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Location: Manitowoc, WI | My partner's and I had a good discussion Saturday night after day one of the MWC in regards to gas prices and tournament fishing. For the most part, we all felt that gas prices and other expenses would be the end of smaller tourney circuits, as the rewards would not be worth the amount of money it takes to run our rigs and tow them around. Just wondering what everyone else feels about this? As an example, I prefished Thursday and Friday on the Bay, pulling my boat to Cedar River's launch and driving by boat from Marinette to Big Bay both days. My gas bill came in at around $750 for the weekend for my truck (diesel) and boat......:( | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Gasoline prices are changing how I do many things, including my day time job. Expenses as high as $750 for fuel in prefish and the event bring total expenses for a team to at least $1000 for fuel, lodging, and food. If an event pays out $1200 for first, that could be a problem. Hopefully, fuel prices will come back down some this fall. | |
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| Myself and teamates have had similar discussions!! Recently placed 9th in the Flw league event and took home a check for $525 w/ranger bonus. Prefished for 3 days and with hotels, meals, gas and last minute tackle, I don't think I broke even with a top ten finish!! We are done!!!! | |
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Location: Chicago IL. | Fishing the smaller tourneys is getting harder and harder. If your going to do them to MAKE money,your in the wrong business. If you going to fish them to have fun and cash a check to HELP pay your expenses, you in the right game. The gas is your biggest ouch for sure. By the time you add up all you out of pocket money,you will most likely be in the hole. But I will continue to fish them, to go out and have fun,and hope to put it together to cash a check. When it stops being fun, I will be done. | |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | I agree John. Part of it is the enjoyment. I still enjoy the fishing and the competiton. Just not sure which way I will go with this for next year. Take Lake Cumberland for example: $1,300 in fuel for the trip, around $3,300 in expenses total. It's getting out of hand. | |
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Location: Kaukauna WI | Jerry,
I think you will see a more effort to have events closer to populations that fish them on National Level that is. For even thou directors of all circuits are working on new waters they also realize this is going to curtail participation to a point for feasibility of ones that are going to fish them and will look at the where and how local anglers can increase the ranks for when they have lose of normal ones that would traveled but are caught in the pitch of cost and rising expenses.
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| Great Topic!
I have to agree with Steve. The gas prices have totally changed the way many of us do business. When it comes to tournament fishing it will certainly have an impact. I imagine you will see more anglers targeting close to home waters where they don't feel the need for several days of pre-fish. You'll also see some anglers looking for spots close to the launch to conserve gas. Instead of going for the win they'll play it conservative to try and break even. That's unfortunate.
I know of some PWT pros who have been in Mobridge since last weekend. I can't imagine the money they are dumping on fuel. Two weeks of pre-fish! You'd need to finish in the Top 20 just to make your gas money. LOL
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio | |
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Location: Rockford MN | After the GB event I looked at the amount of money I spent on fuel, WOW! This whole thing is out of hand, It's not that fun anymore! Just in what I have spent in fuel this year for fishing, I could have taken my whole family to some Island for 2 weeks. Boats and Motors are out of hand and so is the fuel! Closer to home events are the only things I will do from now on! Cherry picking events is the only way to fish tournies anymore. I bet there are a few Credit Card Companies that are loving life! lol
On a good note; I stayed over in Algoma for a few days and spent very little on fuel fishing for Salmon! NOW THATS FUN! I can't wait to get back over there in Aug. | |
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| The GNWC has already announced they are taking a proactive step to get ahead of this.
I suspect other circuits will follow.
http://www.up-north.net/ubb/Forum94/HTML/000586.html | |
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Location: Rockford MN | Hummm
Being that it is a business, I think its more about the cost they are feeling than the angler. The whole tournament thing is more and more about the tours than the anglers anymore! Why do you think sponsors are willing to help fund curcuits? There is something in it for them, same goes for the curcuits themselfs. PEOPLE would not do this unless they MAKE something or get something only smart business! | |
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Location: Loves Park, IL now Mt. View Ar. | I cut way back this year...No flw events...just the MWC central and Detroit. That still putt a big hole in my pocket book. I love to fish competitaly and meet old and new friends. It's hard to justify the expence and the pay out in some of the touny's out there. Almost cashed a check at Green Bay that would of helped. At lest my house got some TLC this summer, after the years of being gone so much throught out the summer.
Steve Anderson | |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Previously, I have never let gas expenses influence my tourney fishing. My attitude has been that gas is part of the expense of fishing tourneys and finding fish; end of story. If I am going into a tourney, with all its expenses, I was not going to limit myself based upon the cost of gas - I was trying to find fish within bounds. AFTER running Green Bay so hard last week, I must admit I am giving some thought to re-thinking strategies based upon the cost of gas and OPTI oil. We will see. WM | |
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| I cut back this year, but mostly because of the new house, and lawn that need my attention. But I don't think I would have used the price of fuel alone as a determinning factor whether to fish a tourney or not. As my truck and boat are both paid for, I don't feel the pinch of the gas bill quite as much as I would if I was making payments on both! Jerry, that is some serious fuel expense for that tourney!
I had this discussion with a friend last Friday before the MWC. His feeling is that this is a business. He needs to do whatever it takes to be successful, so if that means a 65 mile run to get his fish, so be it. It helps that he's part of a good team, and they split up the prefishing, and work well together.
But, like any other sport, sponsorship in fishing will undergo some changes in the not too distant future. Intead of boat discounts, and free tackle/product, I believe more up front money will be the only way to survive on these tours. And I'm talking serious coinage, in the 10's of thousands of dollars and more. And this will result in more and more nonfishing related sponsorships coming into the sport. Now, this means we'll have to compete with all the other sports and teams with their hands out, but I just don't think there is enough fishingf related dollars to go around. Creative marketing will be key, and maybe even lead to agents/sports marketing opprotunites for the top names.
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| My point of view is a little different, but the question of does gas prices affect your fishing plans, the answer is still yes.
I've not really been a tournament angler up to now, but I may be headed that way because of gas prices - let me explain.
This year I have been prefishing with friends at FLW and PWT events. Since I end up prefishing with a pro, I don't bring my boat. Now I am getting 30 mpg instead of 11 to get there. I have a hard time getting the pro's I prefish with to allow me to pay for @ 1/2 the daily gas bill. They let me contribute, but not a full half. I'll admit that my smaller motor would use about 1/2 of what the larger pro boat motors use, so 1/2 of theirs would be about my same gas usage.
I really considered renting a slip for a month this year, but did not. A slip for my boat, for a month - $150.00. If I planned on focusing my fishing during a month, and doing my other honey do's before and after that month, again I would save by driving a high mpg car to the slip on weekends. Another option that is starting to get attractive is to just get rid of the boat, pay the entry fee to fish as a co-angler. If I fished 3 tournaments as co, with prefishing week, that would be 30 days on the water. I'm not sure I get 30 full days on the water with my own boat?? So, I may start participating in tournaments because of gas prices.
