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Location: Appleton | 2006 MWS Midwest Walleye Series
Upper Lake Winnebago System April 30, 2006
Oshkosh, Wisconsin
Bay of Green Bay May 21, 2006
Green Bay, Wisconsin
Entire Winnebago System August 27, 2006
Oshkosh, Wisconsin
Bay of Green Bay September 10, 2006
Menominee, Michigan
CHAMPIONSHIP TOP TWENTY FIVE TEAMS
Bay of Green Bay October 7, 2006
Menominee, Michigan
I have also included the dates for the Fleet Farm Walleye Open
Fleet Farm Walleye Open
Entire Winnebago System August 5 & 6, 2006
Oshkosh, Wisconsin
If you would like an entry form mailed e-mail [email protected] your name and address and we will mail one when they are available.
Thanks
Jim Coon
Edited by Jim Coon 12/14/2005 4:19 PM
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| I'll be seeing you all there next year. Bago will be a tough one in August! |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | My prediction: you will lose alot of entries by going to Winnebago in August instead of Bay de Noc in early September. Just my opinion. |
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| Like the schedule other than the last date, confilcts with the MWC central division. I'm sure I'll see ya again for atleast one event. |
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| I'm not bashing at all, but i personally would like to see a more diverse schedule that goes to different places more often. Petenwell, castle rock, shawno lake, madison chain are some places i'd like to see just to mix things up a bit. Anybody else have any suggestions? |
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| 'Bago in August separates the men from the boys. Love it!!!! Let's git it onnnnnnnn.
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| The last tournament and the championship are the same dates as the MWC.
Can't be in two places at once.
Sure would like to keep fishing them all !!
Good luck. You run a great circuit, Hope to be back in 07
Schmitty |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | I know the schedule has changed and another thread has started since this one with an updated schedule, but I would like to start a conversation about the sense or lack of sense involved in making this circuit fish Lake Winnebago in late August.
I was at a walleye club Christmas party and, to all who were polled, they are disappointed that the Bay de Noc event has been replaced by an event in late summer on Winnebago. I later was told that this is being done to keep a few whiners happy about travelling to the U.P., and that one of the complainers drove to LBDN last year, looked at the water, and left because he and his partner were intimidated by the size of the water. I think the basis for this decision was poorly done and should be revisited.
As for comments like fishing 'Bago in August will separate the men from the boys: if you find winning an event with 4-5 lbs manly then you are grossly mistaken. This same walleye club held an event there last August and 4 legal walleyes were caught between 21 boats. And there are some well established good sticks in this club to boot.
I encourage Jim Coons and staff to rethink their decision to fish Winnebago in August and come up with some new water if LBDN is too far and too intimidating for the members of this circuit to fish. |
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| I totally agree with the new water part. I think going to new waters will not only attract more anglers, but be much more of a challenge than just going to the same places at the same times every year. Just my $.02 |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Careful Jerry! The last time I suggested a similar scenario it was construed as blasphemy. I was told that I may have out grown the local circuits and it was time to move along to the national circuits.
I AGREE with you, even if some “local” anglers perceive it as sacrilege.
Thanks for sticking your neck out. Now there are two of us with a target on out chest.
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Location: Appleton | Well I will try to answer this concern.
First of all I do not know about a team that decided not to fish after looking at the big water of BDN. Secondly Mileage had nothing to do with the decision.
THE MAIN PART OF THE DECISION WAS NUMBERS. We were up in all our tournaments except BDN. This tournament actually went down this year??
I had put a posting on this board looking for suggestions. The one that I got more e-mails and phone calls was to do another Winnebago. Also these were not all locals but from people that will have to travel to fish Winnebago even some out of state. Second was Madison area which I am reseaching. Third was either Castle Rock or Petenwell both would be CATCH AND KILL tournam,ents. As I have always said myself and the TFM staff want your input to make the MWS grow. We took the input we had and made the decision to do two on Winnebago. Also we are looking for some new waters to fish and are open to suggestions.
