Journal Sentinel Posted: Aug. 30, 2009 Fond du Lac — In the end, it came down to timing and a deadline. And time was not on the side of the union of Mercury Marine Inc. after the company rejected the union's attempt at a second vote on a proposed labor contract aimed at saving hundreds of jobs. The vote Saturday night came too late, and further delays wouldn't be fair to an Oklahoma community that's been waiting for the outboard-engine maker to move additional work there, Mercury executives said Sunday. The company said the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Lodge 1947 should not have waited until 10 p.m. Saturday to launch a second vote on a contract proposal that expired at midnight. "There was an entire week in which the union should have allowed its members to have a second vote, rather than wait until two hours prior to the deadline," company spokesman Steve Fleming said. On Aug. 23, union members turned down the seven-year contract proposal that would have resulted in a wage freeze for current workers and a 30% pay cut for new hires and for employees called back to work from layoff. As a result of the vote, Mercury stepped up plans to move hundreds of jobs to its nonunion plant in Stillwater, Okla., where the company has done manufacturing for decades. Union officials said the contract proposal was rejected by a wide margin. But some employees circulated petitions calling for a second look at the agreement before it expired, resulting in the last-minute decision for the second vote. Voting began at the union hall in Fond du Lac about 10 p.m. Saturday, lasted until midnight, and continued on Sunday from roughly noon to 6 p.m. Then it was extended until Monday at 6 p.m., according to the union. Mercury said it would not accept the results of ballots cast after midnight Saturday. "People should be reminded that there was another town, that we are very compatible with, in Oklahoma anxiously awaiting the results" of the vote, Fleming said. "Frankly, it would be unethical to tell Stillwater that there was a schedule and a set of conditions for negotiations and then throw it all out the window because the union in Fond du Lac chose not to allow its members to vote" in a timely fashion. Union members said they were told that Mercury would allow them to take a second vote starting late Saturday night and continuing until the 850 eligible members could cast their ballots. Union officials said that deal was arranged by public officials who acted as intermediaries between the union and the company. "Then we were double-crossed. I feel like I have been thrown under the bus," said Dan Longsine, chief negotiator for Lodge 1947. Union officials were reluctant to allow the second vote, saying it should not have taken place unless there were substantial changes in the contract proposal. But under pressure from members circulating petitions, union leaders agreed to the action. "Now I am disgusted," Longsine said. "I put my heart and soul on the line for this, and I feel as if I have been betrayed" by the company because it would not accept the results of the second vote - which might not come until Monday night or Tuesday. "But we are fighting on," said Fred Toth Jr., one of the petition circulators. "The union has told us to keep getting more signatures on petitions, although I don't know why." Meanwhile, Fond du Lac County officials are considering a 0.5% county sales tax to help pay for incentives meant to persuade Mercury to keep manufacturing and its world headquarters in Fond du Lac. A total of 1,900 jobs would be lost if Mercury moved all its manufacturing and administration elsewhere. The local sales tax would raise about $6.5 million per year for 12 years, county officials said, adding that Mercury could receive the money in the form of loans in which the amount repaid would depend on the number of jobs the company retains or creates. The Fond du Lac County Board may take action on the proposal in the next 10 days. "I have always said that I would save a sales tax for when it was critical. This is the time," County Executive Allen Buechel said. At least some involved in the drama believe the final outcome is still to be decided. "This is an end game where the goodwill will be gained or lost. There's an opportunity for both Mercury Marine and the union to gain a lot of goodwill," Fond du Lac City Manager Tom Herre said. "I remain hopeful that, at the conclusion of this, there will be an outcome that will be satisfying to all parties involved." Herre was non-committal when asked if he would support the move to add 0.5% to the sales tax in the county to entice Mercury Marine to stay in Fond du Lac. Mercury may have lost some community support for not accepting the results of the union's second vote. "Some people are saying the company could have showed more flexibility," said Brenda Hicks-Sorensen, executive director of the Fond du Lac County Economic Development Corp. But the union missed the deadline for completing the vote. "It's like one team playing nine innings of a baseball game, and their opponent staying on the field for 12 innings," Fleming said. Mark Johnson of the Journal Sentinel staff contributed to this report. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Thanks for sharing fisher1. Here is the commentary he references......... In Politics Commentary
The real story behind Mercury Marine's labor collapse  | Why would those union workers at Mercury Marine's Fond du Lac plant vote against the company's last contract proposal? | |
| Published Aug. 26, 2009 at 2:22 p.m. |
