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| Just talk to a guy today about the tourney we just couldnt belive the way the guys were fighting over what cooler of fish they were going to get. we all belive we should have had the choice to keep the eyes or donate them if you are to keep them a live we belive they should have been taken care of and put back to be cought again. i was told that some went to ppl that needed them but where the rest went who knows all in all a couple of average fisherman put out couple hundred bucks to see this type of action i wounder what the DNR would have done if all the guys were gone and a few guys had a bunch of coolers full of walleyes |
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| Wow, slow down. I had a hard time understanding your post. Please tell us what and where you are talking about. If there were dead fish from a tour event this time of of year, I fully understand that. If a few guys took all the fish there may have been a reason.
Please re-post your thoughts, but take some time to let us understand your frustrations. |
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| we were told to keep the fish alive for the saginaw bay tourney we didnt see any dead fish as we did all we could to keep them a live because we thought they would be sent back to be cought again some day. also if the ppl running the tourney should have asked each team if they wanted there fish or if they wanted to donate them to a good cause to us it looked like a bunch of guys wanting to fill there freezers with fish we have fished other tourneys and they have asked. |
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| Sounds like a trend developing here.
The same thing may have happened on Winnebago. 
When asked if we could keep fish they said no only to give then to the crowd later.
bottom line, why is it that they are going around the country doing these tournaments not prepared to handle the fish properly?
They seem to have some very able and concerned volunteers that try to do the best they can with the conditions and equipment they have to work with BUT the promoters do not seem to be concerned with the kill rates. It just does not seem that they do their homework or come with the proper equipment to assure the best return rates.
It would be interesting to hear from others outside of bago and saginaw if there problems at other stops. |
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| Tournaments are in general NOT about the fish, they are about the show and money. 95% of the tours are not equiped to handle fish once they leave your livewell. Most systems they fish can easily handle the loss of fish. The biggest problem is if the general public see this.
Of course they will always have "meat hogs" it does not matter where you are they exist. I can never understand what someone is going to do with more than one limit of fish a month? I only like "fresh" fish, not 50 day old frozen fish, but to each his own. However you should be raisin this "stink" with the tour itself. Write them a letter or call and tell them how you feel. Most guys that want to keep your business will listen, if not find another tour to fish. |
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| Gordy,
Your response is so full of BS that I difficulty knowing where to begin.
Tournaments are about the fish. No fish no tournaments. Tournaments can highlight great fisheries and show the public techniques that they are not aware of. Almost all tournament fishermen are very caring sportsmen that do whatever they can to perserve the fisheries. It hurts us deeply to see unwanted kills when they can be prevented.
You are absolutely wrong when you say that 95% of the tours are not equipped to handle fish once they leave your livewell. Show us your facts. Local and national tournaments take great pride in doing everything they can to return the fish to the lake. Your comment is a slap in the face to great people like Jim Coon who cares deeply about the fisheries. Have you been to national tournaments and watched what equipment they bring and how they handle the fish? Again, you would see some very caring promoters. Unfortunately there may be a trend with Bernie and the tournaments that he is involved with. Does anyone remember when he was here with the GNWC on Bago? The same thing happened. He did not have the right equipment and did not plan accordingly. I can still remember friends franticly trying to put fish in their livewells in an attempt to return them to the lake.
This is a big black eye because the general public does see this and groups all tournaments together.
I assure you that Bernie has heard these concerns before and raisin this "stink" with the tours he is involved with does little good. You will get the same rhetoric as in the past with no apparent improvement. Questioning tournament practices on web sites like this do more to benefit all of us. They give tournament fishermen a heads up. A thread like this may make organizers rethink how they do business. And this shows that we CARE and do not just put our heads in the sand and act like all is good in world.
A great advantage of having great sites like this one is so we can all discuss and enlighten each other to what is happening out there. And hopefully people or organizations like the Macs will listen and respond in a public forum like this so we all can learn and grow. |
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| Mr. Is there a Trend - 6/29/2007 8:44 AM
Gordy,
Your response is so full of BS that I difficulty knowing where to begin.
Tournaments are about the fish. No fish no tournaments. Tournaments can highlight great fisheries and show the public techniques that they are not aware of. Almost all tournament fishermen are very caring sportsmen that do whatever they can to perserve the fisheries. It hurts us deeply to see unwanted kills when they can be prevented.
