Posted 3/23/2010 9:14 AM (#89215) Subject: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
OK Lets get it started again. In the past it has been the practice of many events to hold the list of contestants till the first morning of the event. Makes it very hard to be a fan, or for the fisherman, to have someone new become there fan. Its fun to argue about which program will prevail, trolling or live bait riggin. I lost that one last season hey mike? 15 days, that is what I am calling for. All events need to list there participants 15 days in advance of the first day of competition. It does not matter how many they have entered.
Oh, and for the nay sayers, remember that they all keep saying how we all need to pitch in during these hard times to keep the sport running. Building a fan base is what needs to happen and the fishermnan will come.
Posted 3/23/2010 12:41 PM (#89222 - in reply to #89218) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 319
In my world, that thought is backward. In order to bring in new fans you have to get the people to be fans of the sport first...then they develop a following to individual players. You cannot build the sport by trying to increase a new fan base for individuals without them being fans of the sport first.
Dale Ernhart fans did not become NASCAR fans, the NASCAR fans became Dale Ernhart fans...the sport comes first. More individual exposure only increases the fan base for that person from within the sport, it will not bring more people to the sport because of it.
Stop looking at things as a tournament fishermen if you want to attract people to the sport who are not already there. It is a tiny fraction of fishermen who even care about tournaments...work on giving them a reason to follow the sport then the individual fan bases will grow.
Posted 3/23/2010 2:46 PM (#89226 - in reply to #89222) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
The nascar analogy is interesting, even as outdated as it is. Earnhardt fans took the course you described and it work as a start, but kasey kahnes fans are drawn to him before the sport of nascar, why do you think that is? It is Because they are marketing the man, not the game. Refreshing faces endorsing american values products. There game is well established. Our game is well established as well. However, when you mention fishing, it simply has more participants than any other past time in the country. A base of customers allready in the loop. So, by taking the current angling base in the walleye belt then start tellin them about each and every angler, they will pick out and associate themselfs with that angler and his style. They will then in turn watch the guys they associate themselfs with and in turn follow there progress and the sport. Proven. PWT did that well. Increase participants at events? Yep, same guy who associates himself with the pro. He gets good and says, "Heck, I can do that" and joins in on the fun.
Edited by stacker 3/23/2010 2:52 PM
Brian Hoffies
Posted 3/23/2010 4:59 PM (#89230 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
If I'm 18 years old and just starting to fish and hear the name Gary Roach will that mean something to me?
No, but if I'm into Walleye fishing then the name will mean something and perhaps I'll check him out.
Another example...............if there was no TV and you never played soccer. Could you pick Beckham out of a line up?
To me it's not a question of which came first. Without the sport there is no pro's and no fan base.
Posted 3/23/2010 5:30 PM (#89233 - in reply to #89230) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
So what if we took the guys who fish and are into walleye fishing primarily and told them about the pro's that are out there. Do you think they could associate themselfs with one of them?
By the way, how many guys you think there are that are primarily walleye fisherman?
You are right by the way, I dont know who beckham is, nor would you persuade me to watch the sport I dont care for and be a fan of him or anyone else.
Now does that make sense. Promote from within as there are many within.
Posted 3/23/2010 5:54 PM (#89234 - in reply to #89233) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 319
That is my point stacker, there is not a huge crowd within the sport that has enough of an interest in tournament fishing. The greatest share of fishermen could care less about tournaments...the goal should be to make the tournament part of the sport be able to draw more of the 60 million fishermen...make the product appealing, something it desperately needs.
Posted 3/23/2010 6:53 PM (#89236 - in reply to #89234) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
Now were getting somewhere. Make the product more appealing. Lets see, the events have been held during major festivals. The events have been held in major cities. They have been held in big waters and small waters, televisied with all the drums and bugles and even offered very large payouts. They have offered family friendly events with many items for kids to do. They have done some major things to get more of the PUBLIC interested. However, when the growth of the sport started to boom, it was because the fisherman were show cased and people picked there favorites to watch.
I do not argue the fact that a ever changing and more dynamic product will draw fans to the sport. However, advertising costs, on an average, about 1000.00 per new customer. The circuits do not have that to throw around. What do they have that costs them nothing? Alot of general fisherman that allready love the sport. Also........
There Fisherman. Yep, they spend there own cash to fish there events. yet, yet, we very rarly get a list of who's who before the event. Thats free to do. costs nothing. MWC has it and I love it. AIM started it a bit last year and would look forward to seeing the 15 day rule be instituted this year.
Posted 3/23/2010 8:53 PM (#89239 - in reply to #89236) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 319
Holding events during major festivals does nothing to make the sport more appealing...all it does is move an un-appealing event next to an appealing one in hopes that something will rub off on to the tournament.
Big cities, little cities, big waters, little waters and even televised does absolutely nothing but change the location of a sport there is no interest in. You have to change the sport. Location is not the problem here, some of the smallest communities put on some of the biggest events, the problem is the product....tournament fishing, and the overall attitude is a huge factor quite frankly.
It is tough to sell a product there is little interest in and it is not because there has not been enough exposure. As for advertising, there are many ways to get good advertising campaigns under foot with a net result of $.30 to $.50 cost per attendee. Build upon that and word of mouth takes over.
Posted 3/24/2010 3:07 AM (#89247 - in reply to #89239) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
You certainly make some big statements, I would look for some clarifications as well as a fix. I seen your finger pointing, I heard your blames, I did not see your fix.
With that said, first paragraph you said you are moving a un appealing event next to a appealing event to get a rub off. Aim is doing there events during your appealing events. Can you tell me what is unappealing about there events?
2nd paragraph, .....the problem is the product....tournament fishing, and the overall attitude is a huge factor? please clarify. This is a random statement that holds no water with out exactly what you see that makes it so.
3rd paragraph. I buy and do a lot of advertising. I myself have helped create a few things that give back to the fishing community. you stated that 30 to 50 cents per attendee will get a good advertising campaign under foot. I would like to hear just 2 ideas that will spur the people to attend the events, no, the un-appealing events that there is little interest in, them are your words, for 30 to 50 cents per attendee.
I am asking for lists of players 15 days in advance of a event. I have pro-staff that I can use in advertising. Someone who reads about them can go see that they are in the pro event that is visiting there local waters. Maybe they will want to attend to see them, because they associate with them. How much did that cost? Zero, they just provided a platform for all promoters, including the fisherman themselves, that can be used to get more fans into the sport. The PWT had just got this flowing quite well before greed stepped in and tumbled the apple cart.
Posted 3/24/2010 5:41 AM (#89250 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 650
Stacker, Some trails don't even have a list 15 days in advance... At my last Stren Series (FLW) I was 57 on the waiting list. I went up on vacation and to practice anyway... They called 30 minutes before registration... 126 boats outa 200. that would be over 120 boaters who dropped out...
I do agree a running list of who has entered is a great idea in this intenet world... Couple clicks and its done.
When the post Office drops saturdays my walleye trail here in NY will have such a list...
JUST FISH
Posted 3/24/2010 7:54 AM (#89255 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Boy you guys are hitting the nail right on the head, but we need a bigger hammer... To me the biggest problem with our sport compared to others is the fact the public can't watch the anglers compete, all they see them do is come up on stage and weigh the fish in. Aim has limited video footage of some on the water as the FLW and MWC did also, but it is very little and not first hand. I agree with you stacker that the circuits should post fifteen days prior, I also would like to see circuits not allow sign up during that time eather, I don't feel a tournament angler should be allowed in based on the prefish they had... To Grow our sport we need a drawing card to get the people there, and the first thought that came to mind was giveaways. For Example, Jim Coon gives away sponsor products to the last couple of teams in the top % of the field. I feel instead of those products going to the fisherman, give them to the fans in the audience, and have the fisherman coming up on stage draw the names. Sign up prior to the weigh in and see what happens. Advertise this in the flyers, and at all the businesses that support tournament fishing, just a thought... John Schneider
Gary Parsons
Posted 3/24/2010 8:44 AM (#89259 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
I agree with John in the fact that the tournaments need more on the water coverage and action. AIM did pretty good with that at Green Bay last year, and I have been encouraging them to do more of that with all of their tournaments. Stacker, I also believe that there is a two week deadline for the AIM events, and towards the end of the year they have been trying to get the list up sooner. To start your list now: Keith Kavajecz, Chase Parsons, Gary Parsons are fishing all AIM events. Other Anglers, if your in you may want to post!
Posted 3/24/2010 9:15 AM (#89261 - in reply to #89255) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 3899
John,
Some interesting ideas there. The potential fan base is huge, when compared to other sports. More people buy fishing licenses than go to watch football, Baseball, Bassetball, NASCAR, and certainly soccer, in this country. The issue is exposure to the tourney anglers. I've been saying this for ten years. The Walleye tourney promotoers promote their tourneys, but only to the anglers fishing them. None of them promote the angler, until AIM started up last year. And even they could do so much more.
There really needs to be more local promotion of these tourneys. AIM, FLW, MWC, WMS, IWT, etc. All of them should get more involved in promotions, make it interesting for the fans to come out to the weigh ins, get in there boats to watch the anglers, have on the water action and interviews.
One idea that I have tried to get a few gusys to embrace is the idea of Profile Cards, like the racecar drivers ALL have. Doesn't matter how big or little the venue, they all have fan cards. You can get 1000 4X6 crads for less than $200, with the anglers and boat picture on the front, and bio and stats on the back, with a list of sponosrs also. Hand these out to the kids and fans at tourneys, and maybe be available for an autograh session by your boats in the parking area, or near the stage. Here is an example.
You just can't run a tourney the same way anymore. You need current technology, local advertisement, fan involvement and interest. You need to promote the anglers, as much or more than the tourney itself. Make it a show, and make it interesting and entertaining. Not going to be able to just pay your $40 to the DNR, put out a notice on the internet, and mail entries to past entrants anymore. There isn't a single tourney doing enough to get people interested right now.
