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| 55 boats! Wow, you think they are rethinking making this a AA League? |
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| R u sh*ting me? |
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| I wouldn't do that. Just heard from nearly half the field after the meeting. That would be about 20 guys that texted or called with the exciting news. I think there are some really unhappy hombre's in Detroit.
Also, seems to be a few stickerless "blue" kickers on the Rude powered boats. That 250 lb E-Tec kicker isn't making much of a splash so far.
1-3's predicted for tomorrow on Erie. 4-6 Friday morning. Water, including the river is crystal clear.
Seems wierd that the first day is Thursday.
Pretty much it for coverage anywhere. You heard it hear First! |
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| it's going to a tough year. people can,t aford the prices anymore especaily with this economy,, unless your sponserd. which are far from few,, the guys that say they make a living fishing? that not true they make there money from sponsors and other activites , but they cannot make a living fishing tournments alone. not walleye fisherman , maybe bass but it's still tough. |
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Location: Darboy, wi | Do you think having 6 tournaments has anything to do with it? |
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| Looks like this will be the last year for the FLW. Payouts will be ugly. You could make more money picking up pop cans in a ditch. |
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| kinda sad but in a way i think it serves them right with the new format and payouts, the league guys in wisconsin and minnesota supported most of the league events over the past several years, what did we get for that? The average weekend angler is sure out of it be it money or available time off. It will be interesting to see how many guys make the jump from the league to the new format, my guss is less than 5%. It is a good oppurtunity for the guys that were on the fence and wanted to dabble in the tour side now can at reduced cost. I guess you can call it a changing of the times but the walleye tourney future sure looks bleak....Hopefully AIM grows this year, at least the pros will have somethng to fish if AIM keeps growing and takes off Good luck to all that participate in the new FLW format, now where did I put those golf clubs 8 years ago????
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| I don't Know? but i do know , i have a hard time with tournaments that come out the area that can,t pronounce the citys name if you know i mean! theres more money spent on their fantasy fishing than there is for the tournament. |
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| This is a sad day for us as tournament anglers. First the PWT, now it isn;t looking good for the FLW. Who could have perdicted this when the RCL was paying 400 gs for the winner of their Championship. I hate to even guess how many will be at the ILL. river event... John Schneider |
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Location: Darboy USA | I agree 100% with Shep on his opinion about dropping the leagues. One of the worst decisions the FLW has ever made and I hope that isn't the start of the demise for them. I also feel bad for the Pros who had counted on the FLW continuing to run a great Tour level program as in years past, gonna be awfully hard to be a "Walleye Pro" just by fishing alone these days. Probably why some of the best sticks in the world aren't fishing this anymore.
I do hope this catapults AIM into bigger and better things and that they draw a lot more interest this year. Seems to be more guys fishing all of these events and dropping FLW from what I've heard, which I think is great. The CRR format is the future of fishing and I wish AIM nothing but the best for 2010. I hope they can start drawing 75+ boats consistently this year.
Good luck to all AIM and FLW pros this year, I hope you can survive this bump in the road and make the most of your now limited options.
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Based on 55 fisherman what are they going to pay out, the top 5...10...15? How much will the payout be? What a shame!! |
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Location: Badgerland | ABOUT 36.66% OF WHAT THE PAYOUTS WERE BASED ON 150 BOATS.
http://walleyetour.flwoutdoors.com/tournament.cfm?cid=5&did=0&t=det...
Edited by 620 4/8/2010 10:36 AM
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Location: Rhinelander | Doing the percentage math, I'd say First will be over 9K and under 10K. |
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| Jayman - 4/8/2010 4:25 PM
Why is it such a joke that the number of boats are low for the FLW in Detroit? No one was laughing last year at AIM with only 50-60 boat fields. I don't find anything funny about the state of the walleye tournament world these days. It's good to have competition and options.
No one was laughing last year? I recall some outright disdain for AIM before they even held a tourney, and some definate glee that they didn't have the big fields. Here, and especially over there at WC.
