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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Given the nature of the gas price conversation and the questions and issues that arose from it, I thought this would be a good thing to discuss.
My ideas are for more festival-like atmospheres to attract more attention to the event. The more people you draw to an event, the more incidental interest you will attract. I would like to see the PWT and FLW personnel make it mandatory for communities to have other events coincide with the tournament to bring in the people. The more people we attract to these events, the bigger attraction it will become.
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| As was mentioned, move these tourney's to include Saturday and Sunday. Have a festival attached to it. What is the reason to have the PWT's on W,T,F? No wonder there isn't anybody at the weigh ins. And the FLW, if staying with 4 days, should be T,F,S,and Sunday.
As Steve said, look at the Merc Nats. Walleye Weekend is a huge deal in Fondy. The Merc has been very successful from the beginning. Why? Because of Walleye Weekend. There is probably more people there on a given day, than all the PWT and FLW events combined! They have lots to do for the families. There's beer, food, rides, Kid's Fishing tourney, animals, beer, music, sideshows, B-Ball, V-ball, Softball tourney's, a 5 or 10K run, beer, and the Nats Weigh in. Did I mention they have beer? Seriously, this is a huge event, and I bet more people there know more anglers' names than the average tourney observer. The Nat's are an integral part of Walleye Weekend. I think Walleye Weekend would still be huge without the Nats. I doubt the opposite would be the case. Without Walleye Weekend, I'm not so sure the Nats would have the big crowd for the weigh in, or fill the 300 boat field.
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| I don't think it is so much a matter of building the popularity of tournament fishing, as much as it is to increase the attractivness of an event so it will draw a larger audiance. Take a look around and there are sooooo many tournament curcuits out there today that by their shear numbers you would have to think that they as a whole dilute the drawing power of any one event. There are so many of these 15-30 boat tournament curcuits. The public has easy access on a regular basis to fill their tournament interest. Take for instance, Mille Lacs...this year so far there have been 14 tournaments on this one lake alone, and that is just thru the 3rd week of July. Now multiply that out over all the different quality walleye waters in each state in the upper mid-west!!
It might not be a question of building the popularity so much as it is to reduce the saturation level of tournament opportunities. Heck, most people are fishing some tourney somewhere every time someone else is having a tournament and wondering why nobody comes to the weigh in! | |
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| I just copied my post from the Gas Topic. This is a good topic!!
We need to look at what others have done. Golf tournaments are not well attended until the "cut" Saturday and Sunday. Lets face it. People do no take off work to attend weigh-ins. Why not have the 3 and 4 day pro tournaments on Thur, Fri, Sat & Sun.
As others have said, make an event out of it. The Evinrude tournament on Leech Lake,MN is a great example of this.
TV, TV, TV!!! It is all about TV coverage. People enjoy watching walleye fishing on TV. However, when the heck is it on? I fish the tournaments and I can't even find the tournaments on TV. Once we get better TV coverage, the rest will fall into place. Nascar has been around a long time, but it took big time TV deals to get it to where it is today.
Walleye fishing can be interesting. But, picking lakes that make things interesting is the key. The major circuits fished some VERY tough bites this year and that makes for poor TV (FLW Bull Shoals, PWT-Fox Chain). A lake like Devils Lake or Pool 4 are perfect. Lots of big fish and lots of fish in general. People like to see fish being caught, that is easy enough. Just pick the right lakes and promote the anglers! | |
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Location: Port Washington, wisconsin | I would agree they need more media coverage. I don't believe I saw any final standings in the Milwaukee journal when the pros fished out of Winneconne last year. I can't imagine why they wouldn't cover such an event. I think someone could write a column just about every week during the season on tourny finals in all the different specie events. | |
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| I pulled this from BassFan:
40K for FLW 7/26/2005
How about those Arkansas BassFans? FLW Outdoors reported that 40,671 people attended the Forrest L. Wood Championship's 4-day outdoor show and weigh-ins in Hot Springs, Ark. That's a big number.
"This was by far the largest and most successful event we've ever held in the Hot Springs Convention Center since the construction of Summit Arena in 2003," said Steve Arrison, executive director for the Hot Springs Convention and Visitors Bureau. "This is exactly the type of event we envisioned when planning the arena, and we hope to host many more FLW Outdoors championship tournaments in the future."
We really need the walleye tournament chiefs to take notice of how this is done. But it all comes down to money. If they don't have it to spend on making a spectacle of the events then it can't happen.
I've got FLW Outdoors chief Charlie Evans on our radio show this week. I'll make sure to ask him about this kind of exposure.
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio
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Location: Rockford MN | I'll bet the FLW spent ZERO on this! That many fans is a good thing for fishing, wish we could see 1/4 of that at some events. | |
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Location: Chilton, WI | bagz, I agree with you on that one. I also think local radio stations should mention something before the big events and maybe announce the name of the winners or top 3 teams or something. They really seem to be scrounging for news lately. I recall sitting at work listening to the news on the radio (WAPL) the Monday after the FLW event on Bago. Their news consisted of 3 car crashes in which people died and a break-in at some bar and some other worthless happenings in the area. Now I didn't expect to hear anything about the FLW event but don't you think listeners would rather hear something positive rather than hearing about tradgedies like that? That kind of stuff just boggles my mind. | |
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| I have to agree with the days that they have them on. My partner and I have wanted to attend the Saginaw Bay weigh-ins but neither one of us were going to take off of work to go. If they had it on the weekends guys would go and fish then pull off the water and watch the weigh-ins. Also like stated before I think if you teamed with the local community it could be a bigger event. Have a good local band and a tent set up on friday and saturday night and you would be surprised how many people you would have. I fished a smallllllllllllll local lions club walleye festival this year for the first time and the town was full of people. They had a band one night and a small fire works show food and beverage, and this from a small community and lions club. I think if the FLW, PWT talked with the local Lions, Rotary Club , ect, they could have more of a festival atmosphere. They could promote it to the clubs and let them put it out to the local communities as for example PWT / Bay City Lions Club Saginaw Bay Tournment. Give them all or a portition of the conssesion take and it would be bigger then it has ever been.
