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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Everyone talks about Tournament walleye fishing and how to get it as big as bass. There are other ways, but this would be a good start.
For those of us that enjoy following competitive fishing, we like to know who is playing the game. Have you noticed that the PWT starts weds and you wont see a list of competitors until they are listed on a leaderboard. Dont point fingers either, because its the same way in the FLW. This is what I would like to see.
The pwt, flwtour and flw league should list there pro's/co's no matter how many are signed up. It is like some great big secret otherwise. I like to follow the sport but the organizers make it tough.
What does everyone else think. | |
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Location: Rhinelander | We frequently don't get the field of contestants until a couple days before the events. I think it's because of the Co Angler field fluctuations and pairings. | |
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| Couple of days before? I wish. It's usually mid-morning the day of the event. | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | OK so the co-anglers are the ones that make this impossible. Then eliminate listing them. No need anyhow.
I am currently playing a fantasy bass league on the flw site. Its fun and they have a list of names up and who is signed up for the next tour event. This seems like a very easy thing to do. Why doesn't someone set the standard in walleye fishing? It is not the job of the independant websites, it should be the organizers themselfs. | |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Yes, Steve has the correct answer to that. When tournaments aren't full also is another reason why a list of contestants hasn't been released. Things change almost on a daily basis with problems arising with co-angler situations and sometimes pros having to drop out due to problems at the last minute. Whether it be boat problems, family issues or even health conditions of pros/co-anglers. That's at least how I saw it on the PWT last year. | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | OK T.J., so things change, so then the organizers can go in and add a angler or take one away, when the need arises. This is not a huge problem. It happens in only a few instances anyhow. This is very basic computer skills to change as needed anyhow..
You stated that when tournaments are not full is another reason why lists of contestants have not been released. WHY TJ? How does that make any sense whats so ever.
And again, we are not following amatures anyhow, so it doesn't matter wheather they are listed or not. | |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Denny, that's an easy answer. The list isn't always ready to be released. To be honest, why do they need to release the list of anglers? I mean I know there are inquiring minds that want to see but why release a list and then have to make changes on it? But I would have to say though, that the list usually isn't ready to be released. The tournament coordinator is only one person with many responsibilities, releasing this list is a very minor one for the coordinator on the PWT! | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | T.J. That is one way to look at it. Defend the director. There is a few things you stated that make no sense.
What do you mean, "The list isn't always ready to be released?" I am still trying to figure out that one. Do they not compile a list of players as there entry fee's come in?
You asked, Why do they need to release a list of the anglers? Well, I suppose they don't, because they have not been releasing them in the past. However, I have WORKED in the real world of marketing for over 20 years. If you have a product, and want more people to see it, you use every tool in your box to draw more attention to it. The players are the pawns in there game.
Also, if releasing the players names is very minor, it should not take them long at all. Remember, I to have run tournaments. The basics are very easy. 50 boats or 250 doesnot matter, you must compile a list of entrants as they pay there money, basic stuff maynerd.
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| Stacker,
If you saw the amount of work that goes into these tournaments as Steve and TJ have, the answer would probably smack you in the face, its minor in the lives of the tourney directors. Like TJ says there is whole slew of reasons why the list isn't out to you ASAP. By the way, what tournament circuit do you run?
Ben | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Hi Ben
I have run a 50 boat tournament for 7 years now. Not a circuit, but no different. I have over 10 years experience personnally fishing tournaments as well Ben. Ben, I really don't think It would "Slap me in the face" I allready understand what it takes to run business. Steve mearly said that he thinks the hold up is with co anglers and the pairings. As far as compiling a list, I will ask you to tell me how they compile the list as entry's come in? It must be way more complicated than using a excel program. As far as seeing behind the scenes, don't be so sure others have not as well Ben.
And to quote you, "Like TJ Says, there is a whole slew of reasons why the list isn't out to you asap." If you are in the know, BEN, please, Enlighten us. Otherwise I would like to hear what TJ seems to know. I make a conversation topic and you tell me it cannot be done but have no apparant reason as to why. Defend your statements.
Edited by stacker 4/3/2007 3:04 PM
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Location: Rockford MN | Reason: Because they don't have to, and don't feel a need to. 
Total guess, because I have no idea what it takes them to put on a tour. | |
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| Stacker.
