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Location: Omro,Wi. | I was reading my Walleye Isider the other day,and there was a article on lead core trolling.It has been probably 5-years since I've used it,primarilly because of the speed dependancy of the stuff.There is a depth chart in one of my trolling books,but was curious if any of you ever did some tests on depth at different speeds?Ever try running it on boards?,or with spinners? or Cranks?....hafe
Edited by Hafe 3/22/2004 6:18 PM
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Location: Wind lake, Wi | It would be great if anyone can give some info on using leadcore. I am going to try it this year and want to know more about it. Thanks for any info. |
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| I have used it a fair amount on Bago with Spinner Rigs.....the old rule of thumb they talk about "1 color gives you 5 foot of depth" is as close as it gets...The Precision Trolling Book is also a decent resource....I have tested the Book data on the humps on the southern part of the lake where the 16 foot humps are located...I run a 50 foot mono leader with a small barrel swivel attaching the 2 lines...ran to the slower range listed in the book and watched the locator show the 16 foot humps then a few seconds later my rod starts thumping from hitting the humps.. I say that the book was pretty close and so was the 1 color 5 foot rule...I have ran 18# and 27# with 3 colors out on off-shore boards, works fine...when the wind blows it out fishes snap weights..like everything else..not always, but enough to show a pattern...I think the article in the Walleye Insider was very good...leadcore on, or around structure like they talked about is a perfect application..except when you get snagged..then I dont like it as well as mono and snap-weights.. |
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Location: Combined Locks, WI | If you goto Keith Kavajecz's site he has done a nice three part article on lead core. I think it is called "The Bottom Line on Lead Core" The web site is called thenextbite.com
Jon Piette NPAA #294 |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I would echoe the thoughts from Warrior Knight. I have used it a fair amount with spinner rigs and agree that you should start out with the old rule of thumb they talk about with "1 color giving you 5 foot of depth". This is only a starting point however because of speed concerns.
I run a 50 foot mono leader with up to 3 colors out on off-shore boards for clear water situations. If the water is dirty you can shorten up the leader or use super lines.
I TOTALLY AGREE THAT when the wind blows it out fishes snap weights. You get a good surging action to your setup that is lost with snap weights and the pendulum senerio. When it's really blowing I go back to snap weights because you can get too much action with leadcore.
In my opinion it shines when you are trying to keep your offering a couple of inches off bottom or you are looking for your baits to get more action from moderate winds. |
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| The comments about it being able to out fish snap weights seems to be solid, my friend uses it on L. baydenoc also and said the same thing.I will set up a couple of rods this summer with it for pulling spinners.I usually use 1 oz.bottom bouncers,or 5/8 oz. keel weights,off the boards.My main concern was using it on the offshore boards,I was a little apprehensive about the line hanging in the water,and reacting on the boards workability. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Hafe:
I can not speak for others buit when I use leadcore it's segmented. I guess no one made this very clear. Segmented means that there's mono or another type line on each side of the leadcore. A comon configuration for your friend would be 50' mono, 3 colors of leadcore and then mono to the rod. This setup is referred to as segmented. Hope this helps, I didn't want anyone to lead you down a road that you were not totally aware of. The only time I use all leadcore is during river trolling situations and then I do not use boards. |
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Location: Wind lake, Wi | I was wondering if a counter reel is needed or could you do with out the counter. And also what about rod length /sensitivity and such. And what size swivel do you recommend? Thanks!! |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | eyefever - 3/23/2004 8:10 PM
I was wondering if a counter reel is needed or could you do without the counter.
I'd say yes you need one if you're trying to reproduce lengths that put your offering inches from the bottom. It's easier to remember exact linecounter read outs than to tell yourself it was blue leadcore to the rod tip and then three feet (estimate). That example would be a river trolling example. If you're segmenting 2 or 3 colors (most common setup for open water trolling) you need to know amount of feet back from when the leadcore ended or total amount out. You could count rod lengths or passes on reel but a counter makes it easier. All that being said, I often use a high quality reel for this application and then add a shakesphere add-on line counter to the setup. It's a very inexpensive alternative and I find it to be very accurate.
And also what about rod length /sensitivity and such.
For open water trolling I generally use Gary Roach trolling rods in the 8'-3" length (if my memory is correct). If you're using segmented leadcore setup and boards the rod does not have to sensitive and should have flexibility. Most people use the same rods that they use for regular open water trolling. For river fishing, I use Graphite rods that are very sensitive. I use no boards so my inside rods are 6'-2'(St. Croix Avid) and pointed almost toward back of boat and outside rods are 9'-3"(ugly stick) and are perpendicular to the boat. This setup allows me to stay close to breaks and is a precise setup for me. I also use Power Pro for leader material so that I can watch the rod tips and know when lure is not working properly.
And what size swivel do you recommend? Thanks!!
I personally do not use swivels, I tie my lines together. I've never had a break off at the knot (knock on wood). Those who use a swivel get the smallest one they can find so that it goes through eyes and reel easily. I have a problem with this setup and I think that over time you're asking for trouble any time you have metal making contact with rod guides.
Hope this helps.
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| A really good way to connect mono to lead core: peel back the sheath exposing about 2" of the lead, break off the lead. With the sheath tie a very loose overhand knot about 3" up the cloth. Slide the mono as far as you can up inside the sheath. Hold it there while you move the knot down to the part of the sheath with the mono inside. When the knot is near the end of the sheath pull the knot tight, with the mono inside, it creates a very small knot that is virtually impossible to pull out. This will work with Fireline leader also, but you must tie an overhand knot in the fireline so that the knot will be up inside the sheath, if you don't do this the fireline can slip out, the knot gives it something to hand onto.
