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| Just wondering how many guys would fish a tournament if the payouts were to be less then 50 percent of the total of the team entery fees? |
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Location: blue mounds,wisc | if the entry was low and the rest was going for a good cause,more like a fun tourny than i have no problem with a low payback |
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| The tourney I was talking about is the Great Lakes Classic Shootout.They are saying a payout of 10,000 for 40 teams and no higher payback until they have over 100 boats.If they have 99 teams at 500.00 a team they will have taken in 49,500 and will payout less then 20,000.Just does not sound right to me.One of the guys on Walleye Centrals Website says, I quite a 40,000 a year jod to do this ,so of course I want to make money off this.That is not the problem, the problem is making 50 percent of the entrys for it.
John P. |
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Location: Otterlake MI | i'm sure the pay out will be adjusted to the number of boats that fish the tourny in my opinon i'll email bo and find out for sure and post back to make sure but if they want the teams to fish the tournys next year they would almost have to adjust for the amount of boats fishing it just my thoughts will post back when i hear from bo
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| That sounds nuts. I just found out from a pal that the MWC only pays back 80 percent. What gives there too.
Don't the PWT and the FLW both payback over 100 percent? I thought I read that the FLW pays 110 percent without the contingency and with them 130 percent or so.
Why are these "big time" tournaments like MWC and the one the post is about not paying the contestants back?
I get the small circuits not doing it, but the MWC, well they are a "pro" circuit with big sponsors and a huge ownership group. |
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Location: Chicago IL. | The only way I would fish a tourney without at least a 80% is for charity or a fund raiser. |
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Location: Berlin | Don't forget the MWC has a championship that has no entry fee and a big time pay out. In order for a circuit to run as well as it does it needs people and they cost money. The also donate to the local clubs to improve the fishery. I also believe the MWC has the highest payout percentage of any team circuit. |
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| Ah, that's right the MWC does have a Championship with no entry fee. Okay.
I still would like to see them someday step up to the plate like the big pro events and payback like FLW or PWT. I mean they are owned by a giant media company with huge distribution of their products.
I just want to see the anglers get a real solid payback.
The MWC is good, but could be better for sure.
This other deal with only 50 percent payback, well that's nuts. Unless it was a charity event. |
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| I think the MWC and other circuits like it serve a very good purpose. They are circuits for guys/gals to get their feet wet and try tournaments. More like stepping stone to move up to the PWT or FLW. The big circuits do pay back over 100%, but the Pros pay a hefty entry fee also. The cost of fishing the big circuits is immense. The smaller cirtcuits like the MWC, MWT, and so on are great testing grounds for people who want to see if they want to step to the big shows. They are also perfect for the guy/gal that want to fish one or two tournaments a year. I say kudos to those circuits for filling that niche well.
Pogey. |
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Location: Berlin | The only other thing I will add is that I do not believe the PWT pays out even close to 100% in cash. They do include prizes which might take it close to 100%. Circuits like these have huge operating costs and in my opinion it is next to impossible to get a 100% payout. As far as the FLW, look at the problems that circuit is having. They are having a real hard time filling up this year. I guess you can't have the best of both worlds unless you are a bass fisherman but I wouldn't wish that on anyone. |
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| I had to check on the PWT payouts. With the cash payouts, they pay back 111% per the pro purse. 125% payback with the boat. I would also assume they have huge costs and it must be a struggle to get the payouts up over 100%.
pogey. |
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| John P It sounds like you have an axe to grind. I personally know the people starting this circuit and you are incorrect publishing your assumptions on payback. In fact maybe you should contact Mr. Gary Bowman personally and get your facts straight before opening mouth and inserting whole tackle box. I know Gary would not cheat anyone for a dollar, however tournaments are run to make money. Knowone is going to run tournaments out of the goodness of their heart. You might want to check the legality of your little survey and statements against someone because this just might cost you. I run 3 corporations and deal with kindergarden mentality daily. I'll bet your boss doesn't pay you enough at work either. I'll bet the company wouldn't run without you? Good luck with your survey. It won't do much good without the correct facts. |
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| No I wouldn't fish a non-charity event with a poor payback, but on the other hand I have not seen a published %payback on this circuit anywhere. I think you are making some huge assumptive leaps with what you are saying here. The way they are going about announcing this circuit is a bit strange and seems unorganized to me. Maybe someday they'll publish an official payback amount, but until then we'll just have to wait before making stuff up John P. |
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Location: Milw, WI | The MWC is the Team big time.