Edited by Taildancer 7/27/2005 6:56 AM
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| Give a million dollars to the Winner!!!!!!!!!!
"PARTIAL POST FROM ANOTHER SITE"
14.Jul.2005
MINNEAPOLIS — Wal-Mart FLW Outdoors and Ranger Boats have combined efforts to conduct the richest bass tournament in the history of the sport. A record $1 million in cash will be awarded to the first-place pro in the Ranger Owners Championship (ROC). There will also be a record $250,000 in cash paid to the first-place co-angler in the ROC.
Irwin Jacobs, chairman of Wal-Mart FLW Outdoors, stated: “When we started the Wal-Mart FLW Tour 10 years ago, I hoped and believed that there would come a day when professional anglers would have the opportunity to compete in one of our tournaments for a million-dollar payday. That day has now arrived, and there is no one happier or more excited than me.”
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Location: Northern Illinois | I think there are two different sides to a community hosting a primetime walleye tournament. Whats in it for the community??? What's in it for the tour event MWC/PWT/FLW??? The community wants the money the 400 plus anglers bring to town for 4-10 days. Plus the potential residual effect of a PWT or FLW event 1-2 years down the road for that community. The anglers want more exposure for current sponsors and future sponsor opportunities; above and beyond a good fish bite.
When a group such as the MWC, PWT or FLW contract with a community to host, is that not the responsibility of the community chamber/whatever to tie the tourney into some community event? SO perhaps the event organizers - fishing side and community side, should discuss and negotiate such ties into a festival or community event. And if the community refuses to do so, maybe the fishing organization looks elsewhere for a more agreeable host - - or are there not enough interested communities to host?
Food for thought....
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | walleye mike - 7/27/2005 5:41 PM
I think there are two different sides to a community hosting a primetime walleye tournament. Whats in it for the community??? What's in it for the tour event MWC/PWT/FLW??? The community wants the money the 400 plus anglers bring to town for 4-10 days. Plus the potential residual effect of a PWT or FLW event 1-2 years down the road for that community. The anglers want more exposure for current sponsors and future sponsor opportunities; above and beyond a good fish bite.
When a group such as the MWC, PWT or FLW contract with a community to host, is that not the responsibility of the community chamber/whatever to tie the tourney into some community event? SO perhaps the event organizers - fishing side and community side, should discuss and negotiate such ties into a festival or community event. And if the community refuses to do so, maybe the fishing organization looks elsewhere for a more agreeable host - - or are there not enough interested communities to host?
Food for thought....
You make some good points Mike.
But from my experience, I'll tell you that our chamber of commerce and our city fathers haven't a clue or seem to care what impact and importance the fishing sports have on our local economy. There have been times and circumstances that they have turned their nose up or neglected ideas and events that both promote and bring money into our area via our great (year round) fishing opportunities. Bay City is an old town with old infrastructure that seems to demand their constant attention. So they build new arenas or civic centers that stay vacant 75% of the time, but turn their noses up at making space or promoting a professional fishing tournament. They just don't see it as being connected to the community well being. We have three very big events every year that attract thousands of locals and visitors. We have one of the biggest fire works displays in the state that lasts for 3 days. We have the 3 day "River Roar" with professional speedboat champions from around the world. And we have the "Pig GIG" that last 3 days and attracts thousands. All these events are near or staged right where the PWT had their event this year. I know that even though the PWT was canceled 2 of the 3 days, the exposure that they would have received (if it had been tied into any of these events) would had been beneficial to all parties involved.
Edited by walleye express 8/1/2005 7:24 AM
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| What better festival to hold in conjunction with a walleye tournament!? The "Pig Gig"! What a marketing bonaza that could/should be!
Edited by Shep 7/28/2005 8:23 AM
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | I have to agree with what shep said, about having a festival tied in with the tournaments. We were one of the first boats in on Sat. at the merc. There were more people standing around watching the weigh-in, then there were for the PWT. By the end of the weigh-in they were at least 10 deep, even more on Sun.. I just looked at the pictures from this weeks PWT, not alot of people watching, except for family members and tourney anglers.
If the communities can somehow run a festival in conjunction with the tournament, I believe you will see alot more interest. | |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | ttt | |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Jerry, since your a avid PWT participant, maybe you or anyone else knows if the following occurs. Following on Walleye Express, does the PWT/FLW/MWC actually market the tourney making a tour stop in a specific community? By that, I mean using tools such as marketing documents/materials and a financial impact report to share/present to the community chamber? The marketing docs could include such items as ideas/pictures and references of some of the more successful past community events, types of events coinciding with a tourney, and other community specific details. A financial impact report should also represent both immediate impact as well as 12 month and 24 month. Or does the dialouge of a potential community hosting a tourney occur more of the tone about a local fishing club carring forward volunteers? | |
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Location: Rockford MN | I think it has more to do with the help and ramps and parking than anything. The things you asked would cost money and take time, they just need sites on the dates they have open! Tours like the PWT will fish anywhere, while the MWC perfers to fish where they think they can fill the events! The Midwest has the most walleye tournament anglers so it makes sence to stay close to home to get the most anglers. Area businesses know how much they stand to gain, motels full of boats and trucks is always a sign of money! Every area that a good lake with a good park or launch knows how great this is for the area chamber! Look at the last MWC, no one would even be there walleye fishing that time of year! Over in Door county they are booked for months (Salmon) but no one cares about walleye fishing in July on Green Bay! So the Motels got a load of money they never would have seen, let alone the bars and grills and gas stations!