Happy Holidays from the TFM Crew and myselff
Jim Coon
Edited by Jim Coon 12/11/2005 9:46 PM
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| Petenwell in september would not have to be a catch and kill tournament, if it were an option to have a tournament that late. As far as other options, Shawno lake, Petenwell as mentioned, in early may, madison chain, and this might not be as popular but some northern wisconsin lakes, the ones you can not troll on, maybe minoqua chain. I would really like to see tournaments at not so usual locations, to me this makes it all the more fun, please everyone put forth your input!!!!! |
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| Jerry, You have good points regarding where to go, but let's use more than just this last summer for results, whaddaya say? 2 years ago the biggest weights of the year were posted in the month of August (Ranger Fleet Farm open), not June, when most people like to fish 'Bago. Let's face it we can't have tournies where everone catchs 20-30#'s every day they go out to compete.......Because then it would be called Catching tournaments and not Fishing tournaments. You having fished the PWT and seeing/knowing of some of the "tough" bites the pro's fished this last year should appreciate this as well as any other season tournametn fisherman.
I'm all in favor of new water, but let's not balk to loud regrading the schedule. Misery usually enjoys company. We should be happy that we have a "local" series as well run as the MWS.
Hope the club X-mas party was a "hoot". Sorry I couldn't be there due to other commitments.
Good luck |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Jayman,
Two years ago I fished the Merc and it took nearly 40 lbs to win, not to mention the heavy weights it took to take home a check. Pat and I took 40th I believe and our 2 day weight was around 24 lbs. I cannot recall a Mills Fleet Farm Open where ANYONE has ever weighed more than 30 lbs to win. So I am doubting your claim of a better bite in August than June. However, that is not my point.
My point is this: there are a few people who, for whatever reason, are either intimidated by the size of the water at LBDN (I do not plan to use names but I do know for 100% fact that they exist) or they choose to not fish LBDN because it's not at their doorstep. These people are, unfortunately, being catered to. They have too much influence with the tournament director and his committee. For all I know they are the tournament committee. I find this approach disappointing.
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| Jerry,
Mill Fleet Farm open took 39.46 # to win in 2004....it WAS the highest weight for any 2 day tourney for the year. The point is relevant because your original post question the results of this pass summers fishing and why the MWS has scheduled an event there.
Secondly, Why the strong desire to have a tournament at LBDN? I've seen you on more than one occasion root for any and all tournaments on Green bay. It appears that you didn't fish a single MWS event last year, so why the strong opinion on where it goes? Will that be the sole reason to your decision making? I would hope not.
As Jim stated they are open to suggestions, I personally don't mind either location. I am alwasy interested in new waters. I think there are lot of options besides LBDN. I could list plenty but I think most of us could.
As far as catering to who and where, I think Jim's answer is more than satisfactory that they chose where based on numbers. Similar to the MWC, they have thier strongholds on certain bodies of water. And should continue to fish them based on good "business decisions", good meaning, good numbers of participants at events.
Good Luck
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Hold on Jerry,
Although I agree with you about the August date………….
Your target is getting bigger and I want to get out of the way  .
I take exception to your comment: “They have too much influence with the tournament director and his committee. For all I know they are the tournament committee.”
I am a member of the advisory committee and I agree with you.
Obviously “we” do not have as much influence as you think ? I can recall Jim Coon asking for input and feedback but we never make any final decisions, we are only advisory in nature thus the name.
I’ll stick up for Jim on this one also. Even though I do not agree with his decisions on this matter I know that he listens very carefully to all sides and all tournament people. He can not please all of us all of the time. My guess is that he looks at the demographics of the people that he serves and sees a large amount of participants in hat geographical area. He also sees registration numbers going up every time he visits Bago. I’d guess that it is purely a business decision based on economics. Again, I may not like it but I feel Jim does a great job listening to our input and doing the best he can.
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| Jerry, FYI.