One thing for sure - I'm not starting any more hobbies that take gas to participate. I can't afford it. Example - I think I'll do woodworking instead of snowmobiling - if I had to chose between the 2 as 'new' hobbies. Unfortunately, I'm already hooked on fishun - pun intended.  | |
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| Jerry you hit it right on the head. I pre-fished for three days prior to the tournament. Total gas and oil bill came to approximately $475. That doesn't include entry fee, license, bait, food, lodging, etc... We finished 13th which paid out $1,000. I've been competing in tournaments for 20+ years and if I didn't truly love the competition and fishing in general, I would have an even more difficult time justifying the costs. Basically my partner and I did not cover our expenses even with a 13th place finish. Makes you wonder a bit. I guess it's just like any other hobby, you justify it based on the satisfaction you get from it. Yes I will be back to kick your butt in 2006. | |
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| Jerry,
I thought I was the only one holding back this year because of this issue. I have made far fewer trips this year than last. I don't know how a working guy with payments and a mortgage can afford tourneys with the cost of equipment fuel and lodging. I agree with the premise that this will have an strong effect on tourney entries. I do not see fuel prices dropping substantially unless a strong recession sets in, and we do not want that scenario.
Granted, we all get use to higher prices. We all remember when the $2.00 level was reached and everyone thought the economy would collapse. Instead, everything seems to be humming along just fine. Running over the water at somewhere between 50 cents and a buck per mile does burn a bit of a hole in the wallet
Take care,
Jim O | |
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| Shep made an interesting point about big money up front and agents. Many of the top BASS anglers already work with big agencies like Octagon Sports Marketing. This company represents many traditional sports athletes too. The odd thing here is that even on the bass side of things the money is tight.
While discussing the sponsorship issue with one of the most sponsored anglers I know fishing the Bassmaster Tour he said only about 20 or maybe 30 anglers are making a solid living via sponsors. Most of the anglers who have decent sponsorships are just breaking even and need to make a few bucks from winnings. As we all know that is not a very realistic road to follow.
Hopefully sponsors will start seeing the tremendous value that is provided them by the fishing industry in general. The fishing "audience" far surpasses that of professional tennis or golf and yet is still thought of as a backwoods endeavor by many sponsors.
Times are changing slowly, but with gas prices as they are expect many things to increase in cost in addition to the zillion bucks we have to pump into the tanks of our Rangers, Tuffys, Lunds, Crestliners, Skeeters, Tritons etc.
Maybe Jerry can get the guys at the nuke plant to have us in hydrogen powered Mercs by next year! LOL
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio | |
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| Good topic, Jerry. The problem is magnified out in the wild west.
IMHO... The first thing we will see is fewer guys fishing an entire circuit. Example...our Montana Circuit...I can rack up a 1000 mile round trip...just going to and from a Ft. Peck tounament based out of Glasgow, MT.
Some guys living in Montana will have 1400 mile round trip just to get to and from a tourney on Ft. Peck.... Of course, the miles have not changed and fishermen have been making runs like this...but we were paying half as much for a gallon of fuel as we are now.
I think tournaments will get back to where they were 15-20 years ago....folks fishing a tourney here and there, but only a couple a year...and mostly the ones closest to their home.
The Pro Circuits will truly necessitate a "beginning Pro" to have a heck of a bankroll to participate...Uffdah!
It is going to make us kind of revert back to the way things were in the 70s in terms of our travelling habits.
Bummer... | |
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| Thought the gas prices might start to make a difference soon. Making an impact in lots os areas. Long ago I figured the cost of competative fishing vs what I was making as a guide made it a very easy decision to get paid 90% of the time I fished (1 out of 10 days I'd be fishing with friends) then hope to break even or make some money with a top 3 finish. SO many good anglers out there and luck as a factor made it pretty simple for me. Although a smaller pool of anglers in the smaller tournaments could make for a lot of competition hungry anglers fishing the amature side of the bigger tournaments.
Dave, not sure I agree with >The fishing "audience" far surpasses that of professional tennis or golf and yet is still thought of as a backwoods endeavor by many sponsors.< Not sure about tennis but the galleries at a professional golf event are growing. How much money does a gallery of 30,000 people leave on a course over a entire day vs a gallery of ??? leave at a PWT event during a 4 hour weigh-in. How about the dollars spent during the entire evnt by spectators. From what I could find fishing numbers are dropping a bit at around 34 million participants and golf numbers are going up and are near 30 million right now. AND, as far as backwoods endeavor, well it IS to a point. The "average" fisherman WANTS backwoods endeavors and the average golfer wants to get better and play more golf. As they get better they watch more golf or are more interested in going to see an event. Also, the sheer magnatude of the difficulty of earning the right to PLAY on the top level in golf FAR surpasses what it takes to fish the RCL or PWT. That's why bowling has always had trouble, percieved as too easy to do. Not a spit ball and NOT trying to diminish the effort and skill it takes to fish on that level, just trying to see where you were going. I bet Keith Kavajecz wished fishing DID pay 10% as good as golf. The #1 golfer in the world makes 25 million just on endorsements and a event champion's check is a little bit larger too.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 7/22/2005 3:04 PM
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Location: Rockford MN | I 100% agree! I the real world (outside our little walleye world) No one knows who we are! Tours have done very little to nothing to promote there anglers, thus far the anglers have worked hard to promote themselfs to get a head. Bass on the other hand figured this out long before the walleye world.
Sponsors pay way more to the Bass guys because they are promoted MUCH better by there tours, mags, and tackle and boat man... . While tours are popping up all over the place, avg. angler bases are shrinking. Sales continue to grow for alot of manufactures and prices are rising at alarming rates, but there overall base is getting smaller. Golf WILL price itself out as well, $60 greens fees and the cost of clubs is going to jump even more til folks can't afford to play.
Every year these small curcuits seem to be growing, but how long are they going to grow when the costs to play are rising? The big boys that have been there the longest and are the most established are getting the money and most are hanging on (not making a killing). I the real world most people could careless who we are and what we do! | |
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Location: Shabbona | In tournaments past me an my partner put in 200 bucks apiece in a kitty.. That covered boat fuel truck fuel and a couple breakfast in there also.. At GB we had to kick in 500 apiece to save face with fuel..................When the trip was over there was 3 bucks left.....
But I gotta tell Ya I'll be back next Year..............Hopefully no Squirrel finds it's way to My live well.................. | |
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| Joel,
Speaking about the "audience" I'm refering to the numbers of folks who participate in the sports. The numbers I've seen from various organizations put the total number of sport anglers in this country somehwere between 44 and 50 million. Those figures more than double the combined totals of those who regularly participate in golf and tennis combined.
The reference to backwoods was not to be taken as that of refering to literal backwoods experience somewhere deep in the northwoods, but to the impression many potential nonendemic sponsors view fishing as something only rubes and hillbillies do.
