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Member
Posts: 1406
| Oct. 4, 2006 Gerald O’Brien Chairman Wisconsin Natural Resources Board 101 South Webster St. Madison, WI 53703
Dear Chairman O’Brien:
I represent FLW Outdoors, the world’s largest tournament-fishing organization, and I am writing today to express grave concern about proposed changes to Wisconsin Administrative Code NR 20.40 relating to fishing-tournament regulations.
In 2007, FLW Outdoors will operate 247 tournaments in 13 circuits offering combined purses in excess of $43 million to the nation’s bass, walleye, redfish, kingfish and striped bass anglers. These tournaments annually contribute a combined $388 million to local economies, including $12.5 million in five Wisconsin counties (through 11 bass and walleye events in 2006).
Many of the changes that have recently been proposed for live-release fishing tournaments, including closing the season to such events between July 1 and Aug. 31, new taxes/fees for tournament organizers and participants, and a prolonged permitting process that will not be complete until Nov. 7 each year, will effectively prohibit FLW Outdoors from hosting events in the state.
Such a prohibition against tournaments will have serious economic implications for small businesses throughout the state. In fact, the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources own study in conjunction with the Wisconsin Department of Tourism, the University of Wisconsin – Madison and the Chippewa Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau shows that a single high-profile tournament, like those regularly conducted by FLW Outdoors, can contribute $2.1 million to small businesses throughout the host community.
On behalf of our members throughout Wisconsin and thousands FLW Outdoors anglers who regularly visit Wisconsin, helping to fund DNR activities and facilities through license and tackle purchases, I urge you to reconsider the proposed changes to Wisconsin Administrative Code NR 20.40 until a Small Business Analysis can be completed and validated by an independent third party.
As you know, the Wisconsin DNR is already facing a budget crisis, as expenditures have exceeded revenues in each of the last five years. The proposed restrictions on tournament anglers will only exasperate the DNR’s fiscal problems by constricting license and tackle sales and discouraging future participation in the sport.
I assure you that we share an appreciation for Wisconsin’s fantastic natural resources, and we will continue to work diligently to both protect those resources and allow equal access to them by both tournament anglers and recreational anglers alike. In this spirit of cooperation, I would appreciate the opportunity to meet with you and further discuss the matter. Please contact me at 270.252.1615 or via e-mail at [email protected].
Sincerely,
Charlie Evans President and CEO FLW Outdoors
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| "In fact, the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources own study in conjunction with the Wisconsin Department of Tourism, the University of Wisconsin – Madison and the Chippewa Valley Convention and Visitors Bureau shows that a single high-profile tournament, like those regularly conducted by FLW Outdoors, can contribute $2.1 million to small businesses throughout the host community."
WOW.... That sure sounds like a lot of money if it is true, but I for one find it hard to believe that any 3 day tournament could have that much of an effect on any local economy unless everyone in the tournament stops at the local Boat dealer and buys a new rig at every tournament.
Help me with the math on this one, lets say 300 guys fish the tournament for 3 days each, that's $7000 per person spent on the Tournament not counting the expense of the tournament officials and their staff and rigs. Sounds like a business I want to get into. Putting on Tournaments for a living.
I support the WI DNR and it's efforts to limit the number, location and dates of Tournaments.
Tyee, do you fish tournaments, I don't see you posting and fishing reports anymore? |
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| I too would not take any numbers that come out of Madison. Sounds to me like someone in Madison was getting paid to do a survey. I deal with the Commerce Department on a regular basis and I would not trust any number they produce in any way shape or form. Anything they do is mearly a WAG. |
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Member
Posts: 179
| I won't get into my numbers or a political side to this but a major tournament in my area doe's make a great impact on our bussiness.there numbers may be off but we do see an increase in the amount of people comming thru our doors during the pre-fishing and the tounnament times. |
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Location: Rhinelander | 'These tournaments annually contribute a combined $388 million to local economies, including $12.5 million in five Wisconsin counties (through 11 bass and walleye events in 2006).' |
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Member
Posts: 179
| And I think that they should continue. |
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Member
Posts: 625
Location: LaCrosse, WI | Just ask any bait shop or gas station how much their business is affected by a big tournament. Walleye fishing on the Mississippi can generate huge money for bait shops. I've had a hard time finding Willow Cats during Walleye tournaments that are 100 miles away.