Edited by Shep 3/24/2010 9:18 AM
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Posted 3/24/2010 10:36 AM (#89265 - in reply to #89247) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 319
When I say unappealing I am not saying that the sport turns people off, I am saying there is no interest, there is no appeal to draw the people. It is a fact that has to be dealt with. Look at it this way, fishing tournaments run behind bowling...there are more bowling tournaments and the top tournaments they charge people to enter to watch...people pay to sit and watch. The top bowlers make millions from the tournament winnings, and then add on the sponsorships on top of that.
As for the events, my point is that taking an activity that no one has had an interest to watch, and moving it to a location and time where there is an event taking place that draws a lot of people does not solve anything.
The problem is the product....tournament fishing, this is as true of a comment as you can get. When no matter what you try, how long you try it and where you move it the sport cannot get traction then there is a problem...and there is reason for it. Tournaments are set up to satisfy the fishermen fishing them, not to satisfy the public to come and watch. There is a big difference in the two and one has a short term goal and reward for the fishermen, the other has a long term goal and reward. Changing the sport would be difficult but if the attitude is leave the fundamental basics about the sport alone and just add a little decoration, you will be here every year with the same concern.
My point on advertising is that is not the problem here. I just got done advertising an event and the per attendee rate that it comes out to is around $.20 cost for every attendee. Advertised not only in the state but from New York to California, have had families from out of state contact me for hotel information so the could come up. There are so many resources and avenues that could be taken but the same old entrenched ideology about tournaments always prevails.
I know you would like to hear ideas that will spur the people to attend the events, don't take this the wrong way, but that is not my job. There are people in the industry that have made a boat load of money from this and that are paid well to organize and figure this out...I am not one of them. If there is one thing I have learned from this industry, there are some who like to take other's ideas and engulf them as their own. You will be hard pressed to find anyone who runs a successful event to give out uncompensated ideas and help.
It is either the sport of tournament fishing has not correctly adapted to what the public wants or the sport just has to accept this is all there is and it is not a sport that is meant to grow much larger. I for one think it is the first.
Posted 3/24/2010 1:13 PM (#89266 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 1195
Location: Orland Park, IL
Great idea shep. I still have my autographed Nate Provost card. Still looking for my ruffalo card.
just fish
Posted 3/24/2010 2:05 PM (#89268 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Shep, I like your thoughts, Mark Martin helped me with the kids event at Bay City last year and had his 6x10 ready to autograph for every kid that was there, which is really cool. I believe with hard work and us as fisherman devoting some free time to boost the fan base it can be done. I also believe it starts with the kids and you get them interested it will not only help the future but bring the parents into the equation also. I hope the different tournament directors are reading this and I hope the suggestions keep coming, and Stacker Brian Keller, Jim Keller, Nick Schertz, and Myself are all in also for the Aim Events... John Schneider
Posted 3/24/2010 2:46 PM (#89269 - in reply to #89268) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 3899
I agree with paying attention to the kids. They love these cards. So will your sponsors.
If any of you guys wat to get cards made, Dave Olsen(BigO) of Speed Graphics does a great job. I know him from his work with racing at Slinger and Hales, and also from fishing Pewaukee Lake. He's a musky angler, and I think has even tried to catch walleyes.
Posted 3/25/2010 9:31 AM (#89298 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
WRITTEN BY REDNECK TECH, My point on advertising is that is not the problem here. I just got done advertising an event and the per attendee rate that it comes out to is around $.20 cost for every attendee. Advertised not only in the state but from New York to California, have had families from out of state contact me for hotel information so the could come up. There are so many resources and avenues that could be taken but the same old entrenched ideology about tournaments always prevails.
TO REDNECK TECH, you cannot make a statement about a per attendee cost of advertising until the event actually takes place and people are counted. Guessing how many people will be at your event before it happens then making such a loud statement about costs is, well, is stupid. We know it is not your job to give up the secret to the sphinx either, for free. Not sure you have them either. So if you are not gonna be a fixer on this subject, please keeep to yourself.
ICEMAN, They do have lists, everyone of them have the lists, do not kid yourself.
Gary, John, thanks for the lists. I think you hear what I am saying. Oh, and by the way, you guys need to be around in the crowd after weigh ins and not bunched up together. When you have Gary Chase and Kieth all together, you are very un-approachable. I am not saying that you do this but the fisherman need to be out and working the crowd a bit as well. These guys do want to meet you. Autograph lines like racing is great with the kids. My son still has his Dan Plautz card from PWT Saginaw 2002 or somewheres there. Adult males want to act cool, no meet and greet lines. They just want you to walk up and say hi.
It has also been said to me that many of the fisherman pay there own way so as far as them going out to work a crowd for the benefit of the sport or circuit is not going to happen. Thoughts?
Posted 3/25/2010 9:36 AM (#89300 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 82
While I will be hammered over this just as I have for the last 3 years this exact topic has been brought up. Walleye Tournaments will never garner the audience that the Bass Tournaments, especially BASS Elites, because the majority of fishermen can't relate to the styles utilized in most walleye tournaments.
You are preaching to the choir on this forum and any walleye fishing forum out there. Try and explain dispy diver trolling on Erie to a family fishing at the local retention pond... then explain KVD throwing a spinnerbait to largemouth and see which story they understand.
BASS has marketed that style of competition almost perfectly. Even attracting the speed fans of racing, the rumor mill fans of message boards and the my brand is better than yours argument experts.
Want fans of a TV'd walleye tournament, show anglers using equipment that people can purchase at any tackle shop.
IMO, tournament fishing is a self sustaining venture only. Tournament fishermen have more opportunities to promote the sport than a group running them, by teaching friends and family to fish and fish well. Competitive people will always find an avenue to compete... even when our bodies will not allow rec league basketball, we can still fish. Very rarely will you recruit non-interested parties to something as specific as this by marketing only.
Posted 3/25/2010 1:41 PM (#89307 - in reply to #89298) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 319
"TO REDNECK TECH, you cannot make a statement about a per attendee cost of advertising until the event actually takes place and people are counted. Guessing how many people will be at your event before it happens then making such a loud statement about costs is, well, is stupid. We know it is not your job to give up the secret to the sphinx either, for free. Not sure you have them either. So if you are not gonna be a fixer on this subject, please keeep to yourself."
You are inevitably lost. Whether you like it or not you are trying to gather attention to tournaments from fishermen like me who do not have much of an interest. You obviously do not have the answers nor are you willing to hear the point of view from the people you are trying to attract. The competitive walleye sport is on a collision coarse with a brick wall and I am not at the helm, I am on shore telling you to change coarse..but hey, it's your boat so carry on.
Every event figures the anticipated per attendee cost in advertisement, make light of it if you want. I will gladly debate you later this year about the attendance of a first ever event compared to the attendance of a decade of fishing tournament attendance. I told you where the problem is, take it or leave it but the last thing I will do is keep to myself. The sport of fishing is not owned or dominated by tournaments and it shows how arrogant things are when the smallest segment of the sport will not listen to the largest part of the fishing population and what would attract them.
Posted 3/25/2010 2:04 PM (#89308 - in reply to #89307) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
RedNeckTech - 3/25/2010 1:41 PM
The sport of fishing is not owned or dominated by tournaments and it shows how arrogant things are when the smallest segment of the sport will not listen to the largest part of the fishing population and what would attract them.
OK, I am listening to you, I will turn the boat because its on a collision course, but you wont tell me which way is safety because you are not being compensated to do so. Thus, putting a blanket statement out there with no real fixes that you say you have but again, are not being compensated for, so you will not share them. It just means diddly.
I would also like to point out that you state, ... Whether you like it or not you are trying to gather attention to tournaments from fishermen like me who do not have much of an interest.
You do know that the event you are starting has pro fishermen there to help your event, right? You dont have much of an interest but you have no problem using them.....hmmmmmm.....
Posted 3/25/2010 2:32 PM (#89309 - in reply to #89308) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 625
Location: LaCrosse, WI
I still think one of the biggest things missing in competitive Walleye fishing is the public perception of the tradition. The Bass folks do have several advantages to draw crowds. Here’s what they have that we have not found a way to portray in my opinion.
Way bigger potential fan base (bass fishing in world wide, Walleye fishing is in certain parts of the US only)
Huge payouts with all the media coverage (look at the BassMasters Classic)
A much higher percentage of Bass anglers belong to clubs or participate in tournaments (even local weekly leagues)
Some of their biggest stars decades ago were also TV personalities (Jimmy Houston, Bill Dance etc…)
The average angler can relate to Bass fishing more because they can physically see what the angler is doing (pitching docks, weed beds, slop etc…) – compare that to working a 1/16oz jig on a breakline out in the middle of a 100,000 acre lake with no shore in sight.
These are just some of the things I see. Does that mean Walleye tournaments can’t become more popular, absolutely not. The biggest thing I see is that the average angler has a very hard time relating to watching two guys trolling with no shoreline in sight and watching some boards. I don’t think we’ll ever be able to capture the same kind of audience as Bass or even RedFish. They’re just more exciting to the average viewer.
Another thing that would potentially help draw more serious Walleye anglers is knowing that the people fishing the top circuit earned their way there. We all know that if you can pay, you can play. That’s not the case on the top Bass circuits. I feel that’s a big reason why they have so many people in clubs and fishing club events. It’s a starting point for them, and a way to work their way up. Plus it’s a way to gain experience to present to potential sponsors.
If you fish local Walleye tournaments in most areas, that means 4 or 5 local tournaments a year with the only exposure being on tourney day. In a lot of these Bass clubs, they have weekly events, kids events, public service and are covered by local media.
I see the current state of things as a catch 22. I think multiple circuits is good for the sport, but I also think one really high level top notch circuit would be good too. If we could have one major circuit with all the top names fishing for big money, I mean like $250,000 first prizes it would be huge. Unfortunately, the only way I see that happening is to only have one high level circuit having all the major sponsor dollars.
I do not want any circuit to disappear, I just think we need something bigger to draw attention. I liked the idea of the PWT SuperPro, but I think it was too late for that circuit. I wish it would’ve started 10 years sooner. All in all, I don’t have any answers, just opinions. I just hope it gets better. We’ve seen too many top guys leave the game over the last year or two. Two of them were perennial top 5 pros that I never expected to see leave the game.