Do you have to pull a semi trailer, stage, boats, make the chamber of commerce contacts, set up the lodging, set up the connections with a resort to base out of, do radio interviews, obtain DNR permits, set up the internet in connections and phone lines for your once a year, 50 boat tournanment? Prizes also have to be obtained from sponsors and loaded to take to the show. I to fish tournaments (musky) and have since the early 90's. I also run an ice fishing tournament, that would be similar to your tourney where all participants throw $50/person into the kitty and biggest pike, walleye, and bass each get 1/3 of the kitty, pretty simple compared to a PWT event. A yearly tourney like your and mine is no comparison to a circuit. Entries can come late, the amatuers field may not be filled, a sponsor could back out etc. The major tourney's also have to run "lean" with staff to keep the payout where the pro's expect them. I guess I might have a little more background on this than most as I live with and have been married to a PWT coordinator for the last 5 years. It can be done like you said, but usually there are bigger fish to fry. In the grand scheme of things, the list is pretty minor.
Just my $.02
Ben | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | OK Ben, and TJ for that matter since it has been our conversation, please tell me this. As entrys are taken and confirmations are sent, because they have a co-or a amature paired with a said pro, in what way do they keep track of this? I ask this, because even a spread sheet will transferr to walleye first so they can list them, even a week before. Don't tell me they don't know who is foishing and who ain't.
Ben, I can understand the many things you listed having to do to get the production ready for a pwt event, but most, if not all of the things, are done way out in advance, or damn sure should be. You call sponsors the week before a event for the prizes? I hardly thing so. If the coordinators do, some one else needs to run that business.
As far as working lean, are you for real. The pros are fishing for there own cash. There is very little, if any of the entry fees that go to pay the employees who are running these tourneys. Sponsorship dollars take care of that.
Even though a small one day tourney cannot start to go against a large pro tour, there is one thing for sure, and that is business is business. Small or large.
That whole first string of work you spit out, is not that hard when it is your only job. | |
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| Stacker,
You crack me up man. When you have some experience with a major tournanment circuit let me know bro. If TJ wants to banter with ya great, otherwise good luck this season.
Ben | |
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Location: Rockford MN | Did the PWT fill Charlie's spot yet, if not Stacker can jump right in and fix all these problems? Just a thought because I can't even imagine how much work it would be to put on a tour over many States and bodies of water. Not to mention all the sponsor related work and events. Maybe when they get millions in TV contracts like other sports they can compete?
I just feel lucky someone does all this so I can fish a few events if I want. | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Ben
Thanks for the chat. Unfortunantly you were unable to come up with a valid reason as to why it would be so difficult to put the names of the participants up a week or two before an event. Since we are not in the sand lot any longer the answer, "Just 'cause", doesn't work any longer.
The floor is still open. | |
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| Just call them and ask them they would be the ones with the answers. Asking the WF people who are not involved isn't going to you the answers you seem to want so call Jim K and ask him. | |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | I have said everything I need to say. Denny, honestly, not to sound like a know it all, but Ben has hit ABSOLUTELY every reason in the book why that list is not available! You could have 100years of experience in marketing or whatever, but the fact is, and the only way I know this is because I do know first hand. And for your comment about defending the tournament directors, I will be the first to do so! I always told Ben's wife that she is probably one of or is the hardest working person on the trail, but don't get me wrong, there are tons of people that make a circuit go round, but I would have to say, without the coordinator, I don't believe a circuit could run at all. You honestly don't have a clue what she goes through to make everything run smoothly! You can sit there and say you do, but you don't! You can sit there and bicker with me all you want but I'm not trying to argue with you on this. The facts have been presented, whether you believe them or not, well that is up to you my friend.
Now, let's just hope Mrs. Meister hasn't been keeping up with this thread, because honestly she could talk you into an early grave if you really wanted to bicker with her on this. | |
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| perhaps nobody has ever asked for them before so before jumping to all these conclusions on why you cant have them maybe someone should ask | |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Guest, Ben is the husband of the Tournament coordinator, and as for me, ya I know from experience with the PWT last season as there summer help. So that's just all first hand information. I wouldn't dare open my mouth like this if I had no clue. That's for darn sure. | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Thank for your input CALL, that makes for some lively conversation for sure. Read the original post. Asked what everybody thought.
Anyone else like to see a list of names fishing these evnts before they start? Go to the flw website and look at there fantasy fishing for the tour bass. That could work very well for the walleye world as well.