Is it a joke that they only had 55 boats at Detroit? No. But it was certainly predicted that lowering the enties, and payouts would have an adverse effect on who was going to participate. Considering FLW is over a decade old, it is the established circuit, it is sad to see this happen.
I said when the PWT was shutting down, that competition was healthy and needed for the FLW to grow. Since the demise of the PWT, the FLW has declined each year, to a point that it can't even be considered a premier circuit at this time. |
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| Mr. Darboy - 4/8/2010 8:57 AM I agree 100% with Shep on his opinion about dropping the leagues. One of the worst decisions the FLW has ever made and I hope that isn't the start of the demise for them. I agree. Instead of investing a small amount of money into making the Leagues a little more economically viable to fish and promoting future tournament anglers, they did what they did, and now they got what they got. |
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| I agree with you Shep and as everybody knows Aim was the brunt of alot of criticism and the laughing stock by many onlookers. But one of the things that stands out about AIM is the fact it is owned by the fisherman who wanted to protect their future and every other tournament fisherman's future by moving forward with the times instead of just continuing down the same dead end road. I truly believe that in order to have a successful circuit the fisherman's feelings have to come into play, you can't have a circuit without the fisherman. They want to fish at a location were they can catch fish, feel safe, not have to travel all over the country during these tough times, and have fun doing it. You take these things away from them along with the chance to make money, what do you have left??? John Schneider |
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| I'll throw this in... could it be guys are looking to stay local this year. they have an east and west right? this being the eastern most event first of the year. just a groggy thought. I'll have to check the results. |
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| Checked the results. nice weights! The thing that hit me is the fact that 110 guys are fishing in a tournament and I'm getting ready to do 8 miles in a rainstorm. I know where I would rather be. If it was closer...
From results posted A few weeks ago here, I'd say the next event on the ill river may have a good turnout. my 2 cents. |
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| Part of the problem is the East/West and the added 2 tourneys. Coupled with the lower payout schedule, it made if economically impossible for most of the touring pro's to do all 6 qualifiers. Again, another decision that results in lower entrees.
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| Shep the whole problem is payouts... It doesn't matter if it is six or four tournaments, when you go to these places for ten to fourteen days you have hotel expenses, gas, food, and many others. Not counting wear and tear on vehicles and hopefully no breakdowns. If the touring pro can't make money with a good finish they arn't going to come. In order to have good payouts #1 you need to have entry fees high so the projected prize pool can be high, #2 you need the touring pros and locals signing up. there for the prize pool is high, the fisherman will come otherwise they will fish the local stuff and just have fun. I myself would have fished the east if it wasnt for the low payout and the ILL. river event. Didn't want to go fish spawned out saugers... |
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| 55 boats weighed fish it doesnt mean there was only 55 boats in the tourny? Any one have true and accurate numbers? Looking on flw website they dont have standing listed as of yet inwich the bolo's would be listed also! |
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Location: Menasha, WI | Ritch, The full field is listed under 'Pairings' at the FLW site. There are only 55 boats. Nobody zeroed yesterday.
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| http://walleyetour.flwoutdoors.com/tournament.cfm?dpl=1&all=1&sr=51&rpp=50&cid=5&t=pairings&tid=6502&tday=2&sort=bn Shows 55 anglers paired up on the pairings page. |
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Location: Appleton wi | Thanks Bob, I'd agree with with john and shep. Its all coming down to cost vs potential return and at the same time team tourny's seem to be remaing strong. It will be interesting to see how AIM does this year |
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| after sitting back and reading for months without commenting for fear of going of on one of my many uncontroled rants with run on sentances , poor spelling and gramatical errors. i have no comment. but it all makes me kinda sad. ok just one little comment. the country is heading in the wrong direction to support competitive walleye fishing. expences cant be covered without finnishing in the top 5 % of the fields (if that) sponsorship and promotional funds will continue to be cut due to decreasing sales revinue in a national fishing market that will continue to slow. our youth does not fish. they go to McDonalds for fish. when it costs the average guy 100 dollars in fuel 5 bucks at the launce, 20 bucks for soda and snacks .10 for bait, a standard day on the water gets a little nuts with a full size truck and larger boat. time to buy an old aluminum 16 or 17 footer with an old tiller! time to keep and eat your fish, dig your own worms, make your own sandwich and pull the boat with the car. do a bar tournament now and then for braging rights and count your blessings that you will have a roof over your head in 5 years. we had a good run.