TFM Promotions Ltd. proudly presents the
2004 Fleet Farm Open
Final Standings
(Top 147 Teams)
Place Name City , State Team Number Total Weight
1 Del Zerbe Dave Zerbe St. Germain, WI Oshkosh, WI 126 39.46
Now, these guys ran away with this tourney, as second place weighed about 27 pounds. But it just shows to go ya, there can be a very good bite on Bago in August. I doubt there is a more consistant bite in August than in June, but we'll just have to fish it and see how it shakes out. And it's not like they have been lighting it up at LBDN. 20 lbs to win this year, with 46 teams out of how many weighing fish? I would hate to think that the size of the water is the factor, as we get good turnouts for Green Bay, and Marinette, and the boundaries certainly result in water at least as large as LBDN.
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Location: Appleton | Here are the winning weights for 2002 through 2004 for the the Mercury National and Fleet Farm winners.
2002 Mercury National winning weight 41.10# 2002 Fleet Fam winning weight 29.78#
2003 Mercury National winning weight 38.00# 2003 Fleet Farm winning weight 27.24#
2004 Mercury National winning weight 36.00# 2004 Fleet Farm winning weight 39.46#
As you can see in 2004 the winning weight for Fleet Farm was higher than Mercury. Also if you look at these three years Fleet Farm was about the same for 2002 & 2003 and up for 2004. At the same time Mercury weights went down from 2002 to 2004.
As to the committee making the desisions this was not the case. The decision was made by Ray and myself. We made the desision based on the comments from anglers both who have fished and have talked about fishing. As I said in an earlier post we try to do what the the anglers have suggested. The majority of suggestions were a second Winnebago so we felt we would do what the MAJORITY requested. In my opinoion if we did not listen to the majority then we were going away from what we have tried to accomplish, which was to listen to angler input.
Again we are open to suggestions and have some different waters as possible waters for 2007 but some details still need to be finalized.
Botton line numbers were down at Bay de Noc and we felt we had to react.
Thanks
Jim Coon |
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| Jerry did you fish the mws at LBDN last year? Maybe if you and your whinnie friends would have fished it jim would have returned there again? |
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Location: Berlin | No problem here Jim. If it were up to me and about 300 other teams, the entire circuit would be on bago. Have an event every month. Then we would find the REAL local talent.
On a side note, tiny weights as well as huge weights do not seperate the men from the boys. It is the tournaments in that 15lb per day range that does. Anybody can get lucky and hook a monster during a tough bite and anybody can drive a boat around and catch huge hungry females when the bite is on. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Okay Jim,
You convinced me that at the beginning of August we can expect 14-15 pounds a day. Unfortunately, I still have a bad taste in my mouth from when we held the MWS championship on Bago in 2004. This was about the first week in September (if my memory is correct), a much closer date to the proposed tournament there in 06. The winning weight was 6.62 pounds down to 3.6 pounds for 6th place The total weight from all 25 boats was a mere 37.72 Lbs. And the total number of fish caught was 26.
IMHO, this compares apples to apples a little better than the previous comparisons as far as dates go. Anyone else have results from tournaments that were run in late August? |
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Location: Appleton | Dennis
The Championship was the first week of October.
Jim Coon |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | oops......... me bad
Well................. never mind then ................ |
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Location: McFarland, WI | If there are 300 teams entering I better get an application early. There are walleyes in the bago system and now we just have to figure out how to catch them. Trolling has never been the ticket for me in August so I may have to get the jigging rods back out. I don't expect to catch the 10 lb fish that we often encounter in the bay but I'll still have fun and I expect to learn something from the rest of you. Right now I'm just looking forward to the nice weather-must be getting old.
Jim: Thanks for your efforts, now I know why you make the big bucks.
Larry Strelow
McFarland, WI
Edited by Larrys 12/12/2005 1:22 PM
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | New at the game,
No whining here. Just trying to start a converstion on what I feel is an injustice. As for why I didn't fish the event....I had surgery Sept 1st otherwise I would have been there. In fact, due to work and health problems I missed the entire MWS schedule last year. Regardles of that, I am still entitled to my opinion as are others.
Sunshine: Thanks for pointing out the responsibility of the advisory committee and their role in the organization.