I think that most tours let the area chamber handle all the "Get the word out" as to who and when! Local radio and newspapers also have a small thing about whats happening. | |
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| BASS just set a new standard this weekend with their coverage. I hope all tournament directors watched that coverage and how they promoted their anglers. That was an awesome show and I am a walleye guy!! | |
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Location: Combined Locks, WI | Gary Gray put a great post regarding the Bass Masters Classic on WC. Gary states that untill ESPN or the like purchases the PWT, FLW or MWC the walleye world will never get the same exposure BASS does. Go read his response and see if you agree. I myself agree 100% with him on that post. The Classic was a sight to see, now imagine actually being there. | |
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Location: Combined Locks, WI | I hope Gary doesn't mind but here is his post from the other site.
Gary wrote:
I too, have been watching the Bass Masters Classic on ESPN, and now, come to the conclusion, Walleye Tournament Fishing, will never reach that level, without ESPN.
I have fished for 21 yrs, Have won a few, and always was told Walleye Tournaments are in their infant stage. Well, it will never grow up, at the rate they are going, they will always be an infant to Bass world, if they don't wake up and smell the Roses.
You can see, why the Bass guys, dominate the Sponsor world, with all the Press they get. Let's face it, when a Championship gets 8-10 hrs of coverage on ESPN, who's going to get the largest piece of the pie. It doesn't take a Brain surgeon to figure it out.
No doubt, the PWT is the Best show out there, but, if they don't step up to the plate soon, someone will, and then they will be the dominate force in the Walleye world. They need to Spice it up, get live coverage, and step up the pace, to get out of the Toddler seat. Enough of the infant syndrom, let us grow, and grow with us, or step aside, and let someone else give us the nutients to grow.
You can't expect sponsor's, to fork out the big bucks to walleye guy's, when they can't get tv coverage. The top ten on the Classic list today, have gotten more coverage today alone, then any 50 walleye guys will get in a whole year. Let's face it, we need ESPN, or someone of their likeness, to take over the Walleye world, or we will never see a big paycheck.
A wise Sponsor told me, if you want to make a Million dollars fishing Walleyes, then you better start with $ 2,000,000.00. And he is very correct.
I hold more Walleye titles than any other Walleye guy, bar none, and I have won more Major titles than any other Walleye guy, yet dollar for dollar, the Bass guys still dominate the Paycheck line. The only title I have not won, is the PWT Championship!
This is my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, Sorry for blowing off steam, but after watching a Spectacular event onfold on ESPN, it makes me wonder, how long it's going to take for the Tournament director's to see the light!!!!
Gary Gray
NPAA#10
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Location: Combined Locks, WI | After posting the above two replies, I went over to WC and read the whole thread on the BassMasters. Very interesting reading, it will be interesting to see where walleye tournaments end up. I believe the time is now to start making a difference or we will never get a chance at that piece of the pie. There are many good posts over there, go take a look then come back here and lets get our own disscussion fired back up. | |
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Location: Rhinelander | I have read this thread with interest, because I too have watched Walleye angling, especially competitive walleye angling, develop over the years and was involved in the infancy stage directly.
I think Gary has it backwards, which isn't uncommon opinion. ESPN didn't buy BASS because it needed a boost from a big sports oriented media business, they bought it because it was already sponsor rich and pumping out media opportunity like a fire hose pumps water. We won't even discuss the geographical and population deomgraphics, those are obvious. There are alot more bass opportunities than walleye, and that's for certain. ESPN bought BASS because it was a going concern and a good match for ESPN's outdoors and fishing programming direction.
ESPN paid over 50 million for the circuit if I remember things correctly. In order to buy in as a major sponsor for the FLW, a direct competitor to BASS, one had better be ready to shell out over 1 million dollars. How did BASS and FLW get that flush? The circuits have been there a very long time, and maturity has alot to do with things. Weekend Bass fishing shows are and have been common for well over 20 years, and ESPN makes sure they get top shelf slots during the Saturday and Sunday morning prime time. Bass Pro has that name for a reason.
The first fibergalss fishing bass boats were designed in the 70's, and the first dedicated Walleye boats in the late 80's nearly two decades after the first Skeeter and Ranger bass boats. True innovation in the Walleye boat trade really began in about 1991. The team circuits for walleye began in earnest the 80's, again a decade or more after BASS and the regional feeder circuits, Red Man, and the like were underway. A true Pro format wasn't available until In Fisherman came out with the PWT, which by BASS age is still pretty young.
Walleye event coverage and popularity isn't just a 'tournament promoter' issue, it's a market development issue coupled with all that is associated with market development. Nothing ESPN could do would vault Walleye coverage and payouts to miraculous new levels, the market simply isn't developed enough yet to get the type of sponsor support that costs 1 million dollors a pop or more. Will Walleye Championship events ever equal the payouts of the BASS world? Look at the FLW Championship payout with contingencies, and what VanDam just took home, and try to continue to argue it will not.