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| Thats all fine and dandy, but when givin the answers by people in the know you don't seem to want to hear them. So call Jim K and ask the main man himself, you will get a chance to argue with him about it instead of all the posters here. | |
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| Well merc i guess Ben speaks for the PWT. And there not willing to share who in there tourny i guess thats the final answer for pwt. Slacker maybe you should call FLW and ask them if there willing . You mentioned they had pro's listed for bass maybe they will have no problem with the walleyes side. If someone wants to start a fantasy fishing for the walleye side i personally see no harm. I'd call Flw and ask them they seem to be moving in the right direction and do alot better job promoting walleye fishing. I think this whole post is blown out of its original intentions and turned negative. Now everyone Go fishing! | |
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| Stacker has indeed made a very valid and insightful observation as it relates to the decision of not releasing names prior to the big dance. Walleye fishing tournaments could benefit substantially with sound and creative marketing. I think a lot of us would agree we would all struggle getting excited for a football game if we didn't know who was playing in that coming weekend. Perhaps a week analogy but bass tournaments make every effort to hype the high profile anglers before the event so as to attract our attention. We are probably not as apt to divert attention to the Masters if Tiger Woods is not playing and that is why the media makes damn sure you know he is playing. In addition, the comment about "you have no idea how much work goes into a tournament" is a comment often uttered by failing companies. Working hard is never a prerequisite for success nor should it be an excuse to explore other ideas. | |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | What I don't understand is that people are comparing B.A.S.S to walleyes. Tournament bass fishing has been around since the very early 70's, almost a total of 40 years, with bass being much more wide spread throughout the country. That being said, where do you think the majority of money from sponsors go? Bass fishing or Walleyes? Your not comparring apples to apples. The PWT has been around since the early 90's, almost 20 years now, I know the MWC has a couple years on them but your talking about at almost 20 years more that bass fishing tournaments of any size have been around for a lot longer. It will take time for the walleye gig to get where Bass fishing is at. I understand that they could do a few things to promote the walleye side better but if you look at Bass, it took time to get it where it's at now. That didn't just happen overnight! | |
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You bring up an excellent point regarding how long BASS tournaments have been around but I truly believe this thought process can be dangerous as well. Complacency is often mistaken for laziness although I do not think that is the case here. I simply felt stacker offered a valid and profound point regarding the releasing of names prior to a tournament. I found it interesting that nobody asked how it could be done? Through what media stream? When you would release the names? etc... But rather everyone found holes in his program when perhaps it merely needed a bit of tweaking. I was always under the perception we were in this toghether and that we would all like to see walleye tournaments remain healthy and prosperous. | |
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Location: Rhinelander | I'm here in Chamberlain, and I'll ask for the official response.
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | There was a man named H.H. Dow, who was from Midland MI that started a company called DOW Chemical. Most have heard of this very successful company. His statement of fame went like this, "I can find 100 men that can tell me it cannot be done, I am looking for the 1 who will get it done." I think we have identified some of the 100 on this post. Doing things as they have always been done is not healthy. Waiting till walleye fihing is 40 years old to make changes is not good either.
This has been a good discussion, thanks guys!! | |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Denny, good quote! I am one of those guys that would love to hopefully someday make my mark in getting the walleye gig to be as big as bass one day, but again, if you don't have the help of the sponsors, then it makes it a bit harder to do! Bass is much more wide spread throughout the country. Not to mention this game isn't getting any cheaper these days. I think that is a driving aspect to why there isn't new blood trying to get into the walleye game. It's not like bass where for every guy who calls it quits, there is probably 3 or more willing to jump at the opportunity. I'm not trying to look for excuses here, I'm just saying it takes time for these things to happen. I mean it's only taken Bass tournaments 40years to get where there at now. One thing I learned last year, these things don't happen overnight, you may think they can, but the fact is, they don't! | |
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Location: Rhinelander | The Pro/Co Angler pairings and final Leader board are done the night before the event because of a number of functional aspects, including adding and subtracting Co Anglers and Pros and then re-pairing them because one or more might have to cancel last minute. The PWT told me this morning they are absolute sticklers for accuracy, and do not output the field until it is ready to be entered into the data fields for the Leader Board.
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| TJ, I'm curious how you would propose to grow the sport of walleye tournament fishing? Other than waiting another 20 years. If things were left to remain status quo. I don't believe the sport would grow to the size of bass tournament fishing at it's current "size".
I think Stacker and Jimmer made soem excellent points. How hard would it be to publish a list of names prior to a tournament? The MWC updates thier bulletin board on a daily basis as the early bird entrys come in. They also publish a roster well in advance of the scheduled tourney. They have a trailer and stage and all the hard work too. So yes it can be done. Media Stream....what a great set of words, getting walleye tournament fishing in a media stream, the spot light, the lime light, Attention. Attention from the public is what the sport needs to grow, finding avenues to grab that attention is what will grow the sport. NOT "We're working hard and that's just not important enough for us to deal with".