The fact remains that the bite, regardless of how much the winner had in the listed events, is still 2-3 times or more better in June and the event, IN MY OPINION, will suffer if it's ran in August. It doesn't take an Einstein to write high winner totals to slant an opinion and mine's not changing. What did the 30th place team have for the Fleet Farm events and how does that compare to the Merc?
As for the bullseye: SHOOT STRAIGHT AND SHOOT OFTEN!!! I INVITE IT!!! |
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Location: Appleton | Einstein looked up the 30th place totals for the 2004 events Mercury National TWELVE fish 23.22# average fish 1.83# Fleet Farm TEN fish 15.84# average fish 1.59#. Neitherr team weighed a big fish. Also Mercury National has 300 teams and Fleet Farm has 150 teams. With a limit of two more fish and twice the teams fishing IS THIS A FAIR COMPARISON? Botton line if someone wants to compare weights they are all on our web Page wwwifishtfm.com
My only question at this point is what is the injustice if we are doing what the majority asked us to do? Where is the injustice??
Jim (Einstein) Coon
Edited by Jim Coon 12/12/2005 3:58 PM
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Jim, or in this case, Einstein....LOL....
Injustice......bad choice of words on my part. I apologize for that. I was typing my response as I was getting out of work and rushed through it without proofing it.
Let me say this Jim: Pat Schuette and I, along with some of our other friends and partners, have discussed the great job you and your staff do with this circuit. We have nothing but compliments for you. We feel you and your staff have the most organized and best run mid-level circuit in walleye fishing. My opinion is based solely on the fact that Bay de Noc is probably my favorite place to fish and given the success I've enjoyed there I am disappointed that you will not be going back. This opinion of mine led to a conversation with a number of fellow tournament fisherman over the weekend and each feels the same way I do. That is why I have brought this subject up again. I still feel that going to Winnebago in August and omitting Bay de Noc in September will not lead to more entries. If I had to give you a reason for less entries for the final event it would be because most feel they do not have a chance to make the championship, not to mention those that are intimidated by the amount of water and those who wish to fish out of their backyard. Only time will tell if I am wrong and, if I am, it won't be the first time and it definitely won't be the last.
Edited by jerry 12/12/2005 4:46 PM
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Jerry,
I agree with what you and Sunshine are saying, I don't fish the MWS, but as a tournament fisherman I would personally like to fish different water. I too heard that some of the competitors were intimidated with the size of the water.
From Jim's point of view, I do think you will see more anglers fish a bago tournament than a LBDN tournament. As a tournament director that is what he needs to have more competitors. You have to remember that the MWS is a smaller circuit, not a national one, like the PWT. you are used to the bigger water, I can say the first time I went to G.B. I was intimidated by it. As I said I have never fished the MWS, but I would think the competitors don't have the big tournament rigs, that can handle the bigger water.
New to the game, as far as what you said, about these guys whinning, Jerry and Sunshine are two of the best fisherman that frequent this site. They are just voicing their concerns, and trying to make the MWS a better circuit. The first letter in MWS stands for Midwest, not bago.
Eric |
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| Reply from a sportsman, without the financial means to fullfill the burning need of competition and learning ability except through sites like this! (for what its worth)
Weight means NOTHING (in my simple mind) except to the one with the most, be it 2 pounds or 20. The promoters of the tournamnet world need to find ways to gain interest (profit)and attract new people, without the need of massive weights as the main issue in their events. Massive weights show a negative socialogical impact to the industry (at this time anyway.)
BASS is going to new waters, FLW is going to gain many "NEW" people from the Federation The PWT is choosing new waters every year. They are all spreading their wings.
It seems to me that the platform for this series has been established with a good reputation although I don't think it is established enough to gain more competitors in other areas of the midwest as their name implies is it? Travel (and this sport) is expensive and will only knock out the "little" guy.
Many people that fish Otterstreet (fills the first day) also fish this circuit don't they? This gives them another avenue that is not as expensive as the PWT or FLW. Which can be pretty intimidating with those great sticks. Could it be that it's time for a few of you to spread your wings?
