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| A reliable source told me they measured and weighed a walleye recently that was OVER TEN POUNDS but was only 26 inches long. (don't remember if he said 26 and 1/4 but definately 26 inches) EUREKA!!!!!!! There's gold in them there waters!!!!!!!
Kind of shoots the no trophy potential theory in the waders.
Believe it, or not.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 3/31/2006 6:06 PM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Not really Doc,
You know as well as I do that it's a female full of eggs. Show me some 30 inchers and I'll believe that ten pounders can become common.
I guess a trophy is in the eye of the beholder or person trying to make a point 
I'll give you this, I do see more 25-26" fish in the system than I did years ago. But not being a scientist, I do not know if that's because the system is getting better or I am
Edited by Sunshine 4/1/2006 7:07 AM
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| Dennis, sometimes you make me wonder. You say; "I guess a trophy is in the eye of the beholder or person trying to make a point." Or the person trying to make a point? Since when would a 10 pound fish of 26 inches OR fish of that "build" in a 28 inch fish, (which would have to weigh well over 10 pounds, maybe even 12) NOT be a trophy. Isn't the trophy fishing considered best on all bodies of water, in fall and spring when the fish are full of eggs? OH, I guess I don't fish tournaments, so I'm not be as well traveled as you, therefore I don't know what a real trophy is.   Didn't know 30 inchers had to be COMMON for a body of water to be considered trophy potential waters.
I will give you this, obviously the system is in much better shape then it was years ago.
My main question for the post was, is a 26 inch fish that weighed OVER 10 pounds from the Winnebago system a real fish or a fish story? | |
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| It does sound a little "fishy" doesn't it? Some of them can be real footballs but it does seem to be little short to join the 10# club. I guess I would side with the skeptical, and perhaps the jealous because I don't have the bragging rights on that one
Over the last couple of years, I have had folks that I consider to be good fisherman tell me that in prefishing that they have caught 30" fish. If they were BS'n me, they are good at it. I wonder if anyone recalls that last time a 30" fish was brought in to a tourney?
Take care,
Jim O
Edited by Jim Ordway 4/1/2006 9:56 AM
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Location: Darboy USA | They shocked some 30" eyes in the bayou near out raft this afternoon. Lots of mid 20's also and some males. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | So Doc,
When you catch that fish in two weeks and it weighs 7 pounds, is it still a trophy fish from a fishery that has the potential of producing consistent trophy fish?
I guess us well traveled tournament fishermen have a different gauge when it comes to trophy fish. My worldly travels tell me that most people consider a 30" walleye at 10 pounds + a trophy. But I know that you knew that.
I was reacting more to your inference that “it kind of shoots the no trophy potential theory in the waders”. That one fish doesn’t mean that this fishery has trophy potential unless you consider 26” fish real trophies. It may be a trophy for the wolf but us worldly guys know that in most areas it’s just considered a nice fish………….. but again, I know that you knew that.
Congrats to the guy who caught it especially if it is your personal best.
A 26” fish pushing ten pounds seems to be more and more common at De Pere this time of year. It’s very possible on the Wolf.
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| Every 26" fish that I have bothered to weigh has been an ounce or two either side of six pounds. I'm not a biologist so this is only opinion but a fish 66 per cent heavier than average is a little hard to believe without seeing. Even full of eggs and with the abundant forage that weight is tuff to buy. I do hope that my gut feeling is wrong! If true all the positive info on our system is true in spades. | |
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| So Dennis, when I catch that fish last fall is it a trophy?? Your worldly view is not good enough my good friend. I have always thought that a system capable of giving an angler a chance a breaking the ten pound "ceiling" was considred trophy potential. So all those guys who took 28+ inch fish from the Bay of Green Bay during ice fishing, or trolling the shore lines in the spring or fall when they are full of eggs, should take the mounts off the wall because they are not trophy's.
I would have to say YOUR "most people" are tournament anglers but MOST PEOPLE are not tournament anglers and IMHO I feel MOST anglers would consider ANY ten pound fish a trophy. Your two weeks theory obviously applies to LOTS of supposed trophy fish caught at DePere too, many under 30 inches. The "trophy fishery" slot limit of one fish over 28 inches should be changed to a more worldly 30 inches then I guess.
By the way, true story on the 26 inch fish. It was shocked and measured by KK in Eureka. ALSO, my friend, I have seen a few legendary fish over the years over 30 inches and over 13 pounds. Probably the same length to girth ratio as the big fish Kendall measured. If we have a system in place that protects the females during ANY point of their life, the potential for more of those fish increases, period.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 4/2/2006 8:57 PM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I’m really glad to hear that they shocked some 30" eyes and that Doc has seen a few fish over the years over 30 inches and over 13 pounds. These observations are good signs of a possible ability to have a real trophy fishery.
If KK sees these kinds of fish in the system and feels that with the right harvesting quota’s they could become the norm, I would be inclined to favor such a ruling. HOWEVER, I’m still a little hesitant to condone such a practice until the experts decree that it’s good for the system and not detrimental. I’m starting to hear more and more “experts” suggest that the really big girls should be removed from some systems because they do very little for reproduction and are nothing more than roaming feedbags. We should always be careful for what we ask for. Trying to create a better trophy fishery could end up being more harmful to the system if it has ill effects on the overall reproduction success. I’ll assume that my concerns are a mute point now because of the over abundance of forage that appear to be in the system. Would we alter this negatively if we artificially changed the makeup of the population by keeping a larger population of big fish in it?