Good topic. | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Corny phrase game, have you heard that "If you build it, they will come"? I know you are in college, and thats good. Remember that some of us have been in the real world for quite some time. In business there needs to be a road map with destinations. You need to achieve the destinations when you say you will. Sponsors then follow. Sponsors are not road pavers, they are drivers. If you build the map, the sponsors will use the path of least resistance. And why would the sponsors want to give money to a tourney circuit? Because alot of people watch what is happening on the tourney trail and they get there name in front of millions. Who are the fans watching? The pro's. Who is fishing the chamberlain event? I don't know because they don't post the names till the day of the event. How do I get excited about going to the weigh ins? I want to see Pete Harsh, he will be there, Pete fishes them all, he is a Iron Man. NOPE, Pete has made a decision not to fish it. Does this make any sense to you what so ever?
What I bring up is a starting point only. I am not try to map out success for the walleye game, just mentioning what some fans, other than myself, might want to see.
Oh, by the way, it can be like bass in the aspect that players are waiting to get in, because, "If you build it, they will come". | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Steve, thanks for the official word from the PWT. If Jim is watching this, tell him we really don't care about the pairings and if that is what is holding up releasing the names before hand, delete the pairings. We don't really know who the amatures are any how. They are a valuable part so we are not discounting them, but we don't care who is fishing with who. I want to know if my heros will be fishing the event so I can come on out and cheer them on. Not just show up and find they are not there. | |
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Location: upper michigan | I would venture a guess that they have a preety good feal several weeks in advance on what PRO's are fishing these events. Not to demean the importance of the CO but the majority of the sponsorship is not for the CO but for the PRO. I get a fealing that sponsored are not getting enough bang for there buck. In the BASS world not only do you know who is fishing ahead of time but you also get bios of the bass pro's and there sponsors get some coverage also. Sponsores aren't going to offer up big money to grow our sport our sport has to show growth and the sponsores will come. I think a big step in the right direction is to get a list of the PRO's that are fishing these events up at least 2 weeks in advance would make for a little more intersting debate comeing into the tourney and maybe even some play along games like a fantasy fishing league. | |
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Location: Rhinelander | Stacker,
Makes sense, I'll pass this on! | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Thanks Steve. | |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Stacker,
I totally understand what your saying, but what I'm trying to get to here is if you don't have the sponsors to help drive the drivers you won't have any drivers period. Stacker, do you have any idea what it costs on an average for a guy who fishes the PWT and FLW for one tournament? What I'm trying to say is, you cannot do this alone unless your in a different league then most with your financial situation but a majority of guys are not in this situation to be able to play the game without the sponsors. I mean there has been countless guys that have come and gone because mainly it's due to lack of funds to do it. That's why you don't have all the new young blood consistantly sticking with the walleye gig. Now look at the Bass side, when the money is there to support these guys, there is a lot more youth coming up. Take Mr. Gatzke for example, he won the Winneconne tourney last year, didn't have the type of rookie year he imagined, so he was basically left to fish two more tournaments last year, and bam he hit a home run and won a tourny. Had he not, he probably wouldnt be where he is now if he hadn't won that tournament. The cost of these tournaments for these guys is whats keeping this from getting bigger. Guys can't get to the status like the bass guys without the support from there sponsors. | |
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| It's even more expensive in the bass world, TJ. I don't understand your point? The Elite 50 last time I checked was $5000 to enter (last time I checked was a year or two ago so forgive me if that is not current)
Bass is bigger, the entry fees are bigger,the paydays are bigger. Most importantly the audience is much bigger. | |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Merckid
I think you are talking about individuals when we are talking about the pwt as a whole. As far a sponsors for individual fisherman, that is up to them. As far as sponsorship of the series, I don't think you understand that game.
I know it is hard for you to fathom at this point in your life, but many many people can afford to fish the pwt series out of pocket. In about 20 years you will understand. I do know what it takes financially to fish them. I have been around this game, playing and watching from the start of the mwc back in the 80's. I dont think you were even born yet.
As far as guys coming and going, that happens at all levels. I have seen many a teams come into circuits and spout off that they will be taking everybodys money and after 2 years, there wife takes there gonads back and puts them in her purse. He is done playing. Money is a factor, but crushed ego's go ALOT FARTHER.
The cost of the tournaments are not whats keeping this from getting bigger, B.A.S.S. and the FLW Tour shows that. Lack of something is stopping it from growing faster. I brought up the point of fan participation as being a factor, thats what started all this.
Does anyone else have any other ideas?
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Ok, what I'm saying is, Stacker wants to see a list in advance. Well this list isn't always complete due the fact that things can change so much. What I mean by that is guys dropping out due to money situations, other problems, or they can't commit to fishing the whole circuit because they can't afford it. So not every tournament field is going to be the same like the bass guys. Now if you compare the Elite 50 with the Super Pro field, then that would be very close. Because the guys that fish on the Super Pro side have more than likely committed to fishing those Super Pro tournies already, and thats a set field. So once you see the list for that field, it's more than likely those guys will definitely be fishing the next Super Pro event. The bass side is different cause they have consistant players that no matter what, if a guy backs out at the last second then they can fill it automatically or they just go to the next person on the list, but that's so not likely on the Bass side that it's a huge deal.