Posted 3/25/2010 4:24 PM (#89311 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 300
Location: Lincoln Park, Mi
I think there's lots of good points in this post and none of ya have all the answers individually, but I think collectively, you all might be onto something. I really like the cards and the working the crowd idea. I agree with the anglers huddled up statement also. Heck, I go to deliver lures to anglers at tourney sites at have a hard time getting the attention of someone in a huddle to deliver their darn lures. LOL I can only imagine how unapproachable it seems to the average spectator or a kid. You're right on saugers2. People do have a hard time relating to walleye fishing, tourney style especially. That's where I diagree with RNT. I think in walleye fishing, the best advertising asset, outside the tourney anglers themselves, is your current recreational walleye anglers. Even those who don't care about tourney fishing much. The key is to get them involved or make them feel involved, and they will do the advertising for you. Whether it's through volunteer work at a tourney, or whatever. Sites like this are an invaluable asset also. They help people spread the word, make people feel involved through discussion, and introduce new walleye-interested anglers to the tournament scene. Admit it, we're ego-driven human beings, and if we know someone famous, even on the walleye tournament level, we're going to tell our friends, family, and others about the person or sport in general. And that's not to say that traditional advertising doen't play a part, but I just don't think it's the most effective match for walleye fishing at this current time. Sorry, but putting together and the numbers/costs for a chartity tourney do not apply. That's a whole different scenario Red. Walleye tournaments still have to grow at the grass roots level a bit more before it is cost effective. Definitely do some traditional advertising, but make it very locally targeted and limited. And of course there's the weather. Walleye fishing is not a fan friendly sport. Unlike bass tourneys, which are held on much less volatile bodies of water, you just can't get the fan interaction on and off the water. Only a few of us nuts are going to go out in 3-4' waters to watch and fish with the pros on tourney days. Notice how many bass fans follow the pros around on the water to watch? Those fans are hardcore and do great grass roots advertising. And who, but a dedicated walleye fan, is going to sit out in snow and/or rain in 30 degree temps to watch a weigh-in? Those fans have to be acquired at the grass roots level.
Posted 3/25/2010 5:23 PM (#89314 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 1406
Very interesting and quite a different tune to this topic than 2 or 3 years ago...Ideas are the same but the solutions are improving....
Food for thought based on Stackers request for a "list" of participants.
What good would a list do to the general public? Wouldn't that "list be better utilized by the directors of these events to promote their event? As for giving to the public...wouldn't it be more appropriate to give them the "list" of sponsors? then associate the players to those sponsors? Really what are you promoting anyway? where is your money comming from? or where should it be comming from?
Until large sponsors have bought into this game like they have with Bass we will never get the fans. They have to invest heavily into a few select individuals (put them on the payroll full time) So they can promote them like they should. This high level personality becomes the face of the product, winning a tourney or two would be nice, but marketing their product is key to the success.
You can do this with 50-100 sponsors and one circuit...the rest are the minor leagues and that list is well...a list of your buddies to put it bluntly. Once you have corporate buy in you have a "profession" that pays for this sport rather than the professionals paying and trying to become famous on their own!
Posted 3/25/2010 5:32 PM (#89315 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 300
Location: Lincoln Park, Mi
After reading all that, I forgot about the original topic. LOLTo blend it into my previous post, I think releasing the list early, if doable for a circuit, will help built that grass roots fan base as Stacker said. Encourages the online discussion and debate, which sucks in new people inevitably. It sure can't hurt!
Posted 3/25/2010 5:37 PM (#89316 - in reply to #89314) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
Food for thought based on Stackers request for a "list" of participants.
What good would a list do to the general public? Wouldn't that "list be better utilized by the directors of these events to promote their event? As for giving to the public...wouldn't it be more appropriate to give them the "list" of sponsors? then associate the players to those sponsors? Really what are you promoting anyway? where is your money comming from? or where should it be comming from?
Your essay of questions takes many different roads.what would a list do for the general public? Well, non-fans it would do nothing. fans, young fans and up and coming fans should be able to see who is playing next week. They should also be told about the players.
Promoting the event is not the road this post is on.
They already list sponsors, dont they?
I dont know who is playing and who they are, I am not a fan of them so what the heck do I can if he is the face of that sponsors product. I dont even know who he is. The only way that works is if I am a chevy fan and I am cheering for chevy not the operator.
What are you promoting anyway? By telling who is playing the game, you are promoting the players
where is the money coming from? How much does it cost to type in names and push send? That answers the last as well.
I will add this, Remember that the walleye world is smaller than bass. Remember that the walleye world has survived on much smaller numbers than the bass world and remember that we dont need to be the size of bass. We can do this at a much smaller level and do it very well. The monies will flow in, maybe not like bass, but then again do we need that level. Greed has put the boots to this game. Greed has created the big green eyed monster.
just fish
Posted 3/25/2010 5:43 PM (#89317 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Wow I am really liking this the more I read. I have to admit Stacker I am one of those guys huddled with my friends, but not in the future. I make this commitment to you, my fellow anglers, and the interested fans who will be at the weigh ins, I will walk around, answer questions, and talk with whom ever comes up to me. Also I would like to hear from my fellow competetors that they will pledge the same thing right here on this forum... Keep talking all of you and keep piling on the suggestions... John Schneider
Posted 3/25/2010 5:46 PM (#89318 - in reply to #89308) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 319
If you really want to discuss the pro fishermen at the event, how it is happening and how it came about I will gladly do that. There will need to be another thread for that though because I give full credit to those fishermen who are putting their time aside for the kids and I am promoting those fishermen as much as possible for it...but I will also gladly post the negative responses I received from others...and the fishing was always about the kids but there were many with the "what is in it for me" attitude. Have someone within the closed circle bring up the kids and all is well with the world...
My point on the fixes is this...you are the one with a product that you want the public to have an interest in and as of right now the interest is not there. I am not in the tournament end of things and have no control or influence on the direction you and others decide to take it. The industry has not listened in the past, in fact any outsider that points out problems is blasted because they have no stake in the thing. There is an uncanny resistance to using outside the small tournament circle for advise, or it is asked for only to further ones standing within the circle.
You take the advice and ideas from people that have to rely on others giving money so one can fish with open arms...there is no income that is derived from any kind of following. I am for the support of the sport of fishing, and tournament fishing has a small part to play in it. You want to woo ideas but you want to woo on your terms...not a good idea with the pickle the industry is in.
Planning ideas that succeed is such a deep involvement that spurting out a couple of random ideas does nothing without the correct implementation. The cards are an idea if it is done on a tournament wide basis, not individual. There are grants you could go after for advertising...if you did it correctly, and I have a feeling no one even knows where to look or start. There is a shirt company from down south coming up to sell official event shirts...are the tournaments set up to entice such a company to make that type of investment? Laugh and mock as much as you want but in the end I still have a following large enough that I can make a living from it...can you say the same?
There is an idea for you...go after the proper grants for advertising, now what will you do with it? Many steps to get there, many proper moves to make and many preparations must be had to qualify. Now go for it, or do you need someone who knows where to look and how to organize it? I can tell you that the way tournaments are set up right now there is no way you would get the grant...you have to change the tournament fundamentals.
.
Gary Parsons
Posted 3/25/2010 7:22 PM (#89321 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Stacker,
You're idea to mingle with the crowd is a great one. And if you or others that are posting here do see a group of guys together, go introduce yourself! I do not know anyone in the sport that would make you feel anything but welcome. That being said, I totally agree with you, and in fact made a point to suggest to the AIM crew to get a centralized "meet the pro area" that actually was implemented a bit with the AIM event last year in Saginaw. The anglers for the most part have to wait a period of time before they can actually cross the stage to have their cards and photos processed. It worked pretty good at Saginaw with pretty good fan interaction. For some reason, (and at some sites the logistics of getting to the weigh in area made that more difficult at other sites), it seemed to drop from the radar screen. I will bring it up again, use this post as a reference, and see if the good fellows at AIM can accomodate better! I too will follow John's example of trying harder this year. Thanks for the input! As for such a falling off of walleye tournament popularity, I would suggest a read at Scott Steils website. He explained pretty well. Times are a bit tougher than before, but I'm seeing a little turn around. And guys, some of the walleye guys have pretty good sponsorships, and a few are younger guys that are working hard, so it's not all gloom and doom. Please watch the websites in the next few weeks. There will be some announcements that are pretty cool from AIM, and maybe everyone will reduce the Sky is Falling attitude a little!
On another note, it's been mentioned that tournament walleye fishing is failing because there are not 1000's of fans at the weigh in. Have you ever gone to an elite bass weigh in? Mostly family and a few fans. The Classic is huge, but most of the other events are not drawing huge numbers of people. How do tournaments affect the average angler the most? With their fishing techniques and tackle. Always has, always will. Many new lures have been proven through tournament successes and have become mainstream items in the average fishermen's arsenal... yes, even to those that don't follow tournaments much or even at all. The typical non tournament fisherman learns about these techniques and tackle, and the quality of their fishing experience can improve as a result. For the life of me I can't understand why this hasn't been mentioned hardly at all in any of the threads in the past few years. So maybe the majority of anglers do not follow every move that every tournament angler makes, but to think that because of this, that the tournament angler doesn't have a huge impact on the sport overall is not in any way reality, even in this down economy. Just check with all of the average anglers that are now using planer boards, slow death, double rod jigging, Reef Runners, Fin-Tech jigs, Flicker Shads, and on and on and on. Keep the positive dialog going. The only way to affect some change is to share ideas, and so far this thread is doing just that.
Gary Parsons
Posted 3/25/2010 8:37 PM (#89323 - in reply to #89316) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 319
Some changes that are needed
Stop leeching off of other events and become an event. There is no way tournaments will grow by systematically using other events to depend on growth…all it does is grow the other event. Not only will this put the tournament front and center as far as name recognition but it will also create an income for the sport.