It most certainly is not that, although a trip to the Quetico in the backwoods is often desired by those who don't fish for a living. Actually a trip to the Quetico sounds good to me right now. LOL
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio
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Location: Rockford MN | Those are close to the numbers I remember seeing also, however the ratings for a golf event on TV are tough to beat. I think the bass guys have huge advantage right now, they can junp around in there boats in some back waters and play fish. We have light line and are much more boring reeling in a fish with 200' of line out. Flippin a worm in cover in 2' of water and pulling them out with a pool cue and 80lb superbraid is much more fun for people to watch (I guess).
Also how many times can we show people who to hook up a board to line and let it out? People want to see hooksets and fish flying into the boat! The crazier the guy in the boat, the more people talking about it! I wonder what they can come up with next to help grow the sport? Seems to me that the Bass tours are 10 steps ahead of the walleye tours at all times. I find it hard to grow the sport with little interest! | |
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| Gordy,
I agree completely about the television end. In reality, the TV world has only been covering tournament fishing in the mainstream since ESPN started covering the FLW Bass Tour in the '90's and then when ESPN purchased BASS in 2001 they now cover the Bassmaster events. Tennis and golf have been on air since, I think, the 1950's.
All things considered we have several years to go before we see the ratings jump. Think about fishing, we all do it. How many folks actually go and golf at St. Andrews or swing a racket at Wimbledon? All of us can fish the Championship waters in Houghton or on the Mississippi. We tend to be out participating in our sport when these tournament fishing shows are on television.
Back to gas prices though. Mark Martin was on our show last night and he said his average per tournament cost has risen to around $3,000 per event. He has very good financial sponsors and it's still a massive financial burden. Now imagine what the bass guys pay! Their tournaments cost an extra $1,000 or more per event. Next year the Bassmaster Tour pros have 11 events! That's over $40,000 to run the entire tour!
Jerry really needs to get his nuke plant guys to develop an atomic outboard for Mercury to cut our gas bills. LOL
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio
Edited by Dave Landahl 7/22/2005 7:35 PM
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Location: Rockford MN | Points well taken!
Do we have any guys out there can sponsor us poor fishermen on the gas end??? lol It's only about $1000 a week! | |
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| Dave, your numbers are for ALL types of fishing, does that mean the golf numbers should include frisbee golf?  I've got the 2001 figures right in front of me, just shy of 28 million FRESHWATER anglers and have info that the number of golfers went from 19.9 million in 1986 to 25 million in 1996, and numbers are STILL rising for golf. When we are talking walleye tournaments, the audience isn't even the 28 million because MOST of those freshwater anglers fish for bass. Sorry Dave, your numbers don't make the grade. | |
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Location: Sioux Falls, South Dakota | This is a great subject.... Now if we could only come up with some solutions  T-Mac makes a good point with anglers not fishing entire circuits and picking a few to fish for vacations. I've been fishing tourneys for quite awhile now and I began noticing some time ago there where very few younger anglers coming into the tourney theatre of fishing. Let's face it it's just to expensive for them to get started.
1. used tourney boat $30,000
2. Reliable tow vehicle $15,000
3. Tourney quality and quantity fishing equipment $10,000
4. Entry fees for an entire regional cicuit $ 1,000
5. Lodging and fuel for the circuit(4 days prefish) $ 3,000
Now these numbers should not be taken as written in stone but are an guestimation of average cost for an angler to be competitive in a tourney circuit.
This expense added to the growing cost for any angler to live and commute can kill any budget.
There are a few who can afford it regarless of the cost's, but for the up and coming tourney angler's the immediate future is looking very expensive. Completely out of reach for entirely to many.
How can it get less expensive for these up and coming tourney anglers????
WALLEYE LEAGUES!!!!!!
Walleye Leagues at a local lakes are gaining popularity. They can prefish without going far and they still have the competitive edge that tourney anglers love. Totally minimizing expences and still getting a tourney fix, and getting it every week, just like a bowling league. You don't need a high dollar boat either just something that moves and floats, after all this is a well known local lake.
The fishing industry would be well served to pay close attention to the League Tourney crowd. Cabelas has, and I applaud their efforts.
We all know that without new blood the Walleye Tourneys will become stories of the "Good Old Days"
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Jerry,
A great thread with great responses.
Obviously many of us are concerned about the cost of doing something that we love.
I do not feel that gas prices and other expenses will be the end of smaller tourney circuits. On the contrary, I think that many who need the tourney fix will stick with the local tournaments and forgo the long travel of regional competition.
I started the season saying that gas prices would not effect how I prefish. That has not happened. I find myself doing things differently because of the high cost of traveling in the boat. I have started doing more of the following:
1.Trailering the boat from landing to landing on the Great Lakes versus just motoring around. The old suburban still gets 6-7 times the gas mileage as the boat.
2.I have backed up the throttle why prefishing. I used to have only two speeds, idle and “balls to the walls”. Now I back off and TRY to maintain about 3800 rpms while traveling from spot top spot.
3.I used to travel up to an area the weekend before to prefish. I no longer do this, it’s too expensive. I show up 1,2 or 3 days prior to the tournament now. The amount of time I devote to prefishing is determined by the winning purse and my knowledge of the fishery.
4.I have tried to cut expensive other ways because of gas prices. I bring more food from home, I stay in cheaper motels and I no longer go as fast on the freeway.
5.I used to be more lenient with sharing expenses with my partners. I never included costs like oil for the engine ($25 bucks a gallon at marina’s now) when figuring out our total costs. Unfortunately those days are done. I just can not afford to be as generous.
Rumor has it that boat companies like Ranger are making the boat ratings higher for engines next year. The 621 will be rated for 300 hp and the 620 at 250. I think that this is a big mistake and they are not taking the cost of competition into consideration. They are however taking the male hormones into the thought process. We all seem to want newer and faster!
The past few years I have been doing around 12 tournaments a season plus championships. I will not be able to continue this practice. I will be making some very tough choices this winter. This saddens me because I have made some really great friends by doing different tournament series and I’ll miss the camaraderie.
My final thought is a suggestion to the tournament directors. Work closer together when developing your schedules. You are hurting yourselves by not communicating or caring what others are doing. I know some try to work it out but others do not take schedules into consideration. This hurts all of us. I would actually like to see tournaments on the same body of water on consecutive days. I did this on ‘bago” this year and it was great. I did the FLW on Saturday and then the GNWC on Sunday. My actual costs were less because I was already there. I’d be curious how many other participants did the same thing and if it helped the sign-ups.
Anyone know if a Volkswagen Jetta diesel will pull a Lund 1900 Pro-V?
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| Joel,
Check out this link from the National Sporting Goods Association (NSGA). This is from a 2004 survey:
http://www.nsga.org/public/pages/index.cfm?pageid=150
They give you numbers on the participation in all forms of recreational sports and show that fishing has more participants than golf and tennis combined.