Audience is bigger cause again, Bass fishing is much more widespread, people take more interest in it because you can fish bass in just about every state in the US, not to mention over seas. You still can't fairly compare bass fishing tournaments to walleye tournaments.
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Stacker,
I fully understand and I'm aware of what your talking about, I maybe 20 but I understand what your talking about. I guess all I can say is think what you want, I'm just that 20 year old that knows nothing about nothing. But that's fine, blame it on my age, won't bruise my ego. | |
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| I wish I would have know that they did'nt have a full field, I could have fished and then got into the one I really wanted (Mille lacs) instead I could'nt get a answer if they had openings????? Why is it so hard to just get into an event? Had they just said if you fish 2 you can get in, I would have been there! | |
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| Rosters change in every team sport, baseball, football, basketball. Individual sports change too, people pull out of golf tournaments, tennis tournaments. It's not a big deal, in fact it's news gathering. John Daly going to a clinic for treament for alcohol is a good example. Is it good news? Not always, but chances are you know John Daly's name.
The local newspaper will have a roster of today's games in baseball, basketball, this weekends golf tournament, granted some of it is assumption and/or speculation, but it's there for people to follow. Key word here is people.....the more people following walleye tournament fishing, the more likely the sport is going to grow. A list or roster for each event is very do-able and should be important, anything that gets people to watch/follow the "game" is important.
By the way, TJ, Stacker is running the Fort Fremont Walleye Classic on April 14th. I highly recommend you come on down and watch the weigh-in. I think you'll be surprised given the size of the field. | |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Jayman,
I know how the game works, I saw it first hand ALL last season on the PWT. Promotion and marketing is what makes something bigger and better but you can't do it without the guys to do it! | |
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| I ask again, How would you promote it and market it to grow the sport of walleye tournament fishing?
I've only heard you say don't change a thing, other than maybe lower entry fees. And that putting out a list of names who are fishing an event is too hard to do 'til the last minute
How would YOU make it better? | |
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Location: upper michigan | How hard can it be to release a list of names for all the pro's that signed up for an event or all the events if they paid they should be on the roster pretty basic. | |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Jaymen, here is a few of my ideas, not saying this is going to happen but you asked how I would strive to make the sport of walleye tournament fishing better?
#1. Well first off, and this is my idea, whether it would work I do not know but these are some ideas I would highly suggest and push for. Look at BASS, you know how much hype the BASS Master Classic gets because they air that live. You air the FLW and PWT championships live on a national television, that will draw attention right there alone! I understand you have to have money, and the resources to do it, but I'm saying this is how I would push to make walleye tournament fishing better and to promote it.
#2. Another huge thing that I know numberous colleges have is college bass fishing teams. You want to promote tournament fishing, well this is the place to do it. This is where a young anglers career could begin. Here is the bass link to this, very interesting. Even good ole Wisconsin has a team. Not only would this help promote tournament fishing, but it would also lead to better numbers going or wanting to go pro once they come out of college.
http://www.collegebass.com/
#3. The next aspect and probably one of the biggest things you need to push is the youth programs. Getting kids in the outdoors. I know at the PWT Championship many of the pros take time to visit area schools and talk about fishing, bringing along there boats and letting them crawl all over them.
These few things are just a few ideas I personally have, I'm sure there are people with there doubts but these are ideas to make walleye tournament fishing bigger and better.
Edited by Merckid 4/4/2007 2:25 PM
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| TJ, it's Jayman, only me, not "playing" behind multiple handles. Hopefully it's just a typo.
Idea's, finally now we're getting somewhere. I agree, ultimately getting the FLW tour championship and the PWT championship on live TV would be a good thing. The costs to implement make it challenging and a risk. Walleye fishing needs to develop some personalities. Tommy Skarlis comes to mind, love him or hate him, he does well in front of the camera. Mike Iconelli is another fine example, even if you don't follow Bass tourneys, if you fish, there's a pretty good chance you've heard this guys name.
College walleye, not a bad idea, income of college kids is extremely limited the NCAA would have to figure out a way to make money off it before it would become successfull? add a little sarcasm here, the NCAA is a "machine" at making money off "poor college" kids.
