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| Hello,
Edited by Purple Skeeter 5/22/2007 5:21 PM
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Member
Posts: 67
| So what is the DNR telling us. Gee they do not want you to return fish with the virus to the water but they do not want to exclude them from your bag limit. How many guys are going to keep a fish with the virus if they catch it and have to count it in their bag limit, but can not eat it? I would hope that if they are serious about getting the infected fish out of the system they rethink this...... |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | With as much respect as possible, why is it SO hard to do the right thing here? Is not being able to eat one more fish really that big of a burden? |
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Location: Menasha, WI | I spoke to the DNR today and want to clarify a few things with the recent outbreak of the VHS virus. First of all, the law says that you must drain your bilge and your livewell, and that all fish must be dead. I questioned the DNR on this, and this is what Todd told me. He said, that the livewells must be drained before leaving the launches, but that your fish can still be alive. I told him that the DNR needs to clarify this matter for all of us, he agreed. I also asked him about the fact that if I do or do again, to clarify, catch a fish which appears to have the VHS virus on it, what do you want me to do with it. For one, I do not want to keep it, and second, I do not wnt to eat it. His response was, you might as well let the fish go back to the system, after all, the disease is here and we cannot control it at this point. |
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Posts: 744
| I agree it should count towards your bag limit. I can see the arguments now how any little defect on a fish simply must be VHS and therefore 13 of the 18 fish in my livewell don't count towards my limit.
Dave S
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| Is a fish that has VHS going to die ? It is now stressed, and are the odds stacked against it. How long will a fish have VHS? Will VHS run its course and the fish is again healthy before we hit the cool down temp when most fish die from it? I am not sure at this point if any one knows. We must do what we all feel is right and at some point, time may tell all of us what was the right way. I myself will just keep the sick fish and give it to my garden. I am not starving but may be soon with the cost of gas. |
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Posts: 1406
| Be a Steward for your sport and remove those infected fish from the system! If you think getting your limit everytime out is a necessity than you need to take up a different sport!
Good luck
Tyee |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Do the right thing folks: take the fish that is suspected of being infected out of the system and bury it. One less fish for the dinner table isn't going to make that big of a difference. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | You all have good intentions BUT........
You guys are confusing me a little. Why not eat it? I have read nowhere that it is harmful to you. Chances are many of you have been eating them for some time. My fear is that any fish with a scratch or scare will be deemed VHS infected and wasted in your garden. Is this what we want? Many of you have been releasing sheapshead for years saying it doesn't make any difference to the system. How is this any different? Do you really believe that 50-100 fish will make an impact to the spread? Especially since we will have people making the call on what is infected with no training. Heck, DNR must do testing to know for sure instead of visual inspection. This is getting ugly.
Seems to me that sheapshead are more susceptible to this disease than other fish. Shouldn’t we kill everyone we meet?
We are all jumping the gun with our armchair biologist thinking. For all we know the best thing is for everyone to kill everything they catch. Doesn’t this help reduce the spread? Don’t get me wrong, I do not like the thought of harvesting all fish but for all you know this may be what is best for the system. For all we know, the DNR may say all tournaments on the system should be kill tournaments to reduce the herd. We may experience massive die-offs this coming ice-out and wished we had kept more fish instead of them going to waste.
Bottom-line is that you all have good intentions but should wait for official word from the experts. Unfortunately, I’m not sure that we have any experts on VHS in Wisconsin.
On another note since I’m already confusing and upsetting some of you………..
I stood at the release tanks of the MWS tournament for awhile and I am totally convinced that there were a lot of fish infected with VHS going back to the water. I sure wish that the DNR were there to check. My conspiracy theory tells me that they know its been there for sometime. How many of you are like me and when I think back of all the fish I have caught the last few years on Green Bay, I realize now that those “beat up” fish had the virus.
Upsetting news No. 2
My other thread here on WF talks of the elimination of all stocking, egg gathering and transfer of fish among hatcheries. This is a major issue and I believe one that the DNR should not be doing. They need to explain this to us. I understand that they do not want to spread the virus BUT they can do the testing. There are too many of our lakes and programs that desperately need stocking to survive. Heck, bago may need major stocking in a few years. We should be beefing up stocking not stopping it. I believe this is a budgetary issue and has nothing to do with pure science. You listening DNR? Please explain yourself.