Has KK addressed this issue/concern? Did anyone hear his last presentation?
Doc, I agree that if we have a system in place that protects the females during ANY point of their life, the potential for more of those fish increases. I’d still like to hear more about the long term effects. What are the DNR projections for this scenario? We all like catching the really big fish but are we our own worst enemies? What we want and what is best for the overall fishery may not be the same. What are the facts and projections?
Does anyone have any slides/PowerPoints from KK that shows the age of fish over 26”. And what is the life expectancy for fish in this system. Are fish over 26” or 28” or 30” still adding to the gene pool? Are they still successfully spawning? And if they are spawning, what percentage of their eggs successfully hatch? Anyone have any answers?
Doc, please keep us posted on anything you hear about the locks. I'm assuming that the media up there will have a better handle on what is happening. | |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I went to the FOCUS meeting and saw Kendal's presentation on the Bago system.
We actually spent a lot of time on a second presentation about invasive species, intended to raise awareness of the threats that exist in the Bay of Green Bay, that could get into Bago from boats. Boats not just coming from the proposed opening of the Fox Locks, but from fisherman's boats also. The scenario is if a person fishes the bay and keeps fish or bait in a livewell or baitwell and "releases" that water into Bago. What ever is in that water can get into the Bago system, this includes water in the bilge. It caused me to rethink what I do.
As far as the trophy question, it did come up. One of the theories is summer water temperature and how it affects metabolism and life expectancy. I know there are big walleyes in southern reservoirs, but those fish have access to deep cooler water. Just a theory for others to shoot at.
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Thanks Bob.
Good info.
Our shallow water and the warm summer temps are something to think about. | |
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| The DNR has shocked very FEW fish over 27" in the system actually the first one was last year I believe at 28". I may be mistaken but I thought it was aged at 17 years. Not to say that they aren't in the system. but definately are not abundant in any form or fashion!
Good Luck
Tyee | |
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| Dennis, first, I personally never said it should be managed as a trophy fishery but I have said that I personally would like to see less or no pressure on the females pre spawn. My refrence to these fish is in response to the comments about the Winnebago system not having trophy potential. That's what any coversation gets turned in to here, a debate on trophy potentail etc etc. Trophy potential of the system might not even be part of any consideration to protect the spawning females but MY point is that IMHO, anything done to protect the pre spawn females is good.
Tyee, I believe your information is flawed. Remember, I get to go in the shocking boat too and have pictures of fish bigger the 27 inches from the two previous years. Also, the bigger fish are much harder to stun because of their size and also tougher to net. That makes for very few fish in that situation. Kendall told me that they could turn the "juice" up higher to get those fish but it could be detramental to the smaller fish. We see quite a few BIG fish on the edge of the shocking range each time I've gone. I also personally have caught numerous fish over 27 inches the last ten years. When I get 10 in a night and dozens a year, I'm either very lucky or very good if there are FEW fish that size in the system. OBVIOUSLY there are few based on total numbers and OBVIOUSLY we are talking about things new because of habitat improvement and a strong farage base that have turned the "cigar Factory" of the 70's in to the fishery it is today. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Doc,
I'm disheartened………although I really enjoy our debates, it appears that we are on the same page. Hopefully, we can encourage others to continue this important dialogue.
Anything that can be done to protect the pre-spawn females is good with me. Thinking out loud, I wonder if we could create a way of letting the spawn occur without interference?
Any suggestions on how we can accomplish this? My first gut reaction is to have catch and release only until after the spawn. Giving this scenario a little more thought makes me wonder about the stress an egg laden female incurs when caught by traditional methods. Makes me wonder if research has been done by the DNR to determine the spawn success of females after being caught and returned to the water.
Anyone know if this type of research has been done?
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| I would like ask a question, and maybe make a point, at the same time. Does it matter at all, when a female is taken from the system? Prespawn, post spawn, summer, winter? I figure it really doesn't, in the grand scheme of things. When a female is harvested, we lose her for every year after. | |
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Location: Berlin | "HOWEVER, I’m still a little hesitant to condone such a practice until the experts decree that it’s good for the system and not detrimental. I’m starting to hear more and more “experts” suggest that the really big girls should be removed from some systems because they do very little for reproduction and are nothing more than roaming feedbags."
I have heard KK say this exact same thing a number of times and I have to agree. The thousand people fishing every weekend are here for food, not a trophy. Keep the numbers and who cares about the trophies. The winnebago system will never even come close to GB for size. The two are so close that you know where to go for numbers and trophies. Kendal, if you are reading this, keep up the good work. Fishing is better for me then it has ever been. I am even catching more and more saugers. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Shep,
That is the age old question. Here’s another way of looking at it. If a female is fortunate to make it to spring and is full of eggs, it's a bit of an ignominy not to allow her a couple of more weeks of life to finish the cycle of life. In the grand scheme of things, if we allowed those females one additional spawn before harvesting it does make a difference.