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The question is being asked at dinner tables and water coolers throughout Wisconsin: Why would those union workers at Mercury Marine's Fond du Lac plant vote against the company's last contract proposal? Why, indeed. At first glance, the consensus rejection by members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAMAW) Local 1947 on Sunday makes no sense. The company had flat-out threatened to leave Wisconsin for Stillwater, Okla., unless the Fond du Lac workers bent over and took substantial cuts in pay and benefits. So, why would the Fondy workers cut their own throats? Isn't a job with reduced wages and benefits better than no job at all? Why, indeed. I will not try to justify the workers' vote. But I am happy to try to shed some light upon the mindset and the events that led to it. The first thing to understand is the history that brought the Mercury Fond du Lac contract dispute to this point. The company signed a contract extension through 2012 for the workers in Fond du Lac only last year. "Now, they turn around and say, 'We need a complete rewrite, from cover to cover, of the contract THEY negotiated. It's union busting," said Mike King of the IAMAW. "When it's told to you across the table by a union-busting consultant (hired by the company), it really leaves a bad taste in your mouth." In recent years, Mercury Marine had laid off about 600 people from the Fond du Lac plant and shifted production to China. The laid off employees could not participate in Sunday's contract vote. The layoffs left the Fond du Lac plant with a senior-laden workforce. Most of the employees who still have jobs there have 25 to 30 years of experience at the plant. For many of them, retirement is on the near horizon. Put yourself in their shoes. You are very near retirement. You are making a fine living wage. You have negotiated health care and pension benefits. The company is proposing a new contract that will slash your pay and eliminate most of your benefits, including severance pay for outgoing workers. The contract will cut benefits for retirees and will cut wages for new hires. Even if the contract is rejected by the union, the company will need two to three years to move all of its production out of Fond du Lac to Oklahoma. If you can ride that time out, you'll walk away with the severance pay from the current contract. And then you can retire. Or, you could take the figurative kick in the teeth -- a pay cut and loss of benefits, including severance -- and retire with less. Union officials say the company's latest proposal is a "suicide offer." Which option would you take? "Mercury Marine never intended for this offer to be accepted," said IAMAW Midwest territory vice president Philip Gruber. "Despite progress on every major issue and a commitment by the IAM to continue bargaining, the company balked in the final hours and added terms and conditions that assured members would reject the offer ... Mercury Marine has been threatening these workers and this community for weeks. Some companies may hint at dire consequences as a bargaining tactic, but rarely do we see such extortion in plain view. It's unethical, it's un-American and I respect any worker who stands up and refuses to be bullied." "They (company officials) knew these were deal-breakers. It's gut-wrenching. We really, really tried to work with them," King said. Company officials say they already have begun the process of shifting the headquarters and production from Fond du Lac to Stillwater. Company officials said they will continue to abide by the terms of the contract they negotiated with the union last year. The company says it is doing what it needs to do to survive in a global marketplace. The company says it must reduce its labor costs. The company said it expects the full transition to Oklahoma to take between 24 and 36 months. "We appreciate the patient support of our employees and communities as we've gone through this process," said Mark Schwabero, president of Mercury Marine. "This has been a very difficult and stressful process for all involved. We will work closely with our team in Fond du Lac to develop and communicate a transition plan for this 24-36 month process." The company has said it will stand by its offer to the union until Saturday, Aug. 29. It's possible that an 11th-hour solution could emerge. But you best not hold your breath. In the end, the company is doing what it believes it needs to do. So is the union. Unfortunately, that doesn't make the pain any less severe in Wisconsin. | |
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| Too bad even a reporter doesnt have the facts straight................ there is no pay cut for the long term employees but rather a freeze on raises. Thats not a paycut! | |
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| What a mess. | |
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Location: Elgin, Illinois | The more of this I have read, here and on other boards, blogs and artuicles; I get a sense of inevitability to the end game. Brunswick/Mercury needed an immediate cost cutting, but more importantly a long term cost cutting. In addition, apparently, Stillwater, OK was offering some incentives. In the end the "corporate" decision was to move to Oklahoma unless the Wisconsin circumstances could be made to match. The older, long time, close to retirement workers were being asked to bear a very large portion of the cost reduction.
I don't think the workers would have rejected a proposal that would have been significantly less burdensome to these workers close to retirement.
In better times Mercury/Brunswick might have had the flexibility to be more generous and offer buyouts and other incentives to older workers and move to a situation where future labor costs were less. But, no responsible management can afford to be generous when the wolf is at the door. So, maybe they, justifiably or just cautiously or even callously felt the wolf was either at the door or soon to be there (maybe even only maybe coming). My pointy here is that somewhere a "corporate" decision was made that either it was going to become immediately cheaper to be in Wisconsin or they would be in Wisconsin only as long as it takes to pack and move.
When Mercury was a family owned/managed business there would have been other factors considered. My own community has the same "problem"; the lerger employers are no long owned by those two generations back "families". And, as a result, the Easter Seal Association is no more, the Community Crisis Center is hanging by a thread, etc. It is a different world and one in which adjustments are going to have to be made. Community is not a factor in decisions made by companies competing across the globe. The view from the window of management is bigger than just the local scene. That is just a fact, not good or bad. Just reality.
Forty years ago the Elgin Watch company closed its factory here in my community and the town "almost" withered away to dust. Today, the community is twice as big and has many more, but very different, jobs. No one person or group was responsible for what happened here and I am very confident in my guess that the same holds true for the Mercury Marine circumstance.