The ASA, American Sport Fishing Association puts the total numbers of fishing participants at 44 million. Those numbers are based off license sales and don't, at least I believe they don't, include those older and younger who don't need to purchase a license.
My point was regarding sport fishing not just tournament walleye angling. Frisbee golf is not the same as club and ball golf, but fishing is fishing, of course the techniques are different, but the goal is to catch fish.
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio
Edited by Dave Landahl 7/23/2005 11:10 AM
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Lots of great replies here and many things that I've considered in the past. As it has been said, I too made up my mind that I wouldn't let gas prices influence me when it came to tournaments. "Going for the win" is what it's all about and doing whatever is possible within the rules of the tournament is how I see it. But I am starting to rethink my strategy, which is what prompted the initial conversation among my friends and I.
My hope: a major circuit will be created by one of the major fuel companies like Citgo or Shell, along with some other big name sponsors like Busch or WalMart and make an elite major circuit similar to the BASS Elite 50. The angler's who benefit from this will be those who have played the game the longest, endured the pains of additional expenses and will reap the rewards. Then another circuit similar to the Everstart or Red Man bass circuits will be created for those like myself, on the outside looking to qualify for a shot to move into the Elite 50.
Dave, when we create the H-3 fueled outboard, I will then retire and won't need to fish any circuit. I'll be too busy traveling from one good bite to another and spending September thru January at all the best whitetail deer camps in the world!!!
To Blaz.....bring it on!!! Competition fires me up more than anything!!! That fire still burns bright and the added expense of fuel costs will make me rethink things but it cannot do anything to that fire. It's quite possible I will be an MWC contestant next year and I will enjoy kicking your a$$.....;)
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Gas prices haven't affected how I do things to much. I used to play ball 5 nights a week, and tournaments every weekend. I would put close to 40k miles a year. During hunting season I would drive 300 miles twice a week to go bowhunting, now I have an agreement with my wife to just hunt the rut, not because of gas, but because I have started to fish more tourneys. That way I would be around the house more.
I will probably fish more tourneys next year, I love the competition. I miss it from my ball playing days. I also look at it as my entertainment.
I have always brought more food from home, and drive to different launches. I have done that just because i'm cheap. | |
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Location: Rockford MN | It's cheap to play ball! I still get dragged out there ( I don't know why) have never bought a bat or glove. The old body has a hard time with those 5 games on Sunday lol Wish I could fish as good as I can hit! lol
I wish that fishing was as fun anymore, hard to cheat in Ball without getting caught! | |
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | It wasn't that cheap to play ball, played from sheboygan down to racine, and out in Madison. At the tiem lived in mil., then playing tournaments all over the state, and the midwest. Payed alot of money out in gas. | |
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| What ever Dave. Your "point" was about sponsors and fishing in relation to a walleye tournament thread as was mine. If you think that a "pro" walleye tournament has anywhere near the draw or economic impact that a PGA event has, well then there is no reason to even discuss it. SURE, you can look at the "total" number of anglers but those are not the numbers that any walleye angler or potential sponsor is concerned with. How many VIEWERS and actual participants does the "walleye industry" have is what's important and the nunmber of saltwater and fly fishermen makes ZERO difference as does those who strictly fish for bass to those who would pay money to promote their product to walleye anglers. OBVIOUSLY frisbe golf is not the golf we are talking about but it's closer to actual golf then Sailfishing is to walleye fishing. | |
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Location: Rockford MN | The goals of sponsors are to see bang for there buck. In the walleye world sponsors are fickle because WE anglers want everything for nothing. Golf with its huge TV contacts and players being payed millions just for using a certin little white ball or club is alot different! Everyone that makes the PGA tour is payed by sponsors, vise versa on the walleye tour end FEW are payed to play.
Is that because golf is more popular than fishing? Maybe but the average guy or gal playing golf will never spend 75k on equipment. Most companies won't sponsor a mass of people, rather opt for the select few they feel can give them the most. In fishing in general, compaines have found ways to "sponsor" the masses by simple putting folks on State Teams or Pro- Staffs. This is peanuts, and has very little impact on the sponsors they simply increase profit margins by rasing the price.
How much do you think it costs to make a golfball? Yet a sleeve of the most popular balls are $7-$10! Golf is very popular now it is by far cheaper to play than any tournament fishing. Its very easy for a NIKE to pay 1 guy 40 million a year when the make 40 million a day on sales of shoes alone! Think it costs Nike shoes cost even 1/10 to have them made? Point being fishing in general is being chocked out, fewer people in the sport because its getting harder and harder for folks to find waters and keep up with the costs. Kids are playing the sports they see on TV rather than the ones there parents enjoy! They see these guys in the "Limelight" and want to be them! I coached 7-8 year old kids last year in baseball, most of these kids thought they were some star! These kids get up to bat and they are waving the bat around like some magic wand. Full set of batting gloves and even some eye black, just what they saw on TV. Needless to say they could'nt hit the broadside of a barn! THEY just want to be that guy in the "limelight"! Walleye fishing on TV is the worst, tournament coverage is terrible! What kid would want to be one of us? Where is the excitement or the glory? It just is not appealing enough to the masses of people!
People see these guys hitting a little white ball, they think I could do that! Or parents saying our kids can do that! Ever hear a Dad say my 8 year old son is gonna be the next big time walleye fishermen?? No, but you here them say they he might be the next Tiger or Jordan or A-Rod thats because they see them everywhere!!
How many walleye anglers actually make an impact for sponsors, or bring people into the sport? VERY FEW! How many Sponsors actually make it a point to promote the walleye anglers in the Limelight? VERY FEW! Thats because it has to be appealing to someone, that someone is the public! Talk to 10 people at work and ask them to name 2 golfers,2 baseball players and 2 football players most can do this without a problem NOW ask them to name 2 of the best walleye anglers in the world!!!!!!
Now back to the topic> FEW sports cost what running and maintaining a boat cost! Gas prices are now a HUGE factor in the expenses we have, you can always find a cheap place to stay or a cheap meal BUT gas is gas and its like liquid gold!!! A good set of clubs can last a life time, and a good boat and motor can last a long time! I have never needed to fuel up my clubs! It may cost me to drive to the course but It costs me double to tow to the ramp and thats without the 60 gal. fuel tank in the boat! | |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | I'm not in the tourney part of the business, but certain things like gas prices always figure into what my strategies are in the charter business. And I did change/add or restrict some things these past couple of years because of it to keep my prices competitive. And I suspect that gas prices will indeed separate what can only be perceived as the different classes in the long run. If your living on a shoe string budget at home taking care of the family obligations, your tourney gas budget just put you out of the tourney competition. And if your a Veteran Touring Pro with many sponsors paying some or most of the cost, in essence your competitive pool just shrunk, which may in the long run be a good thing for you personally. But of course making tournament competition even more elite, would be a bad thing (I think) for the whole fishing/boating business.