You are absolutely wrong when you say that 95% of the tours are not equipped to handle fish once they leave your livewell. Show us your facts. Local and national tournaments take great pride in doing everything they can to return the fish to the lake. Your comment is a slap in the face to great people like Jim Coon who cares deeply about the fisheries. Have you been to national tournaments and watched what equipment they bring and how they handle the fish? Again, you would see some very caring promoters. Unfortunately there may be a trend with Bernie and the tournaments that he is involved with. Does anyone remember when he was here with the GNWC on Bago? The same thing happened. He did not have the right equipment and did not plan accordingly. I can still remember friends franticly trying to put fish in their livewells in an attempt to return them to the lake.
This is a big black eye because the general public does see this and groups all tournaments together.
I assure you that Bernie has heard these concerns before and raisin this "stink" with the tours he is involved with does little good. You will get the same rhetoric as in the past with no apparent improvement. Questioning tournament practices on web sites like this do more to benefit all of us. They give tournament fishermen a heads up. A thread like this may make organizers rethink how they do business. And this shows that we CARE and do not just put our heads in the sand and act like all is good in world.
A great advantage of having great sites like this one is so we can all discuss and enlighten each other to what is happening out there. And hopefully people or organizations like the Macs will listen and respond in a public forum like this so we all can learn and grow.
Well , it's SIMPLE! If you don't have water fish can't live. If you take fish from the water and put them in a basket or bag and carry them to a stage, the fact that they will die sooner or later is a simple fact. Show me another tour (other than the FLW that takes care of the fish? You can't! We read about 90 or 80% return rates, however just cause you put them back into the waters does NOT mean they are going to live. Why else do you hear of all the floating fish after the tours leave? Reality suck sometimes, fact is the release rates from tours are not very good (for the most part).
Sorry if you think different, maybe you could stick around for a day or two after and see some of the effects. Kidding yourself about this is silly, but then again it's easy to look the other way when you are headed down the road to your home. You have been to a wiegh-in I assume, just cause they look somewhat alive does not mean they will live through the night. 99% of the walleye tours out there release fish next to the wiegh-in site, and 90% of the time that area is not suited for fish that came from cooler waters. Take your minnows from 60 degree waters and put them in 80 degree waters, they look alive for awhile then they are belly up. Walleye's are no different , just larger and if not cared for will end up belly up sooner or later.
You might want to check some of the studies done on fish released at boat side during the warmer months. These show us what happens, and they were NOT run all over the lake or beat in a livewell for the day, only to be handled again at weigh-in. I have yet to fish a tour event that takes better care of walleye after they leave your well then the FLW, but thats only one tour, what about the 100's of others?
I'm also sure the tours promoters would love to have every fish released, however they only have control of how fish are handled once they reach the bump tank. So without proper air and water care (which is very expense when you have the right stuff) they can't control any other factors.
Please tell me I'm wrong, but the fact is you can't, I have been there and seen that! |
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| Well you asked so I will respond, you are wrong. You must do a great deal of bar tournaments and not the bigger tournaments.
Besides the FLW (by the way, a short 2 years ago they sucked at releasing fish but have a come a long way and are doing a great job now), the PWT and the MWC do a great job on the national level. Ever see the Walleyes for Tomorrow boats show up there when these circuits are in town? That organization when asked does a great job of escorting the fish out to cooler waters so that survive. And when this happens you can not possibly see fish floating at the weigh in locations because they are not there to see.
Even the smaller circuits like the MWS do an outstanding job of protecting the resource. No, your views and interpretations are skewed. Will you ever see the fish dumped back into the weigh in area? Of course you will but these are times in the spring when the water is cooler in that area.
I do check the studies because I care a great deal about the resource and what happens. If you are up on things you already know that because of these studies Wisconsin will not allow live release tournaments in the warmer months after this year. So you and I battling this point is mute and takes the argument away from the initial concern. The thread was started about concerns dealing with a specific tournament series. How about keeping focused. I hope that Bernie and/or Mac's respond because these concerns have been shared by many who have witnessed the massacre. Now we see that the same concerns have followed this series to other states. I'm sure that Mac's does not want to be associated with this type of stigma.
respectfully and thoughtfully yours,
Mr. Trender |
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| At the captains meeting it was stated that all fish would be donated, but the participants would have to bring live fish to the scales or there would be a penalty.
If you thought that the fish were going to be released then you were not listening.