Some guy buying an outboard motor in the Western Pacific is looking at how much it will cost to get a quality dependable outboard. He will not care that it is not being manufactured in one place or another.
We need to make drastic adjustments on how we compete in the world. Our trade policies and terms are not in tune with reality. It no longer takes years to train a machinist. Today, the replacement for experience is the CNC machine. Close tolerances are more the result of programming rather than a staedy, experienced trained, hand and eyes. In the past we could be cavalier because we had the skills to dominate, now we don't. Today, we need to reflect on how we can work the American worker into the global economy on a level playing field.
I don't know that Mercury is going to all that successful in saving enough money moving to Oklahoma. What is needed is the ability to guarantee that Oklahoma or Wisconsin can compete fairly and successfully with products produced anywhere else in the world. The cost of doing business here is very high. Safety, pollution, real estate taxes (supporting fantastic schools and social services), etc. are all cost factors not as costly in other parts of the world. Mercury/Brunswick could probably pay more in wages and benefits to their employees if those costs were the same here as in other countries. But, try to get those costs cut... no contract negotiations there... So, where can they get costs cut, immediately...labor.
Good luck to everybody involved...
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Location: Berlin | JUst had a Brad moment
Edited by Rich S 8/31/2009 8:30 AM
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| Typical union line from the Milwaukee urinal. The union knew the deadline was August 29 at midnight. Mercury extended the deadline to that date after the original vote. Union did what it needed to delay a vote. This was all about the union saving face and making Mercury (corporate America) look like the bad guy. Now Mercury looks like the bad guy and everybody from the union to the politicians did their good deeds. Would like to see what the vote was.
I have been trying to make sense of this whole deal.
What does the union workers have to gain by voting down the new contract?
What does the union gain by perusing and achieving a no vote? Stillwater is non-union.
Is Mercury better off in OK no matter what?
I know that right now Fond du Lac will loss a longtime presence and employer in Mercury. Many people that work at, with and for Mercury will loss their income and by no fault of theirs.
To quote a past fighter,
I will fight no more forever.
Good luck to everybody
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| Right or wrong, Mercury's strategy to cut costs has worked. I would be willing to bet some other companies, perhaps in similar stiuations, were watching these proceedings with a keen eye.
Would it be unreasonable to think that FDL could lure a (presumably union) company in to take Merc's place by providing (non-union) workers and an incentive plan similar to the one it offered Merc? | |
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| "Now I am disgusted," Longsine said. "I put my heart and soul on the line for this, and I feel as if I have been betrayed" by the company because it would not accept the results of the second vote - which might not come until Monday night or Tuesday."
Put heart and soul on the line? Was this before or after he lied to his union brethern about the "bylaws" preventing a second vote?
That second vote should have happened by Wednesday. I am dismayed the Merc would not recognize the vote after all, but this whole deal was mishandled by the union. From Merc is bluffing, to not presenting the facts of the contract to it's members and stirring up emotions, to the "we can swim to shore from here" quote, to lying about a revote.
Hopefully, but not likely, the HQ will stay in Fondy.
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Location: Berlin | What do you think the atmosphere is like there today? Hopefully nobody lets their anger get the best of them. | |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | I just had a BRAD MoMENT ALSO BUT PUSHED THE submit key anyway.... still bitter! the headqarters staying in fondy? say byby.., Say hello to a new sales tax in the aria sold to the public to prevent these kinds of things from happening. im sure it will be used to get into the pockets of the people for there own future good. expect the move to be done this fall yet. word on the street is 3 new southbound Ramps will be built to hwy 41 starting next week. Press realease , great news! a new Megga Monster wallmart will be built in Fon du lac wisocnsin And will replace all the jobs lost!, using a 7 square mile plot of land starting with the abandond merc marine building and stretching to the (now ghost town)Fond du lac mall facility over to the Fairgrounds officials say offers on all homes and buisnesses will be 50 cents on the dollar. this new massive endever will include a 3 story 7 square mile walmart complete with living quarters above for all employes and anyone else remaining in town. this is great news for fondy as it will save our city. look forward to everything at your fingertips as the state university system will be houses inside the massive retail facility, also a free clynic sponsored by the wisconsin health care system and much more. the expansion icludes plenty of bike and walking paths as the rest of the city will be transformed into the origional wet lands and goose refuge it once was. this will be a massive endever that will include solar , wind , and thermal equiped living shopping and entertainment options. other key players under the same roof will be a casino and a reality TV production studio. When asked about the plan officials state that this is the first stage of a plan to insure the wisconsin population has a place to work , healthcare, public transportation, entertainment and everything else they need in the future. threw payroll deduct all of ones living expenses can be collected and all needs can be addressed. Lets face it roads cost money! if everyone had everything under one roof we woulnt need cars, one representive mentiond. just think of the cutbacks in ozone if this template was used in all the strugling citys of the united states. oh and there will be free cable also! Other plans include drainage of lake winnibaggo and transforming it back to the Wetlands it once was with hwy151 north from Madison to the lock and dam system in the valley bing expanded into a massive