Been here longer than the rest, and have stood through the test of time.
You do not think so, just a proving ground......
Bring it.
Show us.
Just find a partner you can stand living with for the season, has his half of expenses
and can get off work for the pre-fishing.
Costs are just as much in gas, boat and lodging.
Less sponser money, to the teams, means most pay out of pocket.
Some team have 0 sponser dollars coming to help them out.
Entry fees may be less, but the rest of the stuff costs the same........money.
MWC also has some real cool things going on , like the FREE Pro-Am at the Championship each each.
Helping the local fishery, donation to clubs, Ill DNR sauger/ walleye spawn collection.
Heck have you seen the Barto landing.
Would I like to see the Payout get bigger yes, for shure.
Not first place but to pay down more places.
But not done with higher entry fees.
Do the people running the show need pay checks yes they do.
The only way to get the pay backs up higher is more sponser money for prizes.
More big sponsor names, more money.
But these companies want return on the investmest they are making.
I guess the only thing the fishing public could do to help is make it more visiable.
Tell store managers that they came to buy there product because the seen it at a MWC event.
Maybe a letter writting program to the sponsors, just to show them the people are paying attention, would help.
Heck just come to the weighins, there a good time anyway.
Catching a check in the MWC maybe the hardest thing you will ever try to do.
Stepping off the soap bax now..............
Back to the post....
Most only look at the money they could win, not the bottom line. |
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Location: Berlin | Thanks Pogey, I did not realize they were that high.
Amen Richfish! |
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| Let's get this settled right away folks.
The Great Lakes Walleye Classic is not going to rip anyone off. After three years of talking to people who were interested in this type of circuit, we heard time and time again that people HATED tournaments that promised $XXX (based on a 100 boat field). When only 42 boats registered, the payout had to be refigured and in one case, the last place paid got $17 and change. We didn't want to do this. So we decided on a few top places and would develop the payout even more as the entries increased.
We have sponsors helping with the setups and even a gracious $1,000 daily Big Fish cash award. We are greatful for the sponsors in helping with all the major purchases to set up this tournament.
We promise the payout as presented and we also promise that as more money from registrations and sponsors became available, it will be in the payout.
The aforemention 'guy' out there who gave up his job is me. A woman who's husband of 31 years supports her in her love of the sport of fishing. I spend many hours every day working on this tournament for free. I don't need the money, honey, if I am about to make some father-and son, brother-brother, friend-friend fishing team a nice pay weekend. It is a pleasure to do it. Not one penny am I making. My payment is getting great pleasure in helping get this off the ground.
I'm not fishing for a living.... believe me. If I could find that job, I'd take it in a minute.
Instead, I want to get this off the ground.
So, we ask everyone....
Shall we take that guaranteed $10,000 first prize and have a smaller payout across the board?
Do we post a payout based on 100 boats and then if there are fewer than that number, sit and recalculate everything? And make a lot of people angry?
Or will you actually believe there is a tournament group out there seriously interested in developing a decent paying tournament with the angler in mind?
John.... I am sorry our answers to you on Walleye Central were not adequate. And I wish you had more faith in us than you do. And I hope my sincere response to you on this chatroom will put an end to your concerns.
Please come fish with us and bring your best fishing pal. Maybe we will be handing YOU that big paycheck
Anyone with specific questions or concerns is welcome to contact Gary Bowman, Mark Schultz or me, Doni-Mae B. Rauch. I can be reached at [email protected].
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Location: sheboygan,wisconsin | The mwc is the top of the food chain in team walleye fishing.220 team fields in the central, with
140 early birds,and the rest of field filled with great local talent at each site. It is no easy task to consistanly do well or is it cheap at 600.00 a tourament,plus gas,food,lodging.There are no other team touraments that even come close. |
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| What is the payback percentage? It seems to me that it is a the standard way to judge the strength of the payback of entry fees to anglers, and would put an end to the debate entirely.
Also, let it be known that there are quite a few circuits out there with great payback percentages and well run with integrity. To suggest there aren't will only serve to alienate the anglers who currently fish those tournaments.