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| Everyone can blame this on the economy, which is a big part of it. But there are alot of fisherman that fish tournaments because it has gotten in their blood. They love the competition, the friendships that are made and fishing all these new and exciting bodies of water.. I own my own bar and restaurant, and instead of sitting on my hands and trying to ride this thing out I advertised more and made sure the customer got what they are looking for. Good food at a good price, a good and friendly atmosphere to bring their family to, and a courteous wait staff that knows how to use the words thank you all the time. My point being is we are giving them what they want and not trying to force feed something they don't.. John Schneider |
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Location: Menasha, WI | time to buy an old aluminum 16 or 17 14 footer with an old tiller! time to keep and eat your fish, dig your own worms, make your own sandwich and pull the boat with the car minivan. do a bar tournament now and then for braging rights I'm livin' the High Life!
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| Big John.... i didnt comment on the walleye fans thread but I AM your no.1 fAN!
I will always watch for your name on the leader board. Always! Ya i guess i long for the good old days. lol...
And Viking you should have some fish showing up on the north end rock piles soon. Time to get that rig out and welcome to the Club. Tiller club forming! regulations require no larger than a 17 1/2 footer tip to transum, and no more than 75hp. good competion , good food, good freinds and cold beer and soda.
Brad Maurer |
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| oh ya John , there must be an old 14 footer or something behind a shed up in Shawno! pull your kicker off the ranger and come play with the real competion. lol.. |
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| Ritch, you are all straightened out now, but I was about to point out that you should look at the time of my opening post. The night before, and I knew it was 55 boats.
You heard it hear First, on WalleyeFirst.com!
John, I agree. Absolutely. It about the money. 100%. That is why I think the FLW made a mistake by downgrading there "Tour" to AA league status, thinking they could pay big league players with minor league salaries. Not gonna happen. And "You are my biggest fan!"
Brad, I just knew you couldn't not say something! How was your winter?
Edited by Shep 4/9/2010 2:01 PM
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| They also tweaked the bass trails too... |
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| Thanks guys,I miss those days with Brad, Chad, and their patchwork skeeter, if memory serves me right. Fishing as we know it was on the upside and what fun it was. Now we are fighting for what we love and it seems like the fisherman are getting shafted. We as anglers support these companies by wearing their attire and we arn't even sponsored by them. Most of the circuits are concerned with only one thing and that is making money and putting on a good show for their sponsors. They don't for the most part care about the fisherman and what he thinks. I do believe there are exceptions such as AIM and Jim Coons MWS, but getting back to my point without the fisherman they will have no tournaments and will have no revenue. I have a question for you all and I would be curious to hear your guess regarding this statement. I believe that at least 70% of the anglers out there wear at least one companies product logo and don't get a dime for advertising. And I must confess I did it too, so tell me what is your guess? John Schneider |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere |
Shep. winter was ok, ice fishing on baggo was tough but we scrounged up some fish. got out of sheboygan for some browns action, got to new london for some walleyes, and hit a bunch of golf balls. broke 80 once this year already from the blues in the wind so the swing is ok and the short game servived the winter.
John... lol that old 1850 skeeter ....lol split that thing in half twice but only set it on fire once! lol...