water way for use by pleasure boaters from our states capital to there favorite locations in door county or anywhere else that can be reached via the great lakes and old non esential shipping cannals... another representive mention that that if anyone living in this state of the art comunity paricipates in the world sponsored medical reasearch program they will recieve all the the free medical care they request as long as the take advantage of the WWODP ( world wide organ donation program) in an effort to help out with the increasing demand for vital organs world wide by the greedy..eeeeerr Needy this program will be highly recomended for emplyee's. We would also like to add that the Megga bucks jackpot will increase to a min grand prize jackpot of 1 bazillion dollars if you match the correct 8 noumbers. the second place pot of 7-8 noumber will also be increased to $1,000 dollars. though a bit tuffer odds a free ticket will be awarded to all employes in this new 7 square mile facility and icluded as a weekley service, the future growth of this program depends on private companies that employ a high percentage of there comunities. We just want to be prepared when and if the day come that these vital parts of the comunity decide to re-locate or close there doors. If we just had one windmill for every smoke stack in this world we would all live in a world that is more kid freindly , thats what its all about isnt ? the future of our children's dreams? | |
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| One problem with your vision is that Oshkosk Trucks will be purchasing the Merc facilities. They will in turn be hiring nothing but temps with temp type wages and no bennys. Was talking to a few people in Fondy this past weekend. The type of people that hire people. In no uncertain terms will they ever hire any current or past Merc union employees. Too much attitude to deal with.
Mercury has had plenty of incentives all along to leave, Stillwater and OK helping out, someone willing to purchase facilities in Fondy and non-union employment in Stillwater. Yet, they still attempted to make it work in Fondy.
Go figure | |
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| Shep i am totall agreement with you on this one brother......the whole just makes a no sense! | |
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| And now the union "officials" from Milwaukee stop the vote, and haul away the ballot box! If I was a Merc union employee, there is no way I let that box out of that building! And only 260 votes cast in the two days of voting? Same person count those as the first vote? Wide margin? Me thinks not! This is absurd.
And now Merc comes out and says they will meet with the union again? Would you let the same union negotiators go to that meeting alone? | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Obviously Mercury is giving them every chance to stay. Lets see how this washes out. | |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | Its over! some of us including me holding out hope that our beloved local manufacuturer and local hands the build those big black growly wicked power plants on the back of our big sparkly riggs are lost! Its like having to watch your lifelong Mans best freind duke get put down. Its all over and the deal with the southern state is a more attractive and more responsible option in this kind of market. If there wasnt already a plant down there i would say no the move is risking too much and the experianced shop members will be missed too much! i would say with the abuility to offer a job down south to the key machinests that keep the wheels turning and the fact that there are certain union members hell bent on cheating and fals represention also with enough venom that you couldnt trust them anymore in you plant or warehouse anymore... Merc cant affort to let these guys lean on a broom in the parking lot based on the history of how things were handled.... Everyone should be laid off and call backs should be based on whatever merc marine feals is responsible. To much at stake when you build a couple thousand outboards with bad powerheads. sad but true Merc should just make a statement and be done with it. merc should then consider the world headquarters move and pass on any offer that includs subsodization via sale tax increase! This will only further charge resentment in the comunity. Look how pizzed people are still over the brewers stadium tax. though i support that situation other than outside countys and housholds having to contribute with out shared access to the other milw county discounts at the zoo and golfcourses and stuff . A county sales tax to keep Merc in fondy is insaine and Merc needs to have no part in it! if the state cant step up and match the deal down south then screw it! sad to say but this has been handled in a bad fashon from the union vote to the fact that the governor let it go this far.. From the county taking advantage of the news and getting togather to try and help but most likely messed things up even more! just a shame.. who's next wisconsin,, Harly? Kohler? Manitawoc Crane? Oshkosh Truck( those of you that are so secure) all it takes is a head hunter from a southern state who is using federal issistance funds to buy industry into there state to call and throw a good offer out to stockholders! All it takes is your tax dollars getting used against you for the re-distribution of wealth and jobs ... oh well... nobody gives a crap! and on the news Wisconsin Cares day care van drivers are making 80+ grand a year and providers are skimming huge money off the top and buying themselves 7000 square foot mansions worth 3 million dollars in milw... posing for pictures with elected officials and a DA's office with no time or resources to investigate du to so many other cases of fraud , theft and criminal activity... just sick! | |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | Shep i didnt watch the news last night! Are you saying the Union headquarters sent in Thug's from Milwaukee to walk in and put an end to this? Omg! just like the old days! Let me guess a few guys at the top got a suitcase full of money from somone claiming to represent the interest of the state of OK? lol but not funny! someone needs to make a movie! hey maybe they could film it in fondy! i think the state offers money and free stuff if they film here? I need to get over this! smokes went up 75 cents today! I didnt buy a pack and im going to SNAP! | |
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| Bradley- You have already snapped..hate to break that to ya.