The unfortunate part of any discussion concerning issues like this revolves around personal sacrifice. Most people do not want to relinquish or surrender opportunities that they have enjoyed in the past. The spring fisherman sees no harm in what he or she does and doesn’t want change if it affects their fishing. Same can be said for the ice fisherman, late fall trollers or tournament fishermen. If it doesn’t effect our own plans and proves to be beneficial for the fish, we’re all for it. But if I have been taking a weeks vacation for the last 15 years in April to fish the prespawn bite I’m mad as hell that someone suggests taking away my opportunity. That’s usually when the emotions and name calling starts.
I’m not suggesting that you are apart of any of scenario’s above. I’m just assuming where this thread is headed after your comments.
I’ll go back to my original comments from a couple of weeks ago. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If it is broke, make sure that you use scientific study to determine the cause and the cure. If you implement a change make sure that you educate the sportsman about the benefits and include them in the discussion.
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| 2 cents.
To answer the question: What is the life expectancy? The Avg is 12 years on the winnebago system. My opinion....that is a limiting factor on "trophy" potential.
One other thought, I believe 'bago fish are VERY prolific spawners. As tough as it is to catch prespawn females in the river, the ones I have seen over the years are extremely egg laden and large. I believe it would be possible for a 10# 26" fish, not typical, but possible. It's a night and day difference between a 23" prespawn fish and a 23" post spawn fish. I can't say for fact, but I'd guess a 23" fish will weigh almost half it's weight after it spawns. Maybe KK has some data on this? | |
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| Here's what I feel is bad. Two Fremont tournaments last weekend. BOTH catch and kill events, not set up for live release. Posts all over the Internet about jerk drivers with ribbons on their bow, I witnessed this myself, and pictures on web sites of big egg laden females destin for the gut bucket. ALL for the sake of selling more beer. SO, some small boat anglers swearing they'll never come back to the Wolf on a weekend just because some bar wants to have a good day at the till. So a bar in Fremont has a negative effect on the entire river. A slot limit would limit this in some ways.
Another scenario going on right now. Big Whopper Weekend approaches and there are locals keeping big females in tanks for the event. All for the sake of a trophy. It's well known that this cheating goes on but it's tolerated because it's only for a bragging rights trophy. Big Whopper has a 3 DAY STRINGER TROPHY. So they say the event is usually post spawn but if you've seem the carnage I've seen, it's disgusting. SO, more tournaments THIS weekend where more guys will drive like total jerks and more females will be killed in the good cause of selling beer and more anglers in small boats will be driven off the water, some never to return, so one or two establishments can make some extra money. THEN I get eye witness reports of a few tournament anglers going out after the event to catch more fish (double bagging)
Sorry folks but I for one am working hard to limit or end the pre-spawn events or add a slot limit to protect the females. Sure, it was only 100 of the 2000 boats out there, but there are ZERO positive effects for these events other then to sell more beer at the host bar.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 4/4/2006 10:50 AM
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| Doc,
I'm sorry but you are off the mark. You're anti-tournament sentiment is getting, quite frankly, tiring. I was one of those "jerks" that you so cited. I don't ever recall those tournaments being forced to catch and kill. In fact I released our fish along with some others that chose so. Why? Because maybe not all of us our meat hogs and must keep everything we catch. Perhaps some of us enjoy fishing just to be fishing. Now weather it be in a competitive situation or not, is really our perogative. Bragging rights is always fun to have. Similar to you posting pictures of big fish caught on the internet, what is the true intent? To show people you can catch fish or for bragging rights of the big fish your buddy/"client" caught? Let's call a spade a spade shall we?
Secondly, how does your "expert" opinion rate above others of this website? Do you have more expertise on the wolf river system because you have a "friend" on the DNR staff? If Kendall doesn't support a slot limit, why insist that we need this? Why does the winnebago system have to be a "trophy" fishery?
Good day, Sir.
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | I was gonna keep my mouth closed on this one, but I simply can't any longer.
Changed my mind... yes I can.
Edited by Brad B 4/7/2006 11:38 AM
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Removed by me.
Edited by Brad B 4/7/2006 11:39 AM
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Location: LaCrosse, WI | The biggest issue between tourney anglers and "recreational fishermen" is that a few ego driven jerks ruin it for everybody. I fish a tournament trail and fish 3-5 times a week for fun. I've kept maybe 10 Walleyes in the last 2 years. I keep what I can eat, only when I want them. I don't see the point in freezing them, they're not as good frozen (plus it gives you a reason to go when you need some). There are bad eggs in tournament fishing, but go meet the anglers at the weigh-ins you'll be surprised how many of us honest hard working people there are. Some of us don't fish for money, we fish to be the best at our level. To me, that's what it's all about, not having the biggest boat, not having the best sponsors, not taking the most fish home, and certainly not to be an angling god.
The vast majority of anglers on the circuits I fish love live release tournaments. Nobody seems to raise a stink when we catch fish on the Wolf during a tourney and 30 locals pull up an anchor around you. I suppose that's OK because they're from the area. Everybody wants to complain about the tournament anglers, but nobody wants to say "Gee thanks for telling us at your weigh in where and how you got those fish, now I can go catch them like that tommorow". I think the worst thing that us tourney anglers do is show locals how to slaughter these fish. So yeah, maybe everything is our fault.