Reconsider the lakes and systems you choose to fish. Stop ignoring lakes because they are not well known for their heavy walleye population…quite honestly it would impress people more seeing someone pull a walleye out of a lake that has a lower walleye population than one that people are able to do it every day…it takes a heck of a lot more skill.
Get rid of the attitude that a city should roll out the red carpet for the event, instead have the event roll out the red carpet for the city. Get the local businesses involved and stop relying on the misconception that people filling their gas tanks and eating is reward enough for the city…because it means squat. Choose areas that will work with the event to keep costs down, that need a revitalizing to the area.
Aim for the entire population, not just those that fish. The industry has a bad habit of forgetting there are 250,000,000 people who do not fish but enjoy a nice event. There are many things you can bring to an event that costs nothing and will even pay you to be there.
Stop thinking tournaments represent the recreational sport of fishing…it doesn’t. The greatest share of fishermen don’t care about tournaments and the sooner the Godfather attitude is dropped the better off it will be. People do not like being talked down to and quite frankly a lot of the recreational fisherman are just as good as most pros…they just don’t feel the need to wager money to prove it.
Start learning how to properly use tourism boards.
Kids have to be front and center at all times…but at the same time remember the kids are not the ones with the spending cash.
Have a nice prize for the public. This can easily be done at no cost to the event or its sponsors…and do not make it a fishing item…make it desirable to all who come.
Advertise properly. You need to have a strong marketing campaign that fits a low budget. Learn to utilize the local establishments for free advertising and promotion for the event…but make sure you form the event to make the area feel part of it to begin with.
Posted 3/26/2010 9:51 AM (#89336 - in reply to #89323) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 3899
RNT has obviously never been to Fond du Lac and Walleye Weekend/Mercury Nationals. Both are highly successful, and each feeds off the other.
I saw this at the Green bay AIM last year. Biggest issue I saw there was the tent was too far away from the mainstream crowd, and the tent was too small. Triple the size of the tent, put it right nect to the street, get the anglers in the crowd, talking, signing cards, photo ops with kids, etc.
Posted 3/26/2010 10:31 AM (#89341 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 1406
Stacker said "Promoting the event is not the road this post is on."
Then what good would providing a list to the public do?.....other than possibly detering others from entering?
If a tourney director is putting out a list (for promotion) it should be focused on the sponsors and who their players are second.
If the direction of this post is a "list" I ask this about the promotion? does the tournament organization bennefit more by getting money from huge sponsors and promoting the players themselves? OR would there be a greater bennefit from the huge sponsor investing that money in the right individual/s?
I think the number of tournaments there are tells us the current answer.
Posted 3/26/2010 12:06 PM (#89346 - in reply to #89341) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
tyee - 3/26/2010 10:31 AM
Stacker said "Promoting the event is not the road this post is on."
Then what good would providing a list to the public do?.....other than possibly detering others from entering?
If a tourney director is putting out a list (for promotion) it should be focused on the sponsors and who their players are second.
If the direction of this post is a "list" I ask this about the promotion? does the tournament organization bennefit more by getting money from huge sponsors and promoting the players themselves? OR would there be a greater bennefit from the huge sponsor investing that money in the right individual/s?
I think the number of tournaments there are tells us the current answer.
Good Luck
Tyee
Sorry TYEE, this thread was for the fans. Then we started talking about how to draw more fans, not the possibilities on how the circuits get sponsorships. Thats all, the current fan base and drawing in more. You can start another thread about big business and how to draw in huge dollars. This one is not for that.
Guys, there are little things that cost nothing That we can do, that starts to turn this thing on high again. I agree wiith Gary in the fact that it is not all gloom and doom and I think many areas have made the turn. There was always enough players for one top end circuit, then 2 came along and alot of guys tried the venture out, kept the fields full while everything was good. I still think There is enough guys for one top end circuit. The problem is, as a fan of the sport, I dont know many of the fisherman because nobody has told me who they are personally. I am glad John and Gary embraced the idea of talking to the public at the weigh ins. Just like a small town mayor shaking hands at the fair, get out there.
RNT, I add and subtract well, I dont divide and conquer well. In one statement you state that there are grants for this and that, then in another you state that "you wont get it anyway". That is the kind of crap that miss leads people. Good luck with all your adventures.
Posted 3/26/2010 12:41 PM (#89348 - in reply to #89346) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 319
There are grants but the way the tournaments are set up as of right now they would not qualify, there are some changes that could be made to qualify...that is not crap, it is a fact and it was not a cut on the tournaments. You are concentrating on the decorations instead of the whole party. Good luck with it.
just fish
Posted 3/26/2010 2:11 PM (#89349 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
I just wanted to respond to RNT about the comunity not giving a crap, you need to poll the small businesses that are effected by a tournament circuit coming to town. When the FLW came to Green Bay in 2007 there was over 2.5 million dollars estimated pumped into the local community and to a small business owner myself that is a welcome sight. I also agree Stacker the tent and seating was definetly two small, and I hope AIM picked up on that. If people are comfortable and cool they will stay longer. the more excited the fans get about the weigh ins the more they will tell friends and family which will grow the attendance at both the weigh ins and on the internet. And believe me I had dozens of people tell me they are following the AIM feeds each and evey day of the tournaments. Some of them were doing it at work when of course they should have been doing their job. But that made me feel really good knowing that it was that important to them...John Schneider
Posted 3/26/2010 3:18 PM (#89352 - in reply to #89349) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 319
John
In that post I am talking about all levels of tournaments. Larger ones have a positive impact on certain businesses but there are many that do not see the benefit. There is no reason that the benefit can't engulf the entire realm of businesses and population...this includes the small tournaments. Of coarse there would be a positive response if the business that were effected by the tournament were polled...but on the flip side you would get a who cares response if you polled the much larger portion of businesses that did not benefit at all. Every community wants attractions, Suamico has the Beer Belly Run which gets a nice sized crowd...I hear more about that than fishing tournaments. There is a reason, they do it on behalf of a charity and they do have a financial impact on the community...but they do not over state it.
Green Bay has a population of over 102,000 people that live in the city and generates 683 million dollars a year from the attractions that are in Green Bay alone. They get an average 10,000 "tourists" a day...all I am saying is keep the feet on the ground when it comes to perspective. There are many cities that were sold on events and the outcomes were way over stated on what it would do for the community.
I see everything being discussed so far aimed at the people who already attend events...is not the idea to attract the people who do not attend them? The handshakes and cards are fine, but that is an activity that should be done more outside of the tournament setting like at county fairs and other events, not just at the tournaments. There is a vendor coming on May 1st from North Milwaukee and she is going to bring her kids to go fishing with you guys. She wants to have her kids meet some good role models...the pros have many opportunities to not only expand the sport but to also gather a following but for some reason the doors that are opened...most do not walk through.
The sport will not grow if the ridged-ness is so intense that the willingness to experiment outside of the comfort zone is not there. Seeking the advice from participants within the event will not grow tentacles to grab people outside of the event. You need to go for the people who do not attend and I just don't see how what is being discusses will do that.
Posted 3/26/2010 5:09 PM (#89355 - in reply to #89352) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
RedNeckTech - 3/26/2010 3:18 PM
John
In that post I am talking about all levels of tournaments. Larger ones have a positive impact on certain businesses but there are many that do not see the benefit. There is no reason that the benefit can't engulf the entire realm of businesses and population...this includes the small tournaments. Of coarse there would be a positive response if the business that were effected by the tournament were polled...but on the flip side you would get a who cares response if you polled the much larger portion of businesses that did not benefit at all. Every community wants attractions, Suamico has the Beer Belly Run which gets a nice sized crowd...I hear more about that than fishing tournaments. There is a reason, they do it on behalf of a charity and they do have a financial impact on the community...but they do not over state it.
ECONOMIC IMPACT, any clue how this works? You are so wrong on just this one paragraph I will not even talk about the rest of your post. To those that have been reading along, he states that because the beer belly run is for charity it has more economic impact than a event run for profit. Just how can that be RNT? I just do not understand your thinking whats so ever. I am not so sure you do either. It makes no sense. He also states that the money we all spend during events in oconto and marrinette and au gres and sturgeon bay and houghton lake and castle rock and walker and redwing, at the bars restaurants and hotels, bait shops and gas stations has little if no effect on there economys. How many of you believe that when there is a 150 guys for 3 days at a event that what you spend means nothing. The tips you give mean nothing.
Posted 3/26/2010 5:27 PM (#89356 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 1406
Denny, ok then as a fan I don't need to see a list of whos playing I need to see a fun entertaining event full of "stars" that puts me on the edge of my seat looking for that huge exciting adrenaline pumping, heart string pulling outcome. You have to play on my EMOTIONS! THATS what sells, tell me why I should watch right now?
RNT, Someone finaly hit on my points and that has to do with promotion, Guys like Gary are associated to Berkley Tracker or Mercury. But guys like Jeff Gordon (even my wife knows he IS Dupont) and Tiger Woods is known as Nike or Gatorade, The name association goes along way with a sponsor and if you want people from outside the current community of fishing you need to welcome in with open arms those big dollar sponsors not associated currently......While Mercury Crestliner Berkley are great sponsors for directors, the players need to market themselves to sponsors from outside the current market and I agree they need realistic numbers from those directors to support their search for marketing THEMSELVES. You need the hometown boy the rebel the over the edge and the skilled and more. When marketed properly with a product you have something to sell and when you get all that on the list, it would mean something to me and the folks outside the current community.
Posted 3/26/2010 5:47 PM (#89357 - in reply to #89355) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 319
That is NOT what I said and if you are not going to read it in context there is no helping you. You are the one out there asking for help, not me. I have County Executives on public record stating what I have done for an entire county thus far has prevented them from having to raise taxes on the residents of that county…and the event I put together will help even more, I got county agencies to change permit laws to accommodate, I have State Representatives inquiring about the event, the last meeting I spoke at had over 90 local businesses attend to find out what they could do to help...I know darn well how it works. What is even better is I did it with my own money but you with your infamous wisdom know better. Put your plans into action and let's see them work then. Don't attempt to denigrate me on things I didn't say...READ MY FONTS...never once did I ever state it has no affect, what I said was keep it in perspective, something you have a very hard time doing.