The meeting today will be a b*tch session from the union falling on deaf Merc ears, and it will accomplish nothing. Merc has said that negotiations remain closed. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | A day after a union leader said Mercury Marine was no longer interested in talking about a package of wage and benefit concessions, the company says it will meet with union leaders.
In a statement, Mercury Marine said the meeting with International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, Local 1947, is to "bring clarity to the communications" regarding the unchanged best and final offer. | |
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| Maybe it's a "What part of, "we're leaving" don't you understand?" clarification. Or maybe, "We weren't bluffing". Or, "Your union misled you, and now you, and all of Fond du Lac, will have to pay the consequences." Or........ | |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | Shep - 9/1/2009 11:43 AM Maybe it's a "What part of, "we're leaving" don't you understand?" clarification. Or maybe, "We weren't bluffing". Or, "Your union misled you, and now you, and all of Fond du Lac, will have to pay the consequences." Or........ outstanding speculation shep! OR Maybe with this new Stimulus pacage our President and state Representitives too action!, Maybe the state and federal goverment in reaction to our nation and states current financial situation RECENDED allmost all of the laws and regualation for Mercury Marine if they only go back to building ALL of there outboards and parts in this great U.S. of A! Maybe there going to fire up the old smaller Hp lines and Machines and start buiding Motors again! Or maybe they are meeting with the Union to tell them a restraining order will be filed and No Card holding member will ever be permitted within 300 feet of the property for fear of the place getting burnt to the ground.
Edited by bradley894 9/1/2009 12:07 PM
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| Meanwhile our Gov is eating spicy curry in India.
Seriously? India? WTF is more important than upwards of 5000 jobs going bye-bye? | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Fond du Lac’s loss of Mercury Marine a huge boost to Oklahoma town Union here has no plans for more talks; Stillwater runs nonunion plant
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) – Officials in Stillwater, Okla., said Monday they’re happy to hear boat engine maker Mercury Marine could be moving hundreds of jobs to their city, even if they sympathize with a Wisconsin city that may be losing those jobs.
Mercury Marine said Sunday it intends to move the jobs to Stillwater after a union rejected a contract proposal that would have kept the jobs at the company’s Fond du Lac plant. The company wanted to consolidate operations in one of the two towns.
Josh McKim, the executive director of economic development for the Stillwater Chamber of Commerce, said it’s been difficult for local officials as they waited for the company’s decision, knowing that Stillwater could have lost about 385 jobs if the company had decided in favor of Fond du Lac.
‘‘We were on pins and needles all last week, waiting on not just the company but the union in Fond du Lac to see what their actions would be,’’ McKim said. Stillwater has a nonunion plant.
McKim said Stillwater officials have been working with the company – one of the town’s largest private-sector employers – for about a year and that while details remain that must be worked out, ‘‘there is definitely a big sense of relief.’’ He said he sympathizes with Fond du Lac officials, but that he believes Stillwater is the best location for the company long-term.
‘‘Of course, Fond du Lac thinks the same thing,’’ he said.
The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Local 1947 in Fond du Lac rejected the contract proposal in an Aug. 23 vote. Mercury Marine said the proposal was its ‘‘best and final’’ offer.
It said the deal did not involve pay cuts, but the union said workers were asked to give up 2 percent raises in each of the last two years of their current contract. The concessions also called for lower wages for new hires and workers called back from layoffs and changes in work rules and pension benefits.
The union, which represents about 850 workers at Mercury Marine, scrapped plans Sunday for a lastminute, second vote on a new contract after the company said it wouldn’t honor ballots cast after midnight Saturday.
The company issued a statement at early Sunday saying it will continue to operate the Fond du Lac plant under the terms of the existing contract, which expires in 2012. But it also said it would begin planning to move jobs from Fond du Lac to Stillwater.
‘‘This has been a very difficult and stressful time for all involved but, as we said at the beginning of this process, it is our responsibility to make the best business decisions for the company to have a sustainable future,’’ Mercury Marine President Mark Schwabero said in the statement.
Union leaders said they have no new ideas for reviving talks to keep 850 manufacturing jobs in Fond du Lac. Dan Longsine, the union’s chief negotiator, said the company is no longer interested in talking. Russell Krings of the union’s district office said the company told the union the deadline for talking has passed.
Steve Fleming, a Mercury Marine spokesman in Fond du Lac, said the final decision on the future of the manufacturing jobs has been made.
‘‘From our perspective, it is time for everybody to move on,’’ Fleming said. ‘‘We are equally as comfortable going to Oklahoma as we are staying in Fond du Lac.’’
Mercury Marine, founded in 1939 as Kiekhaefer Corp. of Cedarburg, also has manufacturing operations in Tulsa, South Carolina, Florida, Mexico, Japan, United Kingdom, Belgium and China. It is a subsidiary of Lake Forest, Ill.-based Brunswick Corp.
U.S. Rep. Frank Lucas, ROkla., whose district includes Stillwater, praised the efforts of local and state officials.