I didnt send in for the Merc National(regret it already) thinking about MWC ... of course Jim's MWS are always attractive and a good option . Chad will come back home from Austraila for the month of october. anyone who knows of a little walleye tourny in october please give me the heads up. he misses the game and is now buying shares in Race horses to curb the itch.
to johns question about supporting the industry without compensation. I would say many do and always will, for some its more of a show off thing. others chose to support who support the tours they fish. I would have no problem supporting and displaying sponsors of the MWS with a few decals or patches as at that level the sponsor support to the tour is as much important as one of your own. pro staff programs for gear may give you a discount or a few items of free gear. therefore smaller decals or patches i woulnt have a problem with. wrapping a boat? LOOKS COOL as hell! but no that would take a check or a major deal. Face it,,,, how much return does a sponsor get for the displayed logo? at the same time the guys running around doing shows and sencerly taking the time to demo new products and promote there sponsors every time they get the chance or show off there rigs and products to guys that they bump into at the gas station or were ever are few and far between.. unfortunatly i have not met to many of these unselfish promotors and unfortunatly the ones out there are not fairly compensated for the type of promotors they are. In the past my boat and truck was stickered up a bit.. all supported me.. some in cash for entry, some like my employer who gave me the company gas card (priceless!) and some little decals from the likes of stren, offshore, and
gamakatsu for a little product support and a fair discount... but i would say like you said John 70 % dont get anything for there support. i see a lot of Factory boat shirt, loaded with a burkly patch, st.croix, offshore, you name it and i know darn well they get nothin for there support.. although you wouldnt be able to pry the guys st.croix rod from his hands . and he did spend 50 grand on that ranger .... its sparkly and all... looks good in the photo's when you hold up the plywood if you look like a big shot... looks good for the tour and the show... i dont dress up much anymore... but hey , the guy or team may spend 500 to 5000 in expences to fish a certain tournament... guess if he wants to show off a bit he paid for it... silly though isnt it? if your writing articles and are on the cover of magazines on tv comercials and bill boards heck ya you should get a bunch for whats on your shirt.... other than that the return the manufacturer gets for the patches you wear is minimal so you wont get much compensation... if your Tiger Woods Ya your going to sell some gear for Nike cloths clubs and stuff worth Millions to Nike... ok now you should demand a check!
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere |
Take John for example, here you have a guy who has a great social personality,(did i mention i was his #1 fan?)
but john is exposes not just wile fishing but his buisness. how many folks walk into his place a year. seasonal visitors and all. many many know John as an aproachable guy. im sure if he had a buck for every time someone asked him... hey John i need to get some rod holders for my boat, what should i buy? what are you running for line counters and why? what do i need to catch walleyes on the Bay? im sure this happens not stop durring the year... yet how do you put a price on it? how does a guy like John not have a deal when they nexts guy who will walk past you at the launch without a smile or even a howd your day on the water went. power loads the big rig up on the trailer and drives off as you get a glimps of his sweet new landing net but never got a chance to ask what the thing was and where you can get one. Whats wrong with the picture? |
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Location: Darboy, wi | If you take AIM and divied it up into a east and west your going to have the same results as the FLW. It is just sad to see the money is just not there to make the pro's want to travel two or three states over to compete. The FLW was looking at the League boaters to hop in and fill the field up, but that is not the case in Detroit. They need the pot's back up over a 100 grand to draw more pro's. My goal was to hold one of them big checks up on stage one day, that dream is slowly fadding away! If they want to grow the sport they need to throw more money at it! Less corporate GREED! Loosen up the belts a little and get that pot up there to draw the pro's! |