I've seen guys buy 100 dozen at a time, that's $700 to $800 right there. I've seen guys walk out of a bait shop with 50 crankbaits. Chalk up another $250. These anglers do spend money, and lots of it.
If these people pre-fish for a week think of the gas they buy. Think of how much they spend on hotel rooms. If they find a decent room for $60.00 per night, they're spending over $400 on lodging. They gotta eat, breakfast lunch and dinner.
If you are fishing new water, you may need to buy a whole lot of local equipment. Try going to Green Bay during June without planer boards or harnesses. You can drop a lot of money real fast. |
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Member
Posts: 794
Location: Elgin, Illinois | Remember, measured economic activity in dollars takes into account "circulation" of money... Restaurant patron leaves a tip... waitress buys groceries... Grocer pays wages to stock boy who buys a McDonalds lunch, etc... One dollar brought into a community generates more than $1 in economic activity...
But, no matter how you want to look at it... I spend thousands of dollars on four or five FLW events... I drive out of Illinois with several hundred dollar bills in my pocket and when I drive home they are not there... I leave them in Wisconsin. |
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Member
Posts: 1406
| Is there an economic impact? MOST DEFFINATELY! although the total numbers are arguable either way. That is not the point! The point is that the DNR has put their foot down and is going to regulate tournamnets like it or not. To what extent is shown in the FLW response that they are VERY concerned and that their tournaments in WI will most likely disapear if this regulation goes through. If this is your livelihood I urge you to defend your position at the hearings later this month. These hearings are not like the spring hearings!
I have posted all the links you need on the tournament regulation thread to help you better understand what is going on. It sure would be nice to see the NPAA, Cabelas, MWC, WWA etc........Jim Coon where are you? respond or post here so your supporters can defend your thoughts at these hearings! I realize many of the tourney guys don't post on message boards for fear of attack I guess but you need to drum up support and quick! The WWF and the WAL stand firm and have a lot of political clout!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Just remember guys, its not all about the FLW not playing here. It will be the MWC, the PWT, and the local circuits as well. every bar tournament, bass tournament, Muskie tournament, this is not prejudice against the flw or walleyes. This will include all species. If this goes through, it will eliminate walleye tournaments as we know them today. Why would this happen? Are they looking to protect the resources? Someone better get a handle on this.
Tyee, what is the e-mail of the person in which we can rock there world concerning this?
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Member
Posts: 794
Location: Elgin, Illinois | What are the specific proposals that are of concern? I for one would like to be educated enough to state my basis for opposition. Any help would be appreciated. |
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Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Tyee:
I just pulled these dates off of the DNR web site for the hearings. They are different from what you posted earlier. I'm assuming that these are the correct dates?
October 30, 2006 Holiday Inn, Fond du Lac
November 1, 2006 La Crosse
November 2, 2006, Fitchburg
November 8, 2006, Green Bay
November 9, 2006, Sturtevant
November 14, 2006, Spooner
November 15, Rhinelander
Here's aquote from the DNR:
It is not anticipated that the proposed rule will have an economic impact on small businesses. The Department’s Small Business Regulatory Coordinator may be contacted at [email protected] or by calling (608) 266-1959.
For what it's worth, I included this info in my November article for Midwest Outdoors.
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/water/fhp/fish/fishingtournaments/Pu...
Edited by Sunshine 10/10/2006 12:41 PM
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Member
Posts: 617
Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | This rule is a direct result of the DNR and Wisconsin State Bass Federations efforts of about 3 years ago. DNR wanted to regulate tournaments a little bit more and the WSBF wanted to be able to cull in bass tournaments, but neither could generate the support for their individual bills. They combined efforts and were able to push a bill through Madison that called for a two year study on culling, then based on data received, a bill such as this one. Apparently since the majority of bass died in a couple of warm water studies, they felt that all species of fish were at risk at that time of year.
If you want to be upset with someone, start with the Wisconsin State Bass Federation. Had they not been so foolish as to enter into an agreement where they had NO idea what the outcome was going to be, none of this would have happened.
Tyee has posted info on who to contact in past threads. DNR website has asked as email addy set up specifically for this:
[email protected]
I would encourage everyone to take a minute to send them a POLITE email request to reconsider the current format, specifically the "no live release events in July and August" and to clarify and the process by which tournament permit applications would be awarded.