But as previously mentioned, it's your reasons for even fishing competitively that will make or break your tourney fishing habits in the long run. I'm thinking that the tourney directors of the smaller (and even the bigger) events themselves will have to set down and modify their own schedules, destinations and strategies to help cut as many corners and expenses as they can for their tourneys participants, to help curb/offset some costs. It's a shame that anybody has to look at tournament fishing as a business first versus fun and recreation, but it's getting down to that isn't it.
Edited by walleye express 7/25/2005 7:11 AM
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Location: Chicago IL. | WOW !!!!!! I,m glad I dont golf. Take labor day weekend for me. My wife and I wanted to go to pool 10 for the weekend for me to start prefishing. After adding up the cost we decided to fish the IL river instead. I really need to put some time in on pool 10 but the approx 250 for gas and close to 300 for a motel make it too much for a weekend of fishing. People that know me cant belive I would make that decsion but with 6 tourneys left untill the end of the year,you have to draw the line somewhere. | |
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| Wow! Joel, you totally misunderstand what I'm getting at. Do I think that a walleye tournament has the TV or attendance draw of a PGA major? Of course not. Having attended both there is no comparison. My initial comments were on Jerry's post regarding gas and tournament fishing. I didn't limit my response to walleye fishing alone. I deal with the entire fishing industry so my responses tend to be more gemneralized regarding the industry.
As far as walleye tournaments being a huge economic impact, well they do provide a nice boost to local economies. I don't have the numbers, but I'm sure the town of Port Clinton OH could provide them or possibly the PWT or the FLW.
Does walleye tournament fishing get the viewsership of golf on TV, nope! Not even close. Heck, golf is live and we have to wait months for walleye tournaments to show up. At least the BASS guys only wait until the following weekend to see the shows.
Are theire more people who fish in this country than play golf? Yep. Has tournament fishing been on TV and promoted by the various organizations and sponsors in an effective and professional way for 40 years? Nope. Only about 10 years of solid tournament coverage and really only since ESPN started covering the FLW and then BASS. The PGA and Tennis have had the promotioon by the network TV powers for more than 40 years. It has become burned into our collective psyche that these are premier sports and that fishing is simply a way to relax for the poor folks or the hillbillies. You know, worm dunking, straw hats, Tom Sawyer, etc.
The reality is that sport fishing has been a passion for people in this country and the world far longer than golf or tennis. Sure, it sustains many cultures and is at its base form as simple a pastime as can be, and that's great. Anybody from any background can do it. Whether you fish walleyes on the Wolf or Mahi off Maui or Peacock bass in the Amazon. It's fishing and folks can relate.
This is why we are starting to see the rise in non-endemic sponsorships in the various forms of tournament fishing. In particular bass, redfish and the other saltwater tournaments are getting the attention. They are more TV friendly than walleye tournaments. By that I mean that they are more exciting to watch that walleye fishing on TV.
Gordy is right, I know of no kids who say they want to be the next walleye pro, but I do know many who know who Mike Iaconelli is or who Kevin Van Dam is. That is becasue of the great job the bass tournament shows have done with highlighting who these people are.
Hopefully our walleye tournament TV shows can start to bring more light on who the personalities are and not focus so much on what the tournaments are and how great the tournament association is. Put the focus on the anglers, let them run with it and who knows, we may have young fans of Jerry Ruffolo and Gordy Powers outside of their immediate family circles.
Anyway, I need to pack my tennis racket and golf clubs for a trip to the West Coast to see family. Oh yeah, we have a couple of days battling chinook salmon and various Puget Sound bottom fish scheduled too. Its not walleye or bass fishing, but its fishing.
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio
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| I can relate to the gas expense issue on a smaller level as a guide. Yes, I can control my gas expense by where I choose to take my trips, but I'm seeing that fewer and fewer of my customers are from places outside Minnesota, or the immediate surrounding states. People just aren't traveling as far by car now as they used to. So while the actual out of pocket expense for me to fuel my boat is somewhat controlable, the fuel costs of my customers to get to Mille Lacs to see me has cost me quite a bit in lost bookings. To some degree, these gas prices are creating more regional economies because of the restrictions it places on peoples travel plans. In other words, it has some what reduced my market segment. Face it, most people only have X number of dollars of expenable income to use for a vacation, and if the cost of gas is so high that it eats up too much of that X number of dollars, those people will reduce their travels so as to still get the most out of their vacation as possible, but only much closer to home. | |
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| And WOW in return Dave. You have failed to understand my point. You said " Hopefully sponsors will start seeing the tremendous value that is provided them by the fishing industry in general. The fishing "audience" far surpasses that of professional tennis or golf and yet is still thought of as a backwoods endeavor by many sponsors." All I tried to do was break down your generalzation of the "fishing industry" as compared to the golf audience and made a point about the number of people "clapping their hands" at each event. If fishing was the same in one place as it is in another (as golf and tennis generally are) then saying that the fishing audience far surpasses those would make more sense. That's why I threw in the frisbee golf comment and have continued to try and clarify my response that sponsoring a walleye angler is different from sponsoring a bass angler or the sailfish events and on and on. Wasn't trying to make you wrong, just making a true statement as to the "industry". Also, I would believe most well rounded potential sponsors would think of professional fishing as being closer to what is IS then a backwoods adveture. Man I didn't mean to hit a nerve, just trying to have a conversation. So pack your bags and enjoy the trip and "Oh Yea", enjoy whatever fishing you do. Not sure where you were going with THAT but don't care.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 7/25/2005 11:09 AM
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| Geez Joel. We are on the same side here. This is the problem with conversations on the Internet. You never get the nuance of the spoken word, just the cold emotionless written verse.
I agree with you about the audience factor as far as on site spectators. The cool thing is that the bass and redfish guys are starting to change that. In fact, at several of the events this year they counted in excess of five thousand people at their weigh-ins. BASS that is. The FLW doesn't attempt to do that. Instead they control their TV weigh-ins audience with their tent so only a limited amount of seats are filled.
When speaking to one of the producers of a redfish tour he said they have crowds in excess of 10,000 people at some of their events. They however have all sorts of activities involved with their events making it a big spectacle.
You are right, walleye tournaments are nowhere near that. Also, no nerve hit here, just a spirited conversation.
As far as heading to the west coast, et.c, I was just being silly. I truly am heading out to do a little salmon and bottom fish angling.
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio
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Location: Rockford MN | Dave
Since you are at the events, any word on how they plan to grow the sport and get people involved? I mean how can we make progress when the tour events seem to just be all the same! Any word out there that they might want to add to the show to really bring people in? Its hard being second fiddle to a bass event! Easy fish that bite almost anything yet have this kind of appeal is going to be tough to compete with! Somehow some way the walleye tours need to figure out its the crowds that bring on the Title sponsors! Look at car racing, cars going around and round for hours yet people flock to it! Not to mention the $$$$$ in sponsorhips payed!