‘‘Their hard work has resulted in a new, valuable asset for the city of Stillwater and the entire state of Oklahoma,’’ he said.
U.S. Rep. Tom Petri, R-Wis., whose district includes Fond du Lac, said he was ‘‘deeply dismayed’’ no agreement was reached between the company and union. ‘‘We must now urgently continue to focus on what can be done to keep Mercury’s corporate headquarters in Fond du Lac,’’ he said in a statement.
Mercury Marine has said its 1,000 corporate jobs were also at risk of leaving town, but no decision has been made.
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | Tom Petri .... NICE! Another Republican with plenty of Ten year and no fight left in him at all! Got mailer from him(bulk Mail) a wile back and you should have seen the wording... Another Sell out! and Doyle? Where is Doyle you ask? He is hiding! he is under investigation for abuse using wisconsins travel budget! Hideing in India!!!!!!! what is he going to expand India Gaming in wisconsin? hideing in India what a kick in the teeth! when are folks gonna wake up and stop voting for these guys? when is the local news and fish wraps gonna pull there heads out of there arses and do some investigative reporting, you wanna blamb somone? call your news stations and papers and tell them to stop covering for these shmucks and start talking about whats going on and how we are going to clean it up! , Now there fighting over who gets to run agains Doyle and he anounces he is not running for another term! im sure he will be MIA for the next year and a half. what a sad day! oh and where is Doyle and the rest when we are looking at 5,000 jobs? if you havent noticed its more like 50,000 in wisconsin alone in the last month! 300 here 500 there... cuts in every school district , county workers, citys and so on! yet if i see another state funded comercial on TV telling me with my tax money that i need to buckle up! or not drive drunk or seek help for Gambling adiction or Drive safe in construction zones, or another add in support of Ethinal by that lobby im well ya i already SNAPPED! DARN i Need a Cigarette! but im not giving anothere dime to the state and feds for the smokes i buy!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAARrrrrrrrgg! What is that add on the RADIO as we speak? Wisconsin Lottery? buy a ticket win millions? how much did that add cost! No wonder the Radio and tv and newspapers look the other way! the state is paying there bills!!!! just dandy! oh ya how many phones are in your house hold? i have 4 counting 3 cells and a land line.. The New state law went into affect today... 75 cents a line per month!!!!!! thats another 36 bucks a year out of my pocket!!!!! how many phone lines and fax lines does Merc have?
Edited by bradley894 9/1/2009 4:06 PM
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Nevermind. Almost slipped up and posted a reasonable, well thought-out point of view on this. I know this isn't the place for that... Sorry.
Edited by Brad B 9/1/2009 5:56 PM
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Location: Berlin | Come on Brad, people like me enjoy reading your perspective. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | The never ending story. Another vote AGAIN Mercury Marine union voting again on concessions Workers’ rep: Company says it will accept outcome of ‘real’ vote
WAUSAU (AP) – A day after it looked clear that 850 jobs making boat engines in eastern Wisconsin were moving to Oklahoma, Mercury Marine and its union said Tuesday workers would again vote on a package of wage and benefit concessions.
The company has repeatedly said it needs the concessions to keep the jobs in Fond du Lac, its corporate headquarters.
The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers said the vote will take place Thursday and Friday.
Mike King, a union spokesman, said company executives and union leaders met Tuesday ‘‘through the efforts of state and local officials’’ and reached what he called a supplement with some clarifications regarding the concessions.
‘‘The company will accept the outcome of the vote. It is a real vote,’’ King said. ‘‘I am not going to try and judge how it is going to turn out.’’
Mercury Marine President Mark Schwabero said the company extended the deadline for the concession package to Thursday.
‘‘Hundreds of employees expressed a desire to voice their true feelings, and that’s something we can’t ignore,’’ he said in a statement issued in Fond du Lac.
The union has said its membership overwhelmingly rejected the deal in an Aug. 23 vote. Mercury Marine characterized the proposal as its ‘‘best and final’’ offer.
Mercury Marine, the world’s largest manufacturer of boat and recreational marine engines, said the concessions did not involve pay cuts, but the union said workers were asked to give up 2 percent raises in each of the last two years of their current contract that expires in 2012. The concessions also called for lower wages for new hires and workers called back from layoffs and changes in work rules and pension benefits.
The average hourly wage at the Fond du Lac plant now is about $20, the union said.
The union scrapped plans Sunday for a last-minute, second vote on a new contract after the company said it wouldn’t honor ballots cast after midnight Saturday – the deadline for pulling the offer off the table.
On Monday, company spokesman Steve Fleming said Monday the final decision on the jobs had been made and it was ‘‘time for everybody to move on.’’ The company had said it would move the jobs to a nonunion plant in Stillwater, Okla., with about 400 workers.
King declined comment Tuesday on details of the clarifications in the supplement or what broke led to another vote the company would accept.
