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| I wanted to ask your advise on leaders when trolling smaller cranks for 'eyes but the lake has good population of pike. I tried a light pike wire leader last year with the smallest Salmo Bullhead DR (other smaller sized cranks) and it deadened the action to much. I was thinking of try flouro leaders this year just heavy enough that I can save my lures from the pike and not hurt the action of the lure. But I don't know how big I can go in lbs before the same deadening effect happens. I use 8# mono right now as the main line. Any experiences or insights are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Mike |
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| I normally use 17 lb. flourocarbon leaders. I use it all the time on my crawler harnesses. It stands up pretty good to the zebra muscles. I have caught muskies on it without any break offs. Hope this helps. |
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Member
Posts: 238
| I use #4 and # 5 Shad Raps almost exclusively and I run an 18 inch piece of 10/4 Crystal Fireline leader in front of all of my cranks. I use a barrel swivel off the main line and a number 1 or 2 clip on the crank. Do not use a clip swivel, and dont try the fireline trick with livebait rigs. |
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Member
Posts: 1195
Location: Orland Park, IL | Was going to suggest fireline. That may be a good solution. Gamma? |
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| Thanks for the tips. I will have to give it a shot and see if they hold up to the occassional slimmer!
Thanks again.. |
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Member
Posts: 1656
| Mike, you may want to tie your cranks on using a Rapala loop knot. This way you can get away with a much heavier line and not sacrifice action.
As suggested earlier, might want to give the crystal fire line a try. 8# fireline will put up with A LOT more abuse than 8 # mono. I haven't used much crystal fire line with direct ties to cranks to say for sure that it's effective. I've been trying some since last year and it seems just like regualr old fireline except white. Haven't noticed any negative effects from the fish...yet.
Good luck
Edited by Jayman 5/9/2007 4:23 PM
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Member
Posts: 238
| Jayman~
With the #1 or #2 clip on the crankbait it acts alot like the Rapala loop not. My post didnt really mean you had to use Crystal, thats just what I use because its closer to being clear. I have really good luck with my system, and I just wanted to clarify any questions anyone might have! Good Luck guys see ya on the water!
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| Jayman - 5/9/2007 4:21 PM
8# fireline will put up with A LOT more abuse than 8 # mono.
This is a fairly common belief, but this is not true. The abrasion resistance of super braid is much lower than that of mono. |
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Member
Posts: 1656
| Guest, I'll let ya try the "Jayman" challenge.
Go to your favorite sporting good stores. 1st wrap some 6# test mono around both index fingers and give it a good snap, trying to break it. I can break Berkely Xl and XT on routine basis. Next grab some 6#test fireline or any other braid "super" line and wrap it around your fingers the same way and try to snap the line by giving it a quick snap.
Note: bring a first aid kit, 'cuase if you did it right you will slice your fingers open on the super line and won't break it.
Those are my results, and I can't argue with them. To each their own.
Edited by Jayman 5/10/2007 4:03 PM
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| Jayman - 5/10/2007 4:01 PM
Guest, I'll let ya try the "Jayman" challenge.
Go to your favorite sporting good stores. 1st wrap some 6# test mono around both index fingers and give it a good snap, trying to break it. I can break Berkely Xl and XT on routine basis. Next grab some 6#test fireline or any other braid "super" line and wrap it around your fingers the same way and try to snap the line by giving it a quick snap.
Note: bring a first aid kit, 'cuase if you did it right you will slice your fingers open on the super line and won't break it.
Those are my results, and I can't argue with them. To each their own.
Your "challenge" proves absolutely nothing about abrasion resistance, which is what I am talking about.
I've got a challenge for you. Take a fillet knife to 8 pound mono and then to 8 pound fireline. This is testing abrasion resistance. Let me know which one is easier to cut. I already know the answer.