People flock to sportshows and seminars> why can't they get the ball rolling with this? Sites maybe limited but people would come! Maybe they just don't want to see a weigh-in, but a SHOW! Look at the bow shoots they have a sport show also and get huge crowds! You can't tell me there are more bow hunters or shooters than walleye fishermen in the midwest! We need new blood on the tours people with some know how in putting on a show verses the same old its our tour and its about US! | |
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| Gordy,
This is one of the most frustrating things for me to deal with too. The promotion at the BASS events, FLW bass and the redfish tours is terrific. Lots of press, plenty of local participation. Heck, at the E-50 events on lakes Lewisville and Dardanelle, neither big population centers, they had over 5,000 people on the last day of each event sticking around wanting autographs from the pros. Some of the pros were kept there for 2 hours after the weigh-in ended signing autographs for fans.
At the Bassmaster Classic which starts this Thursday the guys at the Classic Patterns television show booth will be selling NASCAR-like hats and t-shirts featuring some of the top pros.
The word I get from some of the folks in charge of the walleye tournaments is that the walleye anglers need to be more loyal, not sure what that means. I also hear the walleye fishing fan is still more into the recreational end of things and not so much into the tournaments. They tell me the typical fishing fan thinks they can fish at the same level of the pros and don't think of them as much pros but more like people with a lot of money who can afford to fish.
I've got no idea what these arguments or points mean, but the bottomline is you're right Gordy. No hoopla, no big fun zones at each event means you won't draw the folks. I love tournament fishing. My entire business is involved with tournament fishing. However, if I'm fishing for muskies up in Hayward and there is tournament and the only thing they have going on is the weigh-in, well I may stop by for a bit. Now if they tied that it with one of the lumberjack shows or timbersports displays or a little dog agility program, well you may lure more folks to come in and stick around.
You guys should have seen the crowds last year for the weigh-ins of the bass/walleye tournament at the Great Outdoor Games. They were huge, over 8,000 people. Those same people had loads of other activities to do to keep them entertained while waiting for the weigh-in. Food booths, other events, displays. It was just terrific.
Not sure why the heads of the walleye tours are not looking at the total package of entertainment to draw an audience, maybe they are? Like Joel was saying, the golf crowds are big and they follow the guys around the course. We need to start creating that kind of interest, not following guys on the course like they do in the bass tournaments, but some kind of onsite activities which will excite the crowds with more than a guy in overalls holding up a couple of 5-pounders.
We, meaning me and the other Walleye FIRST guys, were covering a walleye event last fall. If you took out the competitors and their family members in the stands there may have been a dozen of so people in the stands. This was the major event for this circuit.
The people need to have an enterntainment value to make them show up and stay put. What exactly that is I don't know.
We still need Jerry's nuke guys to develop a hydrogen Merc for us. LOL
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio
Edited by Dave Landahl 7/25/2005 5:16 PM
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| Great thread, while I think there is definately a concern to many regarding gas prices I don't believe it has anything to do with the promotion of the sport. Fishing will NEVER get the attention Golf, Baseball, Football or Nascar do. Those folks have more control over thier destiny, while Fishing will ALWAYS rely on something none of us will ever control..LUCK. You can have lots of money and big sponsors but you still need to have the fish bite, Technology will improve but laws will be written to protect the resource. The only way to grow is your presentation to the public and their perception of Entertainment. For that you must look to the 5 senses and which of those is most stimulated. Visual is the most apealing to all people, so make sure everyone sees it and you most likely have a winner!
Good LUCK
Tyee | |
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Location: Chicago IL. | Well said Dave. I didnt see the Cabelas in Dabuque but I did hear of a ton of things for the families to do there. I agree,there is alot of better things to do with a family than stand around and just watch a weigh in. Kids will get boared FAST. You have to make it into a show/day long event as the bass/redfish boys do. That also takes MONEY!!!!!! Sponser money. Wich as we all know gets thinner every year. I travel to alot of small towns and have never heard a complaint about a motel or resturant full of fisherman. All these people tell me tourism is way down and it is going to be a long winter unless something changes fast.A average of 50 cents more a gallon,$2.59{ at least here in chicago} put alot of people over the edge of traveling this year and staying closer to home. | |
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| These gas prices are brutal. We're opting to take our higher mileage and far less comfortable car on our family trip out to Yellowstone and to Washington State from Illinois due to gas price issues. Our SUV is very comfy, but based on the 30 gallon tank it has we'll average an extra 200 miles per 30 gallons with our car. That equates into a huge savings when we are looking at a 5,000 mile round trip.
Its a bummer, but this gas stuff is really putting the hurt on tourism, tournament anglers and I'm sure those who are running the tournaments.
Dave Landahl
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| Lets put this into perspective guys, how many of you buy a bottle of water at the gas station before you get in the boat?
Here are a few gas prices from around the world!
UK TEESIDE $5.64
HONG KONG HONG KONG $5.62
UK MILFORD HAVEN $5.56
UK READING $5.56
UK NORWICH $5.54
GERMANY FRANKFURT $5.29
DENMARK COPENHAGEN $5.08
NORWAY STAVANGER $5.07
NORWAY OSLO $4.93
ITALY ROME $4.86
TURKEY ISTANBUL $4.85
PORTUGAL LISBON $4.80
KOREA SEOUL $4.71
SWITZERLAND GENEVA $4.56
KOREA KOJE/OKPO $4.53
AUSTRIA VIENNA $4.50
CROATIA ZAGREB $4.32
JAPAN TOKYO $3.84
AUSTRALIA SYDNEY $2.63
CAMBODIA PHNOM PENH $2.57
TAIWAN TAIPEI $2.47
Good Luck
Tyee
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Location: Rhinelander | Great thread, and an interesting take by several competitors and from those who are on the other side of things. I've been involved in the Walleye tournament trade since it's beginning, and have watched it grow from Manion's debacle the original Manufaturers Walleye Council to the PWT, FLW, Masters Walleye Circuit, and the many regionals including WWA, GNWC, etc.
When this all began gasoline cost about .70 a gallon. Average boat length was 16', and average horsepower was 50. As the sport sophisticated, costs across the board rose. Travel to areas not even considered for events before became the norm. Boat, motor, and other fishing related companies grew budgets to sponsor events, anglers, and cover costs associated with selling 'walleye boats' and all that sells on same. Regional and national boat builders produced specific products that are WALLEYE all the way, and developed marketing and promotional programs to assist in selling those products to the general public. An entire industry developed and continues to grow, despite a general marine business tough climate. Now boat lengths average over 18', power is V-6 and a kicker, and the tow vehicle needs to be powerful. Prefishing used to mean a couple days, now it can be a couple weeks. The ante was raised, the winnings were raised, the public's perception of the sport has become heightened. The PWT took the sport from team format to Pro/Co format, and RCL/FLW followed that lead. Coverage on In Fisherman and FLW now is on TV, albeit not the next weekend. All this equates to a growing sport.
