|
|
Member
Posts: 2567
Location: Manitowoc, WI | I thought this would be a good time and place to start a discussion about the FLW Tour and the FLW League.
Does anyone think they need to make any changes for 2008? Rules, weigh-ins, boats, etc.....i.e. anything one can think of that you think they should change?
If I had a say I wish they would get rid of the use of what is known as "cheater lines" and just allow us to use the number of rods each state allows. In WI we should just use three lines on three rods instead of the cheater as our third.
This is an open discussion on anything you would like to see changed. Keep it civil!! |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 701
Location: upper michigan | The only complaint I had on the one League event in Oconto I fished was how cold the water was in the dunk tank. Had 2 fish roll as soon as they hit that cold water. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 54
Location: Shabbona | I'd like to see the League go to a 2 day format ( Friday & Sat. ) with Sunday as drive day..
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 273
| I agree with Jerry on the "legal amount of lines (rods) the state allows".
Edited by Mud Duck 8/5/2007 11:15 AM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2567
Location: Manitowoc, WI | I'm surprised I haven't seen any opinions on the weigh-in tank. On the Tour I've heard more discussion on the tank than anything else. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1991
| I have not fished alot so far, but yes the tank you would think would be and should be kept closer to the lake temp. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 794
Location: Elgin, Illinois | 1) The weighin tank isssues ned to be addressed... but that can bea sticky issue... What temp does it need to be and how to get that temp consistently... Might need some more technology and equipmet...
2) I would like to see the tournaments on Sunday. That would give a whole lot more prefishing time to a lot of people. I personally think that one change would fill every tournament.
3) I would like to see the FLW prepare and make available to the Co's AND to the Pro's something like Colleen Lampman's excellent article posted here on the role of the Co... (somebody could easily get a Pro's guide prepared) Not more rules, but certainly some "best practices" suggestions.
4) I would like to see some thought given to allowing the Co's (at the Pro's discretion) to bring up to two rods. An awful lot of us have a distinct preference for a partcular rod setup for jigging.
5) And, as an experiment... What would prevent the FLW from pairing up the pre-registered Pros and Cos by the Thursday or Friday and hand out boat numbers at the meeting... That way the Pro could have a chance to educate his Co on techniques and other things outside the strees of the tournament... Not a mandatory issue, but if they could get togeter they would be allowed to do so. Try this inside of a switched tourney day from Sat to Sunday and see what happens...
6) Come to some resolution of the "gas money issue". My solution would be to up the Co-angler's entry fee by $25 and lower the pros by the same amount... Shift the money over and then announce that it is no longer encouraged or expected... Nobody gets home free... nobody gets "stiffed" and the whole taudry affair of tips... etc. is ended. If I then choose to do something additional... $15 $20 or even $50 it is my business and none of this hard feelings and expectations unrealized. This issue gets debated around every year and every year the whole thing only ever stays the same.
7) Emphasize local publicity before the events. Maybe even have an advance-man program. Someone who only has publicity as their primary job. It would be an additional expense to the FLW in the beginning but I have to believe that future rewards in terms of sponsor impressions would be fantastic. In this regard, get local involvement like it is arranged in Winneconne. Have food vendors from local service clubs. Get local talent up on that stage with Sonny and Kevin... The local talent can announce the who and the FLW can take care of the weigh-in... Not to tough to work out a system where a local radio or tv personality does this and maybe even gets the weigh-in broadcast on local radio in real time... I'm no PR expert but this is an area where progress could be meteoric! Encourage a local service club to have a "carnival", local fishing club to have a flea market... heck even a craft show to draw a crowd and then lve local radio... I can see a whole new dimension to the weigh-in...
8) In connection with the above... Sell FLW Wear... and give a small contingency for the top twenty (money winners) who are wearing "official" Tourney shirts throughout the day. Contingency could even be in product. If the brag rags are good for the boat companies and other sponsors, then getting co's to wearan FLW shirt would one enhance the look of the weigh-in and two enhance the image and recognition of the FLW.