Schwabero said Tuesday’s developments followed several days of encouragement from state and local officials to find a ‘‘process for a revote on the company’s best and final contract proposal.’’ The deal has not changed from Aug. 23, he said.
After the first vote, Gov. Jim Doyle said the state offered an ‘‘aggressive package’’ to keep Mercury Marine in Fond du Lac. Doyle said the incentives were based on the company meeting certain milestones, including creating and retaining nearly 2,700 jobs and staying in Fond du Lac for 12 years.
Some union leaders said those details, had they been made public earlier, could have affected the vote, in providing some information about job security at the plant. The union had feared the jobs would move no matter what happened.
Mercury Marine, founded in 1939 as Kiekhaefer Corp. of Cedarburg, also has manufacturing operations in Tulsa, South Carolina, Florida, Mexico, Japan, United Kingdom, Belgium and China. It is a subsidiary of Lake Forest, Ill.-based Brunswick Corp.
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | NEW: Stillwater reacts to Mercury flip flop By Monique Headley
Stillwater NewsPress
While workers and the community pound the mat to signal enough, Mercury Marine takes a step back on its commitment to move forward.
Is Mercury Marine bringing more jobs to Stillwater from Fond du Lac, Wis.?
After declaring Wisconsin union members' window of opportunity closed and announcing plans to expand its Stillwater MerCruiser plant, on Tuesday Mercury Marine management announced its decision to allow a union revote. The vote is set to take place Thursday and Friday. The announcement comes after a perhaps indicative return on Monday to union discussions.
Though shocked, commerce and legislative members of the Stillwater team vowed to renew their unwavering efforts to reel in the slippery catch.
According to correspondence issued by Mercury, “ ... due to questions surrounding the voting process, Mercury informed the union that its membership can continue to consider the original proposal through the voting on Sept. 4.”
Until now, the deadline repeatedly confirmed by Mercury management for the union to accept the company’s “best and final” proposal in exchange for retaining jobs in Fond du Lac was midnight last Saturday. When union members gathered Saturday night for an 11th-hour second vote, Mercury stepped in and said it was too late.
That's no longer the case for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.
“Hundreds of employees expressed a desire to voice their true feelings, and that’s something we can’t ignore,” said Mark Schwabero, president of Mercury Marine. “Obviously this is a difficult situation for all employees in Fond du Lac and Stillwater.”
Difficult may be a mild term to some in Stillwater.
“I’m just very upset. It’s just not fair ... How many times do they get to vote? It’s like they can vote until they get it right ... They are playing with our lives. I feel like they used us,” said MerCruiser worker Diane Wingfield.
From citizens to politicians, many find the news disagreeable.
“I think we are all a little bit frustrated ... Why they decided to go back after proclaiming their intent to move is only a question that can be answered by Schwabero,” said Rep. Cory Williams, D-Stillwater, who has been among those working to attract Mercury Marine to Oklahoma. “It’s like Fond du Lac gets two chances and Stillwater gets none.”
Unwilling to relent, Stillwater Chamber of Commerce President Larry Brown said, “This is not over ... We are not giving up ... We are extremely disappointed. Their decision was a surprise ... We are licking wounds and trying to patch over bruises but we are not dead yet. We need to visit with Mercury management to make sense out of this decision and try to move forward.”
Important, said Brown, is honest dialogue with the company about their decision and what predicated it.
“We will regroup the Stillwater team and what the options are that we might have to move forward with this deal,” said Brown.
According to Brown, Mercury officials did not immediately respond to calls or emails after Tuesday evening's announcement that the union would vote again.
Williams urged the Stillwater community to stay supportive.
“We will do what we can to come out on top," he said, " ... I think we’ll all be looking over offers we’ve made but everybody involved has worked long and hard and extended a lot of resources.”
Williams said he understood the union vote was one piece of the relocation predicament.
“I am not sure the next vote is the key to the puzzle," he said. "I was led to believe labor was a part of the pie. Now it seems to be the cornerstone.”
When it comes to local resources and labor, said Williams, “we have great workers and a great community. We have embraced Mercury for 35 years ... We have been accommodating every step of the way ... I don’t think any of us will walk off saying we didn’t do everything we could. If it doesn’t happen, it won’t be for the lack of trying.”
According to Brown, there may be mitigating factors. The final decision, he said, rests with the board of directors for parent company Brunswick Corporation.
“Obviously,” said Brown, “If the recommendation of Mercury Marine is Fond du Lac instead of Stillwater, we’ll have a tougher time overcoming.”
The Stillwater team will continue to fight to keep the MerCruiser plant here and viable, Brown said.
“We still believe the financial and long-term success going forward resides in Stillwater ... We don’t give up easy.” | |
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| Gawd, this whole thing reminds me of the Brenda Favre saga!  | |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | LOL!! Britney Favre? thats great! thanks guest for making me giggle in this up and down world... hey got a letter in the mail from are garbage pickup company.... it was explaining about the new state budget added fee's and the fees went up a total of 475% in two increments on at the end of july and one in october... this is why our bill is going up.. thank goodness its just fee's and not more taxes on the citizens and buisnesses of the state... hey why doent diamond Jim answer his phone? is he out of town or something.. MERC please stay in Fondy there are to much water around here and too many potential buyers dealers and contributing venders make something work All you guys! | |
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| Is Stillwater all bent out of shape because they may not take the jobs from Fondy or do they feel that they would have strenghthened their position by getting additional jobs and now they feel vulnerable to the same shifting sands?
