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Member
Posts: 56
| Has the World Walleye Rankings methodology been updated? The following note has been posted by WF on the WWR page on this site:
First, read our document "About the WWR", then submit any suggestions or question to [email protected].
Updates:
The WWR Ranking formula and methodology has been updated to accommodate the new PWT Super Pro and Regional formats, incorporating strength of field as part of the "per-tournament" point assignment process
I tried to find the "About the WWR" document on this site and I've been unable to find it. I'm curious to know how the methodology has been changed to factor in the new PWT Super Pro/Regional format. Is this "strength of field" factor applied to calculating the performance of the FLW Tour anglers as well? Also, what happened to Tom Kemos?
Jim Carroll NPAA #13 |
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| I would find it impossible to rank a field based on strength. How can you rank a field that may have 20 local guides or "Pros" that are only fishing there home waters? The ranking system is set up for fans so they can watch how the guys they follow are doing. The way it looks to me is you are ranked higher based on how many money money finishes you get, and are ranked lower based on how poorly you did. With 2 tours and now this new format from the PWT, it has to be hard to figure out! Who's to say one tour has better fishermen than the other? If this new "Super Pro" tours guys are the best of the best how come they don't win every FLW event?
The whole ranking thing is kinda cool for the fans! I would'nt want to field all the e-mails and calls from "Pros" who think they should be ranked higher! Maybe they should just back it down to the top 25 anglers? Thats what we want to know anyways. The top 25 out of the 200 or so guys fishing the tours. |
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| If this new "Super Pro" tours guys are the best of the best how come they don't win every FLW event?
Because not all of them fish the FLW...in fact many don't because of their equipment preferences in makes no sense to. But make no mistake, the reason they are in the Super Pro's is because most have fished many tournaments against all comers and have consistantly been close to the top. |
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| You are right only about half of them fish both! So how do you rank them? I mean if the other half have never fished or don't fish the FLW how can you rank them against non-open fields? See it's a 2 way street! |
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| It's actually pretty funny that you are infering that the PWT tour is a non-open field. The Super Pros earned their way in and all anglers who wanted to fish the PWT to get to that level were never restricted in equipment preference...the only thing that the PWT asked was that you establish a track record with their tour and you could be considered as a competitor. Hard work and good finishes assured that you could fish the tour and have a chance at establishing enough of a record that you could be considered in a Super Pro Ranking. The FLW on the other hand has a long history of banning fishermen's sponsors on stage and for the most part making it very difficult for anyone who prefered another companies product to participate. In the early years you couldn't even get in if you didn't run the right boat. They still design it so that if you run a Ranger, G3, or Polar Craft and the right engines that you'll get major preference and money. That's great and has definately helped to grow the sport, but to infer that the PWT is totally non open and the FLW is open is very misleading. The FLW has a great crew of anglers, but the vast majority do not have the track record in the sport and in many cases are just good fishermen who own the right boat. I find it interesting that there is so much animosity towards the PWT fishermen when someone infers that they might have some better anglers, and that the strength of field is the same as the FLW. The difference is that one tour is and has always been open (you're in the Super Pro if you earn it) and the other tour is a very large boat owners tour. |
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| Thats not what I said at all! I said that the PWT IS NOT an open tour. Meaning you can not just go in and fish 1 event. The fank and file have done everything in thier power to insure that. You are still getting off the topic and just defending 1 tour. The topic is rankings.......... How can anyone rank an open tour to an open tour? Just because someone picks to fish 1 tour over another does'nt mean that they are somehow better.
The BS that somehow you have to earn your way on the PWT is a fraud! You have to get a few people to except you thats all! I know guys that DO NOT have a track record of anything that have been excepted-NO PRO tour experence at all just some local events on small tours. Half the guys from my State alone I never heard of or remember fishing against, know why because when I go back through the lists they finished in the bottom third of the field. On the PWT alot has to do with who you know- thats why I say it's not an open field. You may disagree and thats fine but on the other side of the coin anyone can apply and fish any FLW event 1 or all. You cant say that about the PWT or maybe you can now that they do not have full fields???? Only time will tell, it's just hard to say that the only guys that should be ranked are fishing fishing the PWT super pro- because in the real world they have only been fishing against each other and NOT every comer as you said. |
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| There are grounds to fight on both sides of this subject. I know guys that fish in both of these circuits. And as I see there is no way you can say one is better then the other when it comes to rankings. I do believe they are both good at fishing. But I can say that the one (boat owner) FLW fisher doesn't need to get info from anyone else unlike the other I know in the PWT (SUPER PRO), that does so. Now with that on the plate lets just say that maybe they need to go out and take the top 10 from each circuit and let them face off somewhere none have gotten to fish in for the year and then you can rank who is better. It is fishing and we all need to enjoy it without fighting over who is better then who. Everyone has good days and bad days on the water. Love it and enjoy it. |
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Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I have a dream. Yes, I have a dream ladies and gentlemen that one day we all can see who the real walleye champions are.
That day will come when we have an invitational tournament comprising of the top 20 finishers from each national walleye circuit.
That day will come when we have an invitational tournament that is free for all of its participants.
That day will come when we have an invitational tournament that allows everyone participating to use their own equipment.
