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Member
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Location: Shabbona | After reading all these posts the past day or two - Do you honestly think Kristine made all these decisions herself? I am sure she consulted the DNR - Army Core - National Weather Service - Anglers Advisory Council - Bill Gereny and Mike Hurless before a sound decision was made. So for those who keep saying Kristine made a bad call is incorrect! Out of 400 anglers there is 9 or 10 people bashing at this women who has done a fine job running the MWC. The payouts have been increased dramatically and the MWC runs like a fine oiled machine. Very organized and precise. I am sure the same 9 or 10 bashing people will bash this thread as well. Also, I would like to hear from the other 385 anglers and how they feel. Kristine is not God. She can't control mother nature, the best she could do is play the best hand dealt her in all fairness. Until you bashers are in a position like Kristines and are able to see both sides of the fence maybe you should refrain yourself from these rude, inconsiderate remarks. After all we are all human and have feelings, plus we have a boss! There is other ways to express your views other than bashing someone on the internet. Just my 2 cents.
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| You are entitled to your opinion. Did you fish this tournament? | |
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Member
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Location: Orland Park, IL | What about the anglers advisory council. No chime in from them? Come on Pete Petros lets hear the reasoning behind this. I fished it, my first MWC. Cant say I have a lot of good memories. Pretty rough for a first time. Imagine for those folks not used to fishing the crud on illinois. | |
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Member
Posts: 74
Location: Spring Valley,Il. | Moo - 3/26/2007 5:27 PM
After reading all these posts the past day or two - Do you honestly think Kristine made all these decisions herself? I am sure she consulted the DNR - Army Core - National Weather Service - Anglers Advisory Council - Bill Gereny and Mike Hurless before a sound decision was made. So for those who keep saying Kristine made a bad call is incorrect! Out of 400 anglers there is 9 or 10 people bashing at this women who has done a fine job running the MWC. The payouts have been increased dramatically and the MWC runs like a fine oiled machine. Very organized and precise. I am sure the same 9 or 10 bashing people will bash this thread as well. Also, I would like to hear from the other 385 anglers and how they feel. Kristine is not God. She can't control mother nature, the best she could do is play the best hand dealt her in all fairness. Until you bashers are in a position like Kristines and are able to see both sides of the fence maybe you should refrain yourself from these rude, inconsiderate remarks. After all we are all human and have feelings, plus we have a boss! There is other ways to express your views other than bashing someone on the internet. Just my 2 cents.
Maybe she didnt make all the decisions herself,but she was a part of it,and it was not a good decision.And believe me, there are more than 9 or ten people bashing.I live in Spring Valley and there are alot more than 9 or ten people here that think it was wrong.As far as the payouts increasing,it is because the entry fees were raised in which the anglers pay to fish the tournament.Also, the reason that the tournament is run so smoothly here in Spring Valley,is because of the Spring Valley Walleye Club and its volunteers.I have fished other MWC tournaments and they dont come close to this one.I dont know if you fished the tournament or not,but if not,then you dont know what it was like out there.We quit early due to saftey reasons.When we did make it back to barto landing,the crap in the water was so thick,we could barely get through it.Had to lift the motor up twice to clear all the junk off to get in.This water was not fishable.After all we are all human and should be thought of for safety.Just my 2 cents. | |
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Member
Posts: 74
Location: Spring Valley,Il. | M_komo - 3/26/2007 6:13 PM
What about the anglers advisory council. No chime in from them? Come on Pete Petros lets hear the reasoning behind this. I fished it, my first MWC. Cant say I have a lot of good memories. Pretty rough for a first time. Imagine for those folks not used to fishing the crud on illinois. I think the cat has their tounge komo.You would think that after hearing all of this,somebody would chime in.
Edited by klino3 3/26/2007 6:38 PM
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Location: Rhinelander | Posting one's opinion that a poor decision was made at the last MWC is not bashing the MWC Director. It's posting one's opinion, based on the facts of the matter, not pure emotion. We look for folks to back opinion with fact, and refrain from real bashing, which is pointless name calling, degradation and accusation.
I stand by my previous personal comments, and am pretty sure most of the folks commenting here would as well, including you, sir! That's the strength of a good debate.
I HAVE been in that position, and there's no way I'd have sent a field of 196 boats out for a shortened day in one flight into rising, nearly unfishable ( by any standard, 4 fish caught by such a talented field indicates that was the case) rising flood waters inundated with dangerous obstacles. 100% hindsight, but I'm sure that decision, had the MWC decided to cancel, would receive criticism as well.