Luke |
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Member
Posts: 35
| I actually think both of your methodologies are potentially flawed. You are talking abrasion resistance correct? Take both lines of the same pound test; put them under tension, nothing extreme a couple of pounds is sufficient. Now take sand paper or emery cloth and rub both until failure, you can perform the test dry or wet (use a squirt bottle). Count the number strokes until failure. This would be probably the closest an average guy could come to an unbiased ASTM style test. Let me know what you guys find out... |
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| I've ran super braids with a snap to my cranks and had roughly the same issues with break offs or maybe slightly more. I never kept a running total so I'm going off of memory. I liked the super braid a little more for trolling because the action of the waves and boat turns seem to get transfered more into the lure giving it more erratic action and seemed to add a few more fish on tougher days but after a pike or a few walleyes having to snip the line and re-tie took a little longer and was a pain compared to mono. Especially when a guy forgets his clippers or knife  That's why I was asking about flouro because people talk about it's abrasion resistance. I like hearing peoples experiences and input so keep it coming. As far as impact strength with knicks or cuts I would have to still vote for mono but each has its place. I've also thought about making my own light weight leaders using Ti leader material or stuff like Tyger wire.
Thanks for the input and good discussion
Mike |
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Member
Posts: 1656
| Okay, my test was more aimed at tensile strength, if we're calling spades a spade. My point was that the 6# fire line is stronger than the 6# mono.
As for abrasion resistence, I pull harnesses with glass beads occasionally. Many times the glass still has a burr from making the hole. If used on mono or floro, there's a good chance after letting it run for ahile you're going to reel in an empty line. The glass will cut it. The solution....ba da bing....we use fire line. It works, that's fact.
Now to take it a step further, the original question was small cranks, 6# fireline will be more limp than 6# mono. More limp = better action, especially on subtle action baits.
Enjoy your mono! |
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Last Summer I lost about 10 topwater baits in a day to small pike while fishing smallies. This was 10/2 power pro and if it crossed their teeth it sliced right through. I did not switch to leaders because I didn't want to kill the action and instead lost probably $50.00 worth of baits. I take the same philosophy with trolling for walleyes. But I have lost a lot less trolled baits than topwaters just by the nature of a typical trolling hookup. Caught four pike last night without a single nick. Was using 10# Pline Flouro(the special leader kind). That stuff is pricy but pretty tough. |
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| Jayman, I agree with the getting better action with the braids, especially with smaller cranks. And an added bonus is 'broader' depth curve. When I was trolling with braids I really liked it. I've heard others talk about the fish seeing the line but I wasn't to worried. The line is so thin and the added action offsets any visibility issues, plus trolling cranks is more of a reaction bite. Not to often they get to hover over and examine it like they can when jigging. I was just looking for options to keep me from loosing baits to pike. I pull in the occassional 35-40"er on some of these lakes which I will have to deal with (and enjoy the fight really) but I hate loosing baits to hammer handles and they actually seem to cut the line more than bigger pike.
Maybe my only option is to suck it up and chalk it the 'That's Fishin' category.
Thanks again,
Mike |
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Member
Posts: 1656
| Mike,
I'm an analyzing kinda guy, I'd bump up a set of rods with heavy leaders and compare that to the "regular" leads you're using now. My guess is you'll find some kind of threshold where the leader will be too heavy and actually hurt your bite, perhaps 8# is a bit light?
I pull 20# fireline on trolling rods and use 14 or 17# florocarbon leads/harnesses in most cases. However, because I'm using this set-up, it may not be the best set-up for you.
Trolling is about patterns and disecting patterns to figure out "exactly" what the fish want. Just remember one fish is not a pattern.
Good Luck |
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Member
Posts: 64
Location: Winneconne | I pretty much fish the upper lakes exclusively from April through July 4th, so i have quite a few run ins while trolling with Pike, what i do to help combat them, and ive yet to lose a bait due to bite through is i run a 12" leader of 65# spiderwire. IMO, it dont hurt lure action at all, as from what ive seen, most days im catching as many if not more fish than those fishing the same area i am.
My $.02, take it for what its worth |
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Leader Material for smaller cranks