Rob Stratton |
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Location: Wind lake, Wi | Thanks Rob and Dennis. I talked to a guy (Jim Kissinger). And he said exactly what both of you mentioned. I did tie the knot with out the swivel and it worked perfectly. Thanks again, Im ready to hit the water. |
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| always glad to help |
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| I would be affraid that the line would pull out. How much pressure can it take before it pulls out? |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I agree, I've never been real comfortable with that knot. I'm a chicken with it and I use a nailess nail knot (there's another name for it that escapes me at the time) |
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| Will the segmented with 3 colors setup work on Daiwa 27 reels or do you still need bigger reels??
Thanks!
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| Dennis, or Rob,
I'm wondering about this segmented line set up. I understand the theory of it and why you do it with boards, but was wondering...... Do you have a several segmented lines set up when on a trolling board bite? I mean, do you have several with one color, and several with two colors, and then again several with three colors so you can tie on which ever best suits your needs depending on the depth you are targeting? |
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| Dennis, BW, and Jack,
The way Rob describes it works great. I know a guy that has been doing it that way for umpteen years, and has never had a failure.
This same guy also has to setups in his boat when on the trolling bite on LBDN. One with 3 colors for 20'-26', and one with 5(I think) or 6 colors for even deeper water. I think he has 6 rods setup with each.
Edited by Shep 3/25/2004 3:16 PM
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| How does he get 3 colors down 20 to 26', I thought you get about 5' per color so that would be around 15' would'nt it ? |
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Posts: 171
| Try the knot, I've never had it pull out but use what you're comfortable with, after all I don't make money if you use it, lol. I carry spools with 2, 3, 4 and 5 colors with leaders attached, usually 10# XL 40'. If I need to change depeths I simply wind the leader and line onto the spool til I get to to the backer and cut the backer, then retie the new leadcore to the backer using the same knot. Very easy and fast. I'm not comfortable with the way the board tracks putting the leadcore in the snaps. The segmented theory works best when fishing suspended fish when you are trying to gain depth to a crank or using it to run spinners over submerged structure. Remember, lead core is VERY speed dependant. let's say you have a series of humps you want to troll that vary in heigth by 10' and the max depth is 30'. Put on 5 colors of leadcore which will put you down close to the bottom with most spinners (25'-28') if you're running about .9-1.3 mph according to GPS. You start coming up the hump, you gradually build speed to pull the harness "up" in the water column. At 2.0 this set-up would probably come up 6'-8' bringing you close to the top if the humps. Coming down the back side you simply slow down gradually to bring the spiiners down. Time on the water and experience are very important in learning this set-up. It works great when running a breakline also. The presentation is alot more adaptable than using snap weights and the subtle action of the dive and rise often trigger fish. A local out at Dunkirk showed me this set up using ten colors in 70'. We would literally stop the boat letting the line go completely slack, then we would quickly accelerate bring the spinners up off the bottom until the lines were near the top of the column. It amazed me how many depth ranges we could cover affectively with this presentation. Hope this helps.
Rob Stratton |
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| When trolling segmented lead core the amount of line that you let out after the lead core is going to get you to the depths that they said above. Then place your board on and send it out. |
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| Rob,
Thanks for the explanation. I'm not a troller right now, but have been convenced that I need to take it up, and input from folks such as yourself make the learning curve alot easier to work with.
Good luck this season, |
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Posts: 3899
| BW,
I am no expert on leadcore, but I am a pretty good observer. The guy I fished with used the segmented system, and he would use a 30' leader, the three colors, and then send out another 50' or so of monoand then put the board on. That is what got him down there. He also said that he never put leadcore on the boards directly, always uses segmented.
I think the 5' per color comes into play when you have a full spool of leadcore, and are not useing boards. Sorry, I wish I could speak from experience, but I am just starting to get comfortable with the theory of this stuff, and will be trying to refine it myself this year. |
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| Thanks for all the info guy's I did see the knot tied at a boat show but it still would scare me that it could pull out, I did pull it out but the only line they had for demonstration was a 6 lb. mono and they said they use 10 or 12 lb. so maybe the small diameter allowed me to pull it out. I might give it a try with 10 or 12 lb. test mono at home and see if I can pull it out again or cut my hand off trying.  I will say it made a nice little Knot for sliding through the eye's on your rod. |
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| Jack,
I'm sure you could "catch on" pretty quick!
teach me how to jig and I'll teach ya (lol) how to troll.
Rob |
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| Rob,
When ever you want, I'll trade you a day in my boat on Mille Lacs for a day in your boat wherever you want to take me.  |
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Posts: 171
| Jack,
The miles might kill us but I'll take ya up on that! How about Saginaw Bay, a short 45 minute to the water drive from my house! Anytime, let's arrange it. Hust wondering, you going to be near Winnebago prefishing the PWT?
Rob |
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Member
Posts: 73
Location: NW Illinois | I am very far from a lead core expert, but began using it last fall on the Mississippi. Trippled my catch rate over clam beds from jigging or 3-way rigging. I was not using segmented or boards. In the heavily stained water of the Miss., I used a 10' fireline leader of 10# test, tied to the 18# lead core. I trolled very snaggy clam beds and rip rap with shad raps, banging bottom frequently, and lost one crankbait in 5 days of trolling. In the river situation using crankbaits, most often you will want your lure "ticking" bottom occasionally, but not digging into bottom. If you are not feeling the bottom occasionally, let out a few more feet at a time until it hits several times, then crank up a couple of feet and hold. My best fish of the fall came with this presentation, and very good numbers, and those 5 days were learning days, so I am really looking forward to warmer water and giving it another go this year!
Rooster |
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Leadcore Line&Trolling