A friend of mine always says this about sales/marketing issues and the like:
"This is a process, not an event!"
He's right. | |
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| Trust me, I'd love to see ESPN covering the walleye world the same as BASS but, I do believe we are missing the point about one thing: trolling.
As much as I love to troll, and know it is an awesome way to catch walleye, I don't believe it is the most entertaining for casual channel surfers to stop and watch. How many times have you seen Kevin Van Dam catch a bass while trolling? Zero. What about Redfish caught trolling in a tournament? Zero. Okay, billfish and other ocean variety have appeared, but let's face it, GIANT fish are the attraction.
If you look at all major circuits, how many tourneys are fished on waters designed for trolling? I'd guess 50% or more. I could be wrong, but my point is if walleye tourneys featured more casting, pitching and jigging, then maybe the TV shows become more exciting and compelling. Exciting enough for the casual channel surfer to stop, watch, and watch again. Sponsors are looking for numbers and BASS on ESPN has produced the numbers. I don't think it would have been the same if Mike Iaconelli was watching planer boards all day, do you?
Just my thoughts.......
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| Tourney fan, People are alot like fish it's all about the presentation! If it's good they will watch it and suck it in!
Being a decade behind Bass, or 2/3 of the way through the "process" (great one Steve as I too have heard that one over the years) is one thing and all this discussion is great and the comparison to Bass intriguing is another, but there is one thing about walleye and tournament popularity that concerns me and no one has brought to the discussion table, and that is the public. For discussion sake only and not to get things stirred up.
Don't you think the public opinion of table fare fish and tournament fishermen need to do a bit more PR work first? If ESPN or a company of the likes were to get involved with Walleye I think there would definately have to be a Public Relations department to handle the backlash. Most people are not concerned about Bass because most don't consume them. Walleye on the other hand is enjoyed as table fare by millions. There needs to be a lot of work done by boat manufacturers and the industry to ensure survival rates if there is ever nation wide coverage at a super walleye tournament. Directors need to start work on this now and get the local media focused on the bennefits, charitable contributions etc.
The last few tournaments I have been to have discussed Economics and what the tournament has done for the local economy, hogwash in my opinion, I wanna hear that the participants are available for a qustion and answer period after an event, in town doing seminars, teaching kids, taking kids out prefishing, stopping by the local shelters, taking a gift to the old folks home! Education and community involvement means more than the one thousand dollars you spent at the local gas station or hotel, In my simple mind anyway!
People food for thought!
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 8/1/2005 7:41 PM
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| Face it guys, most "local" anglers hate tournaments and tournament fisherman. How many times have you flew by some poor guy in a 14 footer and nearly capsized him with your 20 foot 250 horse tournament boat? How many times have you seen pictures from tournaments where the winner is holding an 8 pounder that has been dead for several hours, while preaching catch and release. Have you ever been on Winnebago after a tournament and seen the numbers of dead walleyes floating belly up? What happens to the walleyes that are brought in dead at a tourney on the bay? Those bigger fish can't be much good to eat.(unless you're a mink) Also, there are way too many tournaments on the Winnebago system. Take a look through some of the tournament pictures. I have seen way too many with the winners holding their check in one hand and a dead "trophy" in the other. Until we address these issues tournament walleye fishing will continue to take a back seat to the bass. I need to be anonymous this tme, but somebody had to say it. | |
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| Did you see the televised event last year where the angry lake-home owner approached the BASS angler on the water on Live TV (while Jerry McKinnis was interviewing him) and yelled at him out for leaving too large a wake at his dock? | |
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Location: Devils Lake, ND | Well, here goes nothing. Please don't hold any of this against me as we are all on the same team.
First of all, I believe we are our own worst enemy on several points. #1, get out of your head that we aren't big enough to compete with BASS. That is BS. Was NASCAR even close to the size of F1 and Indy ten years ago? I remeber as a kid, if you wanted to watch racing on Wide Word of Sports, the cars had no fenders. Build it and they will come. NASCAR is a perfect example of placing the right product in the right place and creating something from nothing.
Next, walleye fishing is boring to watch? Then why is this site so popular? If watcing planer board is so boring, then why do we do it? If it is exciting enough to do, then it can be shown in a manner that will make you want to watch it. Is painting a room in your house exciting to do? I do not believe so, but how many hours in a day can you watch that on cable TV? I think watcing my planer boards sink on Lake Erie or Saginaw Bay is pretty darn exciting, and I bet all of you do too.
The table fare argument does not hold water with me either. Trust me when I say this, there are plenty of folks out there that do not throw a bass away. I have traveled and lived many places where bass are considered table fare the same as walleye are. I know it sounds hard to believe, but it is true.
All of us want to see the sport grow, none worse than I do. I have chose to work my tail off in this industry for 12 years now and have no plans of giving up. The problem is that we are admitting defeat before we even start by saying we aren't big enough, our sport isn't exciting enough, our fish taste too good. We need to build it and let them come.
I watched nearly every minute of the Classic on Sunday. I didn't watch it to see KVD skip 12 inchers across the water. No one here can tell me that is more exciting thatn watching a planer board go backwards. Actually, there was very little fishing action shown on TV. I watched on the edge of my seat to see when, why, how, where KVD was doing his thing. I watched because I used to live only an hour away from Pitt PA. Actually my High School Prom was on a river boat there. I watched to hear the industry insider information and to see where the game is headed.