That day will come when we have an invitational Walleye tournament that pays $500,000 to the winner.
Yes, I have a dream, a dream where any poor boy or girl can grow up and be crowned as the best of the best in the walleye world.
Or a dream, where the walleye rankings here on WalleyeFIRST are recognized as the true standard of professional walleye fishing and the top fifty people participate for a real national championship.
A dream where professional walleye fishing is recognized right up there with the PGA.
A dream where more than just a handful can make a living from tournament walleye fishing.
A dream where the same rules are applied regardless of what tournament you choose to fish.
I have a dream.
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Member
Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | Amen my friend, now can someone please get me a tissue. |
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| Well said Sunshine |
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Member
Posts: 859
Location: Appleton wi | Hey sunshine you sound like your describing otter st. May the otter st winner be named world champion and champions of all champions!lol |
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| KEEEEEEEEEP DREAMIN SUNSHINE, MY FRIEND.
KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP DREAMIN...
Now three seperate top events, PWT super pro, PWT and FLW, different formats, levels of competition and a WWR system that might be the best of the best available, and a traffic magnet for Internet fans but unless Sunshine wakes up and finds himself a prophet, hopelessly flawed.
IMHO |
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| Doc has spoken, and he knows everything, so we better just shut the WWR down. Get real. |
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Member
Posts: 279
Location: Rockford MN | Joel "Doc" Kunz - 3/4/2006 10:25 AM
KEEEEEEEEEP DREAMIN SUNSHINE, MY FRIEND.
KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP DREAMIN...
Now three seperate top events, PWT super pro, PWT and FLW, different formats, levels of competition and a WWR system that might be the best of the best available, and a traffic magnet for Internet fans but unless Sunshine wakes up and finds himself a prophet, hopelessly flawed.
IMHO
Not start anything but what is so flawed about the WWR system? It's there to rank anglers based on "on the water preformance". It's not who is the most popular or who has the biggest name or does the most for the future of fishing, IT'S a Ranking system. |
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Member
Posts: 300
Location: Lincoln Park, Mi | I just want to know why the rankings still say RCL. Isn't it the FLW?  |
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Member
Posts: 110
| Yep, been FLW for a while now. It is hard to keep every word on a web page current when it comes to tournaments.
As for the rankings, I guess I don't know why people get their underwear in a knot. (Other than we are crabby from cabin fever) I'm not sure how it really matters if you are 5th or 50th with the various rankings. There are no prizes awarded to the top ten, are there? Do sponsors put any thought into a ranking system? If so, which one? |
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| Come on "Fan", do you really think there will be a day when there is only one "top" tour??? Well maybe there could be, but so far it's the PWT vs the FLW. GEEEEEZ Have a little imagination. Just having a little fun with my friend Dennis and at least I sign my name. Everyone is allowed their opinion, even you. Don't be so afraid to sign your name, even with what you said. Is the alternative to your post; "Zach has spoken and the WWR is perfect". What's wrong with a little debate?? I didn't insult you, why try to insult me? Knowing Zach, all my comments do is give him fuel to make it better or to make me admit acceptance of the mathematical formula. I'm sure if I see him tomorrow we will enjoy a great conversation and be friends and even possibly laugh during the debate of the WWR rankings formula. I have very high regard for Zach and he has proven over the few situations where we had to talk that he is a smart guy and man of his word. It's hard for you to understand that, obviously, not knowing that. I'm sorry but I've always been kind of a math wiz and still have a knack for numbers, albiet fractured by age and miles. I understand how a formula uses a variable and how the answer is affected by the value of X and Y.
If YOU feel like being a part of a debate regarding it, please feel free to join us at the Ice Braker this conming Saturday. I PROMISE to make the WWR rankings a topic of a panel discussion. |
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| Your comment 'Hopelessly Flawed' drew my comment. I'm pleased you are a math wiz cuz I sure aint, so what's their formula? |
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| Duke knows, but he's not telling.  And yes, in my opinion, it's impossible to put a mathematical formula to the diffrenece in the, NOW THREE, top curcuits without peer review and acceptance. If a mathmatician or scientist is going to publish his work, it's not based on a "secret formula". It's put out in front of the "community" and debated as was Einstein's Theory of Relativity and later his "Theory of all things". which was debunked as is any piece of work that is to be considered as representative of something significant. I personally don't think you can quantify a variable that equals the difference in a three day event vs a 4 day event with cut downs. I also think short term and long term weather patterns and other factors including tail piping, percentage of local anglers, number of years with an event on a particular water, time of year and other things are too variable from one event to another to make for a value of X and Y unless all participants are surveyed each event.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 3/6/2006 3:44 PM
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Member
Posts: 389
| "Knowing Zach, all my comments do is give him fuel to make it better or to make me admit acceptance of the mathematical formula. I'm sure if I see him tomorrow we will enjoy a great conversation and be friends and even possibly laugh during the debate of the WWR rankings formula. I have very high regard for Zach and he has proven over the few situations where we had to talk that he is a smart guy and man of his word. " (Doc)
Truer words were never spoken Doc! I agree whole-heartedly!! 
Juls
Edited by Juls_OH 3/6/2006 6:09 PM
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World Walleye Rankings