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| Good points Brad, the reason I brought this up is I heard through a very good friend of mine that a point was made about giving the touring walleye pros a few dollars and that would satisfy them. Now to me this says that we are willing to settle for a little compensation so we can say we are sponsored and put the logos on our clothing. I have had this conversation with Dan Stier and he refuses to wear anything unless they make it worth while, and I am sure there are more that do the same. I want to see this industry grow and become the household figure Bass is and maybe if cards are played right bigger than they are. The AIM Circuit is on the right track and is growing as we speek, come and see what it is all about at the weigh ins. Come and fish it and realize what a organization filled with good ( fishermen, business men, business women) can accomplish when they all work together and strive for one goal. John Schneider |
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Location: Appleton wi | Shep yes i am straightened out for now!lol
John, i am guilty one as the next! I'm also a big fan of yours and your success. I met you at the oconto motel a few times with denny and the gang and you kept us laughing most of the night!Your right on with your post above! |
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| Go to FLW and watch their live coverage. Hey, there's some college kids fishing for bass. Shows you where FLW is putting their eggs and again, doesn't care about the walleye fisherman or market. |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | John, I think you are right when you say that there are several people who wear the company logos for looks. I even know a couple guys who promote product and show their logos all over their truck, clothing and boats for companies that they get no financial compensation from. I've been tournament fishing for 5 years now and have seen this first hand. Do I own a jacket ot sweatshirt that has a certain company logo on it? Sure I do. Do I wear it? Sure I do because I either won it or I have been treated by that company well. Do I go out of my way to promote them by putting stickers on my truck, embroid their logos on my tournament shirt, etc? NO! The only sponsors I go out of my way for are the ones that help pay my bills for tournaments. I promote them all year round and try to help sell their product or get people to do business with their establishments. Getting a discount for product is great and you spend less money for the things you need. However, a person cannot survive in the tournament fishing industry on discounts. I'm nowhere even close to considering myself a pro fisherman. However, I can feel your pain when some people spend 3 years giving out free advertising for a company that they hope will sponsor them someday. This undercuts the pros and those that look for sponsors who will help them out financially. If I was a business owner in the fishing industry, I would have the attitude that would go something like this: Why should I give you $1000 to go out and promote me during your fishing endeavors when this guy over here does the same thing for me and all I have to give him is a jacket , a couple shirts and a hat? This is what I believe is going on all over the place. My take on this: No pay no display! I'm not going to take time away from my family or use a vacation day to do a seminar or a sport show for a company that does not help me financially. There are always sales and good deals on product that I can buy stuff at a discount. Don't get me wrong, I will say good things about a product that I believe in and works for me if they sponsor me or not. However, I will make it a point to ensure everyone I come in contact with on a daily basis knows about the companies that help pay my bills. There is a big difference between being on a Pro Staff and being sponsored in my eyes. This is just my opinion and hope noone takes any offense to this post. For those of you wanting to get sponsored for fishing, the best tip I can give you is to stay out of the fishing industry and do business with local establishments. They seem to appreciate it more when someonme comes in, buys something and says " Bob referred me to you and I am glad he did". That my friend is old fashion business. Word of mouth will get you further than just showing decals on your stuff. |
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| just want to say great job dean the cream of the crop come to the top no matter how many boats.
Mike Lewis |
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| Shep - 4/8/2010 9:12 PM
No one was laughing last year? I recall some outright disdain for AIM before they even held a tourney, and some definate glee that they didn't have the big fields. Here, and especially over there at WC.
If that's true, why did I spend all winter promoting AIM fishermen in my "Twenty Questions" articles and Live Wednesday night chats? Anyone that's ever talked to ME about AIM knows that I like the CRR format. But, you're not one of those people, so....