Please note that no one is saying the MWC is poorly run per se. I'm fairly sure most would agree the circuit is well run.
As long as pointless bashing isn't allowed this debate subject offers insight I would think the MWC would find very valuable.
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| moo, explain what both sides of the fence are.There's only one side of the fence in this call, safety first.You can argue safety, if you like, but there is no other side.The IWT is run by a local organizer and there tournament scheduled for seven days after ours has been postponed three weeks.He stated the river is unsafe because of dangerous amounts of debrie,unsafe current levels,and flood stage water levels.That's seven days after our tournament which was the peak danger period.You werent there, so i dont see how you can even comment on this either way. | |
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Member
Posts: 82
| Moo can have an opinion about and he did in a post earlier on Sunday...his opinion was that its our fault for launching.
But, defending the decision to launch is really something that confuses me. I dont see how can judge whether it was safe. But, everyone can comment on the internet....right moo?
And, I intend on finding out what the SV Walleye Clubs stance on the release of boats was. | |
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Member
Posts: 1382
| I don't think Mucha fished this year but he has almost every previous year and he's entitled to his opinion, you may not agree with it but he has definitely earned the right to express it. | |
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| Moo, Kristine is the director, so the final say will always go back to her. She is the one that let the field go. Shame on her!!! | |
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| Just talked to a friend who fished the tourney, wasn't really worried about the branches and trees that were in the flow, but when they had to dodge the refrigerader floating that was another thing. Wow! | |
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| Not being from the area, and after reviewing the pics...my question is, Where does all this stuff end up? | |
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Member
Posts: 1382
| Plaquemines Parish? | |
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| I have read a lot about safety on all of these posts. Safety is up to the boat driver! No one had to go out. I pre fished on Wedensday when a Lightning storm was making the air hiss before it struck and hitting all around Peru I never saw anyone leave. I must have had 12 boats around that I could see. The MWC is a great team format to fish with a great payout, they can't please everyone with all the decisions they make. lets all let this bashing die and move on to Greenbay. I for one will contine to fish the MWC wherever it goes.
PS Check out how the points were given out, everyone still has a chance for the championship. | |
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| The only complaint I have about the tournament was the take off. I was back in the field and wished there would of been two take offs so I had the full eight hours of fishing. As it was I returned at 2:00 , waited out in the water to get droped off d and then spent over and hour waiting to get to the ramp to load the boat. I'm not blaming the SV boat club they did a great job of trying to get every one loaded. I just don't think it made any difference to have one flight. I sure would of liked to had beed geting a line wet then sitting there for over an hour and a half. | |
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Member
Posts: 129
| I was not involved in the Spring Valley MWC, in fact I have never fished at Spring Valley and I'm not fishing the MWC this year (due to a family conflict). That being said, I have fished the MWC in the past and have been involved with the AAP. I can assure everyone that the decision in question and any other decision on whether to "go" or not is not taken lightly and is done with considerable deliberation. As was posted in another forum, as the captian of your vessel, you and only you are responsible for your passengers and your own personal safety. The only people that have any right to bitch here are those who decided not to launch, for safety reasons. If you decided that it was safe to launch and/or didn't immediately return to the launch after deciding conditions were unsafe, you (and only you) are to blame. I bet the four teams that caught fish aren't complaining about the conditions.
Tim "Toolman" Joseph | |
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Location: Rhinelander | This discussion is not 'bashing', Carl. I think points have been well made and eloquently spoken on several related issues, and should be well taken. The decision was made to send out the boats, and if one wanted a shot at team of the year and the Championship, one has to launch; not to mention the $700.00 investment in the entry fee. Once that decision is made, most will go.
Once on the water, I agree, it's up to the boat captain to make sure the craft is kept safe. This environment was SO tough, just running the rig at idle was potentially hazardous to equipment. The MWC KNEW the conditions were going to be absolutely awful, or the 'catch a fish, cash a check' statement would not have been made.
Was the decision to send them out for a short day, all in one flight, 1 fish to win a probability, fish-at-your-own-risk one day event made lightly? I am sure it wasn't. ALL told, was it the right decision to make for the event, the anglers (all of them, not just the 4 who caught a fish), and the circuit?