Sorry for bringing our money into your communities.
Sorry for bringing new lures and tactics to your water.
Sorry for thinking outside the box when on the water.
Sorry for taking the time to talk to the kids at the weigh-ins.
Sorry for writing the articles that bring tourists into your area.
Man, this makes us all look terrible doesn't it? | |
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| "I think the worst thing that us tourney anglers do is show locals how to slaughter these fish."
Don't flatter yourself sir. Most tournament anglers learn or have learned
their tactics or techniques from local recreational anglers who usually
keep their mouths shut. Then the "Pro's" come along and lay claim to
these amazing new techniques, spreading the word far and wide.
Local anglers fished with Flies for a long time before the pros caught on.
Tournament anglers didn't invent fishing the cane beds.
The local recreational anglers have known how to "slaughter" the fish
for a long time, most choose not to share that knowledge knowing the
damage it can cause. You sir have taught them nothing.
Take your money elsewhere. I'll teach my kids how to fish, thanks.
I liked fishing the Winnebago system much better before all the
tournaments came to town.
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Location: LaCrosse, WI | I never said that I personally taught your kids anything Are you saying that spinner rigs,spoons, planer boards, crankbaits, snap weights, dipseys, jets, line counters, and all that other stuff was invented on Winnebago?
My whole argument here is that a few bad apples give the rest of us a bad rap. However, rude errogant locals are no better. Maybe what we need is to respect each other. I just get sick of everyone assuming I'm going to kill all of "THEIR" fish because I have a sponsor shirt on. This kind of steryotyping makes people no better than racists. The thought that I'm an inferior being because I fish tourneys is narrow minded and plain silly.
I've fished Bago many times and thrown back every fish I've caught, or released live after weigh in. I do this because I think those fish could be caught and enjoyed by a kid some day. If that's not enough, too bad. I do my part, I try to teach others to as well and I'm proud of it. Belittle me all you want, but I try hard to do the right thing. Sorry that you've had bad experiences in the past, but that wasn't me. | |
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| too many tournaments period on the river, it is too narrow and not a lot of room for boats to zoom around on. I have fished here for over twenty years and have had many bad experiences with tournament fisherman who zoom up and down the river and they don't slow down.. Keep those big boats up on the big lakes. just my humble two cents worth. | |
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| First of all, I'm not against tournaments. I support the PWT, MWC, FLW and other organized circuits
Second, if the events were catch and release, I stand corrected about that.
Third, it's not ALL the anglers, it's those who while driving their boats do not respect the no wake zones or other non-tournament boats. I was out there Sunday morning and it was bull !!!
The PWT event is post spawn as are the other "circuit" organized events. My gripe is that the early bar events out of Fremont are NOT!!!!! At least make a safe zone for non-tournament boats like the PWT did. As far as my wanting to make it a trophy fishery, I've been clear on that, read the words.
Some of you need to take a pill, WOW. Believe me, I UNDERSTAND that only a small percentage of the tournament anglers drive like jerks. My gripe is, nothing is done. No reason too and it's basically unenforceable. Now the PWT put in a boundry that left the New London pool alone, the bar events don't. The FLW disqualified an angler for a day for driving like a jerk, other events have hard fast systems to keep any negative effects to a minimum, bar events don't. There has to be some limit or some negative feedback shared or there will be double what ther is now. I'm not the only one who is for some sort of compromised on both sides.
Another thing. My opinion is my opinion. Because I've been published so many times, I am fortunate to have lots of time spent in study and interview. I have notes that I can go back on for years. I have never claimed to be the definitive expert on the system. I HAVE spent 35 years fishing it, was taught by some of the old time local legends, did guide for a decade, have been published 100's of times and have done around 40 TV shows on the Wolf, including Bob Jensen's Fishing the Midwest, Outdoor Wisconsin and Babe Winkelman. What that does mean is that I have the respect of many, including those editors and TV show producers I have worked for. If you have a gripe with me because of my opinion on what I feel is an ill timed event and too many guys with yellow ribbons driving like jerks, then I guess that's what it is. I do respect your right to compete, congratulate any and all who release their female fish, applaud any boater who is polite and shake my head at every boat tournament or Jon who doesn't know what NO WAKE means.
As far as the fish I catch or those I've taught, selective harvest of males will not keep ONE EGG from being fertilized. I believe every angler could keep his limit, not fill his freezer, and every egg would still get a squirt.
I have also said this before and I'll say it again. I AM NOT THE BEST FISHERMAN ON THE SYSTEM, OR CLAIM TO BE.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 4/4/2006 9:10 PM
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| Well said Doc, I also have fished the system for 30+years and have similar experiences. Remember that the spring tourneys are comprised of mainly locals with a few exceptions. And the DNR IS aware of them and working on tournament regulation!
What about the retired or local that takes 5 a day and passes them out to the relatives? Come on guys Tourney anglers are NOT the problem, neither is taking prespawn females for bragging rights! Quite frankly the only "problem" (for me) is the lack of LARGE fish. With the last 4 0f 5 years of excellent hatches we have an opportunity now to try a "trophy" regulation. BEFORE they get slaughtered. This would prove either way if the system has the capability to hold these mammoth beasts and if the forage declines it wouldn't be too difficult to get them out of the system in a hurry, but it takes 2 years to pass such a law and should be considered soon!