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| It is truly not our intention to alienate anyone. And we hope we don't. We know we have a good financial base for a new circuit and we will pay more... give us 50 entries by next weekend and watch the payout rise...... |
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| TheWayOutdoors - 3/31/2005 3:12 PM
It is truly not our intention to alienate anyone. And we hope we don't. We know we have a good financial base for a new circuit and we will pay more... give us 50 entries by next weekend and watch the payout rise......
This isn't rocket science what people are asking for. SHOW US WHAT THE PAYOUT WILL BE FOR X number of teams - how many teams will you pay and how much based on 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 teams, etc? Spend a half hour with an excel spreadsheet and make this information public and then you may very well see the entries rise.
You are only hurting yourself by not providing this information up front. I've talked to many teams that are interested in the GLWC but don't know ANYONE that will enter without this information being disclosed in advance.
I'm looking forward to competing in the GLWC and hope to see this succeed.
Steve Carlson - FreeByrd
[email protected]
330 283 2155 cell phone |
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Posts: 171
| Doni-Mae,
There is only one way to answer an ignorant question....silence.
Given the choices of a Michigan based team walleye circuit, Bo and his crew are right on for what a large portion of us want, WORTHWHILE payouts. WWA: low entry fee, win and you might make your expenses back. MWT: NOW you're talking low payouts. Probably the only competition is the GNWC, and that's not a biggie either.
Here's a chance to fish for something BIG. The payouts will be there or the circuit will not succeed, these people are not dummies. I wish the GLWC crew all the best, see you on the Bay and in Ohio, and the full circuit next year.
Rob |
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| I have been watching the threads both here and the other site. All most really want to know is the payout percentage. The people running this tournament have responded with info about everything BUT that. And now someone is talking legal issues because people have opinions? I guess I thought that was what these boards were for. The payout could easily be figured and posted with a simple computer program. What worries me is all the changes that have taken place since the announcement of the new tournament series that has been worked on for 2 (?) now 3 years. One would think that if that amount of time had been spent, there wouldn't be so many changes. First on their own site they were paying 10 places, now they are paying 5 based on 40 boats. Then she posts that she wants 50 entries, so the payout will change again! Which, according to their post, is what they complained about other tournaments doing. And there are still conflicting dates on when the late fees are added and when registration is due. It's my belief from what I have read, that when anglers have to pay more to fish a tournament, they expect (and rightfully so) to have a better payout. And to have everything ironed out before announcing it. Too much confusion, disorganization, and skirting the issues for me! |
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| Endless,
Great, guess we won't have to armwrestle for a spot, huh? |
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| OK Rob let's make it easy for you
They are paying [fill in blank]% of the entries back to [fill in blank]% of the field.
Two lousy numbers would clear up the entire thing. Why do you have a problem with that? |
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| First off. I am not grinding any axe at all. I am just trying to get some solid info on this tourney.I totally agree that this is a great concept for Great Lake tournaments.I am just trying to get solid info on the way payouts are going to work based on different amount of teams.
I am sorry if I offended anyone by asking a simple question.
I am using info on payouts based on what is posted on thier website.The numbers they have posted is based on 40 teams and then they go on to say the payouts will increase with 100 teams.I was just wondering why the amounts would not be increased with 50,60, 70 and so on teams and not only if there were 100 teams.
I am sure that the people who are getting this together are good people as I have not meet many bad fishermen in the 40 plus years I have been fishing.
I hope all of this works out in the best for everyone and once again I am very very SORRY if I insulted anyone in any way ,shape, or form.
John P. |
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| Me and quite a few others from the looks of the poll! Do you get your entry back in the payout if there is only a 20 boat field? |
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| No, I guess you won't have to wrestle me and quite a few others from the looks of the poll! Do you get your entry back in the payout if there is only a 20 boat field? |
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| I think this is what everyone is talking about. For our club tournaments for this year we will be paying out to 25% of the field. If we have less than 31 boats in a division we will pay back 80% of the entry fees. At 32 boats we pay out 85% and at a full field of 40 boats in a division we pay back 90% of the entry fees received. That is all people are asking for and as Steve said a simple Excel spreadsheet can be used to figure out exact dollar amounts. I find it hard to belive that anyone would enter into a venture like this and not do all this before hand so that they could make sure they were going to make something off of it as they should make a profit for their work. I just don't understand what is so hard about sharing that info with the anglers?