My family watched because they think I am some kind of weirdo to watch this all day, so it must be good. The point I am trying to make is that not everyone watches for the same reason. Who cares, as long as they watch. NASCAR is the same way, so is golf. I do not have a driver in NASCAR, I watch for the wrecks. I do not own golf clubs, but I watch to get in the psyche of the golfers, to see the mental part of their preparation. Maybe I can learn something from them. These are not common reasons to watch the games, but I watch none the less.
I have a marketing degree and have been selling things for a long time. The only way we are going to sell this at the level we all want it to be sold, is to believe in the product. I have been told that I can sell ice cubes to Eskimos, but that is not the case. If I don't think the ice cubes are good enough or what they need, I cannot sell them. I am afraid that we are headed that way with some of the comments I have read in the past few days. We need to believe in our product.
There is a ton of room for improvement in how we are displayed on TV. Do I want the job of doing it? No way. Can I offer sugestions, sure. I agree that the direction is better than it has been and that it must continue or we may fade away. That scares me. We need to stay united and remember that slow and steady wins the race. BASS has only been televised like this for two years. We will get there and I promise I will do all I can to help.
This post got real long, I am sorry for that. I hope I have cleary stated my position and not offended too many. I do love this game and Ii want to play it for a while longer. There have been some great ideas posted along this thread, let's hope the right eyes read them. | |
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| Sorry guys I really didn't intend for this thread to go this way but in all honesty weather fish are dead or alive won't matter if the production is done right! I don't think this is a case of "If you build it they will come" But rather a case of make me want it so bad it hurts! So the question is how do you do that?
Good Luck
Tyee | |
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Johnnie,
I couldn't agree with you more. For along time indy cars were the elite in racing, now it's nascar. How many people know who won the indy 500? Golf has always been on T.V., but why did it become so popular? Tiger Woods, and the marketing of Tiger Woods, same with nascar, it's the marketing of the sport
The powers to be have to find a way to make it more popular, and that takes money, alot of money. I think in the not to distant future, walleye fishing will become alot bigger. We just need someone to come forward with the dollars and get it on t.v. with better time slots and on primetime, Put the PWT championship on live t.v.
Eric | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | WOW,
Very interesting comments from many well informed people. I value the knowledge given and will attempt to give my take on the problems and solutions.
First, everyone is talking about the recent Bass Masters televised tournament. This speaks volumes. Take a good hard look on HOW that tournament was covered and then take a close hard look at how our tournaments are displayed to the masses. THEIR coverage is more interesting with more personal stories and they CREATE the drama needed for prime time television. IMHO almost all of the coverage that we receive is boring except to the die-hard fishermen that frequent sites like this one. They create the drama! They do interviews and look for interest stories that people care about. I do not see this when I watch the limited TV coverage that we receive.
I had an infrequent “day off” yesterday and I needed to re-energize the body batteries. I actually had a day to get caught up with emails, check out the web sites and watch a little TV while pretending that I was being a couch potato for a day. What amazed me was that ESPN had the 2005 “national” eating competition on for several hours. Can anyone tell that watching over weight people eat pasta for 3 hours is more interesting than watching a walleye tournament? I really do not think so. Some say (I used to say the same thing) that watching walleye fishermen use planer boards is boring. Then why do I keep seeing tournaments being covered on ESPN where all they do is troll for sailfish, blue marlin etc. Networks like ESPN have been covering these types of tournaments for years. I believe that it comes back to what I have said earlier. It’s how it is presented. With the right amount of money (you are right Steve) our tournaments can be as interesting as any bass tournament or Red Fish tournament. No one can convince me that demographics are better for Red Fish tournaments. How can that be possible? Yet I see more national coverage on their events then ours.
OLN seems to have more bull riding coverage than tournament fishing coverage. Can anyone tell me that more people ride bulls than walleye fish? Again, I think the answer is no. But, have you ever watched a bull riding show? They make it interesting by giving you behind the scene interviews, they make you want to learn more about the contestants and they create drama.
I think that you all get my point!
Look at all the events covered on ESPN or OLN and tell if they are more interesting to the masses than walleye tournament fishing. Then tell me that more people are interested in watching people: eat too much, watch people shoot billiards, bowl or learn about RV’s.
It’s all in the marketing!
We have the interest stories…… Hell, ever spend a day in the boat with Johnnie Candle? He’s a hoot, very articulate, is somewhat good looking  ……. What about the Gary Gray story? ……… When Gary comes back from health issues next season and kicks everyone’s butt, doesn’t that make our coverage interesting? What about his win at the casino? That’s not made for TV?
We need someone to step up to the plate and invest the time and MONEY into our tournaments. We have EVERYTHING right NOW that will make US interesting. Bass Fishing has nothing on us if we are presented correctly.
I think that Johnnie has it right when he says that we are our own worst enemies. As long as we continue to tell the world that we are second fiddle to the bass guys we are. As long as we bastardize (I think it’s okay to say this word since it’s in the Webster dictionary) ourselves to potential sponsors for a few T-shirts and hats, and as long as we portray ourselves as country pumpkins, we will never get the TV coverage that we deserve. Act like professionals, expect professional respect and promote the sport every chance you get and we will survive.
What we need is one or two MAJOR sponsors with REAL money to step up to the plate and invest in the prime time coverage that we deserve with the type of coverage that is made for prime time viewing. I agree that having more interesting activities surrounding the main event will help BUT it will not matter if it is not covered by the national media.