If you wanted to keep your fish you should have asked for them back.
Sounds like you got a burr up your arse for Bernie and your trying to stir it up.
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| If you are talking to me, no burr here. Just stating facts. Everything I posted is 100% factual. |
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| I guess I stand corrected. I guess the hundreds of events I have fished all are doing a great job. Keep up the good work! |
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| AS long as there are tourneys there will always be people that bash them...IT'S a fish!!!After all the years on bago has it hurt the resource? on the bay? I
ve been fishing both for years Tournaments and for fun. I don't seem to have a problem catching. Well sometimes..lol let's let it go. I can remember on the bay when there was know one. and that's only a few years ago. If it wasn't for tournaments there wouldn't be that many people out there. Maybe there would? Places on the the bay that were obscure are now common Knowledge. most of it because of the net and tournaments. Yes most all tournaments care about the fish. We are human and fish are fish. Let's all enjoy the resource. |
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| Bernie did state at the meeting that all the walleye were to be donated to the arenac walleye club. We cleaned fish until 11:00 pm that night baged them and gave them all to needy family's. There was no waste because there are alot of people that can use a meal on the table so don't think that they were wasted, all I can say is thanks for the family's |
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| Kuz,
Do you know if the DNR imposed this? |
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Member
Posts: 1406
| I don't believe the DNR has the authority to impose a catch and Kill tourney, (yet)actually they have no authority at all, other than to issue a (free) permit, and enforce current state regulations......DNR has NO say whatsoever!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| Tyee,
I believe that you are wrong.
First
We're talking Michigan
Second
I believe that Wisconsin DNR can/will put a kill stipulation on a tournament if they choose.
Next year
I believe in Wisconsin, If a tournament occurs in July and August it will be a kill tournament only. No catch/release during the warmer months. |
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Member
Posts: 794
Location: Elgin, Illinois | BTW.... Bernie is not ignoring this thread and some of your questions... I happen to know that he is away on a fishing trip and won't have computer access till Monday or Tuesday... |
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| Mt T you are wrong! Done this many times. Anyone knocking this fine run small home town style tourney to you I say simply don't enter again. You must have had some bad weight, the sun got to you and your ticked off. If this group did everything 100 % right a few would still run their mouth. Also to you that are knocking this tourney think how the fine people feel that put in HOURS of work for YOU to have a good time out fishing. Also instead of being part of the problem next time be part of a good solution to make every aspect of the tournament run more smoothly. Many put in countless hours for YOU to have a good time and to those who did I thank you. You did your best to run things well with the budget you had. A few have mentioned bigger tournaments, well guess what idiots these are big companys with deep pockets. Next time run a tournament on your own and see what your up against, I bet next time you will show more respect to those trying their best to put on a good show! I have said enough, sorry I I fed into your slams. ME! |
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| Guest:
You say I am wrong but you give no evidence or examples of why I am wrong on the examples I give. Wish you would explain my inconsistancies.
As far as the voluntaries, I deliberately stayed away fron mentioning them. Why? For the reasons you speak of. I know that people donated their time and energy and did the best they did. These people should be commended for their efforts. Unfortunately, I feel that they were let down by the lack of organization. The last thing I want is for these people to be the fall guys. I know some personnally and they are caring tournament fishermen. No, never intentionally put any blame on them. In fact some accused me of being too pointed toward Bernie, maybe rigtfully so, because I was trying to stay away from the volunteers that showed up from the local area.
Still looking for simple answers from those who organized. Thanks Meyer for pointing out that Bernie is not around.
You're right guest, if I'm not happy with the answers, I will not fish it again. That's my prerogative. |
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| Mt T, ever heard about givers, takers (usually always trouble makers) movers and shakers? Well you are a taker. If you want to find out more about laws or regulations concerning having a local tournament contact the DNR. We did and always do each time. Give you something to do other than slam a group that did its best to hold a tournament. They should have had your group over directing traffic then you wouldn't have to complain. Your not fishing another because you don't want to donate your money is all. Easy to figure your kind out. ME |
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| Mr T why don't you call some of the people who put it on instead of bashing them on a forum like this. You should be ashamed. If they find out your name which they could if they want to, you should be banned for trying to start trouble. Mark |
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Member
Posts: 67
| Guest
Its nice to see that someone here recoginzes the efforts of those of us who dreamed up an affordable tourney with an 100% payout, intended for the average joe, and FAMILY TEAMS, or 1st timers, without excluding the professionals.