Youth Programs, while I agree getting youth into a sport early in their life will likely result in a life long passion for a sport. Getting parents to bring their children into a sport is even more important. By that I mean, if dad goes fishing 1 or 2 weekends out of the month, there is a good chance Dad's kids are going to go fishing with dad and be exposed to the sport. How do you get dad to come out to a tournament weigh-in and bring the kids?
I think one thing that needs to happen in walleye tournament fishing right now, is the PWT vs FLW needs to end and become more of a partnership. Competition between two circuits is great, as long as it's friendly competition. People tend to focus on the negatives and bash which results in nothing good. Having an option is always a good thing, bashing one circuit til one finally gets ran out of town is not going to help us in the long run.
Participation, getting "fans" out to tournament weigh-ins. Tournaments need "hooks", something to bring the folks out. If you can get them to come out for other activities while the field is out fishing, the gathering of people which results in exposure, is going to hang around for the weigh-in. They got a stage, use it. Live music, comedy acts, tap into local talent. yes it's more work and more planning but it gives a community a chance to showcase itself while "tourists" are in town.
Vendor/Sponsor participation, get these people out to represent themselves if possible. Not neccessarily as a "show" rep. but as a participant, Maybe XYZ for such and such company comes up the stage to introduce big fish honors, or such. Let the vendors/sponors get their exposure by participating not just giving thier product spiel, people get bored with commericals real quick.
Camera feeds, right now the big tourneys have camera boats out filming how hard would it be to set up a couple big screen TV's near a leader board or stage and show the fishermen fishing as the camera boats are out filming, with this day and age of wireless technology. Cabela's NTC does a nice job of showing the fishermen fishing while they weigh-in their baskets. I'm suggesting to expand on this.
Corporate sponsors, set-up a place for corporate sponsors to meet. Their is a lot of business that is conducted at sporting events, I'm sure many of you have heard of Skyboxes, Luxury Seeting, Corporate Seating, Corporate Pit Passes, Sponsor Gallery. When XYZ company comes out to see thier product represented they can still do business, bring key customers out to see first hand.
More people, more exposure. | |
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| It would be terrific if the walleye tournament scene grew to the size of bass events, but it can't, the numbers don't support it.
According to a variety of surveys, some by the USFWS, some by the sporting goods retailers, the total percentage of anglers who fish for bass is somewhere around 60 percent. They are available in every one of the lower 48 states, plus Hawaii.
Plus, getting people excited about bass fishing, redfish, tarpon or even sharks is much easier than walleyes. The reason is simple, all of these fish provide a more exciting physical fishing experience. While trolling leadcore on the Illinois for 3-pound saugers is exciting to us, or pulling boards for big walleyes on the Great Lakes may produce some slabs, it doesn't compare to the strength a redfish has or the explosive, although brief, fight a bass provides when taking a topwater or the gutting wrenching power a tarpon or shark has. All of these can be presented well in television formats and make "exciting" television.
Walleye fishing tournament coverage is generally only of interest to anglers who like to fish walleye tournaments or are thinking about fishing them. There are many walleye anglers who detest tournaments. I don;t know the numbers, but I'd guess an awful lot of the bass guys are fans of tournament fishing.
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| There once was a time when baseball was considered America's past time. I think the demographics have changed to Football since.
So long as people within the walleye community view our sport as a boring sport, it will remain a boring sport. Change has to come from within, not outside. | |
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| It is refreshing to witness a post that has been conducted with professionalism and well thought out opinions. For the most part everyone has restrained from personal attacks as well as finger pointing. Walleye tournaments do indeed have a long haul before they become a mainstream in every day sports. Hell, even BASS fishing is still struggling with being accepted as a legitimate sport but it has made impressive strides. To stay on topic, it is extremely difficult for a lot us to understand why tournament directors do not hype the big names prior to the tournament. I sincerely believe, just like any successful corporation, the product is the people. Trust me... The Packers are far more marketable when you toss in the name Brett Favre. I truly wonder how many tournament directors have actually researched the cost benefit of releasing the names prior to a tournament. | |
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| Jayman,
I certainly don't think our sport is boring, to the contrary. It's so exciting to head out onto the water at the start of an event and do battle with the elements and outwit the walleyes. It's awesome.
Boring to us who participate, no. Boring to those who simply observe and never participate, probably.
Walleye fishing is a sport you need to do to really understand. Casual observers can see the BASS Elite Series, FLW Redfish shows or Tarpon Tournament Series on TV and get it. But all of us pulling boards for fish that don't battle with flying leaps and drag screaming runs is difficult for casual observers to understand.
We need to recruit more anglers to the sport and share our talents to get this sport to grow.