It is very apparent that you have everything under control in the industry Stacker…this year should be a booming season for the events and can’t wait to see the masses you are able to draw.
Posted 3/26/2010 6:19 PM (#89358 - in reply to #89356) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 319
Tyee,
I agree with you but I do not see anyone moving in the right direction not only to promote themselves but also making the sport viable enough to attract the large sponsors other sports have. Certain attitudes will assure it will never happen. I have two meetings with city mayors next month that want to develop decent, successful events for their cities (because word gets out in the right avenues when you do things that impress people Stacker) and one has is a prime location for a large fishing tournament. In fact that was one of our initial discussions of things that would be great to have involved, threads like this really make me wonder though. If reality is going to be over looked there is little anyone can do that will help. Resources are scarce and with the vial comments they will dwindle even more. It's either the tournament industry wants to know what is wrong and what needs to be changed or it doesn't. Tournaments have the ball and make up the rules so either stop complaining there is no interest or change the game to draw it. I wish you guys the best of luck but I just do not see it with the way things are going. Someone wants to attempt to draw me as some big villain to tournaments and the fishermen then have at it, there are enough I talk to that know me better than that. Good luck with it.
Posted 3/26/2010 6:50 PM (#89361 - in reply to #89358) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 300
Location: Lincoln Park, Mi
Alright, you sparked my interest and I did a net search on you. Yeah, lots of cudos for your recreational director duties. Seems you know your stuff on the charity level for sure!
BUT, what I really want to hear about is this "creature" sighting near Holly Hill you did interviews about!!! This may need a new thread. LOL
<<
"Bearwolf" witness Steve Kreuger talks to Manwolf and Linda about his famous creature sighting near Holy Hill in Wisconsin. What did the creature look like? What actions did he take when he saw it? What was the police response? Krueger details all these things, plus a second strange sighting as well. Krueger becomes Uncanny Radio's first "witness" guest, as well as their second in-studio interview.
Krueger is a nationally syndicated "fishing and hunting" cartoonist with "Moose Lake." At the time of his encounter, he contracted with the Wisconsin DNR as a deer carcass remover. Our radio interview with him was filmed by a crew from the History Channel as we taped it, for airing next spring in a TV special on werewolves. Be sure to catch this treat!
Posted by Stephen D. Sullivan at 9:01 AM >>>>
Posted 3/26/2010 7:06 PM (#89364 - in reply to #89361) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 319
LOL...Well I was on the last ever show of Monster Quest that aired this last Wed. In fact I just talked with the show's producer and he is planning to attend Moose Fest and he might bring his band along.
Edited by RedNeckTech 3/26/2010 7:09 PM
just fish
Posted 3/27/2010 10:35 AM (#89382 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
In an earlier post of mine I believe I said you cant compare fishing to the other sports because it isn't the same. There is no hands on like nascar, football, etc. Unless you go out in a boat and watch your favorite fisherman all day you see nothing but the weigh in. We have a product here that is very hard to promote compared to all the others, and Bass has aquired ESPN its as simple as that, they are huge and we all know that. Until the walleye market can get on board with them or the internet coverage gets huge we are at the mercy of the few fans that come. That is why I was liking this format at fisrt, there were little things suggested that all of us as anglers could do to help out at no cost to us but some time. Now this has gotten way out of control and I for one am done reading, but I want to thank you, who gave me some new suggestions that I myself will impliment this year to help our sport as much as I can. See you on the water, John Schneider
Posted 3/27/2010 11:01 AM (#89384 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Location: Rhinelander
John,
There are indeed some great suggestions here, and it's a good thing to keep dialog open. Let's continue the conversation without all the distraction.
I believe the fan base for larger venue walleye tournaments will continue to grow as the sport recovers from an economic thrashing unlike any experienced in the past. I think the AIM model is a good start towards recognizing the old model was broken, that the MWC will regain much of it's previous luster, that the paradigm shift we are seeing from print to electronic media will continue, and that the tournament organizers will give the fans what they want if the fans communicate same loudly enough.
I firmly believe each tournament angler out there can assist in the process, but the responsibility for bringing the events to the fans belongs to the media at the end of the day. At least a portion of the key is expanding horizons for each media source as the shift continues, allowing for the coverage to expand in kind.
RNT
Posted 3/27/2010 12:00 PM (#89386 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Is there an apparel company that follows the tour and offers shirts that feature the fishermen for the public?
Posted 3/27/2010 1:00 PM (#89388 - in reply to #89386) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
John, you hit it right on the head. It is tough for some to think small, it always has to be huge. I for one think that if an extra 50 people attend every weigh-in this year, that equates to a success. Then next year the new attendees will tell 2 friends and they will tell 2 and wow, do we have quite a crowd. we do not nor will we ever get 50,000 screaming fans. Nor do we need them. RNT thinks on a large level. I for one know that 1000 people showing up to a one day event is quite good.
NOW, back to cheap and easy. Remember when we were all kids and you used to look at the in-fisherman and knew exactly who AL and BABE was and fishing facts spence petros. I met a young man recently who is 17 and has that exact same look in his eyes that we had. Remember how you used to wait for the walleye insider to come in so you could get the stories. Things like how the mcclelland and probst stories used to make you laugh and "Feel Good" hill billies that borrow money to get home, sleeping in boats, do what ever just to fish. Not a gloom and doom story, a drive, a passion, a want.
Close your eyes and remember something that used to make your mouth water about tourney fishing. Remember the burn in your belly that drove you to get up at 3 in the morning just to tie spinners in january and the feel you get when a full moon starts creeping in. Remember my friends the little girls speech in the movie "Field of dreams" about how people will come, because it makes them feel good. Dont back down, but back up.
I want to hear what used to "Turn you on", pumping that blood. That is the things we need to get back to doing.
Printing a list of players 15 days in advance will help this along greatly.
Posted 3/27/2010 2:05 PM (#89389 - in reply to #89388) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 319
You are correct when you say I think large...I can see where we are not on the same page and my track line has been different from yours.
One small thing that can be done at a low cost (and forgive me if it is already being done) is great eye appealing posters. If you have a field with 50 fishermen it would cost roughly $2 per fisherman to have 100 posters that feature not only the event but each individual fisherman. I am not talking posters that are free from Miller or somewhere. The graphic can be done at no cost and the posters can flood an area 2 weeks before the event. Placement needs to be thought out and the best places seem to be laundry mats and grocery stores. People are always looking for things to do.
Pick a local establishment where all the fishermen will be at after the event has closed for the day (tavern, etc) those places have access to free advertisement through their distributors and can also have posters made up welcoming the fishermen to the establishment and inviting the public to come and mingle. I hope this is already being done.
Use Craig's list to help get the word out about the event, it is free and it works.
At the end of the day offer kids a ride in your power machines...that in itself will draw an interest.
fishing Grandma
Posted 3/27/2010 4:22 PM (#89390 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
I may not know as much as you real fisherman but.... here are some perspectives from the fan base. After meeting redneck tech and talking about the fishing in the area and how to encourage it he pointed us to the fishing show in Madison. I then encouraged a bunch of local families to go and check out the fishing show .I personally went to meet one of the pros that is coming to Montello so my grandson could get an autograph hopefully. Unfortunately I was to late and missed his talk. So we roamed to show and felt very uncomfortable like this was for REAL fisherman not just us ordinary little lake fisherman. The others came back with pretty much the same idea. It is ashame because fishing is a wonderful family activity as well as can get the kids off the couch and back outside. I also think if during your tournaments there was something on shore to see, maybe a kids lesson, maybe some food vendors and booths that include fishing items as well as other things to get the ladies there. As the daughter of a fisherman I enjoyed the hours in the boat and fishing , but not everyone wants to sit and wait to see you come back in. Find a way to get the womesn there! The key, husbands get to go because the wife will be entertained. There are also many, many kids out there who have no way to experience fishing, no Dad, or Grandpa around and Mom hasnt a clue, reach the kids, be in the smaller communities and grow a new fan base. Kids are the answer, I also think the trading cards is great idea. A great way to put a face with a name. We have all been checking out the posters up for Moose Fest and will be able to find which Pro is which from their faces on the Poster. Who ever thought that up was a genius. I have no idea who kasey kahnes is but why would nayone follow him if not for Nascar? I also want to that the Pros who are coming out to Moose fest what a great way to make yourselves seem approachable. You know the old saying if Momma aint happy nobodys happy. Think of MOM and then the kids and it all falls into place, whole families come unless your idea really is to just attract old, single fisherman. Then when they die , you have none!
forever a fan
Posted 3/27/2010 9:37 PM (#89393 - in reply to #89390) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
fishing Grandma - 3/27/2010 4:22 PM
I may not know as much as you real fisherman but.... here are some perspectives from the fan base. After meeting redneck tech and talking about the fishing in the area and how to encourage it he pointed us to the fishing show in Madison. I then encouraged a bunch of local families to go and check out the fishing show .I personally went to meet one of the pros that is coming to Montello so my grandson could get an autograph hopefully. Unfortunately I was to late and missed his talk. So we roamed to show and felt very uncomfortable like this was for REAL fisherman not just us ordinary little lake fisherman. The others came back with pretty much the same idea. It is ashame because fishing is a wonderful family activity as well as can get the kids off the couch and back outside. I also think if during your tournaments there was something on shore to see, maybe a kids lesson, maybe some food vendors and booths that include fishing items as well as other things to get the ladies there. As the daughter of a fisherman I enjoyed the hours in the boat and fishing , but not everyone wants to sit and wait to see you come back in. Find a way to get the womesn there! The key, husbands get to go because the wife will be entertained. There are also many, many kids out there who have no way to experience fishing, no Dad, or Grandpa around and Mom hasnt a clue, reach the kids, be in the smaller communities and grow a new fan base. Kids are the answer, I also think the trading cards is great idea. A great way to put a face with a name. We have all been checking out the posters up for Moose Fest and will be able to find which Pro is which from their faces on the Poster. Who ever thought that up was a genius. I have no idea who kasey kahnes is but why would nayone follow him if not for Nascar? I also want to that the Pros who are coming out to Moose fest what a great way to make yourselves seem approachable. You know the old saying if Momma aint happy nobodys happy. Think of MOM and then the kids and it all falls into place, whole families come unless your idea really is to just attract old, single fisherman. Then when they die , you have none!
enter a great post post:
the old and and die lol dont fall on deaf ears that would be exactly what we are talkind about.