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | The symptoms of a fish infected with VHS
Like many fish diseases, the type of symptoms present in a fish change with the severity of the infection. At low infection intensity, fish may display few to no symptoms. Hatchery or pen-reared fish are much more susceptible to most fish diseases because they are confined. As the infection severity increases, signs include bulging eyes, bloated abdomens, inactive or overactive behavior, bleeding in the eyes, skin, gills and at the base of the fins. Because many of these signs look like those caused by other fish diseases, testing is necessary to determine whether a fish is infected with VHS.
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Sorry sunshine, but I don't make a habit of eating diseased animals. In a number of years if nothing comes of VHS, I may change my mind, but at this point in time, bloody, bulging eyed walleye feed the flowers, the healthy looking ones will feed me.
On the stocking, I think that's a smart move to temporarily suspend it. Let the DNR have some time to evaluate what is going on, then resume the stocking activities. Here's a quote from one article I found on the topic:
"Overall, the DNR fish stocking program can contribute about 10 percent of a lake's fish population. At issue is 10 to 12 million fish at 13 DNR fish hatcheries across Wisconsin -- and their source of fresh water.
One in Madison raises fish using a closed water system that's not linked to any lake or river. But top fisheries officials said nearly every other hatchery is."
It is possible that this virus has been around for years and is nothing to worry about. It is also possible that the disease is new to the area an represents a huge potential for some very bad fish kills. Personally, I'd rather see the DNR error on the side of safety on this one. |
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| I agree Dennis, eat what you want but please..if you find an infected fish I believe the DNR recomends removing it from the system.
Regarding Stocking I too think suspending all stocking untill testing of those hatcheries is done.
Does anyone know if there is funding available for this? I believe when CWD became an issue in WI there was a ton of money that was made available for research, does anyone know how this is being addressed or if it is?
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I agree with you Brad BUT you trust the DNR on other assessments why not this? According to the DNR:
Can I eat my catch?
Yes. VHS is not a health risk for people. We want you to continue to enjoy fishing and eating your catch. Having the virus in Wisconsin waters means that we all need to be more careful when we recreate to avoid accidentally moving fish, plants, and water to new lakes or rivers. You've long been taking many of the same precautions to help keep our lakes free of other invasive species like zebra mussels and rusty crayfish. Wisconsin has thousands of great places to fish and boat. With your help, we can keep it that way.
Chances are, you have been and will continue to eat infected fish.
As a side note, ever eat stewed tomatoes or apple sauce? Think they use the best ingrediants there? 
http://media2.wi.gov/DNR/Viewer/Viewers/ViewerAudioOnlyNoSlides.asp...
Edited by Sunshine 5/23/2007 9:58 AM
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Location: Berlin | I will eat them. Bring me all your VHS infested walleyes (if they even exist). The ones that are real bad I can just give to my in-laws. Even if you find them floating, bring them over. That is what they make seasoning for. I could see if you are not cooking them but come on, we are all going to die anyway. If it bothers you that you are now a few fish short for the table, I usually have some fresh muskie fillets I could trade for them.
Edited by Rich S 5/23/2007 12:08 PM
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Posts: 125
| Gents, I posted this yesterday on the VHS venting thread but not sure if anyone saw it since it was after the pictures from the locks......
Anyone know why in the "Emergency Rules" they have not included boats equipped with I/O engines. Or maybe they have and I missed it?
Last I checked most of those boats hold significance amounts of water in the motor that is purged when the motor is run.
So lets say a runabout with a mercruiser is on Bago for the day. He pulls out at the end of the day and his motor is now holding about 3 gals of Bago water in its cooling system. Now the next day he decides to trailer up to Shawano and go boating. When he dumps in and fires up the motor it now exchanges that 3 gal of Bago water for Shawano water.
Am I off base or was there something I miseed in the rules about purging your I/O? |
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| Fin, Does the internal temp of the water reach a level high enough to kill the virus while cooling the motor? Puprle Skeeter |
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Posts: 538
| Dennis,
From what I have read on DNR sites, the concern is spreading the virus from infected to clean lakes. I do not blame them for being very cautious on this issue.
Regarding putting infected fish in your livewell, doesn't that guarantee that you now have a livewell and pump system fully infected with the virus. If we told everyone not to put it in their boat, aren't we lessening the chance of a less than thorough system cleaning infecting other waters?
Regarding moving live fish off the lake, I thought the intent was to prevent
"restocking" of fish from the infected lakes to others. I have never actualy witnessed "restocking" but have heard anectdotal evidence often.
Just a thought.
Jim O |
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| I was under the impression that temps both hot and cold (short of frying in hot oil) would not kill VHS. You can freeze Smelt and that will not kill it I doubt the water in those cooling systems gets hot enough to kill it.
