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| This seems to be hot button, but what does a walleye tourny on the National Level need to do to take off and be like they use to? I remember going to the RCL Championship the year Doc Samson won it, the tent was full or look at the PWT videos they had lots of fans not just family members in the crowd? Its obvious they need fans, any thoughts on how to get more interest to draw fans? Other than bashing each other there just doesn't seem to be the excitement about these derbies, the chatter about the upcoming season is almost nothing other than verbally sparing amongst each other. I suspect more fans would draw the attention of potential sponsors etc..... Or has the economy driven a stake in it? The local tourny's seem to be doing pretty well but the cost is way different than travelling across the country. Try and keep it civil.... |
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| I think its up to the directors to get the excitement back in the game. they dont hype it up all you hear is little burbs that a tourny is happening . they need to to maybe tie it in with other events that may be happening in the area of the tourny plan the date with a festival in the area when people are in the area. Or plan with the city to sponser the event as a city function get the people involved from the area. It would take a lot of work but in the long run it should pay off for both the tourny and the city to draw people in. there are some cities theat could care less and wouldnt support the people I guess it boils down to advertising and promotion. |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | IMO The economy will always play a part in the public patrticpation interest and have some bases for fan turn out. But it goes much deeper and broader now given the worse economy in years and including even more the equipment un-balance between the have's and the have not's.
Every sport I can think of and the costs involved with them have mega jumped into a well-to-do man's realm. And the participants still skimping on, or using older equipment cannot compete very well (if at all) with the race-car type gear the Pro's use to run 80 miles at 75 MPH one way on some river or expansive waterway. Probably why small, local tourneys on rivers and/or smaller waters seem to be doing just fine.
I fished in one of the very first MWT's when it was called the Manufacturers Walleye Council as well as some of the first PWT's. My 18 footer with it's 90 Yamaha could go anywhere and almost as fast as any of the Pro's rides back then. Now, mine and many others fixed incomes have left me and them in the enthusiastic and entry fee dust.
My remidy I'm afraid will not set well with the Pro's. Nor will it impress the BIG RIG Manufacturing sponsors. Lower entry fee's. Smaller/Specific boundry waters at every locaton to fish. Giving/getting more public participation by having a head-to-head Pro/Amature show down competition with almost equal pay-outs. Get the public rooting and showing up for the local underdogs. Just my 2 cents. 
Edited by walleye express 2/16/2013 12:18 PM
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Location: Berlin | MLF will tell the tale for me. If that does not take fishing tournaments to the next level I don't think anything can until the economy changes and prices get to a reasonable level again. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | The high stakes gambler wants a smaller playing field with big rewards. 5K Entry x 50 boats? Sure. Pay money to make money to 20% of the field. 1 in 5 make more than they spent.
The mid-level, 1500 entry fees, just dont pay the bills. There are To many participants vying for a placement that will make them money, not just cover expenses. Thats usually the top 5% or less. 1 in 30 make money
Edited by stacker 2/16/2013 2:56 PM
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Posts: 1991
| That is true on the promotion part when the FLW came to Red Wing there was no mention of it anywhere here, it was almost like they where trying to hide it?
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| K you see the promo work with merc nationals its more of a fun thing with competition between friends like a big get together I think that it makes it more successful . what makes it successful advertising and the big thing is sponsership with merc . and the tie in with walleyeweekend a family event some how get more people envolved and the tournys will fill up I dont think the high price tournys are going to do it not enough draw
Edited by FishnFool 2/16/2013 9:51 PM
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | It's a dying game folks. The days of big crowds, large fields, and municipalities getting excited over a tourney coming to the area are over. I think the big time pro/am events have run their course. The number of anglers wanting to compete at that level has dwindled. Back at their start the PWT and FLW tours made it possible for many to throw their hat in the ring and give it a try. Those who desired to fish at that level have done it. The ones who are left are those who are hard core in their desire to work within the industry. The future success in tournament fishing, in my opinion, will be at the smaller venue levels, team events, and events like Merc Nationals where the event is held where a large populus of fisherman are, and they can bring their families to the event to enjoy the weekend.