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | This is a quote from Numbers:
Walleye fishing tournament coverage is generally only of interest to anglers who like to fish walleye tournaments or are thinking about fishing them. There are many walleye anglers who detest tournaments. I don;t know the numbers, but I'd guess an awful lot of the bass guys are fans of tournament fishing.
This is a good statement. Lets start with the section that says, generally only of interest to anglers fishing or thinking of fishing tourneys.
How do you get more people interested in watching?? My initial post suggested listing the players and getting fans for each player, very much like bass and nascar. It works. support for individual players.
The next quote is many "fisherman detest tournaments. I guess many bass guys like tournys."
Well, I know alot of bass guys, and they idolize and buy what there heros say is the best, yet they are not tournament fisherman. woo davis rods and gary yamamoto plastics and so on and so on. How do they do this? marketing of the fisherman, it all starts by telling the world who is playing the game come saturday.
When I bring up listing the players, that is just that, list the players. Tell us who we are cheering for and start to tell the world who they are. Has anyone noticed that the FLW Walleye mag has had the top league anglers showcased the last few months. You want more guys in your sport? showcase them, Ego's are everything. I want my picture in there as well. Why would Stacker need to see a list of players before hand? Well, I hope this spells it out a bit better.
Honestly, if you put more into this thought process, you are over thinking marketing 101.
To T.J.= Getting a attitude when someone is proposing a idea that has not been introduced to you before because it has not been the "Norm" is no way to get ahead in life. Open mind. | |
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| Numbers,
It's not boring, maybe to the casual observer it is. I understand, you're nto going to get everyone. I personally find Nascar boring, I can watch cars go in circles for about 5-10 laps and then it looks the same. The animosity between drivers and teams is more exciting to readon monday morning than the race itself. I not a follower of nascar, but I can tell you a good handful of names of drivers.
Like Stacker said get the names out there, market the players.
I watched last years FLW League championship on DVD, I know John Schnieder personally, but watching him on TV. The guy has energy and was fun to watch. It can be done. We just need to get the publics attention.
And before anyone thinks I'm overstating this, NO, I don't think Walleye tournament fishing is ever going to be as big as Football, Baseball, or Basketball. But I'm willing to bet there are more everyday people that fish than there are that play those three major sports, beyond highschool.
"but we keep getting richer, but we can't get our picture on the cover of the Rolling Stone" | |
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| I am new to Walleye fishing, what I do not like about the tourey's, is the PRO making all the decisions. Now I understand it's their boat, but telling me what to fish with and what lure I am allowed to use and when I can or can't fish and how many poles. In the bass world the am. brings three or four rods, a couple of tackle boxes and they fish from the same boat, but if Iwant to throw a crank, I thow it, I don't have to ask permisson, or if I want th throw a jig I throw a jig. Now If the pro wants to troll, so be it, or stop and jig so be it. But to have total control over the am is the one reason many of use will not fish at the large tourneys. We run our local club events with new people and seasoned people, the person who owns the boat decides whether to stop or troll, but the other guy throws whatever type of lure they want. Just my thoughts.
P.S. you can fish for Walleye in 3/4 of the United States, west to the mountain states, south to Arkansas and east to the ocean ecept for the deep south. | |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | I'm more than happy to be the punching bag of your very direct comments to me, no big deal. Most people will never fully understand absolutely everything on how these things are handled because your not there at the PWT and FLW events on a daily basis, I WAS! You just won't understand it. I understand marketing just fine in the fact of posting a list, I totally do. But your not reaching your full marketing potential by just putting them on the internet. You want people to notice these guys and what this walleye game is all about, well it has more to do with than just posting a list of who's fishing. To be honest, it's more of in my opinion the work of the anglers to get out there and promote the tournaments and to draw attention through shows during the winter, doing T.V. shows like The Next Bite, The Glorvigens show, and any other shows that these pros are able to get themselves on. A tournament trail can't get bigger by simply putting names up on there site. Have you taken a look lately at the Walleye In-sider? They don't go a month without talking about the tournaments and promoting them. The In-Fish magazine also runs flyers in almost every magazine they put out for the tournaments. The last time I checked, the In-Fish magazine was the most widely distributed fishing magazine in the industry of it's kind. But the kicker is T.V., you want more attention, I told you where you can get it. Broadcast at least those championships live and you will get attention! People that really don't even care about tournament fishing tune into the BASS Master Classic cause it's live, it gets air time and then mix in some controversy things that have happened the last couple Classics, that will draw attention! It may not always be good controversy but people will want to know whats going on. The internet is, yes a very important tool in promoting, but there is much more than just posting a list! It's a culmination of T.V., radio, print and probably a very unthoughtful source is "here say". People talk to other people and that's how they get drawn into wanting to know what this is all about.