The original question here was if gasoline prices will hurt the sport. Short term, probably, but gasoline prices have risen steaily throughout the entire development of the sport. The angers will adjust, the economy will adjust, as will the many circuits. Those who do not will be gone.
The tournament circuits that do not draw the traveling Pro or Pro Team and offer television, hard copy, and web related coverage (or at least some of the three) will have to adjust to the anglers they target; the developing 'pro' and the folks who fish competitively for entertainment. That angler's budget will be paramount to the survival of any team circuit, that's for sure.
Look at the Mercury Marine National Walleye Tournament, associated with Walleye Wekend. It's not uncommon to see the area for the weigh in packed tight, probably near 1000 or more folks. Many would not be there if not for the festival. Can or will the PWT and FLW attempt to pull off a festival atmospere like that at each event? I don't think so. The Championship for both events is a show, that's for sure.
TV coverage almost has to be part and parcel with ownership or a strong relationship between the circuit and a network generated at the least, or the economics work against the process. ESPN/BASS, PWT/In Fisherman, etc. | |
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| We need to look at what others have done. Golf tournaments are not well attended until the "cut" Saturday and Sunday. Lets face it. People do no take off work to attend weigh-ins. Why not have the 3 and 4 day pro tournaments on Thur, Fri, Sat & Sun.
As others have said, make an event out of it. The Evinrude tournament on Leech Lake,MN is a great example of this.
TV, TV, TV!!! It is all about TV coverage. People enjoy watching walleye fishing on TV. However, when the heck is it on? I fish the tournaments and I can't even find the tournaments on TV. Once we get better TV coverage, the rest will fall into place. Nascar has been around a long time, but it took big time TV deals to get it to where it is today.
Walleye fishing can be interesting. But, picking lakes that make things interesting is the key. The major circuits fished some VERY tough bites this year and that makes for poor TV (FLW Bull Shoals, PWT-Fox Chain). A lake like Devils Lake or Pool 4 are perfect. Lots of big fish and lots of fish in general. People like to see fish being caught, that is easy enough. Just pick the right lakes and promote the anglers! | |
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| Thanks for the clarity Dave. YUP, on the same side. My wife made perfect comment when she said that if a fishing company had a product that was good for all fishermen, they would have to spread money over the top people in lots of different markets to hit all the demographics. In golf you may just need one guy, or the "hot" guy to reach the entire audience. I mean who in golf didn't hear about the "Big Bertha" but when my buddy first started taking about some "plastic fuzz ball" of sorts and I didn't know it by name he was amazed. How can you not know what a GITZIT?? orwhat ever it was..is. Whew.
Again, thanks for the reply. | |
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Location: Oshkosh | Many of you talk about the gas prices in relation to tournament fishing.... while the dollars that tournament fishing brings to the economy is substantial, think about the millions of little guys out there who would like to spend a day on the water with their kids, or whatever. Combined, they represent a far bigger slice of the pie. Last year I decided to give up fishing in tournaments, even if it was one or two local events. This year, my boat has seen the water a grand total of 5 times, the last time being in late June. I cannot justify the gas expenses for my tow vehicle and my boat (36 gallon tank) today at $2.59/gallon (and still rapidly rising). Sure I could drop a couple gallons in and go out in the Fox River a couple blocks from my house and be happy with what I may end up catching there, but things will never be the same.
Tyee, you related the different gas prices fom several areas in the world. One of the main reasons their gas prices are high is because of their reluctance to build refineries on their own soil- they purchase the bulk of their gas already made from other countries. Overall, the situation is what it is here because of 3 things- Economically Third-world countries (mainly China) are in the midst of an economic boom that is seeing their automobile use skyrocket. They are demanding a large chunk of the current oil supply. Secondly, the US hasn't built a new refinery here since the 70's. We only have so much production capabilities. And thirdly, there is NO oil shortage out there- we just have too many countries (including our country) that are reluctant to harvest what is already in the ground in their territories. When you have OPEC nations (like Saudi Arabia and Venezuela) dictating how much oil they will produce, it is tough to meet the demands of the entire world.
I am not one to believe that just because gas prices are high in Europe of wherever that we should be "happy" that our gas is "only" $2.60/gallon. With that logic, we can still be happy when gas hits $3.00/gal (which it will by the end of the year) because there are so many places where it is still higher. Our country has the ability and resources to cover a large chunk of our supply needs, but as a country we do not yet have the political will to get this done (of which why is completely beyond me).
I envy all of you who are still able to gas up your boats and fish in different places in competition... I just hope that you don't end up going in the hole in the long run. The bad thing is high prices for gas isn't where it will end. With an economy that relies so heavily on gas-burning vehicles to distribute product, we are starting to see companies pass on the hike in fuel prices in the form of higher prices for those goods sold. Maybe this is in the form of a Rapala being 5 cents more in cost or a rod and reel combo being $5 more... it all adds up and it gets harder to justify spending your hard-earned money for recreational purposes.
I see no end to this trend in the foreseeable future....
Is anyone interested in buying a used boat? | |
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Location: Milw, WI | I just filled the car at $2.85 a gal.
I can not afford to drive to the Wis. river to shore fish even at these prices.
I get better better value ( 7 mpg) on real gas but can not afford to drive 2 counties out to get it, any more.
It will be a long boring fall for me if some thing dosen't shake losse.
Tip if coming in to Mil.area fill with real gas before you get here, the RFG still sucks.
They just dropped the RFG regs. for a bunch of cities , but not us.
Boy thanks............. | |
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| I wonder what would happen if someone developed a circuit that had a limited boat length and horsepower rating? Kinda like the local race tracks do with different classes. For instance you could say that the circuit is limited to 18' boats with a max HP of 150HP 4 strokes?
Sure would go a long way to limiting your expense on equipment and fuel. I would think the boat companies would like this idea as the bulk of their sales are more targeted towards this market than the 21'er's with the 250's. The tourney guys would be using the products they are actually selling.
As long as everyone was using the same or similar equipment, what difference would it make?
When are they gonna make an outboard that can run on ethanol? | |
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Location: Chicago IL. | That reminds me of the GNWC IL state championship I fished 2 years ago. We fished Evergreen Lake and it had a 10 hp limit. It was the first time I smoked the big boats off the shot gun start!!!!!!! HAHAHA | |
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Location: Rhinelander | We hit $2.85 a gallon yesterday. Listeing tp an analyst yesterday on the radio, gasoline is supposed to drop some after Labor Day IF there is no natural or other disaster that would interrupt refining. | |
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| Ya watch it go to $3.00 on Labor day and then it will drop back to 1.85 for October and then up to $3.00 again for the Hunting/Holiday season!!