Take care,
Jim O | |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | <p>this is what i see here! and i dont think merc planned this but here is what is happening now the way i see it.. Merc wanted to merg these two locations into one... High bidder from the state support and employee support to cut costs wins! at this point leaving both comunities and locations hanging the anti has been raised and the bidding war for merc to stay is on!!!!!! In a perfect world at this point Merc may recieve help from both states as the pot getts sweetend and even more support than they immagined .. Leaving the window open to KEEP BOTH Plants OPEN Look great and come up with a sweet deal partaining to Tax breaks less union controle and lower costs than expected in BOTH locations... I DONT THINK THEY PLANNED THIS BUT I THINK THE LIGHT BULB JUST WENT ON! THEY CAN LOOK LIKE HERO'S STAY IN BOTH PLACES AND stop getting bent over by state and local taxes and at the same time lower costs accross the board. AM I WRONG OR DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE THIS HAPPENING? </p><p>What im saying is that by being wishy washy both states and locations are going to become extreemly agressive for fear of loss... desperation! THE offer to Merc to stay at both locations may become so sweet that it would save them Double the operating exenses they were hoping to cut by only keeping one plant! They my be able to cut costs by twice as much KEEPING TWO LOCATIONS!!!!!!!! see where this is going? thogh originaly not the plan by merc somthing to look at!</p><p> i would also like to add though i think our elected officials arent smart enough to do this i would include in the offer for free stuff to Merc the stipulation of bringing back home the smaller outboard lines! Relax on the 4 stroke push and get them building more outboards at home not over seas. all can look like hero's and help this country greatly</p>
Edited by bradley894 9/2/2009 10:12 AM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Jim:
Mercury's original plan was to consolidate. They plan/planned on moving operations from one of the plants. I believe that if we win they loose.
Bradley, you may be on to something.
Mercury may look good today for Wisconsin but they are mad as hell in Oklahoma. They want to know why we (FDL) get 3 attempts and they get zero attempts. They though it was a done deal.
Two days ago I was hearing complaints that Mercury planned on leaving all along. Today I hear the same people arguing that Mercury planned on staying all along. Go figure, you just gotta laugh.
WTMJ reports of younger union members (with 10-15 years left) complaining that they felt lied to by the union. They say they were told that if they voted no, negotiations would continue.
It's obvious that we (the outsiders) know little of the final contract language. we only know what is reported by the media and that can be dangerous. It sounds like retirements will be extremely effected and if any of them are laid off their salaries will take a big hit.
Still contend that a job is better than no job. At least for now.
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| The biggest part of the confusuion on the first vote, was that there were two proposals out there. The first had some ambiguous language in it, such as, "Mercury MAY move machining operations to Fond du Lac, Mercury MAY move Mercruiser assembly operations to Fond du Lac, Mercury MAY move........" That was a draft of the "Last, Best, and Final" offer. The final proposal had more specific language in it, such as, "Mercury WILL move machining operations to Fond du Lac, Mercury WILL move Mercruiser assembly operations to Fond du Lac, Mercury WILL move........".
It seems as though most of the union rank and file only had the draft, will only a few had the final proposal. Why would that be? Why didn't the union officials ensure that all the members had the final, and correct draft? Hhhmmmmm. I saw both documents on Monday.
Somebody else questioned why the union rep from Milwaukee was allowed to come in, stop the vote, and take the ballot box out. Hard to believe that the local guys would allow that. I think the IAM national would sacrifice those jobs in Fond du Lac to try to prove how "united" and unbending the IAM is to other companys that are going to be negotiating in the near future.
I saw a 35 yr employee on Fox News Tuesday night. He said he voted no the first time, and would vote no again. One of those that could swim to shore, if Merc leaves. He could care less about the Company, Fond du Lac, or his fellow workers. All he cares about is getting the most for him. | |
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| This from WISN TV website.
"Workers were given four pages of clarifications about the contract offer to review before the vote, but no new offer. WISN 12 News reporter Kent Wainscot said the contract is 100 percent the same as the one previously voted on.
One of the clarifications was that workers who were laid off and then brought back will return at their original rate of pay, not a reduced wage as some previously thought."
Now I bet those laid off workers would really like the chance to vote! Anybody see the comments from one of the long time members on WTMJ? Another one that has the us againnst them mentality. Some just don't get it.
Just an observation, but the FDL Reporter has dona a terrible job of reporting on this, throughout. I get way better information from WTMJ and WISN.
Edited by Shep 9/3/2009 11:55 AM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I also see that a union rep has resigned. | |
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mercury union vote