Marketing 101, ha, it's more like commen sense 101! Your simply talking about a list, how is a single list going make the tournament trail bigger and better? You need way more than just a "list." I'm not saying a list won't help, because you are right, it won't hurt anything, it can only help by getting that list out there. But like I keep saying, you want this game to get bigger and better, get some of these tournaments live on national t.v. like BASS and you WILL see more attention then! But go ahead, keep taking your knocks on a college kid, I may be 20 but do not blame my expressiveness on being young. I'm fully away of what I'm saying, but then again I'm not the average college kid when it comes to this!
Edited by Merckid 4/5/2007 4:09 PM
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| It would seem the directors of the FLW are adopting the ideas to which Stacker has proposed. A move in the right direction that even Merckid would have to agree with.
http://walleyetour.flwoutdoors.com/
See Pundits' Picks | |
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Location: upper michigan | Lets put it this way you have to start somewhere and knowing who the players are would be a huge step in the right direction. | |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Merckid, Jayman, and Stacker:
Very interesting thread. The more I read the more I believe that you are all saying the same thing. You all want what was is best for the sport and the fisherman. The thread has evolved from a simple question of “why not release the names earlier”, to how can we all work outside the box to promote the walleye industry.
As far as releasing names, the main question is what’s in for the Tournament Series. They are the ones that should be (and I’m sure are) asking what are the pluses and minuses of the decision. I’d guess (because I do not have the insights of Merckid and Stacker) that the organizers always want to show a full field before releasing names. The more the better. They show growth, importance to sponsors and strength as an organization by showing as many entrants as possible. I also believe that threads like this are positive and that they read them. Your conversation may be showing them another option. You are showing them a need that they may not have considered before. Accolades to all of you for putting this in the spot light.
My take on making the sport more interesting involves the personal interest stories. Some of us will always watch the shows and read the articles because of our love and passion for the sport. But to grow, we need to attract others. I believe that we need to put a story with a name and give people a reason for wanting to follow the individual through the season. The idea of having a fantasy fishing league is a great idea. It gives a reason to follow individuals but we can do more. Take my buddy, Eric Schuelke as an example. I believe that it would be interesting for people to know what he went through to get to the PWT and win a fourth place finish. How many know that he had MAJOR back surgery this winter? How many know that he has been struggling with back problems for some time and scheduled his operation so he would be able to get into the boat in time to do tournaments this year? Would people be interested in knowing that he risked his physical health last year? That he had to pull out of tournaments at the end of the season because the doctor said that he could end up paralyzed? These are the kinds of stories that make interesting reading that people like to follow.
Some would think that with a one day tournament, the PWT will have a hard time coming up with a show. IMHO nothing could be further from the truth. Show the conditions, show people coming off the water on Tuesday with ice on their bodies and on the equipment. Give a quick lesson on hypothermia and what could happen if someone did fall in. Make it interesting and give lessons for everyone to learn.
Merckid, you have knowledge beyond your years. Continue to give us insights learned from your experiences behind the scenes with the PWT. Stacker please give all us more information on what it takes to organize an event. Both of you have stories to tell and I and others look forward to hearing them.
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Well, I think I made my point, and several people have understood. I will leave it at that. I hope that one of the 2 circuits decide to lead the way for the future fans.
Denny Fox
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Location: Rhinelander | I spoke with Julie at the PWT this week, and she said it would be possible to list the Pros in advance. I'll be encouraging that as the year progresses.
We would appreciate the listing as well, as we can and do link all the ranked Pros in the WWR. The exposure through the rankings is 'fan based' to a large degree, so I get what Denny is trying to say.
Here's the most popular pick from the 'ten most popular' from this week, it's not rocket science to see why.
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/rankings_fisherman.asp?fmid=9452&r...
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Location: Elgin, Illinois | Dennis we have talked about this before... But, I truly believe you are onto something... Generate local interest and the effects will grow "outside the box". I would like to see the Pro circuits encourage a few pros (rotating or whatever) to take out local celebrities prefishing... Get the local paper/TV outlet to spearhead finding the right four or five choices... "A local hero", the Mayor, a Congressman, The Governor or Lt. Governor, a "high school kid" picked from a random drawing, a local sports figure... you name it... somebody that would be a great local interest 30-45 second spot or short article in the paper... Work through a local bait shop or the local Walmart to raffle off a 1/2 day in the boat with a pro for a few dollars that are then donated to a food pantry, Habityat for Humanity, the local YMCA, Boys and Girls Club, whatever... Something that would get the local media down to the launch site and later in the day to get an interview with these lucky folks... Talk about exposure for Sponsors... Free Media... | |
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As Big as Bass?