We are here, we are interesting, we are professional, people do respect what we do and many are hungry to hear our stories and learn how we put fish in the boat. It’s time to get the coverage that we deserve. Who is listening? Who will step forward to make it happen? Who amongst us will help promote us to the stature we are ready for? Forrest Woods of Ranger did it for the bass world any years ago. With today’s media it doesn’t have to take as long as it did for him and the bass community.
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Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Part II of my Thesis on Tournament Coverage
The PWT is still the top dog in Walleye Fishing coverage. This is good and bad. As mentioned before their major emphasis seems to be on promoting the In-Fish magazine and their sponsors. They do not produce (IMHO) the same caliber of made for TV coverage as BASS or the FLW. They need to go to the next level.
The FLW does a great job on covering the bass side of things but we only get the last 5 minutes of the show IF we have a major tourney. This does not help us. They do a great job of covering the championship but they need to do more to promote our sport the rest of the year.
Some say that we have too many tournaments now. I disagree! I think we need more but better organized tournaments. We need more “feeder” tournaments like the Red Man series that feeds and builds up the Majors. We need more recognized proving grounds for those coming up through the ranks. We have great local fishermen out there now but no one knows their names because our tournament circuits around the Midwest are not organized properly or build up to the big leagues.
We need more big name tournaments out there. Ranger has stepped up to the plate. Lowrance appears to be trying. Rumor had it last year that Brunswick was planning something. Having Brunswick produce a tournament series would be good news for all of us I think.
We need to promote our sponsors better but need their help. Those specially wrapped boats on Bass and the FLW look great. We need more of this type of promotion in our world. We all need to work together to make this happen.
We need to offer seminars to the newbies in our profession explaining the do’s and don’ts of how to promote themselves, their sponsors and how to get the word out about the value added in walleye tournament fishing.
We need the help of local media to promote the sport (as mentioned earlier). Why isn’t newspapers like the Milwaukee Journal covering the sport. Is anyone taking the time to contact them and let them know what is happening. I’ll guess no because they are perceived as the competition by those who are covering/sponsoring the sport now.
We need more within the rank and file to look, act and portray themselves as professionals. You are a professional 24-7, 365 days a year. Act like it, dress like it, walk the walk and talk the talk all year long, not just during a few tournaments a year.
Tournament promoters need to expect more from the participants, the local chambers and the media. Listening to some tournament directors, it sounds like they are happy if they get free rooms for themselves and they get the DNR permit.
We can all do more to promote the sport.
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| More camera's, helecopters and big productions take BIG money!!!!!!! Need to find a walleye enthusiast with deep pockets. I guess Irwin Jacobs qualifies but he's in competition with the PWT isn't he? So back to divided interests and pools of available money to take care of sentence 1. If walleye fishing is going to get the coverage it "desires", then a road that starts on the club and smaller cicuit level that leads to a pro level of competition that cumulates with ONE CHAMPIONSHIP of the top 50 anglers of that year and you might have something to compete with. (again, just my opinion)
I also do not think that there are enough guys like Johnnie, Keith K and the many others that work hard to make themselves significant outside the relm of walleye anglers. We had arguably the most fun chance to spend a day with these top guys and gals at our 3 Fish, Sticks and Stones events and couldn't get more then a handful of people to participate outside Dale Stroschein and my groups of close friends. "We would have had more poeple show up to meet Potsie and the Fonz" was a classic discussion with the group. Guys gave up valuable pre-fishing time to try and do something good and when we can't get draw an additional 40 people to help fill the event. Sunshine was there, Johnnie too. So was a list of great walleye anglers, but no "fans" to speak of. A strong, vocal, out-front charity "leg" of the PWT would go a long way to increase the significance of each and every angler who participates (IMHO) THAT, I feel, would go a long way to increasing the popularity and audinece. Not sure what the BASS people are doing but I know other professional sports have a very out front charity presence. Watch golf or football and look at the anount of commercial time is spent promoting it.
You have to admit, the coverage of the "Classic" was pretty cool. Didn't care or watch to see who won, but sure did spend a little time watching it. Mike Iconelli is fun towatch. The first time I fished in the MWC I used to do a break dance routine on the front of the boat too. But after a god fish, and being pretty excited, l threw a boot and it hit another angler, knocked him in the water and he almost drowned. Kaz told me to cut it out but I didn't get the message until I "spun" a 1/4 oz blue hair jig firmly in my glutious maximus. THAT cost me a half day of fishing and an interesting ride in 3 footers the next day.