That's what's being discussed here, IMHO. No disrespect to anyone intended, some anger and unhappiness aside---- there's nothing wrong with this debate. | |
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Member
Posts: 74
Location: Spring Valley,Il. | Toolman - 3/27/2007 2:00 PM
I was not involved in the Spring Valley MWC, in fact I have never fished at Spring Valley and I'm not fishing the MWC this year (due to a family conflict). That being said, I have fished the MWC in the past and have been involved with the AAP. I can assure everyone that the decision in question and any other decision on whether to "go" or not is not taken lightly and is done with considerable deliberation. As was posted in another forum, as the captian of your vessel, you and only you are responsible for your passengers and your own personal safety. The only people that have any right to bitch here are those who decided not to launch, for safety reasons. If you decided that it was safe to launch and/or didn't immediately return to the launch after deciding conditions were unsafe, you (and only you) are to blame. I bet the four teams that caught fish aren't complaining about the conditions.
Tim "Toolman" Joseph If you didnt fish or were not there then you dont know how bad it was.I fished it and quit early because of the UNSAFE conditions.I have lived in Spring Valley my whole life and fished the river there my whole life and this is the worse I have ever seen it.It isnt the highest I have ever seen it but the absolute worse for floating debris.I dont care what anybody says we should not of been out there that day.And by the way,if the MWC thought it was safe enough to fish on sat.,then why wasnt it safe enough on sun.?It was because they didnt want to go through the hassle of moving the tournament to depue.There again they were thinking of themselves and not the fisherman.For the last 20 years there has always been 2 flights for safety reasons and this year they changed it to one flight.Was this a good safety decision?I dont think so.It was the worse possible year that they could of done that.As far as the four teams that caught fish congrats.We will all see in the future how this is going to effect the MWC. | |
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Member
Posts: 129
| Klino,
If you felt it was unsafe and quit early, you made the right choice-for you. There were 190+ boats...how many did not launch or came in early? My point is, each individual is responsible for his/her own safety.
Tim | |
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| I was there and did fish it. Never at any point in time did I think my life was in danger. I have been a lot more worried numerous times on my HOME waters of Erie, which I know extremely well, then I was at anytime Saturday. Yes, there was a ton of debri and material coming down river. If you went out and tried to run 50 + MPH you were probably going to have trouble. We ran 25 - 35 MPH and had no surprises or problems.
I have heard a lot of talk of moving the second day to a different location and things of that nature. I am guessing most of the people making those claims have never dealt with tournament permits and such? A permit to hold a tournament is issued for a set date or dates and location. You don't just go and move locations. It also seems very odd that the same people that are argueing we shouldn't have fished on Saturday are a lot of the same people that are saying she should have moved Sunday to Depue. Doesn't this seem like talking out both sides of your mouth to the greatest degree and makes me think that maybe some people just want to complain and try to make the MWC look bad.
The other thing to remember is there were nearly 400 people in this tournament. If 100 didn't agree with the decision that is 25% of the people that disagree. Those 100 can make a lot of "noise". From what I have seen here and on other sites there are about 10-15, MAYBE 20 people,that actaullay fished the tournament, making noise about the decision. As a tournament director myself if I can consistently make 75%+ percent of the people happy, when a tough decision has to be made, I am doing pretty darn good!
Great point about the lightening storm on Wednesday but we did leave and I know one other boat that did also. I will admit we were having trouble with our kicker so that made the decision easier since we needed to get it worked on!
At the end of the day Kristine made a tough decision, with input from a lot of different people and agencies, and no matter what she would have decided she was going to get bashed for it. All I would say to the people that want to try to run her and the MWC down is I can GUARANTEE if you had caught a 2.72 lbr Saturday you would NOT be on here saying we shouldn't have fished.
Matt D
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| Matt D - 3/28/2007 5:53 AM
I was there and did fish it. Never at any point in time did I think my life was in danger. I have been a lot more worried numerous times on my HOME waters of Erie, which I know extremely well, then I was at anytime Saturday. Yes, there was a ton of debri and material coming down river. If you went out and tried to run 50 + MPH you were probably going to have trouble. We ran 25 - 35 MPH and had no surprises or problems.
I have heard a lot of talk of moving the second day to a different location and things of that nature. I am guessing most of the people making those claims have never dealt with tournament permits and such? A permit to hold a tournament is issued for a set date or dates and location. You don't just go and move locations. It also seems very odd that the same people that are argueing we shouldn't have fished on Saturday are a lot of the same people that are saying she should have moved Sunday to Depue. Doesn't this seem like talking out both sides of your mouth to the greatest degree and makes me think that maybe some people just want to complain and try to make the MWC look bad.