A slot would do nothing more than post pone the inevitable and tempt violation. Try bragging to your buddy that you just slaughtered 5- 30" fish and see how long he stays your buddy!
Don't get me wrong but if your looking for economic growth we need more big fish. NOT slot limit fish, but a true bragging rights fish! (Also one of the reasons Muskies were released into the system) Ask any local how many 27"+ fish they've caught in the system and you will see that they all "know" of someone but rarely get them themselves and many fish here all day every day in the spring!
I'm going fishing
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 4/5/2006 6:36 AM
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | See you on the water.
Edited by Brad B 4/7/2006 11:36 AM
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| Doc,
You can stand and defend yourself and cite all your accomplishments. But you made the mistake of sterotyping and grouping all the "jerks" on the water as tournament fishermen. That, Sir, is wrong. I was one of those "jerks" you called out, so you can expect to hear something about it.
It's real easy to sit back and complain and post rants on the internet, but how about finding out more information on the bars, the offenders, and find the right people to talk to and make a difference?
Here's a little bit of help it's up to you to act on it. The pink ribbons were Hahn's out of Orihula and the tourney was on saturday. If you have issues contact the people that run it and voice your opinion. The yellow ribbons were Red Banks and that was saturday and sunday, again, contact the people that run it and voice your opinion. I think you'll be surprised when correct info is given to any tourney director on the offenders. Things will be said and changes can be made to improve the situation.
Now, for rude fishermen on the water. I find it ironic that a non-tournament boat in a larger fishing boat made the comment to me this last weekend, "It's those bastards in those little boats that cause problems". Take it for what it's worth.
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| Tyee,
Okay, you appear to be the knowledgeable one, I heard you speak at the ice breaker. Your source of information appears to be the DNR. Why? Why the big push for slots? The DNR isn't beating this drum. Why do we need to protect these "big" fish?
Considering many of these large fish are from the '96 year class and an average life expectancy of 12 years....things look grim for trophy fish, agree?
If you want to chase large fish go to Green Bay, it has the "right"stuff" to produce big fish. 'Bago doesn't seem to have the make up for the "big" fish, weather it be genetics (doubt it), metabolism, forage base, or other environmental factors.
Again, it was said once before and I'll repeat it. If it's not broke, don't fix it.
Good Day.
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| Can’t we all just get along?
Been a long winter, now we are all fishing and the slamming begins. What’s up with that?
Geez guys, lighten up a little and give EVERYONE the benefit of the doubt before ripping on each other.
A FEW OBSERVATIONS……
Jerks drive 12 foot Jon boats too.
Jerks fish rafts too.
Not ALL BIG Boats with kickers are tournament fishermen. That is a stereotype. Some of them guys are wanna bees.
Some guys out there this past weekend need educating, it was one of their first tournaments. They were pumped. They were excited. They were living the dream for a weekend. Not defending them but geez, talk to them nicely and they would learn, scream at them and they have deaf ears.
Laws and common courtesy need enforcing. Where were the cops and DNR? This problem happens every year. They should know better and be there. Shame on them for turning their heads on the local boys. I’ll bet ya’ a beer and a burger that they’ll be there in force when the PWT arrives.
The same complaints being made have been there for years and years. I bet some of you old guys like Doc have said: “look at the sob in the huge 16 foot boat with that huge 50 horse, what a jerk, why do people need boats that big now in 1970
How many of those guys doing the bar tournaments this past weekend are seasoned tournament fishermen? How many of them are the very same local fishermen that often complain about those national tournament guys? There are some hypocritical comments and ideas out there. Some of you wear two hats depending on the weekend. How can you have it both ways? One weekend you say you are a local and complain about people coming to your waters who are rude and other weekends you are a tournament guy defending tournaments …… funny to watch.
At least Doc doesn’t flip flop on his beliefs regardless of whether you like what he says or not. Some of you are putting words in his mouth. Go back and reread what he says. He is not Satan just outspoken in his beliefs and not afraid to share them. He has a right to share his opinions just like you. He NEVER pointed fingers at a specific individual but you do. PLAY NICE. Why the personal attacks over a difference of opinion? Your comments and ideas are better received without bashing. Your comments can be valid but are often lost when you attack.
Some of you have never grown up. You still believe that the person who screams the loudest, has the last word or bully’s the most wins.
Oh, and now the often used and never forgotten reply …… hey, if you don’t like it go fish somewhere else ……… that gets old too.
Hey, I got an idea. Close the Wolf for the entire pre-spawn and spawn. This solves all the problems. No more tournaments, no bickering, no big females being slaughtered, no jerks zooming through no wake areas, no pointing fingers. There, ya’ happy? Keep fighting amongst yourselves instead of working together to solve problems and it could happen ….They’re watching…. Bet our local establishments and businesses will be happy when it happens ………… BANG ………. That was the sound of ALL of us shooting ourselves in the foot.
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| Deep Throat,
Points well taken, but.... this topic originally was about a 26" fish and moved on to slots and trophy potential of the Winnebago system.