I hope it gets figured out. It's deserving of the effort of so many talented walleye anglers to get the best available coverage, I personally hope it's the PWT that comes through. | |
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| I love walleye fishing, and am excited to be a participant in walleye tournaments. HOWEVER, I think we are putting the cart before the horse. In my opinion, tourney walleye fisherman have to earn the right to obtain bigger, more higher profile sponsors and dollars. I think that as a community of walleye fisherman, we have not earned that right, just yet. Suggestions such as "build it, they will come" is not real world. Thats like going to the bank and asking for a business loan, without a business plan. Saying BASS gets all the TV coverage and we don't is too self-centered. 30 years, plus or minus, of some level of organized BASS tournaments, plenty of mistakes and good fortunes have helped the bass community to where it is - they earned it. Thats like comparing the baseball skills of a 5 year kid (walleye tournaments) to a 20 year collegiate star (bass tournaments). Grass roots efforts is just that, grass roots. It takes hard work, perserverance, ON GOING effort and an ability to develop a plan where all parties win. When was the last time any of us obtained a sponsorship, and then acted like their is no more effort necessary to promote that sponsor? Thru the course of the summer, are you still as active with your sponsor as the you where in the springtime? What are you doing for your hard earned sponsorship here in the beginning of August? When was the last time any of us participated in an fishing event, for the good of the industry, without looking for that whats in it for me attitude? People personalities; there are many in the walleye world, just need to be unlocked under the right circumstances; which we have to earn. Lets look at the bigger picture, then develop a plan to get from where we are today - to that end goal. Wishing won't make it happen! Nor, being number 1 on the world walleye rating scale will not make it happen either. I realize their are some real genuine people in the walleye world who have paid their dues and are class acts. I just believe that fisherman (and tourney promoters) alike have to work consistently for their sponsors and this industry, for walleye tourneys to rise to the next level. | |
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Posts: 120
Location: Devils Lake, ND | Kim,
When I say "Build it and they will come" this is what I mean. Walleye fishing needs to move ahead, then have the sponsors come. It is the same way I had to get every one of my sponsors. Build it, show it, sell it. We may have to take a step backwards financially (organizers) to take a huge step forward later.
To answer some of you questions about working for sponsors and giving time away to better the sport, I may not be the right guy to ask. I am on the water nearly daily testing new stuff or refining old things. I have a dealer meeting this weekend to work for my boat sponsor. I have been to several photo shoots in the past month. Meetings to develop new products are just getting started for the off season.
I would hate to list all of the time I give to promote the sport of fishing. I will bet a year's pay that I give more time away than I get paid for. Doc's Golf Outings are a prime example. I drove from ND to Green Bay to participate and got not one nickle in return, nor would I ever ask for one.
Kim, there are enough guys out there doing it right, the problem lies with the man at the switch. I don't even know who this man is. We can speculate...tournament directors...large publishing corporations...Irwin...who really knows. It may be time that we quit relying on someone else to create our destiny, and create our own.
The problem that arises then, is the circle starts over. In the bginning the new person in charge will look out for everyone's best interest, but as time goes on they too will look out for themselves. I do believe it was in George Orwells story Animal Farm where the pigs began to walk on their hind legs, making them just like the humans they once despised.
We will have to go through this cycle many times, much as BASS has had to. ESPN will most likely not be the last stage of the BASS, nor will Primedia be the last stage of the PWT.
Let's just hope we all get to enjoy the growth and live to see it get better. | |
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Location: Rockford MN | Here it is in a nut shell! Bass showed us how to to it without going though the growing pains! Just like the other sports or events, if it's marketed right to start it will become popular! Golf is the best example, it's pretty boring to watch but they make it interesting by jumping from guy to guy and keeping the leaderboard up so you always know how you're guy is doing! I don't care how long walleye tournaments have been around, Redfish get more and better coverage than we do and it's because of TV! Marketing Sponsors is MUCH easier when you can do it on TV than at a weigh-in with 100 people there!
The fact that walleye tournament fishing has not been around as long as Bass holds no weight anymore in this day and age! So if you build it they will come! Market the product like bass and I'll bet they would have the veiwers and the sponsors!
In no way is this to say that Bass has not gotten what they deserve, just the ground work on there success is already laid out for the walleye world to take from! | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Walleye competitive angling is about 20 years old. That's the reality of it, the MWC was really the first trail out there that was 'made to order' promotionally designed. The MWC was put together by a few progressive companies who wanted to see the sport grow, and guess who was at the helm; Jim Kalkofen. We built the MWC to the number one team circuit, a title still held by the MWC today.
The PWT was developed by In Fisherman, again with the helm work by Jim Kalkofen. The format was focused on the Pro and alternating Co anglers, placing the center of attention squarely on the very people you folks are concerned about. I just watched the 2004 PWT video again the other night because of an inane statement I saw elsewhere and a fellow who answered that statement with a play by play. Made me go get mine out of the rack and watch it again, just to see who was right. Here was the format:
Opens with announcer talking about the upcoming event. Goes to MC Jim O'Rourke, describing the area with a cool 3 D representation of the water. To the Director, Charlie Moore, for a day one on the water update, featuring anglers across the board; every boat brand, every engine brand, action shots of fish coming into the net, close-ups of the anglers, commentary on the water. To Jim Kalkofen somewhere else on the water, same deal. Quality video, high impact and absolutely saturated with Pro exposure. Weigh in, get the story about the top teams and interviews with a couple of the leaders.
Day two, same lead in but focused on conditions and the bite, interviews before ceremonies with the leaders, on the water coverage of those in the lead and those who are doing well enough to sneak up on the leaders, excellent on the water coverage of anglers who are NOT in contention, CM and JK with camera crews cruising the lake looking for the action shots and getting them. Weigh in interviews and loading the fish in the baskets, lots of multibrand shots, nice stuff. Some drama on the stage, well done IMHO, then interviews with the day two leader, etc. Day three, the top couple teams have camera crews in the boat all day, Excellent footage of the action, with other film of the Pros who have a shot at the win. On to the weigh in, drama at the dock, baskets of 'eyes, excited Pros, to the hold backs and amount needed to win...."Does he have enough? Hit that scale! YES!!!" and the winner freaks out, grabs the trophy, and holds it in the air. Turning Point wrap up interview as to when the winner felt the event began to really go his way. In the middle, there is a selected angler Pro-File. Todd Frank, Bill Ortiz, etc. Nice stuff, gets the public up close and personal to a Pro and what it takes to make this so for that particular personality.