I agree with what Jerry is saying and I know there are others with the same opinion, I also felt that way at one time. I also agree with many of the other views. Haven't there been a number of discussions lately about growing this sport and how it could be done?
A sound business plan not only includes your existing customers, it also includes taking away business from the competition. And the most often overlooked part of a successful business plan is finding NEW business which is often the most expensive and time consuming part but can yield great rewards in the long run. You will NOT survive without getting new customers.
As a non competitor it disturbs me to see "pros" discuss massive weights as a reason to fish an event.
Could it be that fishing Bago in August may be the right decission at this time for both the promoter and the customer as well as the sport? No doubt they will have to expand to other areas to grow, but are they ready to take those risks?
Just a few thoughts,
Good luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 12/12/2005 7:22 PM
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| Sometimes it is about show, people who go to weigh-ins don't want to see 1-2 fish limits, and LBD does tend to have its show quality fish, It is of my opinion (just my 2 cents) if you are meant to win it will be no matter where it is held. every one says 80% skill 20% luck but I think sometimes there is a lot more to it than that.
As stated earlier it is nice to get big weight at a tourney. But it is also hard for a promoter to run tournaments and make decisions that keep everyone happy, without promoters there are no tournaments, Jim runs a class act. It is very hard to keep all happy. |
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Location: Appleton wi | My question is why have a tourny at a location when almost everyone traveled 30-50plus miles away from the site to there spots?There is no good bite in lbdn at that time of year. Thats why the first 23 boats all went south to cedar river and atleast another 15 boats behind us all followed so 75% fields all went 40miles south. How about a sturgeon bay or oconto in sept would seem to make more sense. .01$ worth. :-O.
Edited by eye Lunker 12/13/2005 9:43 AM
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | I'm not going to disclose the where's and how far's of my favorite spots on Bay de Noc, but I will say that I've never had to burn more than 10 gallons to get there and back. Two teams that were DQ'd last year with winning weights were not far from the launch. If one is traveling 50 miles one way to find fish they're driving by alot of great water.
As for an Oconto or Sturgeon Bay event at that time......looks like you got your wish. Should be a good bit and a great tourney.
Tyee - I agree with alot of what you ar saying except for the good bite to have a good tourney part. As a tournament fisherman, when I check out to see how others did at an event the first thing out of their mouths wil be how good or bad the bite was. Whether you or others agree or not, alot of tourney guys base a good tourney on how good the bite is. The commonly used phrase is "The bite here sucks....I don't know why we keep coming back here". Good bites bring more fisherman to the event.
Edited by jerry 12/13/2005 10:00 AM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Tyee,
Please explain your comment about:
Massive weights show a negative sociological impact to the industry (at this time anyway.)
What industry? Sociological impact from who?
Doesn’t big weights at the weigh-in help to promote the tourist industry in that area? Wouldn’t more people come to that area if they see the potential? Doesn’t the bait shops, restaurants, and motels benefit?
Doesn’t the sponsors benefit with increased sales of the proven equipment used to get those big weights?
Doesn’t the promoter of the circuit benefit with increased participation the following year?
So who feels bad? Who gets mad?
Are you talking about the local fishermen or lake property owners who would prefer to keep their home lake to them selves and are worried that the increased publicity of their lake harms their chances of doing well in the future? Or they are worried about longer lines at their boat launch?
Are you saying that every time tournament participants bring in big weights we are looked at negatively? By who and why?
Inquisitive minds want to know. Maybe your comments and other reactions to your post or this one require a separate thread so we do not sabotage this one.
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| Like I said, LBDN wasn't exactly a great bite the past couple years. Bigger weight than Bago in August, perhaps. But there have been some decent weights the past couple years in August from Bago. Besides that, there will be more than just a trolling presentation available. We'll get plenty of trolling hours in at the two other Green Bay events.
For the record, I suggested we fish the Madison Chain, or somewhere else than Bago, or Petenwell.
How about considering Castle Rock, the Wausau area, Du Bay, Wissota, Mississippi at Red Wing, LaCrosse, or Genoa. How about the Milwaukee River? |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | IMHO you will be disappointed in Wissota. I have been fishing it for years and feel that it doesn't have the population you are looking for. If you're going that far, you might as well travel another hour to 1 1/2 hours and work closer to Hayward.