Posted 3/28/2010 7:58 AM (#89395 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 1406
OK Stacker I too have been thinking bigger for the clientle here on WF. The little things you are talking about take time and money from these guys and as many of you know here that is hard to come by when they have invested so heavily already.
Ya know what gets my Blood boiling Denny.....Its the thought of seeing the light of day the steam rolling off the water, the sound of a loon, geese and birds, seeing a wild animal on the shoreline and fishing in peace and quiet.
Those days are far and few between and so appreciated when they come for so MANY anglers. This is obviously quite difficult to fit into your tournamnet model but add in the educational opportunities tournament angling brings and has brought me, then this is what gets my blood boiling........
A 5 hour voyage to Depere last night recap: 20 minute line to launch boat, helping new people to the area on where to fish, showing some new fisherman how to jig for walleyes as you were fishing so close too each other you could wisper those secrets. Bait selection, zig zaging through 300 boats watching people from all over the world fish a great body of water, fine tuning their techniques, having geese and ducks land within 10 feet of the boat. Seeing the joy on my passengers face as they catch walleye after walleye. Then watching the expression on my sons face as he grabs for the video camera as I hook into a huge fish with a 6' Gloomis and a high quality Scheels Reel spooled with 8# power pro (which I never would have bought without the guidance of some tourney anglers years ago, advertising plug)
Then the expression again on his face as I hand him the rod 30 minutes later as I am going to have to be the one to land this fish by hand, we don't believe in nets! For another 20 minutes he plays it like a pro with what he has learned from many guys we have admired for so long. After three attempts she is in the boat for a quick pic and others are gathering around to get a look at the biggest fish they ever saw. 52.5x25.5
Maybe I was pushing too far ahead. and If you want something plain and simple its EDUCATION! Do your best at it, perfect your technique, teach the kids, listen to people and for gods sake keep your nose pointed on the ground and your head out of the clouds!
Good Luck
Tyee
PS. If anyone knows this girls name please let me know, I'd like to get to know her again sometime later in the year!
Edited by tyee 3/28/2010 8:04 AM
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Posted 3/28/2010 10:20 AM (#89401 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
OK so I can't stay away as I feel this is our tournament fishing and is to important, so we need to talk about it. Fishing Granma, I am one of those guys whose face is in the tee shirt for moose fest and would feel privelaged to sign each and everyones keep sake that I can. I really wanted to fish the MWS that weekend but felt this is a chance for me to give to the sport I love and try to help promote it. Also I am looking forward to just getting out there and spending some time with the kids. I have been trying to push for a mini tournament with the kids the day before all aim events. It would be no different than a field trip to a museum or any other place of interest, and I hope my suggestion doesnt go to the wayside. It wouldnt hurt us to give this little time to the local community and its kids...I know everyone would enjoy it kinda like the boat ride suggestion... John Schneider
Posted 3/28/2010 11:26 AM (#89404 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 1406
John, sounds great! lots of good you are doing? I question though the mini tourney for kids, Isn't it enough just to take them for a boat ride in a rig they may never even get to go in in their lifetime, the ability to ask you a few questions or tell you about the big one they once caught, their stories are so very interesting. That alone is priceless, talk to them educate them, a tourney changes the lesson don't you think?
Ask yourself why are you really there? Is it only the money or do you have the mentoring ability? You are a brand for your sponsors, you need to EARN admiration, respect, trust and fellowship, that does not come from having the biggest basket at the end of the day!
A couple of bucks for t-shirts and posters are great, call the local community media, tv, radio, publications, let them know you are in town, get interviews, get on the air get in the publications, go to local schools talk to the chambers yourself get events scheduled around your products, Host a seminar find that niche you need to have people WANT to come see YOU.
Posted 3/28/2010 11:52 AM (#89405 - in reply to #89395) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 319
I will admit I am a little dazed that thinking big is not desirable. I was not thinking of getting 50,000 screaming fans to attend but rather getting 10,000 people to come to the activities, spend money and help off set the cost or even financially support the tournament...they do not have to be screaming, raging fans to do that, just consumers.
Pick a tournament and have nice posters made up with the fisherman's pictures (I will do that for you if you like, just pay the bill) distribute them two weeks before the tournament (I will do that if you like) get a small food vendor (I will help arrange that if you like) and possibly some kids activities on shore (I will talk to the contacts I have if you like) and then build off of that. It will cost about $100 out of pocket and will generate a very small profit.
fishing Gramma
Posted 3/28/2010 1:36 PM (#89408 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
I am glad to here jst fish is coming out. Kids have been talking and unlike years ago not every kid learns to fish from his Dad. Education is a must. I was hoping that during Moose Fest there might be someone or somepeople on land to show those no old enough or maybe even to old some of the tricks of the trade. I am also puzzled that Most of you seem nice but I just don't understand attacking a person that has been getting your faces and fishing out in the public more than his own. - I can asure you I knew none of your names of faces before the posters were hung all over. Even some of the Dads were either city kids or had noone to teach them to fish, now they bring Jr. and snap....you have 2 new fisherman , maybe even Mom. I am picturing many Dads who know the Pros by name showing up to shake hands or just spot a real Pro
RNT
Posted 3/28/2010 5:12 PM (#89415 - in reply to #89408) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
I forgot to say hi to you fishing Gramma. Glad to hear the community is excited about the up coming event.
Posted 3/28/2010 9:41 PM (#89424 - in reply to #89388) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 150
Location: mille lacs, mn.
Every one should know my take, by now, on how to grow this sport in regard to fan base. So I won't go there--AGAIN! But I will say this......
ANY sports marketing company, related to ANY major league sport or major league athlete, would hire Mr. Krueger(AKA RNT) before they'd hire the likes of Stacker or ANY of the people involved with marketing the past 25 years of professional competitive angling--for ANY species at every level!
RNT gets it. 'nuff said..... The rest? Don't have a clue!
Posted 3/29/2010 12:24 AM (#89430 - in reply to #89424) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 319
Some good ideas and different perspectives expressed, just hope it was not all just academic and just goes to waste. Otherwise it’s going to be hard convincing others to help push an apple cart with square wheels up hill.
Posted 3/29/2010 12:54 AM (#89431 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Location: Rhinelander
Before we decide to redesign the wheels on any cart, I strongly suggest you all watch one Bass Masters Elite event on ESPN. This model CLEARLY works and works well; ask any of the folks who attend both Walleye and B.A.S.S. events as part of the job about their perspective.
Please save your comments about this suggestion until you see an entire show shot at an Elite.
just fish
Posted 3/29/2010 9:10 AM (#89439 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Tyee, the kids would get that hands on during that mini tournament, and all fish species would count. Its not like we would have to run 40 miles to catch fish, we would go a little ways and hopefully they would start catching fish. I think they would enjoy the excitement of weigh in and being up in on that stage in front of family and friends. Which I might add would be there to see them, see were this is going? All it requires is a little planning and time from us as fisherman... I think the poster idea is a very good one and would definetly help. Alot of the events have food and kids events already, but I do believe they help. Heck it wouldn't even hurt to have a beer tent, the local fire dept. or who ever could put on the food, soda, and beer. But I really agree with the hands on around the fans viewing the weigh in, and listing on a poster and on the web the different fisherman participating in the event. Word of mouth is also a big part of building a business, and in order to do that you need to give the people what they want. John Schneider
Posted 3/29/2010 10:07 AM (#89443 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 319
One final suggestion...on another thread there was the point that in the pictures one cannot tell who is who at the tournaments just by looking unless you know what the person looks like. Why not utilize your NPAA numbers (or come up with a different number system)....have the number clearly shown on the boat and apparel so one can easily identify who is who. People will start associating the fishermen with their number.
Dan Palmer
Posted 3/29/2010 10:14 AM (#89444 - in reply to #89441) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Awesome coverage Steve and TJ. Thanks and it is great to have you covering the MWC. Let me know if you need anything ! Thanks, Dan Palmer MWC Tournament Director
Posted 3/29/2010 10:20 AM (#89446 - in reply to #89424) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
Steve Fellegy - 3/28/2010 9:41 PM
Every one should know my take, by now, on how to grow this sport in regard to fan base. So I won't go there--AGAIN! But I will say this......
ANY sports marketing company, related to ANY major league sport or major league athlete, would hire Mr. Krueger(AKA RNT) before they'd hire the likes of Stacker or ANY of the people involved with marketing the past 25 years of professional competitive angling--for ANY species at every level!
RNT gets it. 'nuff said..... The rest? Don't have a clue!
hahahahahahaha Steve, got a chip on your shoulder?
I started this thread asking for a list of fisherman before noon of the first day of a event. It has morphed into a "How good I am at marketing the sport". This was not about the sport, it was about knowing the fisherman.
Steve, I would not hire RNT to market anything because he is leaning towards Charity events and if I was trying to make money I am not so sure he could balance such an event with money coming in and going out. Charity events are fine, but the circuits you have fished all these years Mr. Fellegy were not for charity.
Posted 3/29/2010 1:12 PM (#89457 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Location: Rhinelander
'One final suggestion...on another thread there was the point that in the pictures one cannot tell who is who at the tournaments just by looking unless you know what the person looks like. Why not utilize your NPAA numbers (or come up with a different number system)....have the number clearly shown on the boat and apparel so one can easily identify who is who. People will start associating the fishermen with their number.'