9) Give out more palques (say to the top ten)... This is a very cheap idea... I can suggest a trophy supplier that would do another 7 small plaues for less than $6 each a whopping $80 per tournament. But, more trinkets taken home the more bragging that will be done... Have the promo guy send an e-mail photo and "release" to the local paper for the money winners... Believe me those picture would take a little more time but generate rewards far in excess of their cost in time and money...
10) In connection with the pre tournament publicity, get the local merchants to compete for the angler's business by offering coupons, etc... Something off of a $50.00 gas purcahse or a free 2 liter of pop something... That way there would be two results. Two metrics for the local merchants and two for the FLW...
11) Get some new raffle prizes!... I am tired of not winning the same things over and over again! |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 625
Location: LaCrosse, WI | I think the biggest thing for the league would be to change the day to Sundays. There will always be some that want them on Saturdays, but like Greg said, you will probably sign up more people who don't have a ton of extra vacation time to blow.
I would love to be able to pre-fish Thurs-Fri-Sat instead of Weds-Friday. That would save me a few extra vacation days throughout the course of the year. My family would surely appreciate that. The tank temp issue needs to be addressed, but I think that is something that the FLW is looking into. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 859
Location: Appleton wi | Greg great post |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 580
Location: Green Bay, WI | I've got to throw a vote for a Sunday event too. It's why I stopped fishing it. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1656
| Do away with "Cheater lines".
Personally I like the tourney on Saturday. I find it more relaxing to get home and take care of cleaning organizing my boat/fishing stuff. And still have time to take care of things around the house that were neglected the previous 3-4 days. My wife remains happy this way, which means I get to fish more. 
I disagree with pairing up the co-anglers with the boaters any earlier than the night before. I think it would give the Co and boater too much time to get to know each other and open up some cheating issues, such as culling. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 35
| Change the events to Sunday, unless it is a big water event and Sunday is needed in case of a blow day. Plaques for the top 10 or 20 would be nice. As for the championship it would be nice to see them get some contingency money from the motor sponsors for the top 20; i.e. Yamaha and Evinrude, that's about all that comes to mind... |
|
| |
|
| I agree with Greg on the marketing ideas. Keep the events on Saturday. Having Sunday off is very nice to get back home and relax a little for work on Monday. Other than that I think this is the most well run event around. Great weigh in procedure. Get rid of cheater lines and keep it at the two rod rule. Oh, I haven't seen an issue with the weigh tank, but when they test my livewell they always tell me I have the highest DO levels so maybe that is why. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 744
| Lots of good points brought up here. Us guys that fish it can fine tune stuff all we want, but the main issue (I am speaking of the League only) is participation, especially in MN and MI. So let's hear from more people who DON'T fish it, and find out why? It's sounds like moving it to Sundays would help, what else?
Dave S |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1991
| I like Sat for the tourny, so keep that. They could do a better job of marketing it to the local community, also they could have clothing etc. for sale at the events.
Here in MN I would like to see them find somewhere else besides Mille Lacs, that lake has been beat to death.
Lots of good lakes here, I like Red Wing in the spring.
Make sure to have better docking facilities, Bemedji is a great lake but the lack of docking sucked, nothing like beaching on rocks.
I would think they could get a portable dock company to provide dockage for events, look at the advertising/promo for a dock company.
If they want a list of lakes ask us. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 3899
| How about a combined two day event at Red Wing? Points count towards WI and MN. Allow double the boaters and co's! |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | I would like to see a 2 day event. No cut downs, everyone fish, 2 days.
Make a little more out of the check finishers, after all, the glory is great. Plaques would go a long way.