Some talk back and forth about tourney fishermen and non tourney fishermen and trophy fish was exchange. But I don't beileve it was a rant or based on emotion.
Doc was the one who called out tournament fishermen as "jerks" and spoke on emotion, I mearly replied. Other points can be debated. But this may be the reason that Doc is seeing some personal opposition?
As long as there are boys, bars and fishing....there will be competition, beer, and bragging rights. We all are just little boys trapped in adult bodies. (I do tell everyone that I'm not growing up, so you are correct )
I do not know who you are Deep Throat, but you have offered another clue. Perhaps someday we can enjoy a drink and chat. Keep your open minded posts coming.
Good Luck
Edited by Jayman 4/5/2006 9:57 AM
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Maybe some of you should go back and read Doc's post. He never called any tournament fishermen Jerks. He said," posts all over the internet about jerk drivers with ribbons on their bow, and that he witnessed it himself" | |
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Location: Berlin | Forget the Wolf, the females, the fishery and all other related topics. Lets put our minds together and solve the real problem here......Who the heck is Deep Throat. Hey DT, send me an email and let me know, your secret will be safe with me.
[email protected]
By the way, there are GPS waypoints for you if you let me know. It is for a rock pile on the Bago system that I can assure you is worth checking out.
Edited by Rich S 4/5/2006 12:04 PM
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| Hey Hey
Who you calling a wannabe. Just because I don't choose to fish tournaments and I have a nice Walleye boat setup with a kicker and $1500 worth of electronics makes me less of a fisherman than you the almighty pro. Oh please, let me lick your prop that next time I am in your almighty presence!
Get a grip, most guys that fish, fish because they love to fish, not because they are on an ego trip like you! | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Rich,
You always have the ability to make me smile and put threads that get a little heated into perspective, kind of.
Here's my guess, DT is a woman. At least DT was a woman in the first movie where this name was created.
But I suppose I'm just letting my mind wonder too much. DT is probably an equivalent for an insider like in Watergate.
Edited by Sunshine 4/5/2006 1:59 PM
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| THANK YOU ERIC AND DEEP THROAT. Brad and Jayman, take note of their posts, especially Eric's (shink's) As far as yellow ribbons, I know those boats were out of Red Banks. As far as talk to those running the events, I've talked to Bob, known him for 25 years. He can't enforce anything and any attempt at being tougher on things like no wakes would just produce finger pointing, billschmidt grievence filings and other situations he can't do anything about anyway. Said he talks about being courteous but it's up the the individual driver. Believe me, am working with local law enforcement to do something about it. When people are bailing boats at the boat ramp and women are crying, half scared to death because of it, something has to change. It's not just tournament boaters, it's everyone who doesn't know, or abide by the rules.
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Removed by me.
Edited by Brad B 4/7/2006 11:37 AM
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Brad,
You said that you read Doc's post twice. Please tell me where in his post it says that he agrees with the rest of the things that are being posted on the internet..
Tournament fishermen should know better than to drive like that on the river. Why? Because they have alot of eyes on them, the general public,. There are alot of posts from fisherman complaining about all the tournaments, thinking that they hurt the fishery.
Now, I don't agree with Doc that there should be a slot limit, but I do think that there should be a size limit, nothing over 26inches, until May 1st.
I don't think there should be any bar tournaments until after the spawn, I would say most of the guys fishing the smaller bar tournaments don't have the types of livewells that the guys have fishing the bigger tournaments, PWT, FLW, MWC. If I remember right two years ago, when the PWT was up there, they had 1 unreleasable fish in 3 days.
Brad, I get the impression you have a bone to pick with Doc. I will say one thing about him, he is the most knowledgeble guy on the wolf (that is in the Public eye). He comes on here and other websites to help guys catch fish, tell them what works and where. Other guys voice their opinions on here, why isn't Doc? | |
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| Enforce the wake rules. The " NO WAKE " rule at the rock wall should be moved up the river at least 300 yards. How many times have we ALL seen some macho man come whippin down the river or out of Lake Partridge at warp 3 through a hand full of rentals full of kids. You boys fight about this all you want but when SOMEONE DIES then we may all as well get the 9.9's back out. IT WILL ALL BE NO WAKE.
Hand out fliers, post signs,ask for volunteers to patrol the river,hire more law officers but the problem is there all the time. Get off of the tourney guys. YES they should know better but they do what the can get away with.
This not a new problem and not something that is going to go away. Some needs to take this to the powers to be and not argue about it on a Fishing site.
Now thats my two cents. Now go get a cold one. Roo | |
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| Jason, To set the record straight I have never supported and will continue to be against slots on any system unless it is in dire stress. I have stated before that IF there is something to bennefit the system, it would be to have a limit, of say 5 fish (or defined by the DNR) with only 1 being over 27or 28" (for the entire season) I wouldn't call that a slot but rather a size restriction.
The ONLY reason for this would be to make it more enjoyable for ME and to fit MY needs! I have caught many fish in that range myself but am often discouraged when I see a pail full of them often daily by some fishermen!
As for the comment if it ain't broke don't fix it...well.......tires were once made out of wood wern't they?