Good luck with this.
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| I think if most of you look at tournament paybacks on the entry fees, the general rule of thumb is 80% for almost every circuit out here. Most of them pay 25% of the filed. That percentage number does not change no matter what the field size is. If 120 boats fish 80% of the entry fees are paid back. If 30 boats fish 80% of the entry fees are back.
I am not sure if you can fill in the exact number of who much will get paid or how deep it will get paid til you have the exact number of boats. I looked and the only two walleye circuits that payback over 100% on the pro entry fees is the PWT and FLW. These are also the only ones that pay deeper than 25% of the field. Same way in the bass world only two, BassMasters and FLW.
I think you guys are searching to hard into an event that is suppose to be fun and offer the opportunity to fish tournaments to all fisherman. Not many can play with the big boys of the big circuits. But we can play in the smaller events and the step ladder events like the MWC.
My .02 worth.
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| In all the years that I have fished competitively, I never thought about how many places that anyone paid down, I always fished to WIN. My biggest complaint was " if we have this many boats, we will pay this amount" and if they didn't field as many boats as was projected, they changed the whole ball game, and the pay-outs were not even close to what was projected. That's why I have tried to do it the honest way. But, it seems, that you want to accept mediocrity, and would like to know the least amount that you can win. I spent two summers talking to anglers from various circuits, from the high end of the spectrum, to the week-end warriors. Most agreed that this type of tournament was needed in our region. This circuit is not going to be for the faint of heart. It's going to be competitive. There are alot of you guys and gals that invest alot of money into your equipment and tackle, that have no way of actually re-couping some of your investment, unless you can afford to go to the BIG TIME. This circuit is going to be different than alot of the circuits that are out there that you invest your money but you fish for one day. Look at the entry fees and the pay-outs for one day events. The one day events are great but again, this is a different concept. You're all worried that someone is making too much money or that someone is going to get shafted. I have taken this new concept to the max. We have 10 accomplished tournament people to make your angling expereince with us go as smooth as possible. The Ohio event is going to be taped for TV. This all costs money. As you all know, it takes a certain amount of investment to even try to get a circuit like this off the ground. My partner, Mark Schultz, and i have made this investment. All we are asking in return, is for you to give us a chance and let us build this circuit. For you out there that can't afford our entry fees, don't bother to post because it will be irrelevant, to you that are interested in a new tournament concept, we will pay back 80% to 15% of the field. This means we will still guarantee your $10,000 for Ist, and if we have 40 teams, we will pay down 6 places, if 50 teams, we will pay 7, and so on. If any of you would like to talk to me, please call me @ (734) 891-1001 I'm sorry to be so long winded, but I have spent alot of time and money to get this off the ground, and I believe what I am doing is going to make a significant change in the way walleye tournaments are ran. Thank you for hearing me out, Bo
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| Good Deal.Can`t wait to beat that Rob S guy here on Erie.Bring it on BOYS and let the OLD MAN show you how it is done |
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Member
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Location: Westland, MI. | Hey Old Man Walleye, Come on and fish our Saginaw Bay Shoot-out, also. Give Rob a chance. Cheers, Bo |
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Location: Rhinelander | 80% is fair, and is the overall average I've seen over the years. Good fortune with the new circuit, Gary. |
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Location: Westland, MI. | Steve, Thanks for the vote of confidence. Come on over and fish one with us. |
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Location: Rhinelander | May just do that, Bo!! Got the 250 Verado and the 9.9 Pro Kicker ordered for the new Tuffy 2060, which is a completely redesigned interior on the 1990 model time tested high performance Tuffy hull. Fiberdome redesigned that hull to 20" 6" a couple years back, and did one heck of a face lift this year on the interior and weight distribution. Should be a great rig for over there, maybe I can convince Zach to take a ride with me and see if we can't catch a walleye or two. |
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Location: Westland, MI. | Hey Steve, We'd love to have you and Zach join us. We are going to have a very competitive field. You should enjoy it. But if not in Saginaw, make it a point for Lake Erie in October. The piggies are in then and would really make some nice press. Your in Fishing, Bo |
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| Old Man walleye,
I think maybe a little side action may be in order.. Maybe $100 per team if we fish both?
I love to gamble.
Rob S. |
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Tournaments with less then a 50 percent payback