I like the pro-ams, please keep them!!
|
|
| |
|
| On the Tour side, let's allow the co-angler to miss a day for a family funeral if he can supply a fill in and still maintain and add to his weight total for the day he missed. Death in the family only and would need to show proof. Currently there is no rule clearly stated for this. Let's get some discussion going on this, I would love to add more. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 794
Location: Elgin, Illinois | Shep... you just want to beat up on our lesser talented Minnesota brethern... Shame on you.... LOL (And just kidding) I am an honorary "cheddarhead" when it comes to fishing... I am there more than I am here when I have free time. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1991
| hgmeyer - 8/7/2007 5:54 PM
Shep... you just want to beat up on our lesser talented Minnesota brethern... Shame on you.... LOL (And just kidding) I am an honorary "cheddarhead" when it comes to fishing... I am there more than I am here when I have free time.
Bring it on you "chedderheads"!!!! |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 3899
| stacker - 8/7/2007 12:02 PM
I would like to see a 2 day event. No cut downs, everyone fish, 2 days.
Make a little more out of the check finishers, after all, the glory is great. Plaques would go a long way.
I like the pro-ams, please keep them!!
I got a nice letter from Forrest after my finish at Oconto. That was cool beans.
But I am serious on a two day event at Red Wing, or where ever. Make it a combo WI/MN event. Points count for your respective league, based on finish. Everyone fishes two days, flop the co's each day, double the entry list, and the increase the purse!
Edited by Shep 8/8/2007 8:36 AM
|
|
| |
|
| Shep,
COuld be interesting... You could have a "Bragging Rights" finish of everyone... And, then finishes for each division. Might be a "nightmare" for the data entry folks... But, it couold be done... It would be interesting, even if it were a one day...
Battle on the Lake... You don't think those Minnesota guys would really show,, though, do you? They are so lame they have a law to only allow one rod so they don't hurt themselves....LOL
(Now again, I am just kiddding...sort of...)
Hey we could do "football colors" for T-shirts and stuff... |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1991
| hgmeyer_unlogged - 8/8/2007 9:06 AM
Shep,
COuld be interesting... You could have a "Bragging Rights" finish of everyone... And, then finishes for each division. Might be a "nightmare" for the data entry folks... But, it couold be done... It would be interesting, even if it were a one day...
Battle on the Lake... You don't think those Minnesota guys would really show,, though, do you? They are so lame they have a law to only allow one rod so they don't hurt themselves....LOL
(Now again, I am just kiddding...sort of...)
Hey we could do "football colors" for T-shirts and stuff...
Easy there, I can walk and chew bubble gum |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 3899
| At the same time? New TV show material. Minnesota Has Talent! hehehe
Just kidding Kirt.
I wonder if FLW would ever consider something like this? Would actually get two tourney's done in one weekend. Logistically, I would think this would save them a few dollars.
But I think something needs to be done. MN ad MI don't get close to filling their events. While WI didn't fill every one this year, I think they missed by no more than 6.
Edited by Shep 8/8/2007 9:59 AM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1656
| I seem to recall the numbers at 87, 93, and 93 respectively for the WI division.
While I think your idea has merit, Shep, I don't see how you can make it "fair" to the MI division for numbers unless you send the WI boys that direction also. in which case you get a little bit of resentment in your best numbers state and in turn have a negative effect.
The MWC East/Challenge I think is good example of how that it doesn't "work".
As Stacker stated before, I love the Pro-Am format. After fishing 1 season of it myself I would hate to see it go. I'm very curious how to get the numbers up in MN and MI and FILL the fields for WI.
Should the entry fees be raised? Lowered?
What about the entry deadline? should it be the same or changed? Late fee? |
|
| |
|
| I think that the main thing that needs to be done is to advertise better. I have spoke to many people at the boat launch during the week that didn't even know there was a FLW walleye league. Maybe take out a spot on ESPN and/or the outdoor channel. Even go to some of the outdoor shows.
I think one way that might help is to show up at some of the ramps during the peek spring time. For example, have a few guys at Turtle Creek (Ohio, lake Erie) and Fenwick the first of April and hand out info there. There are many people that put in those ramps to fish the reefs. This will help get the word out. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 3899
| I didn't look at the actual numbers. Just went from what I remembered. I thought the Pete was full. Oh well. I thought Oconto actually was 95? Still, way better fields here.