Oh, and Rich, I'll be Deep Throat!!!! Don't give up that Rock Pile, I still wanna fish it for a few more years.!!!!!hehehe
Good Luck
Tyee
PS the fish are bitin so get going!
Edited by tyee 4/5/2006 10:33 PM
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Location: Freedom, WI | So how bout the fishing?!?! If everyone put as much effort into fishing reports as they do into bickering on how taking prespawn females is horrible and how tournament guys are jerks, I think we would all be out enjoying the amazing system we have been blessed with and be happy! I am a local that fishes a few tournaments, fished two on the Wolf last Spring and i've seen the crazies fly through packs of boats and soak them with their fishtales! Its not right, I think we all agree on that, but bickering about it here isn't going to stop it. I admire most of the guys on this site and hope to someday know the system as well as them all, but I need to graduate from college and get a good job first. For now I am fishing small Bar Tournaments to gain knowledge which will hopefully someday help me go pro. Sorry I got a little off topic. I have been on the Wolf a few times this year, had one day with 8 nice keepers fishing in front of Jenny's Slough vertical jigging with a 1/4oz jig and shiner. Other than that the wind and low water has made it tough so far. Lets do the future a favor and raise our kids to have respect for the guys in their jon boats so that when they fish their first tournament and are excited they will have the courtesy to respect everyone on the water! Enough said, lets get back to the fishing reports PS...Rich I wouldn't mind the coordinates LOL
Edited by bagowalleyeguy 4/5/2006 10:41 PM
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Walleyeguy, good luck with the small tourneys. If you do hope to turn pro someday, stick with college, and my advice would be, take at least one marketing class. It will help you tremendously with sponsors. | |
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| ME ME ME! I love it. hahaha
"I have caught many fish in that range myself but am often discouraged when I see a pail full of them often daily by some fishermen! "
I have never seen a pail full of 27-28" fish come out of 'Bago or the rivers. And if someone has the talent and the spots to catch fish like that...more power to them. One can only hope that some one that knowledgeable on catching those kind of fish has the "smarts" to respect the resource. But let's stick with more factual statements shall we?
The Winnebago fishery management is not designed for you, Tyee, it is what's best for the resource. I think Kendall is doing a great job, let's let him continue to do his job. | |
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| Brad, I already said if the event was catch and release, I stand corrected. You read that???? Aparantly not. I didn't know Bob changed his format, set up live tanks for holding fish prior to weigh in and demanded the release of the fish. As far as being witness to the jerk drivers, I fished all night Saturday and was anchored in a no wake zone at sun up and stayed there watching as many yellow ribbons came bashing through the no wake. Had my camera lens not been fogged up, I could provide you boat numbers and pictures of those jerks and video of the two guys, with yellow ribbons, that didn't shut down until AFTER the bouy and then raced through the no wake zone pushing large wall's of water trying to beat each other to the far side of the zone. When one took off early, the other guy did also to keep up. How many times was THAT repeated in the 5 or 6 no wake zones prior to the one I was sitiing in. How about the guy bailing his little Jon boat and girl with him crying at the ramp, scared from the "ride" they got at the hands of those boats. They were just getting ready to go and quit because of it. No Brad, YOU are not getting a free pass on this one. 5 females? There's more then that shown on Red Banks web site, heck, you can't count OR read. All fish were released, BULL!!!! As far as PUSHING a slot limit. I just stated my opinion, I have no lobbying power, so get off your soap box Brad. What's wrong with the Red Banks event in Fremont, NOTHING, just set some boundries that keep it closer to home and allow some "tournament free waters" for others to fish without being put in danger by the "small percentage". A business taking advantage of the same things I am??? BULLLLLLLLLLLL Man, you are out there. I promote safe boating in my articles and my web site works with tourism in the area and as an extension of my writing career, not just to put money in my pocket. The bar tournamet is designed to put money in the till, geeeze grow up and small the coffee will ya.
As far as what I've done for the system. I don't have anything to be ashamed of. I teach kids to fish, have helped hundreds if not thousands of anglers and have helped to put (possiblly millions) of dollars in to the communities of Winneconne, Fremont and New London. The Red Banks tournamet does not. I asked 4 different resorts if they had ANY bookings from last weekends events and 4 for 4 were NO.
So throw all the stones you want Brad, or be a crow and pick the corn out of my pile, but you are way off base with your rant.
No more on this one from me.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 4/6/2006 11:22 AM
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| Jason the ME,ME, ME was tounge in cheek.
"I have never seen a pail full of 27-28" fish come out of 'Bago or the rivers" HOLY COW MAN you better get out from under that rock and start fishin!
I invite you to go to New London for their walleye extravaganza! I believe it is the weekend of the 14th. Let me know how many "Big" fish you see fighting for the top prize.(Most of which were caught days prior.) Or better yet jump in my boat Friday or Saturday night this weekend and we can fill 2 pails with 10 fat mamas, probably not 27" but 24-26 for sure, there's only a few days left! Then we can go spend a day on the upper lakes and I'll guarantee ya a pile of nice fat spawned out females in May. (OH Tongue in cheek again, I AM knowledgeable enough to release them and love spending the time to catch them I can't speak for others so I won't, but you know as well as I that a vast majority will fry 'em up and heck why not the system is in great shape!