The other thing to remember is there were nearly 400 people in this tournament. If 100 didn't agree with the decision that is 25% of the people that disagree. Those 100 can make a lot of "noise". From what I have seen here and on other sites there are about 10-15, MAYBE 20 people,that actaullay fished the tournament, making noise about the decision. As a tournament director myself if I can consistently make 75%+ percent of the people happy, when a tough decision has to be made, I am doing pretty darn good!
Great point about the lightening storm on Wednesday but we did leave and I know one other boat that did also. I will admit we were having trouble with our kicker so that made the decision easier since we needed to get it worked on!
At the end of the day Kristine made a tough decision, with input from a lot of different people and agencies, and no matter what she would have decided she was going to get bashed for it. All I would say to the people that want to try to run her and the MWC down is I can GUARANTEE if you had caught a 2.72 lbr Saturday you would NOT be on here saying we shouldn't have fished.
Matt D
So let us hear what you would have done since you are tournament director? I hear all this stuff and understand why people were or were not happy. In the end it is about the anglers that support the tour, without them the tour has ZERO sponsors and ZERO money to run a good tour.
This would has been a perfect example of just how far a tour is willing to go. Facts are what they are, everyone keeps bringing up 5-10' waves on Erie. The IL. river is not lake Erie nor should the anglers safety ever been compermized (sp) for the sake of others (in this case the MWC) UNLIKE Erie where you may get caught ,they sent you all out INTO this. OVER 90% of the time the Tours get it right and delay or even cancel days, you just saw the other 10% at the IL. river.
4 total fish between almost 400 anglers is a joke, in the history of tour fishing this ranks as one of the biggest blunders ever. This all stems from MONEY and has nothing to do with anything else! You guys are getting to the point where you just do whatever to fish and one day someone is going to get hurt. If I told you to jump off a bridge because you might find money in the water, would you? I get
the feeling 50& of the people would. Sad but thats why they say 7 out of 10! This is how people gain office and how they convince you to pay more for less. This is
how car dealers make millions and why people pay sticker prices on boats. Have some sort of backbone, admit this was wrong. AT no point in any event do you send anglers out when there is this big of a danger. Sorry but sticking up for stupid moves just makes this all look even more about MONEY. It sounds like you guys were an "easy sell", pay me $700 and if you catch a fish you win a prize! Gotta love a sucker, they say they are born everyday and the MWC found a few hundred pretty easily  | |
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| Thought I was pretty clear where I stand and what I would have done but I guess I was not. I would have done the exact same thing as what Kristine did. From a safety stand point I do not feel there was an unrealistic degree of danger. I look at debri in the water presenting a safety issue while driving no different then a heavy rain that would hamper visability and increase danger. Where do you draw the line? At the end of the day each team has to make the decision on what they feel is an acceptable ampunt of risk and what their comfort level
As far as it being tough fishing. Hell yes it was. Do you really want to start cancelling tournaments because the bite is tough? That is a real slippery slope that I personally don't want to get started down. Everyone had to fish the same conditions.
Don't take this the wrong way. I am not trying to change your opinion because I know that is not going to happen. I am just stating my opinion as someone that was there and am not trying to say that everyone agreed with me like others have tried to do. I will gladly continue to discuss this with anyone that has the nerve to at least sign their name to the post but will not reply to the amazingly brave people that won't stand behind their posts by logging in.
Matt D
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| okokokokok! if you do like kristine's call then don't fish the mwc anymore! when i use to fish the mwc in the 80's and 90's we didn't have this much whining! my god if you don't like the call don't fish it anymore. | |
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| I guess I agree and you have changed my mind, as soon as it starts raining whole trees and deadheads and refridges, and cows and tires- then rain is the same thing as a river over the banks sucking down everything in it's path.
Guess thats why I left the amateur MWC tour for something more in touch with the real world.
Just what did the tour have to lose by NOT running a miserable event? They get sponsor money to cover any and all expenses. They don't get aything when someone gets hurt or anglers leave the tour because of the way things are run. | |
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| The MWC's ultimate responsibility is to conduct a safe fair fishing tournament!
I would say that this was unsafe, not fair based on equal fishing hours, and not even a fishing tournament when it comes down to pure luck and 4 fish out of 196 boats. I have spoken with many fishermen that came in early due to safety and there are many that are not posters that are very unhappy. I would say the majority is on the side of being unhappy. Rumors are rampant and we need facts regarding how the decision was made. Many are saying the DNR and Army Corps of Engineers all recommended against letting the boats out. Cannot take anything back but all hope something is learned for the future as most will continue to fish the MWC. | |
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Kristine This Kristine That