Good Luck
Tyee | |
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Location: upper michigan | I will do cart wheals if it hits $1.85 I think $2.00 is more realistic. | |
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| What's SO surprising is that (according to what I saw on World News Tonight, last night) demand has not gone down (yet) and actualy went up a bit as most are still in their "two and a half truck" families and as we all know, you have to get to work. As far as gas mileage, consumers in general are JUST starting to make those types of decisions and most are already looking towards a limited spending year for the holidays as the next step, before down sizing their ride or drastically changing driving habits such as car pooling.
What can we do? A rotating boycott of gasoline companies? I think that just hurts the local station owner and their employee's the most. Demand better technology? How much is our government spending on funding for better technology such as hydrogen engines? Billions being spent on "pork". I really wonder how much control the "lobbiests" have over things like this? I mean if the people who voted you in to office make money selling oil, where are your loyalties? To the USA as a whole or? I also wonder how the "futures" market really works. They say that part of the reason for high oil prices is fear about the future of this or that. Does that mean we are paying more for gas TODAY because of fear about six months from now??? Time for a change!! | |
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| A big part of the solution is within our grasp. I've been getting 105 miles per gallon of gas in my '04 Yukon with the 5.3 flex fuel engine for several months. 24 gallons of fuel per fill at 15% gas equals 3.6 gallons. I get around 380 miles per fill which works out to over 100 miles per gallon!! As more and more flex fuel vehicles are sold and more locations offer E85 we can reduce demand and our dependence on foreign oil, and that will help lower the price. I don't make the 20 minute drive to save the 25 bucks but rather because it feels good to do what I can for the long term solution. Helping the local farmers, the environment, dependence on foreign oil and my pocket book!!!!! | |
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Location: Rockford MN | I have to think that will work both ways! As we depend more on the blend fuels the prices will go up because of demand! In other words no matter what fuel it is SOMEONES going to profit GREATLY! Whenever something has to be manufactured people have to pay for it! Fuel is the easiest product produced to jump prices around, we have to pay whatever they want to run our vehicles! Although it's nice to see some more people here profiting from fuel, it's also the next step to government taking control of fuels. After reading a few things about blended fuels seems we pay more in the end anyways, we meaning TAX dollars are fundind the whole thing. The old saying is holding true " You wash my back and I'll wash yours"
Impact will be Hydro power, better all the way around for the environment and the pocket book! However if someone does'nt stand to make a TON of money this will be years away from being standard issue! | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Remember though, it's definitely not the corner gasoline station making all the money. This situation now causes them to sell the same or slightly less fuel, but MUCH less product across the counter in the convenience section which is where the money really is because of less disposable income.
Oil prices are defined by the world market; gasoline reflected directly within that same framework adjusted by current US demand and supply and the 'futures' market. If, for example, a major US refinery in the south has to shut down because of a Hurricane for say, three weeks, but demand remains the same, the price of gasoline at the pump here in Rhinelander, WI WILL go up sharply. It's the age old economic supply/demand model, with LOTS of speculation added in because of the Middle East situation and much, much more. Oil at over $60 per barrel is not a sustainable price in the current model if demand falls and the market stabilizes, so all the analysts say fuel prices will come down some after Labor Day as travel reduces. IMHO the key is having supplies outstrip demand for awhile, that will get it done. | |
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| Yep, simple supply and demand. The solution is within everyones grasp. Cut back on consumption. The pain level has not been reached. I think it will take $3.50/gal plus to make folks seriously change there consumption habits. Those who can afford the increases will not change their ways unless they feel some communal obligation. The many who's budgets are severely impacted will be the leaders in the conservation efforts through necessity.
Remember the trama at $2.00/ gal.? Whether we will make the true pain threshold this year is yet to be seen. If the price levels stay high, the SUV and truck sales may show there first significant sales decreases in years, which will contribute to long term conservation.
These things all work out in a market economy, it just isn't pretty.
Take care,
Jim O | |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | gilman911 - 8/16/2005 6:49 PM
A big part of the solution is within our grasp. I've been getting 105 miles per gallon of gas in my '04 Yukon with the 5.3 flex fuel engine for several months. 24 gallons of fuel per fill at 15% gas equals 3.6 gallons. I get around 380 miles per fill which works out to over 100 miles per gallon!! As more and more flex fuel vehicles are sold and more locations offer E85 we can reduce demand and our dependence on foreign oil, and that will help lower the price. I don't make the 20 minute drive to save the 25 bucks but rather because it feels good to do what I can for the long term solution. Helping the local farmers, the environment, dependence on foreign oil and my pocket book!!!!!
Gillman.
I like any idea that puts money in our own USA farmers pockets. Even if the technology and refinement costs for this high bred fuel had a sustained higher cost, I think I'd bite that bullet for as long as I possibly could. It would be bound to level off at some point, and not be fluctuated every time some Arab Sheek farted.  | |
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Member
Posts: 540
Location: Milw, WI | I think you will all be suprized if you found out who really names those prices.
It is not the guy whos well it is pumped out of.
When the price was $40 a barrel here the price was $2.00 u.s. funds to the well owner.
Edited by Richfish 8/19/2005 9:56 AM
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Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Issue Date: 8/18/2005, Posted On: 8/18/2005 DOE sees fuel prices continuing to rise
Average retail prices of gasoline and diesel jumped nearly 20 cents a gallon earlier this week, the largest increase on record, according to a weekly government report. The Department of Energy’s Energy Information Agency says prices at the pumps will continue to rise over the next few weeks as recent price increases in the wholesale market work their way through to consumers. Crude oil prices, which last week topped $66 a gallon, helped lead to price increases at the pump. But reduced supply of gasoline due to recent refinery outages, which reduce the amount of gasoline or diesel that can be produced, also drove up prices. “The biggest problem is refinery problems,” says Kevin Little of Onyx Mansfield oil. “Refineries drive everything that’s going on in the country.” The nation’s gasoline supply fell by 5 million barrels last week to 198.1 million barrels, or 12 percent below last year, according to the Department of Energy. Crude oil inventories grew by 300,000 barrels last week to 321.1 million barrels, or 11 percent above year ago levels. Retail prices were on the rise throughout the country, with average prices for regular gasoline about 18.2 cents higher and diesel prices about 16 cents higher.
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Member
Posts: 279
Location: Rockford MN | Yes it's all about the money! Nice report (or scam) they put out! I have yet to go to a gas station that has sent me away because they don't have any fuel! This sickens me to end the amount of money that these companies make off our suffering. When is the last time ONE of these fuel refineries lost money? They can have a huge oil spill somewhere off Alaska and 3 years later are back to making BILLIONS of American workers hard earned money! To top that off "our" own goverment seems to turns its head when ever the scam artists want more money! Oh to be that powerful and able to buy people! I think they let them do these things to take focus off of other things if you know what I mean?? Maybe they should be spending some of that money to up date there equipment or hiring more help, instead of buying the people we trust to take of these problems? Just a thought, now I have to get the door the IRS is here to audit me again! lol | |
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Gas prices and tournament fishing