Edited by jerry 2/17/2013 9:54 AM
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Location: Lincoln Park, Mi | There needs to be some mid-level series like the FLW League. As of now, you're either fishing for fun and some local tourneys, or the big leagues. No stepping stones. I'll never afford to play in the big leagues and not into small local tourneys, but if a League type even comes around and is reasonably priced, I'd throw my money in the ring. Lots of other people like me sitting on the sidelines with nowhere to play. |
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| jerry well said the directors need to find a different presentation to excite the people fishing and the families and friends we used to have boats follow us all day that is happening but not like it used to I think that the directors need to all get together and figure it out or there will be some more tournys going bye bye they lose their appeal and sponseers are going away then you end up with only affording minimal tournys. |
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| terroreyes - 2/17/2013 10:22 AM There needs to be some mid-level series like the FLW League. As of now, you're either fishing for fun and some local tourneys, or the big leagues. No stepping stones. I'll never afford to play in the big leagues and not into small local tourneys, but if a League type even comes around and is reasonably priced, I'd throw my money in the ring. Lots of other people like me sitting on the sidelines with nowhere to play. +1 |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | As long as the bass side of tournaments are successful, you will be hard pressed to convince me that walleye tournaments can not make it. That being said, they and their fishermen are having hard times too. Yet they are surviving. The FLW and the BASS has survived because of their deep pockets that the walleye tournaments organizers did not have. I recently talked with a friend from the bass tournament world who is now guiding full time. The conversation came full circle when we were both discussing why we no longer were doing tournaments. Our reasons were very similar but his financial reasons were numbing. At the height of his career, Bassmasters raised their entry fees from $14,000 to $55,000. Those numbers are not a misprint, $55,000 in entry fees. He had great sponsors but no one (including himself) had the money to support his dream.
My analogies may be a little over simplistic but I believe that people like myself and Jerry who have done the "big show" like the PWT and FLW will all say the same thing. You and your sponsors need deep pockets. The survivors of the walleye world have worked hard to procure great sponsors that pay for their play. Don't fool yourself, no one survives long without the financial backing. Again, Jerry and I have seen great fishermen come and go that went bankrupt and divorced pursuing their dream. Their lack of success had nothing to do with their fishing ability. Everything I mention so far is the first thing wrong with tournaments. There are more things that organizers must over come.
I am now convinced that the Internet, web sites, Facebook and YouTube are both a blessing and a curse for tournaments. Used properly these things can do a great job of promoting the tournament and fisherman (note: walleye tournaments and their fishermen are still lagging behind at using this vital resource). But the easy and free access to the knowledge associated with our digital world makes tournaments less useful or needed. Their was a time when serious fishermen followed the tournaments to learn about new techniques and products. Today, a simple google search or YouTube search gives you all the information that you need. I do not have to attend a tournament, read its press release or buy the magazine to see what has been developed or tested. It's all free and easily accessible. This is your second problem.
The third issue.
I've been preaching this for several years and few have agreed. I will not go Into great detail because I tire of the argument. But I still believe that the walleye world MUST get into artificial only tournaments. The technology is there and tournaments can help with its advancements. We as a group are too dependents on worms.
The forth reason we fail is because we are boring. Trolling is boring to watch and so is vertical jigging. If you want the deep pockets of corporate sponsorship, you need great TV coverage that is interesting and exciting to watch. We all need to be realistic and accept that we are boring.
Someone mentioned (I believe) that communities are not interested in seeing us coming. This is not true. They love seeing fishing tournaments and their fishermen in their communities. They have seen first hand the income these events generate. But again, many tournament directors have done a terrible job promoting the benefits and because of the economy have asked too much from their chamber of commerce. I'll insert a question here. Why do you think the Governor changed law to allow culling for national tournaments. The answer is strictly for the financial rewards of the communities they service.
As someone mentioned earlier, you need the grass roots tournaments to survive. You need to grow your own. This is the major reason the bass world has high school and college tournaments. This is why the bass federation survives. This is why tournament series like the MWS are important. More needs to be done.
As long as I started with examples form the bass world, I will end with the bass tournament world. They have continually reinvented themselves. Anyone watching some of the new format tournaments will agree. Other than catch, photo, release, the walleye world still lives in the 1960's.
I leave the thread without giving answers but by asking people interested in living the dream to do their homework. Find out how many national touring Pro's have health insurance, a retirement package or savings to pay for a wedding or funeral. The answers will be telling. And I am not talking about those who are lucky to have wives that supply and support this addiction we call tournament fishing |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | While I am in the mood for writing. Here is some advise for those wanting to survive in the tournament world. I maybe wasting my time because I see only 388 hits on this post and assume that maybe 100 have followed this post.