Didn't rally give the MI much thought when I suggested it. But I agree. Something has to be done to get better attendance in MN and MI, and get the last 7 -12 spots filled here. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 859
Location: Appleton wi | I'd like to see a later starting time like 8-4 or 9-5. There to much emphasis on ealy bite when sometimes the best bite is between 11-2pm plus it will give the hung over anglers a chance to sober up before jumping in the boat!lol |
|
| |
|
| A lot of good discussion about the bump tanks here, my recomendation would be to go to the same format as the PWT, and bump our fish in our boats and then we wouldn't get penalized for something that is out of our hands.
|
|
| |
|
| I agree 100% with Tomich. Call them alive or dead in the boat. Also, on the Tour side, I don't agree with the top league angler from each state to be allowed to fish the Championship. The expenses the tour guys incur compared to the expenses of the league guys in significant. Yet, once you are in the championship you have just as good of chance as anyone to win.
On both the league and tour side I think there should be a cash incentive to the top 10 overall towards AOY, atleast the top 5. We all know how hard it is to finish well overall. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 744
| I wouldn't blame the Tour guys one bit for being a tad miffed at the League guys. The FLW did something hugely positive for the League at a very small expense of the Tour.
Dave S |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Dave, Tomich, do you think it was the league guys that got the spots opened up at the championship, or do you think it was the FLW trying to gain some excitement to fish the League events? Simple marketing, HOWEVER, If the league winners go, and get treated like trash, and come home to tell about there experience, who do you think it will hurt?
Short term entrys in the league, yep, but long term, it will be the tour. There are many guys who are preparing themselfs for the final step. If the league goes away, there will be nothing in the respects of circuits for a guy to prepare unless it is a team event and his partner is just along for the ride.
If everyone is really trying to grow this sport, they will understand what the reasoning is behind this. If you are in it for your own self satisfaction, then, well, that is the answers that have been given by the anon.
P.S. This worked very well for B.A.S.S. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1656
| I believe the anon user "I agree" is a proponent of the "good ole boys network" too.
As a tour guy having played the game well enough to make the Championship the last thing I think they should be worried about is 3 "novices" coming to compete from the league. If you are, chances are you're not a serious contender.
If the cost is the only factor then it would only make sense for some of the tour guys to drop down and fish the leagues and be an easy shoe in for the championship.
I agree with Stacker, the BFL/FLW and BASS are great examples of how well this has worked. Get on board. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 859
Location: Appleton wi | Jerry the one thing i would like to see is flw contacting some of the boaters/non boaters who have fished the majority of the events or all of them like i have and ask us our opinion on changes.Last year they made some changes and prior to announcing these changes there was talk among us but nobody from flw ask my opinion or anyone else i know who fished the circuit. Wouldnt it make more sense to get general census among the bread and butter anglers out there after all it is within there best interest to keep the anglers they have . just a thought  |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1406
| I've had some lengthly discussions about "my next step" which I believe the League was intended for and targeted at the "weekend warrior". Quite frankly it doesn't work!
There are too many amature circuits out there that just get you bragging rights at the local tavern. It would be awesome to have a walleye "local club" format. I'm no tourney director but this would really work and I sincerely think you could get Irwin and the PWT to support it.
If your looking for ideas the model exists in the Bass Federation and there are a lot of things that could be done to improve on that as well.
I'm sure there are enough of us out there that could form say 10 clubs to send a team or two to a "big show" possibly a sponsor would foot the bill to send each winner of that event to a PWT or FLW event as a boater!
Heres a simple set-up for 200 people around Winnebago!
10 clubs
10 boats per club
12 events
50.00 sole Membership=$1000.00
20.00 4 hour weeknight fishing event weekly 75% to winner each week. 25% to regionals.
Winning boat each club goes to the regionals for free!
1400.00 entry fee to the regionals thats ten boats fighting for $14,000. at the end of June!