The Milwaukee River? There ya' go, now we have an answer that would allow me to be the "local"   Just kidding just like Shep, maybe in 10 years from now. |
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Location: Combined Locks, WI | Like I said earlier on a differnt MWS post, I don't mind events on Green Bay as long as they aren't held out of Green Bay when the bite is on Chambers or held in Menominee when the bite is on the lower Bay. We all know where the fish would generally be at certain times of the year so why hold events at locations that always call for us making long runs. Not all of us have 20Ft boats with 225's on them.
Winnebago gets beat up with enough tournaments each year but the opening weekend event on the Winnebago is perfect. Like Sunshine said it is becoming tradition. It's like the MWS's version of Spring Valley.
Here are some other options that I suggested earlier: Spring Valley, Petenwell, Lake Wisconsin, Lake Gogebic, Mississippi River, Wisconsin River. I still think this series would be making a smart choice by putting in a river event.
I have never fished the complete MWS before, only 1 here 1 there, but in 2006 I will be doing 3 for sure if not all 4. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | The discussion really involves two issues:
1) Replacing the “usual” September Bay de Noc event with an August Bago event,
2) Fishing somewhere other than the Bay or Bago.
First the BdN/Bago issue, Jim stated that the location was changed in hopes of getting more entrants and the numbers at the BdN event have dropped over past years. Here are some possible reasons (In my opinion), which may explain the drop in numbers last year. 1) The BdN event was the last event in the series last year and teams that thought they couldn’t make the championship decided not to fish it. 2) The price of gas. 3) The weather, the wind for the Menominee event made that a rough event on fisherman and equipment. The wind at the Escanaba event wasn’t much better or different. Hence the intimidation discussion above.
Here are some possible reasons (In my opinion), which may boost the numbers at the Bago event. 1) It is the third event and teams that want to make the championship need to fish it. 2) There are a lot of fishermen around the Lake Winnebago system; it may just be a numbers thing.
Second fishing somewhere other than the Bay or Bago, again in my opinion, if the goal is to increase entrants it will be hard to find a location that will do it. TFM use to run an event on Petenwell in the spring (2002 was the last time), if the numbers were good they still might. In 2003 the MWS went to the Minocqua chain, 28 boats caught fish, it doesn’t say how many boats fished the event. Now there have been other locations suggested but I don’t know if those will achieve the goal of increasing entrants.
We will be fishing all four events next year no matter if there is an August Bago event or a September BdN event. All I can say is our team will have fewer expenses if it’s a Bago event versus BdN event.
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| Dennis you know me, I just throwin out the comments regarding the industry "competative angling" that is as I see it.
Many times I have heard how hard it is to grow the sport and directors take the brunt of that responsibility these days at least in the Walleye world. So if they don't keep growing they will not survive.
As for the comment about massive weights being negative, let me offer this for thought. The industry has grown exponentially over the past few years and this industry keeps comparing itself to the Bass World. There always are those that claim dragging around all those big fish all day and weighing them later hurt the populations. (weather true or not, This is a greater number than most think).
There is currently a huge study going on in WI regarding "culling" and "bass" tournament perception in general along with the economic impact.
No it hasn't been "proven as of yet, that culling is a negative or that the socialogical part is a negative or even that economically its a negative. (This will be released next year). I might be wrong but I think you will see that there is a large percentage of anglers that percieve tournaments as a negative impact in all three of those categories here in WI.
We all know that tournament anglers do much more for the industry and the resource than often are given credit for.
..Our DNR will have to adapt but untill they start managing the resource for the torunament anglers I will stand behind that comment.
Whats the difference if one fish or 1000 are caught? Won't the better angler still win?
I think TFM made a very good decission both economically and for the industry! With that said,,, growing the sport without "Massive Weights" is in the best interest of everyone involved, like it or not!
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 12/14/2005 1:39 PM
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2006 MWS Midwest Walleye Series Schedule