Juls |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | in defence of Juls, i have been one myself to get a bit negitive and quick to comment on our little internet discussions and juls can rub folks the wrong way wile playing web cop for these heated sometimes frustraiting issues. I dont know her personaly met her in person a few times , But I Do know One thing.. she does love the walleye game and has offered up her personal time a lot more often than most all i know for the cause. though she has always seemed to come off as a bit of an FLW homer i would say her heart is in a good place. AIM is on the right Track and i love there coverage as a fan. go back and watch the GB event in order 1 vidio at a time and you will be blown away on the content offered by Aim. for those who pick sides between competing cercuits i dont think much can be done. i would say 50% seem to think they must chose a side... the rest of us ... well... we wonder sometimes why folks cant support both or all. big or small, the FLW needs to put there money into a grass roots league type format bringing everyone togather for the championship including qualifiers from 3 big money events , big pro's have time to do 3 and there will be plenty of entry's in the leage events to offer competion and a Monster money championship. my two cents agian. |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | THIS MAY BE DEEPER, im thinking there is something wrong with folks who chase Walleyes, i think we are a bit messed up. how we can chase a creature that kicks us in the teath from hour to hour much less day to day or season to season. ohter fisherman will stop and partake in a good crappie bite or blue gills, bass ,perch or Muskies. small mouth are nothing but a pain in the but for me on my home lake and i look at the 4lb fish with bitterness when i catch them. why am i so one track minded. i think we are all geneticaly flawed and our stubborness caries over to our abuility to play nice between one another. i think we are all made up of the same track of thinking and we cant accept the fact that our minority in the industry is just what it is.... a minority. im calling Oboma! he will help us! |
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Location: Rhinelander | Alright, Shep and Juls both have an accurate perspective on this. Yes, there was a couple of very abusive AIM threads over there in the past.... that's how they roll and it is what it is. What we need to remember is Juls is not the one who sets policy there, and IMO has done quite well representing the better side over there this winter and last year to assist AIM in promoting the Pros. |
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| Steve is right,
Juls has been fantastic over the winter in trying to promote all of the tournament fisherman. AIM's anglers have not been ignored, but have been showcased. Thanks Juls, and by the way, great interview with the top ten guys at the FLW Detroit tournament!
Gary |
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| Gary and Steve, you are spot on about Juls, I love it when she interviews me and she is no slouch as a fisherman either. When Marge and her were teamed up in the MWC they were definitely the best looking pair in the field. John Schneider |
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| Juls Unlogged - 4/11/2010 6:17 AM
Shep - 4/8/2010 9:12 PM
No one was laughing last year? I recall some outright disdain for AIM before they even held a tourney, and some definate glee that they didn't have the big fields. Here, and especially over there at WC. One moderator there was quite open in the bias against AIM.
If that's true, why did I spend all winter promoting AIM fishermen in my "Twenty Questions" articles and Live Wednesday night chats? Anyone that's ever talked to ME about AIM knows that I like the CRR format. But, you're not one of those people, so....
Juls
My answer was about AIM not getting bashed last year. I believe I said before AIM even held a tournament. My comment is qualified as such, and is accurate. I didn't mention the work you've done this past winter, which I feel was great stuff. Sorry for the confusion, Juls. |
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Location: Orland Park, IL | I had a great time, and fished with some solid fellows. Both were very knowledgeable and friendly. I learned a few things, which is my goal, up front,going in. If I cash a check great, if not, then its still fun for me.
There are still a lot of pros I would love to get into a boat with. With all the reasons mentioned, its too bad some folks arent fishing it. That doesnt bode well for the co's. I am not particular when its comes to fishing with a big name, sponsored guy. Knowledge is key.
The Tour was the brass ring for some of us leaguers and tour co's. We all know going in that face time and reputation was an investment, and has a cost. But it was manageable. My participation in league/tour events as boater/co have been nothing but positive. So, I thank the FLW for that. And thank all the pros/cos for their patience.
But there may be more than just economics here. All things considered equal, would there be more boats if the canada side was open, or if it were a river only tournament. I would say yes. And what about the soft costs? Does the pro ever get to the point where he feels the pro/am format just isnt worth it anymore?
Funny, I hit the DR one last time for quick trip this morning. I took some of Nates suggestions and Andy's suggestions, and combined them. Whacked 31 incher this morning jigging. Now thats a blast. |
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Location: Orland Park, IL | Here's a nice one I got. Couldnt have done it without some help.
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Location: Elgin, Illinois | "Couldnt have done it without some help."
Yeah... ain't that Photoshop great.. LOL
Nah, j/k... nice fish... We're coming your way in August... Meet up at the Pizza joint I asked about? |
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Location: Menasha, WI | Nice fish, Mark. A hog that size must've been eatin' some fried chicken to put on the pounds.
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