You do not make money tournament fishing. You do not give value to your sponsors by only doing tournaments. And you will not survive in this industry by only fishing tournaments. I have always called the survival ability as "sweat equity". To survive you must be willing and able to do many of the following ( a short list):
Do sports shows
Work boat shows
Have a presence on the Internet by giving advice and showing the benefits of sponsor products
Be able to convey a message and yourself with professionalism
In today's world, produce YouTube like segments
Write well
Have a business plan
Accept rejection from sponsors well
Be honest with yourself and your sponsors
Only seek sponsorship with products you truly believe in
Realize that you will work harder November to March than you will April to October while fishing
Look at the successful tournament fishermen in our industry. Look at the schedules of people like Kieth K, Gary Parsons, Johnnie Candle, KVD, Tommy Skarlis. They are successful by working extremely hard in the "off season" for their sponsors. You must give value to those willing to help pay the bills.
And please, please, please, do not sell your soul to the devil for a hat and T shirt. Another big problem in our industry is that people are giving away their hard work for free to sponsors to try and make it into the ranks. Sponsors know this. And if this practice continues, why should they pay those who do it for a living, a wage they deserve and need to survive. |
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Location: Berlin | You amaze me more and more each post Dennis. Very good read. I wish I had half your talent. |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Very well said Dennis!! While I may disagree with a few of your points 95% of your statements are spot on!!
I've come around on what you're saying in regards for the need for an artificials only tournament/circuit. I used to believe it didn't make that much difference but I do believe that an artificials only event is more attractive to the viewing audience that watch a troll-a-thon with crawlers or watching someone hover over a bobber waiting for a bite.
The item I most agree with is about giving away service for near nothing. If professional fishing as a living is to advance that practice has to go. Each individual needs to evaluate what his/her time is worth to a potential sponsor and work from that number.
Edited by jerry 2/18/2013 2:16 PM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Thanks Rich and Jerry. I value your insights and thinking skills Jerry. I would be very interested in learning the points you do not agree with. Not to argue (getting too old for that ..... Lol) but to learn and grow. Always have an open mind. Feel free to pm me if you prefer at a risk of getting into a debate. In teaching 95% was an A-. Should be happy but seek greater knowledge. Rich and Jerry, I Miss our occasional chats. I went into tournaments for the same reason I play Texas Hold 'me. For the competitiveness and because I was egotistical enough to believe that I was better than all of you with my fishing skills. I realized later in life, I enjoyed the people I met, the places I visited, and the beauty that mother nature always bestowed. Oh yea, and for the groupie chicks........ Lol |
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| Good Stuff Dennis.
IMO, the major promoters of walleye tournaments failed in one way, the same way. They did not, do not, will not promote the anglers. I thought AIM, as an organization owned by the anglers would get that. They did not, and are struggling, and likely are going the way of the PWT and FLW.
Also, there is never enough promotion of the tournaments regionally. Remember the huge crowds at the PWT Championships in Bismark and Pierre? Never saw crowds like that at any FLW championship, or any other championship in other states. Those cities knew who to promote, and get the excitement going. They drew big and rowdy crowds.
Walleye weekend, as mentioned, fuels the interest in the Merc National every year. Big crowds gather on Oven Island to watch the weigh in both days.
Dennis always had the chicks hanging around. Best tourney partner I ever had. |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Ah........the groupie chicks.......I miss them!!
I miss the people the most and cherish the friendships I made from the tournaments. I do not miss having to be on the water, at a show, or somewhere other than where I want to be all the time. The reason I stopped tournaments was to spend more time with family.
Funny you should mention Texas Hold 'em tournaments. That is my current passion too. I've been fortunate enough to win a few local events, place high in others, and qualify for some future events. I plan to play in a WSOP event this year, time permitting. I guess I need to make a trip down there by you sometime soon!!
Back to the subject: does the failure fall with the organizers and tournament directors? I say yes to a point. In order to make any organization successful it takes individual involvement. I wouldn't place the blame entirely on the organizer/director. Some of the blame falls on the fisherman too. If one wants to see these ventures take off and, with it, the sport's popularity improve, then the fisherman need to not only participate in their individual marketing but help promote the sport by working with these proganizers to raise the popularity. I think the reason for the PWT's early success was due to their organization's involvement (In-Fisherman), and they had the right people in the right places. They did a great job of promoting the circuit AND the fisherman. In the end, I think the downfall was the inability to promote the new blood into the sport, which would have expanded the viewship and further promoted the sport.
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What do walleye tourny's need?