Our hope was to help the sport grow, and let 1st timers or family's see or rub elbows if you will with some of the top tourney people in the area.
My partner and I started the Mack's Lure tournaments last year on the Saginaw Bay, you don't even want to know how deep in our own pockets we had to go or how much time we spent away from our family's to make this a great experience for those who can not afford to spend the money to fish with the big boys.
If even just a few people get the bug to fish more tourneys or become more involved with their family's in the outdoors, then our efforts were not wasted.
Mack's Lure has stood behind us all the way with this, and has invested many thousands of dollars to make this happen. even the local bussiness's in
Augres donated many hundreds of dollars to give to the anglers.
I applaud everyone at Mack's Lure for their outstanding christian family values, and want to publicly thank them for their whole hearted support of all of the Mack's Lure tournaments.
I was one of the four people on the ground helping with the organization of this tournament, while I will readily admit that not everything went according to plan I do believe that most people had a good time. so if your looking to lay blame then blame me,as Bernie went with our program.
As far as people fighting over fish, I was there from set up to tear down and I did not see any of this.
what i did see was a group of local volunteers working their butts off cleaning fish untill 11:00 pm to give the fish to needy family's in the area, who I am sure needed the food for their families more then you or I.
Shame on you for begrudging the less fortunate a meal of fresh fish.
as for your other questions regarding the organization of this tournament, until you can man up and post with a real name, and stop trying to publicly humiliate me ,I refuse to answer them.
Tony Glynn
Edited by fiveinthelive 7/1/2007 6:32 PM
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| Tony Glynn,
I see you all over the web,and was wondering if you could give me some advise on fishing the area up there? Sounds like you got it going on, any advise you could give would be appreciated. You fish any of the pro circuits??
Thanks again,
Johnny Walker |
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Member
Posts: 67
| well thanks, but I'm really just an average guy (MWT Rookie) who loves to fish tournaments. but feel free to e-mail me and i will help anyway I can.
[email protected] |
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Member
Posts: 57
| I for one fished this tournament and we had a great time. I applaude the Macks group for starting thi circuit and look forward to next year. It was a great family outting for our team, both families spent the weekend up north and our daughters were there to greet us at the dock when we returned for the weigh in. Doesn't get much better then that. THANKS MACKS see you next year. |
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Member
Posts: 3899
| I can state for a fact that Mr T is wrong on the WI DNR changing any rules for next year. I was at the hearings, and I have been in contact with those involved. There is a lot more that goes into making new laws than just having a couple hearings throughout the state.
No DNR madated catch and kill tourneys next year. Not any in the forseeable future, as the resistance to the rule changes was just too much, and it was very well thought out. It just went too far. |
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| Holy smokes how these things can take on a life of their own when they hit the web.
FIrst of all the tournament was kill tournament from the beginning and the Arenac county walleye club requested the fish to use in a couple fish fries that are fundraisers they do for community projects. Secondly, if there were any fish left over they would donate them to local needy families. I trust them to do that and nothing has indicated otherwise. They are a great club and they have proven trustworthy and true to their word in the past. Plus they sent out a half-dozen volunteers to help with the weigh-in and they have worked tirelessly in the past to improve the fishing on Saginaw Bay.
I got a call stating the same thing that was posted by pissed off, and it turned out to be WRONG. The call came from a disgruntled member of the club who had a falling out with the club and is trying to descredit them. My guess is that Pissed Off is the same person since the things he said are identical to the caller.
Don't believe everything you hear, espcially on a forum such as this where someone can come on and anonymously attack others with an untrue statement. |
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| Brother Tony,
Glad to here there are other christain brothers out there in the walleye world, with the good sense and moral values that you have!! I have prayed on this and through long hours of prayer I have come to believe you would be a great addition to our local walleye club," Brothers Fishing for the Lord". It's just a small chapter, but growing by the minute. We share in prayer and meditation before all our outings, I feel the need to have you here with us to join in throwing up the praises to the good lord. Maybe there are some other friends of yours with the same outstanding moral values you could bring along??? The more the merrier!!
Thanks again, in the name
of the good lord, AMEN!!!
Brother in arms,
Johnny Walker |
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| Well then Ship, if you are right th DNR better update their own web page
http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/fishingtournaments/fishtournruledev.htm
Praise the Lord |
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What part of the "proposed" did'nt you read? Hearings were and are held all the time in every State over these kinds of things.