First, your idea won't work well for ALL the anglers in the MWC, the subject of current coverage. Too many teams that fish only one event, and too many who really don't care as much about all the hoopla because they are NOT 'Pros' and don't want to be, they just want to fish competitively and have a good time. best way to identify any angler is a name on the front of every garment, large enough to read in a stage image, as the pro's name IS the product. A name on the motor, too. If it's a team and that's the intended brand, both names on EVERY outer garment worn. Anyone ever heard of Parsons and Kavajecz? They haven't been an MWC team for a very long time, and now actually compete against one another on the water. But that's where they got their start, and they were and are very good at on branding and creating awareness of same. Ya gotta spend money to make money in this gig, and that's not going to change much for a long time.
Many of the NPAA Pros do just what you suggest. The NPAA is also changing rapidly and is headed, thanks to Cody, Pat, and many other folks recent hard work, in a very positive direction. RNT, seriously, next time an Elite event is on ESPN Sunday morning, watch the program. MANY of the things suggested here are done at those events, and the crowds number in the thousands during the day when the anglers are out on the water. Pro Angler sheets and cards handed out for future autographs, promotions at the grass roots level, and more....take a look and I bet you will agree those folks know how to do this. That leads to how the Walleye industry can use some or all of that model now and into the future, and if the Walleye industry is able to in the first place due to aforementioned limitations, not the least of which is the absence of ESPN as an owner.
Also, keep in mind, your current project is a single event in a single timeframe...not a circuit covering 4 states over 5 months with the venue changing yearly while asking contestants to pay $600 to a couple thousand to compete traveling sometimes a thousand miles in the process and dealing with ALL the complex relationships in the industry that drive the tournament business. Tournaments, especially the National trails, are currently endemic based, with non endemics finding their way into the promotional fold, and are, whether anyone likes it or not, in play 100% to promote the products and services those endemics and non endemic promotional partners build....and sell. No Pro gets a sponsor because the sponsor wants them to take a kid fishing, unfortunately. Sure, do that, and someday that kid will be an adult buying those products, but the stock holders want dividends NOW. A process, not an event.
That sponsor wants product sold, end of story. What we are discussing here are methods to make it look like something else to the fans, and I'm sorry, they just are not that gullible. Sure, there's LOTS of ways to do this better, Steve F has a bunch of them...all outside the current box and worth listening to. But we can't lose touch with what drives the ability of the Tournament organizers to put an event on the water in the first place and the pros ability to afford to play this game, and it ain't selling a booth for $175. In the case of FLW and Bass Masters, we are talking sponsorships to the event organizers in the MILLIONS of dollars by those endemics in an effort to effectively market their products. The Pros USE those products, and there's no one on the planet better equipped to talk about, show them in extreme use, and in short, promote those products. it's the event organizer's job to make sure the public sees all this. Big money comes from big exposure, and that takes decades of successful hard work by all and strong relationships from every vantage point.
My take? I think the old model has been broken for a couple years. I think the paradigm shift in play and what's coming over the next couple years effecting the Sport for the next couple decades will eventually be the best thing that's ever happened to Pro Walleye angling, and all of us had better pay attention and keep up. Most of us will, I bet.
It's the absolutely critical need to apply equity to the promotional value of each and every pro, each and every event organization, and each and every venue, and it's complicated beyond a simple paragraph or two here. AIM is on track, but is hamstrung to a point by the old model and the fact the new one doesn't yet exist. I personally feel they are moving as quickly as is possible towards that new paradigm, but it's a PROCESS....not an event.
Apples---Oranges. Seriously, apples/oranges...no matter what parallels you attempt to create. Here's your deal:
I am certainly not saying your ideas at least in part don't have merit, they do. But one cannot pretend the events are parallel in the simplest manner, except for the pros taking a few kids fishing...which is a great idea to promote your event and to promote fishing in general and professional angling to a degree.
I'm not a bit surprised to see John and the others listed involved. Look at what the NPAA does at each AIM and at past FLW's...every event. Yep, every one. Those clinics are cool, and draw up to a couple hundred kids. I'm sure of that because we point cameras at the events so folks know they happened and are looking forward to the next event and the next NPAA Kids Clinic. No one is selling a damned thing at those NPAA clinics except good will and fishing talk...for free.
Posted 3/29/2010 1:53 PM (#89461 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 319
There are very stark differences in the approach and the chips will fall where they may.
TX Doc
Posted 3/29/2010 2:47 PM (#89465 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Watching someone go walleye fishing is boring. Watching a weigh-in is worse. I love fishing for walleye, but I wouldn’t cross the street to attend a weigh-in. The only way I could see this becoming interesting would be to use technology and great video production to put spectators in the moment.
Grow interest by making it more like a video game on TV. The screen should have a column of data (air temp, water temp, depth, speed, lure type, lure depth, gps coordinates, etc) overlaying the sonar view, the angler, and somehow a picture of the lure or at least the lake bottom. Get some action on an AquaView. You project a TV shot like that, and I guarantee I’m not changing the channel.
Poker didn’t become a huge success because of trading cards or better advertising. It’s probably even more boring to watch than walleye fishing, but the one little technological gimmick (the pocket camera) has sucked everyone into watching. Now, when your flipping thru the stations and you see pocket aces, you stop and see what happens. Figure out a way to show me a walleye eyeballing a jig on a reef or following a crawler harness and I will not be changing the channel.
It wouldn’t be easy, but you would only need to capture 2-3 cool underwater video shots per tourney and everyone would be hooked (pun intended). Walleye fishing needs a well produced and directed TV series that really shows us the insider perspective. Put us in the moment and we’ll watch.
Posted 3/29/2010 3:17 PM (#89466 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 152
Location: Appleton WI
I wasn't going to say anything on this because I am just getting into tournament fishing but decided I will give you my opinion....coming from a 22 year old "kid". Having these events during festivals is the best possible thing to do. They need to get live music and beer tents there. All of my friends want to go out and drink at night and listen to a band. Many of them do fish but would rather go to a bar instead of a weigh in that they can't have a beer at. Bring them both together and you are going to have a lot more potential for people to jump into the touny scene. Focusing on little kids is great...but it is the teens and twenties that are going to bring people into the sport of tourny fishing. Young kids are a long ways away from being ready to tournament fish. The tournament scene needs to work on attracting more late teens and twenties adults that are looking for that adrenaline rush of competition and are getting ready to purchase their own boats and equipment. There are a lot of younger adults that fish in my area of the state and it would be very easy to get them hooked just like it happened to me.
Edited by StratosBoats 3/29/2010 3:19 PM
just fish
Posted 3/29/2010 3:33 PM (#89470 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
I am running out of time and will comment later tonight, but all the ideas coming in are great, maybe not all helpful but definetly interesting. Fishing Gramma I am looking forward to meeting you at moose fest and we can sit down and chat. I am going to take alot of ideas from that event and try to get some of them implemented in the AIM format. I believe kids are our future in both hunting and fishing, not sitting behind a control playing video games, and I do believe teens and twenty somethings are also the future of our sport. Will respond more later, keep it coming, John Schneider
RNT
Posted 3/29/2010 3:56 PM (#89472 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Steve...it is what it is and you do not inject the same standard with the tournaments. The tournaments are what they are....tell me which would be affected by a change, would Walleye Weekend suffer a loss of attendees if the pro tournament was not there or would the pro tournament suffer a attendee loss if Walleye Weekend was not there....it is a one way street. There are realities that are not being addressed.
Posted 3/29/2010 4:07 PM (#89474 - in reply to #89470) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
Fishing Gramma, no one knocked his event, but questioned his expected numbers for a first year event that has not happened yet. He stated the same thing about walleye tourneys exagerating numbers. Believe what you may. Also, the suggestions he makes, not all, but most of what he says has been done and is being done at tournaments allready. He is commenting on a subject he has obviously not been in touch with, it's evident.
Posted 3/29/2010 4:11 PM (#89475 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Location: Rhinelander
It most certainly is not a one way street. Look at the Merc National and Walleye Weekend's history to obtain a better understanding as to how they integrate.
Stacker, exactly.
TX Doc, your ideas can be done in a TV show weeks after the event, but nothing out there supports the technology necessary to get the underwater stuff affordably live to the web yet. I built this thing to almost do what you suggest, with a wireless card I can upload this stuff in tiny segments in seconds, but the upload stinks. It's a studio that records underwater and above at the same time to a computer hard drive, direct to edit. I can dovetail an Aqua Vu into the production, and really come up with some interesting stuff.
Here's an image of the studio in a Just Encase box, and a sample video is a couple posts down of what it can shoot underwater. I bet your vision isn't too far away in available technology, but virtual is way more likely and is being done by ESPN and Lindners Fishing Edge pretty well already.
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Posted 3/29/2010 4:22 PM (#89478 - in reply to #89475) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
I fully understand how they integrated and I fully understand which parts carry the over-whelming bulk of the attendees. It is what it is.
fishing Grandma
Posted 3/29/2010 4:28 PM (#89479 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
You are all very knowledgable when it comes to fishing, the tournaments in the fish world. Sometimes and idea will come from a different direction so please remain open minded as fishing is a wonderful activity and more people need to learn about it. suggestions should be taken for what they are and use what you will without belittling those who had a comment. If that was not what you meant you should probably reread your posts and see how they may have come off. Posting is much harder that talking face to face and people can come away with a bad impression
Posted 3/29/2010 5:03 PM (#89486 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 1406
"I bet your vision isn't too far away in available technology, but virtual is way more likely and is being done by ESPN and Lindners Fishing Edge pretty well already"
Steve? Seriously? WHO?...its being done already? Then where are all these millions of fans? No one is producing that "edge of your seat excitement or Blood pumping adrenalin rush we need to stay connected and that target is the existing fisherman, what about the rest of the world. If you think the bass clasic is doing it your sadly mistaken, unless of course your already a fisherman wanting to compete and that is your target audience for growth.....very small audience
There are a ton more people that need to find out about this sport and quite frankly as gramma puts it...we bring them nothing to draw them in! HECK heres an interesting tidbit for you..... I would venture to guess that nearly 50% of the people coming to buy fishing equipment from me don't even know what a walleye is. 50% of them don't even know there are tournaments associated to Walleyes and if they do the majority of those hate them!! Come spend a Saturday with me and I'll show you what I mean!