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Location: Menasha, WI | LarryS posted in another thread that temps exceeding 132 degrees F would effectively decontaminate. |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | is a fish with vhs now stressed .. is a fish caught and released stressed .. ? all this stress , stress stress... NOW IM STESSED, a fish has a life full of stress .. finding something to eat.. trying not to be eaten... a cold front moves in drops the temp. and the fish is parilized for the day or so... it wants to eat.. just cant go... i dont know if a fish with signs of VHS can pull out of it... i would like to think as long as they are eating they can fight the virus ... like anything else .. it affect some diferenly than others.. BEFORE YOU ASSUME THAT A FISH WITH A SORE HAS VHS.. I WOULD RATHER SEE IT PUT BACK IN THE SYSTEM THEN IN SOMONES GARBAGE CAN... ARE WE ALL FISH BIOLOGIST AND WILL THERE BE LITTLE TEST KITS HANDED OUT? PUT THEM BACK OR EAT THEM... THEY MAY PROVE TO BE TUFFER THAN YOU THINK... I HAVE SEEN FISH AFTER THE SPAWN LOOK LIKE THIS THREW JUNE.. . JUST BECAUSE THE FISH IS WOUNDED BY ANOTHER FISH OR HAS AN OPEN SORE DOESNT MEAT ITS GOIN TO DIE... FISH NIP AT EACH OTHER NON STOP... THERE TUFFER THAN YOU THINK. |
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| Hello,
My name is Andrew Fayram and I work for the DNR in Fisheries Management. I was forwarded your email. Although you may not want to eat a fish that has signs of VHS, any fish that you capture with hook and line and reduce to your possession (i.e. do not immediately release) will count toward your daily bag limit.
Ummm, am I the only one who read this sentence in the original post... "any fish that you capture with the hook and line and REDUCE TO YOUR POSSESSION (ie. do not immediately release) will count toward your daily bag limit."
Nothing has changed in the rules. This has been the rule in Wisconsin for many many years. The DNR is not TELLING you to take the fish out of the system. Andrew was simply stating the rules out of the regulations, saying that if you DECIDE to put that fish in your livewell, it's yours....no culling.
You still get to decide what to do with that fish.
Juls |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Sunshine - 5/23/2007 10:49 AM
I agree with you Brad BUT you trust the DNR on other assessments why not this? According to the DNR: Chances are, you have been and will continue to eat infected fish.
As a side note, ever eat stewed tomatoes or apple sauce? Think they use the best ingrediants there?
Gotta chime in on this one. I think you have some people who have been raised on and eaten such things as Ducks, Geese, Muskrats, and Turtles Like I have. And others like my wife who picks the peas and onions out of her stew. It's much more mental then it is Taste bud wise. The consume decision is (or should be) way at the bottm of the spectrum in this issue.
Edited by walleye express 5/26/2007 9:31 AM
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| I got this off the dnr site
"What should I do if I see a fish kill or diseased fish?
The department encourages anglers to keep suspicious looking fish they've caught as part of their normal daily bag to increase surveillance. If you catch a fish that exhibits the above-mentioned VHS symptoms, please place the fish in a plastic bag on ice in a cooler and call your local fisheries biologist for your County or the DNR's Central Office at 1-800-TIP-WDNR. If you observe a fish kill, please contact your local fisheries biologist or the DNR's Central Office at 1-800-TIP-WDNR."
You will note that it says "as part of their daily bag limit" so I think that is pretty clear. Good questions are being asked to which there are not yet good answers (to my knowledge). Here is my list of questions:
1. If all visibly diseased fish caught by anglers were returned to the lake (particularly in warm water temps) would enough survive to become disease resistant reproducers that it would make a significant difference in maintaining the walleye population?
2. If all visibly diseased fish caught by anglers were taken out of the system, would that significantly reduce the spread of the disease?
3. If six fish are kept in a livewell and one of them has vhs and all 6 are returned to the water, will this exposure give it to the other five and will they significantly spread the virus?
Answers to these questions might guide our decisions about what what to keep and what to cpr. Like I said last week, I don't think science has the answers yet. I would rather follow science than the law - it would be nice if the two were consistent.
For now, I have a fish that was bleeding through its skin when I caught it marinating in the frig with four others. The meat seemed fine to me, but I won't eat something that grosses me out. I will count sick fish with the rest of my bag limit, but if the answer to question 1 is no and question 2 is yes, I would be glad to talk to a judge about having a sick half dead fish over my limit.
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VHS... Part of your bag limit... note from DNR attached