No teams/No Networking!!!!!
One week your a boater one week your a co!
No Pre-fishing!!!!!!!!!!
No discussing the big show event 14 days prior with ANYONE.!!!!!!
All fish released immediately after measured, photographed and recorded by your co-angler. so-long culling issue!
NOW THATS A TOURNEY!
Good Luck
Tyee
|
|
| |
|
| Coming from way out west-Sundays are a finally get home day after traveling for 2 days each direction-lets leave format the way it is for the fishermen who don't live in wis and only have to drive a few hours to get to tourn location instead of 24 hrs to Detroit or Escanaba. |
|
| |
|
| FLW League-
-Sunday Tournaments
-Monetary awards for top 3 Pros and Cos for the year in points (Possibly offer Free entry into next year's League events for 1st, 2 out of three entries paid for 2nd and 1 out of three for third..Currently awarding everyone regardless of their finishing place in the top 25
-Big Fish payout top 3 each event
-Co's have the opportunity to bring "some" equipment (jigging rods, particular baits, personal USCG life vests etc) aboard at the discretion of the boater after the rules meeting-If they say no then it's no.period.
-Lines per person regulations per state regs
-mandatory $25-$50 per co for gas-bait etc $25 minimum-$50 max -that's not much for the opportunity to learn and be basically guided for a days fishing...oh yeah, you can also win $ too!
|
|
| |
|
| Jayman, I am not a proponent of the good ole boys club, just stating the facts. Guys on Tour are not happy with the fact that they are letting anglers in the championship through the league. I understand the reason the FLW does it and it makes good marketing sense. However, I do agree that it is not fair to the tour guys.
Come on out to Cleveland and ask around, the anglers will tell you what they think of it. The league guys will not be treated any different than any other angler, but that doesn't mean the anglers agree with the rule. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 794
Location: Elgin, Illinois | Why would anybody care "how" someone else got to the Championship? Unless you believe you have a shot at beating every other angler who is going to show up YOU shouldn't be there... Just my 2 and 1/4 cents... inflation you know! |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | How about they start a stair step effect. Just like a stren series in bass they start a mid range series. 750 entry 100 boats 4 events from michigan to minnesota. league winners go to stren championship and stren champ goes to tour. This way the tour guys will only need to worry about 1 fisherman to beat instead of 3. Also make the stren a 2 day event with no cut to make. |
|
| |
|
| Only the pro and co other than a camara person in the boat. Nothing against pets but a tournament where a co has paid money to enter, and is in position to win a substantial amount of money, he does not need to be babysitting the pro's pet. |
|
| |
|
| Mt just to keep the facts straight in this winless discusion. The tour coanglers that make the championship do not pay entry fee and trust me the little amount of money you have spend this year fishing as a co angler is a drop in the bucket in comparison to the three boaters from there respective state have put into this year. The 3 boater earned there way to the tour by winning and placing high where as you(if you were fortunate enough to make it to the tour championship )were just lucky to have drawn great pro's during the season who have put you in this position.Good luck to all |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1406
| Guest, so the pro did all the work???? Excuse me oh might one, I've been in a few boats where the co got the pro to the top of the pile many times....keeep piling it on....it looks good on you!
Good luck
Tyee |
|
| |
|
| Had to comment, too much late night time on my hands.
As a FLW pro I have no issues with the top league boaters making it to the championship. None of the other Pro guys I've spoken to have had an issue with it either,
THose anglers earned their way in based on the the criteria set-up prior to the seasons start, fair for everyone. If you recall the original FLW had 225 to 250 entrants. A large portion of this was from those that didn't fish any FLW event but qualified thru an approved circuit.
The goal, get better, get more people and increase payouts for everyone.
Was every step they took the way everyone wanted, not neccesarily but, they got the job done and still are progressing.
I think it will elevate all the circuits, competition breeds excellence!
TIght Lines
EO
|
|
| |
FLW Tour/League: Any changes needed???