Good Luck
Tyee
RNT
Posted 3/29/2010 5:07 PM (#89487 - in reply to #89474) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
So Spring Valley MWC had crafters, vendors, entertainment, food vendors, prizes for the public, and some great attractions besides the tournament? It had a strongman competition, volleyball tournament, BINGO for the older, bungee trampoline, a family fishing tournament or even Karaoke or a DJ? Yes Stacker, I believe I am missing something because if they were there it sure was not advertised well.
Posted 3/29/2010 5:20 PM (#89490 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Location: Rhinelander
Tyee,
ESPN is doing that. And yes, there's millions of fans watching the shows, the numbers for BASS are very impressive. I suggested you watch an Elite event, do it. GREAT stuff from the boat, this Sunday's show with Mike I wrestling his fish into the boat and Crews looking around for a rod that went overboard and actually grabbing it before it was gone....priceless stuff....but not live. Great stuff from the shore. Underwater shots (after the fact, but accurate) and virtual examples of what caught fish as well. All done for TV. And all very very expensive.
So yes, SERIOUSLY, it's being done. Attend a Bass Master's Classic, and see if the same remarks you just made fit. They won't.
RNT,
If the MWC tried to do that stuff in Spring Valley in March...recipe for disaster. You ever been there at this time of year? The weather was cold but nice for March for the most part, yet I spent better than 20 minutes a day scraping mud that was alike glue off my boots. The MWC doesn't try to be a festival or make a huge deal out of shore activities except the Kids clinic they did for a screaming batch of excited youngsters. They are about a Team fishing tournament trail that is supported by the Teams and sponsors, and the draw to the sponsors isn't necessarily the crowd at this one...it's the MWC anglers. Different goals than AIM or FLW and for excellent reasons.
Posted 3/29/2010 5:28 PM (#89491 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 1406
RNT....So true. It's Marketing 101!
Defining your audience and bringing them something exciting. There are millions of people that could care less about fishing much less tournament fishing, and like I said from the beginning, Even my wife knows Jeff Gordon drives for Dupont. And no she doesn't drive fast but does buy their products!
Good Luck
Tyee
OK Steve, I'll watch but if it's anything like the last 5 years, I doubt it will bring in many new fans, although it might sell some products as all the others have been so over loaded with commercials!
Edited by tyee 3/29/2010 5:32 PM
RNT
Posted 3/29/2010 6:09 PM (#89493 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
My point is the things mentioned are not and have not been developed for the use of the tournaments by the tournaments. The closest is AIM but there is a big difference between the tournament bringing, organizing and owning the event to the tournament piggy-backing an existing event. The tournaments would benefit greatly if they were the main sponsors of a community event and organized, paid for and set up 40 food vendors, live music, 100 retail vendors, a carnival and so on where the tournament has complete control and credit of the event and profits from it.
Scott Steil
Posted 3/30/2010 8:24 AM (#89506 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
This has been a good thread minus all the personal jabs. I just got done reading the entire thing. There is no doubt we need to do more to make fishing more interesting, because when the action is unfolding, it is. As Steve said, if you watch the BASS Elite series coverage, it is REALLY, REALLY good.
My goal this year is to show some of the Reality aspects of fishing so I am trying something on my own. While prefishing for the FLW and AIM tournaments you can watch me live via the remote webcam mounted in my boat. If you go to my web site you should be able to watch streaming audio and video live while I fish. As long as the weather allows you will be able to watch me fish. And, if the Lake Erie walleye cooperate it could actually be pretty interesting.
That is just one small thing that needs to be done. Watching coverage of a weigh-in is not exciting. People want to see what is happening in the boat, they want to see how it is done and all the highs and lows and the thoughts and decision making that goes into the process. Hopefully I can capture some of that this year.
TX Doc
Posted 3/30/2010 8:56 AM (#89507 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
If this was my project, I would be talking to the producers of Ice Road Truckers, Deadliest Catch, the World Series of Poker, Dirty Jobs, or one of the logging shows.
You guys could create the ultimate reality show: competition, drama, danger, great personalities, conflict, humor, outdoors education, and technology.
I wouldn't be fishing for local business, I would be thinking about Fortune 500 company ad dollars.
Scott Steil
Posted 3/30/2010 8:59 AM (#89508 - in reply to #89507) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Very good point TX, that is my same line of thinking. If the current model is not working we need to change some things and Reality TV works. Competitive fishing gives us a great platform, it just needs to be showcased in the right way.
just fish
Posted 3/30/2010 9:00 AM (#89509 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Hey Scott, that is a really cool idea, and am looking forward to seeing it. I to hope that can be done in more boats than just yours and I think this is the break out year for walleye fisherman. I also agree there are alot of great ideas, some are worth trying and don't cost much but a little time, others are to costly with the budgets these circuits are working on. One of the things I don'y understand is why piggy backing is a bad thing, the sponsors like to see numbers in the stands and if that is a tool that works why not use it. One other thing that I really thought was cool and I myself would come to a AIM weigh in just to listen to them was Scott and Marty Glorvigen doing the MC ing. They work very good together, funny, smart, witty, and they definetly keep the ball rolling. If you all haven't had the chance to see them strut their stuff you need too... John Schneider
Posted 3/30/2010 10:02 AM (#89510 - in reply to #89507) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
TX Doc - 3/30/2010 8:56 AM
If this was my project, I would be talking to the producers of Ice Road Truckers, Deadliest Catch, the World Series of Poker, Dirty Jobs, or one of the logging shows.
You guys could create the ultimate reality show: competition, drama, danger, great personalities, conflict, humor, outdoors education, and technology.
I wouldn't be fishing for local business, I would be thinking about Fortune 500 company ad dollars.
Do you know what they do very well on each of the shows listed? Come on you know? Yep, they tell the stories about the people in the show. They are not just showcasing crabs, it was phil and the jail bird and the guy on the logging show who the boss went to his house or the single dad. Even pawn stars tell about the players.
Walleye fishing has to. PERIOD!! I know the stories of some and you would be surprised if you did to. These guys are a piece of americana, TELL SOMEONE,
Edited by stacker 3/30/2010 10:04 AM
RNT
Posted 3/30/2010 10:33 AM (#89512 - in reply to #89509) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
John,
The point on piggy backing is this. The sport is looking for new fans and trying to stay afloat financially at the same time...attaching to another event might draw in a few new fans but does it help alleviate the cost? The tournament is a very small part of a very large event that provides the public with unlimited things to do.
It would be better financially and for exposure to take the bull by the horns and start, organize and run an entire event for the public that is similar, if not rivals, the events that are piggy backed. Not only would the tournament be closer connected to the community for putting on a family event that they want to attend but you would also have the tournament and fishermen benefit financially off of it.
just fish
Posted 3/30/2010 10:57 AM (#89514 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
RNT, I am just speaking from AIMS position right now. We are a group of investors, tournament anglers, and business people that are thinking outside the box and trying to change the look of tournament walleye fishing. Because we are in the early stages our resources are limited and even though I agree with your idea, we need to move forward according to our means. Therefore in my opinion at this time piggy back looks good. How many ventures have failed because the people involved spent money they didn't have, and went so far into debt they couldn't see the forest through the trees. Sometimes its better to test the water then jump in head first.. John
Posted 3/30/2010 4:41 PM (#89527 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Member
Posts: 1195
Location: Orland Park, IL
I know other models have been considered. I tend to think of things like WWE and MMA on Spike TV. Both of those created their fan base and just exploded. Maybe there is something there that can be learned.
Posted 3/30/2010 4:50 PM (#89529 - in reply to #89527) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
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Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
Mark Komo - 3/30/2010 4:41 PM
I know other models have been considered. I tend to think of things like WWE and MMA on Spike TV. Both of those created their fan base and just exploded. Maybe there is something there that can be learned.
Well now Mark, they did not get people to actually like wrestling to get the fan base, they created the wrestlers to promote in the venue, not unlike the way the PWT was doing it. Seems that model keeps coming to the top.
RNT
Posted 3/30/2010 5:11 PM (#89530 - in reply to #89529) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
A couple of road blocks when comparing or emulating what they did with wrestling
#1 Fishing is not a spectator sport
#2 Wrestling has always been Good vs. Bad, each wrestler creates a personality to draw the fans to them and uses it within the actual sport...it is the very reason why it is a success.
#3 They also sell merchandise...lots of it.
#4 People pay money to watch it on TV and on tour, lots of money.
#5 They utilize the large residual income from its fan base to PAY the wrestlers to wrestle whether they win or loose...they pay them quite well.
Posted 3/30/2010 6:26 PM (#89532 - in reply to #89215) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Location: Rhinelander
A very considerable portion of 'reality TV' is scripted as much as what is known for some reason as 'Professional Wrestling'.
Scott, interesting take and interesting idea. The BASS guys have the Bass Cam, which is a similar concept...with no audio.
Scott Steil
Posted 3/31/2010 9:51 AM (#89552 - in reply to #89532) Subject: Re: Walleye tourney fans
Wrestling is fake?????? Say it ain't so!! But seriously, the point people are making and as I talked about last week on my Blog I believe for any model to work, you need to who who the fisherman are. If people can relate and feel they know who the fisherman are, you get something to watch. As fisherman, it is up to us to provide a better show, but we need a platform to do that on.
proeye
Posted 3/31/2010 8:03 PM (#89583 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
This year on my facebook, i will post every tournment i will be fishing in. i love the fan base that follows myself. it's amazing how many follow the aim tounery, it's great for my sponsors, I'm bad typing but if we foucus this energy together we can make this a great fan base event, Team G3 Jim Pyle
Guest
Posted 4/1/2010 8:21 PM (#89624 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Walleye tourney fans
This thread provides more than enough info. for the public on the sport.
Walleye tourney fans