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 4/6/2006 11:35 AM
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Location: Berlin | Fish fry at my house this friday night. Everyone that posted on this thread is invited:) | |
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| Thanks for the invite Rich! hehe I love how you simplify the worlds biggest problems!!
Another thought,
Kendals group is doing a great job but lets not forget that it isn't only about managing the resource he has to take into consideration the Sociological effects as well as the Economic impacts of fishing this area. So if the resource is in great shape is there anything else that can be done on these other issues? I'm sure Kendal would love to tell you that his job is done and he could take the day off and go fishing but there's more to look at than just what kind of shape the system is in! I think the idea of having more fish in the 27-28 inch class would definately be good for these two issues without "Hurting" the resource don't you? I agree with Doc on the issue but for different reasons. We don't need another Mille Lacs situation!
Good Luck
Tyee
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Location: Port Washington, wisconsin | Think I'll fish the wolf river this weekend. On second thought, a bad days work is better than a good day up there, if it's even possible. I thought fishing was supposed to be relaxing. Geez! What a way to start the season. | |
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| Tyee,
Yes, tongue and cheek regarding the ME ME ME. Besides I didn't think you were in the ME generation?
Now this....."Or better yet jump in my boat Friday or Saturday night this weekend and we can fill 2 pails with 10 fat mamas, probably not 27" but 24-26 for sure, there's only a few days left!" Becareful what you ask for, I will be living on the river all weekend long. Just me and the dog a bunch of friends and somebody else's cooler.
Yes, I've seen all the big fish at Whopper weekend, I now how they get all those big fish too. I'm well aware of how many big spawned out females are taken from the river and fried up. Don't waste the walleye cheeks! But 27-28" is a bit of a stretch, 21-26" much more believeable.
Last year was by far the best run I've seen in my mere 15 years on the river. But that told me there are just that many big fish in the system, I think better than most people realize, it'd be different if everybody was going out to the lakes and getting a limit of 20+ fish. But that's just not the case, even more so, people are satisfied with a limit of "eaters". I see no harm in that. Changing the regs so we can all catch more big fish is not what's best for the fishery. | |
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| Ok I'll concede! Give me a call I might just have a cold one in my cooler for ya! somewhere in that 70 mile stretch of water.
I want to confirm Doc's orig. post here that YES there is a mamoth walleye at 26" that weighs 10+ pounds. This from a VERY reliable source as Doc mentioned! As these fish grow rather fast I wouldn't doubt that it is from the '96 year class but no evidence to support that assumption yet as it is still swimming.
The million dollar question is if that fish could grow to 30" in the system. Most evidence says no! As Exploitation is NOT an issue, but rather shallow warm water and the biological makeup continues to be the issue.
On a side note, about Doc's comments and worries about local bar tourneys, There is no worry from a resource impact as most of those guys would be out fishing any hoo and would probably be taking home fish. Although the sociological impact should be of concern!
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 4/6/2006 4:55 PM
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Removed by me. Sorry if I allowed this to go too far.
Edited by Brad B 4/7/2006 11:25 AM
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| Oh you boys get so egotistical | |
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| How much is enough said about one topic?? You guys are blowing this thing way out of proportion. Anyway, I thought this was a fishing report website. Not a piss and moan web site. Yes, there are problems with the speed and wakes that some people just don't care about. And there are fish that are taken illegally everyday by some. But it is happening everyday and until the DNR starts doing something about it....it will happen for the next 30 years or to the end of out lifetimes. You can't just point the finger at certain people. The rafts hammer the fish when they are coming back, people are double dipping and most have more than 2 daily bag limits per person in their freezers.
So, until the DNR starts giving out some hefty fines and patroling the river better....this will continue to happen so no sense in pissing and moaning about it. Let's everyone just get along and post some good fishing reports!! What's wrong with being positive? | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Well Guest, let's try your suggestion.................
Are the big girls heading back now?
Is it mostly a night bite?
Are the rafts on fire with fish?
Doc, you still taking me fishing?
Tyee, how many spots do you really have along those 70 miles? Are you getting pictures of those big girls before you release them?
Brad, have you and Doc kissed and made up yet?
Is it raining there today and how has it effected the bite? If the rains are heavy will this flush the big girls down and out faster?
How many of you are catching spawned out fish now?
Are these enough questions? Who has answers and are willing to give some answers? | |
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| WalleyeChick,
You are so right, we boys just think the river is ours....because there is very little pissing and moaning about boat traffic and "jerks" come June when the really big power boats are running the river at 70+ mph. | |
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Location: Neenah, WI | Doc,
What did you mean by "He can't enforce anything and any attempt at being tougher on things like no wakes would just produce finger pointing, billschmidt grievence filings and other situations he can't do anything about anyway. " ?
Please don't use my name in vain...
Regards,
Bill Schmidt | |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Sunshine -
I hope that Doc and I understand one another a little better, but I'll let you give him that kiss when you see him next...
No reports on that please. | |
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Location: Berlin | I have always heard the best part of fighting is making up. Maybe WalleyeFirst can stream some video for all of us to see. | |
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| Make-up fishing? | |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Just concentrate on that fish fry you promised us all Rich...
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BIG fish story