Seems you are not as informed as you think. Also seems like you don't know the rates of kill like you think, but you can give us all another lecture about what you believe to be fact. |
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Member
Posts: 1406
| Take it easy Mr. T. Here in WI. our DNR has no, zero, natta, control of tournamnets, but then again why should they? Is the community concerned about a few guys out fishing and taking their limits home or releasing them? Is it socially acceptable for them to be doing this? Is it socially acceptable to allow a tournamnet to consume a community or are their problems with over crowding at launches or on the water? What "concerns" do you have? In WI we have no governing bodies to oversee these events, they have been policing themselves quite well I might add, BUT................As you stated the DNR webpage talks at length of "NEW REGULATIONS" and they will come, but seriously what is YOUR beef, please tell us more, not your buddies but YOURS?
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Member
Posts: 1382
| And another misconception bites the dust. I sure wish folks would get all the details and facts before going all ballistic. Sheesh. Glad folks who were there and folks from the management end of the event piped in and cleared this up! |
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Location: Rhinelander | I also attended the winter hearings regarding the proposed tournament changes. It will take at least two years for the DNR to address what they learned during those hearings, so I wouldn't expect many changes at all for awhile.
To the disposition of the fish at the event;it sounds like allot of volunteers worked hard to guarantee no waste of the resource. I would think that it IS a shame to diminish that work. |
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| Tyee and Sworral,
Thanks for clearing the air for me. I was under the impression that the Wisconsin DNR was planning on enforcing these new rules in 08. I'll take your word as "gospel" for now. Guess we'll all have to sit back and wait to see the "when'.
For the record I have no beef with tournaments. In fact i support them to the hilt. That was the reason for my initial concern. It appeared to me that we had a tournament series going around the country unprepared to handle the fish and assure that as many as possible were released healthy.
I agree with the statement that they are only fish. They are a resource that can be properly taken for table fare. I wanted to learn if this was by accident because of poor management or if was predetermined that the fish would be utilized for food. It took a long time to get the answer but it finally came out. That's what makes web pages like this fantastic. You can get the answers. And I'd rather get the answers here than from the newspapers when they rip on tournaments. I came here because I knew that I would get the answers. It also appears that many tournament fishermen come here and they would have opinions and voice concerns if they saw mishandling of fish.
I tried to do this without upsetting too many people (really). I asked questions and gave my opinion (right or wrong). I never tried to call anyone names. It appeared however that as soon as someone questions a tournament they are attacked. That is wrong. We all can not grow and point out possible concerns to make tournaments better if we become the attacked. Someone suggested making a call. That may have been part of the solution but then only one person knows the answer. Having these discussions in public can be of more value. Isn’t that what boards like this are for?
I’d like to thank Walleye First for allowing this conversation to continue. I actually expected it to be pulled. It would have been by other web sites. You guys rock. I’m thick skulled but after getting pounded along side the head long enough it does eventually sink in. I’m glad the fish went to good use.
To the guy that I said was full of BS. I apologize if I offended you.
Tony if you and your partner are happy with the way the tournament is run, after all of your hard work of starting it in the first place, then I’m okay with it.
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Member
Posts: 794
Location: Elgin, Illinois | Mr. T...
The world is made up of "givers" and "takers"... The guys who setup and volunteered to help at this tournament are definitely "givers"...
Everybody has to decide what they want to be and then work at it...
We all benefit from the "givers", the "takers" just never bother to be "givers"... so nobody benefits from their existence, not even themselves...
Next time you don't think that something isn't being run to your satisfaction... volunteer... be a "giver"... You will find out that it is hard work but much more rewarding... |
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| hgmeyer, I am the same guest in above that wrote about the givers and takers. Your explanation of them is EXACTLY what I learned about them a long time ago. YOU hit it right on the nail head my friend. Good job. I would love to leave my name but can't. |
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| The givers are the ones that are looking to make money. The takers are the ones that make money! It's the way it has always been in this country, and the tournaments are no different than any other business, PERIOD!
The people that put time and energy into events are also in it for something, they are no different than the people putting the money up to fish them. The old saying goes "you can't please everyone all of the time, you can only hope to please most some of the time" This also seems to hold true for tours and their anglers. |
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Macks lure tourny