This isn't a championship, it's a qualifier. It IS on TV, and the video is top shelf. The entire promotional angle is on the PRO and the Co, not anywhere else. This is well done beautifully produced television and video, so I don't feel this is the issue.
Keep in mind in the case of the Classic this was the Championship, and IMHO the live coverage made the show. They had 8 hours to hype like madmen while the anglers were on the water; they had to fill that time with something, so there was alot of time to really get down to detail and show the break dances, personalities, and much more. ESPN paid over 50 million dollars for BASS so they HAD BETTER create the atmosphere that will command a good return on investment. ESPN owns it's own networks, airs it's own shows, has it's own crews, equipment, and deep, deep pockets. ESPN has the luxury of already owning LOTS of programming slots to place in the prime time if they want.
I don't see FLW ( Irwin Jacobs, by the way) or the PWT doing anything like this in the immediate future, the cost would be absolutely off the map and return on investment highly questionable. ESPN has all of that synergy already built in, they are made-to-order perfectly suited to do what they did with the Classic, and they OWN the thing. The PWT and FLW do a very good job filming and producing the shows and videos, so that isn't the issue. The issue, IMHO, is heavily hyped LIVE coverage on a major network driven by a circuit Championship that is established already as THE SHOW for a sport that has had much more time to develop nationwide venues, sponsor support, and media coverage across the spectrum. The Classic was even featured on the Weather Channel!
SO, what's the key to getting the coverage live on a major network? IMHO, and I mean humble opinion: Progress, open new markets across the country, take competitive walleye events to areas that have never hosted this sort of thing and make competitive walleye fishing a more of a national interest. Develop those new markets and debunk the old stigma that walleye fishing is regional to the midwest, which of course isn't true. Keep growing competitive walleye angling as a professional sport, and if you are a Pro hope to all hopes that both FLW and PWT stick with it as things develop. This business has grown tremendously in 20 years, and is poised to grow at an accelerated rate over the next few years.
This aint BASS, at least not yet, and Primedia and Genmar aint ESPN. Both FLW and PWT have seasoned, talented veteran directors and top shelf Executive directors, and both have excellent event staff onsite. Both run an extremely media friendly tournament. Both have expanded their reach to new markets. Both have a goal of growing the sport. They are doing this right, IMHO, but we are impatient and want walleye to magically be where bass is because ESPN created a really cool program surrounding the Classic. ESPN CREATED A REALLY COOL PROGRAM, NOT BASS, NOT THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE BASSMASTERS CLASSIC, NOT THE TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR------ ESPN!! One event, not all the qualifiers, the Classic. But wait, how many productions like the recent ESPN coverage of the Bassmaster's Classic have been aired? Two? The level of coverage has NEVER been that good, so as a friend of mine says......this is a process, not an event.
As media, as Pros, and as Co Anglers, we need to join forces and work with the organizations that have built the stage we film, photograph, and walk across with the basket of 'eyes. That's what the bass world did, and at least one circuit became so attractive a monster media company bought it. There's a model there, albeit somewhat different because of the scope of bass fishing in general. | |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Joel "Doc" Kunz - 8/2/2005 2:52 PM
More camera's, helecopters and big productions take BIG money!!!!!!! Need to find a walleye enthusiast with deep pockets. I guess Irwin Jacobs qualifies but he's in competition with the PWT isn't he? So back to divided interests and pools of available money to take care of sentence 1. If walleye fishing is going to get the coverage it "desires", then a road that starts on the club and smaller cicuit level that leads to a pro level of competition that cumulates with ONE CHAMPIONSHIP of the top 50 anglers of that year and you might have something to compete with. (again, just my opinion)
Doc is right.
We seem to have just to many (split divisions) in the sport. You can be a champion on one tourney circuit looking at fisherman of the year, and a dud at the bottom of another if you occassionally decide to jump into other devisions. If all the resources were going into one coffer to benefit and promote walleye tourneys as a whole, it would have to get both bigger and better out of plan numbers as much as neccessity. And I've always held more respect and been a bigger loyal fan of the guys who I know have come up through the ranks and paid their small tourney dues. | |
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| Thanks Dan, as you said >>If all the resources were going into one coffer to benefit and promote walleye tourneys as a whole, it would have to get both bigger and better out of plan numbers as much as neccessity. And I've always held more respect and been a bigger loyal fan of the guys who I know have come up through the ranks and paid their small tourney dues.
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I also feel that starting the PWT on the club level, working towards state and regional events gives anglers a chance to learn to compete at a younger age and in the long run breeds professionalism. A sense of additional pride would come in to play when, for instance, a fellow member of the "Lighthouse Anglers Club" wins something. As the mentioned club does, good clubs will be active on their home body of water, raise funds and awareness and be the starting grounds. Determine what promoter meets the requirements to organize state club competitions and find another one (if you need to) to run the next level. Could the RCL and PWT find a middle ground and let one (sat the RCL?) have the large state or regional competitions and the PWT run a schedule of "top 150 events" and a PWT Championship? Sure would be nice to see the best of the best battle it out for the big money. With two top money championships, to me it's like 2 kids trying to eat the same piece of pie.
In the long run it would make every angler interested in competative walleye fishing more involved and boost the roots of walleye angling by bolstering club membership. IMHO
Steve, very well said.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 8/7/2005 6:33 PM
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Tournament fishing....How to make it more popular