There will almost certainly be some additional control granted to the DNR from this to requlate tournaments and that is not necessarily a bad thing. We just need to make sure that the rules are in place to protect the resource and not simply put in place as a tool for someone to limit our access to the water. |
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Member
Posts: 3899
| Here is the link to the WI DNR website which concerns the regulation developement.
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/water/fhp/fish/fishingtournaments/fi...
I have also attached a list of the Fishing Tournament Advisory Committee/WDNR Fishing Tournament Working Group. Please note that Kendall Kamke is on the Working Group, as well as Sue Beyler. For those not familiar with Sue, she is out of the Souteast Region, and has been very helpful in Muskie Inc's efforts in that region of the state.
Any of these member's e-mail addresses are available here:
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/staffdir/SearchDNREmp.asp
I encourage all to attend a meeting in their area. Even you out of staters, like Greg, should try to attend. We need our voices heard! Everyone who fishes/organizes/benefits form tournaments will be affected. Make your opinions now, cause your crying later will fall on deaf ears.
I see Bass is well represented on this committee, and Steve Poll appears to be the lone voice for Walleye.
Thanks, Tyee, for helping to keep this topic current.
See you at the regional meeting!
Edited by Shep 10/10/2006 1:29 PM
Attachments
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 advisory_workgrp.pdf (10KB - 190 downloads)
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Member
Posts: 1406
| Dennis thanks yes the dates have changed. Previously you asked about my thoughts on other rules. Here's one that is in there that I think the Musky guys would be concerned about or maybe not?
(k) “Possess” for the purposes of this section means to own, control, restrain, transport or keep. Once
a fish is possessed, it shall be counted towards the anglers daily bag limit pursuant to s. NR 20.05(7). Any of
the following conditions constitute possession:
1. Holding a fish out of the water longer than necessary to remove hooks and measure the fish for
length, weight or both.
2. Placing a fish into a live well except to revive a fish or to avoid imminent boating danger.
3. Holding a fish at the side of a stationary boat for longer than necessary to register and revive the
fish.
4. Resuming fishing by any angler in the boat prior to the release of the fish.
Number 3 seems to me that it could be a long day in the boat for a Musky angler if he gets his fish early in the day and has to stop fishing??
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| It's about time the DNR stepped in to regulate tournament fishing. There are just too many tournaments and the mortality rate is simply way too high, especially in warm weather. I wonder what happens to all the big, dead walleyes that we see on the news after a tournament on Green Bay in August?? |
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Location: Rhinelander | Probaly the same thing that happens to the big, dead walleyes that anglers catch there every day. |
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Member
Posts: 2567
Location: Manitowoc, WI | I would guess they meet the steel and fryer.......in that order.
If the DNR is so gun-ho about regulating things they should start with the people who double dip on a daily basis on Winnebago during the summer and the Wolf River rafts during the spring. Trust me, they do far more damage to the walleye population than any tournement ever has.
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Member
Posts: 201
Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Jerry, I couldn't aree more. I just sent an email to the DNR, ( don't know if it will do any good), I included that in my letter. It irked me when I saw the quote from the DNR, that this bill won't effect the small business owner. |
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Member
Posts: 794
Location: Elgin, Illinois | I read this and then re-read it....
This is "possession";...
"4. Resuming fishing by any angler in the boat prior to the release of the fish. "
What "you" do affects what my legal status now is.... I don't think so... And, what about this... 4 rods out.... no fish in the livewell... I reel in a fish on rod "A", while rods "B", "C", and "D" remain in the water... Has my partner resumed fishing when he stops holding the net... what if he didn't net... when has he resumed fishing... Have I ever stopped fishing...
What, did Bill Clinton write that definition of fishing, so that "is" depends on what "is" "is"... |
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| Jerry, don't be ignorant by pointing the finger at the rafts on the wolf river...they already have a bad name from the decades ago. Your simply categorizing a group of people you grew up no where near. Besides there is so much good that goes on compared to how it used to be. Its a great thing so don't knock it!!!!!!
As far as double dipping goes it still happens and will always be a problem when you have a great fishery! |
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Member
Posts: 2567
Location: Manitowoc, WI | River guy,
In no way am I categorizing anyone. I am pointing a finger at a habit that has affected the fish population for many years. In my finger pointing I did not name names or mean to say that everyone who fishes on a raft on the Wolf in the spring does this. But we also know it is a regular practice, as it is also a regular practice for people to double dip on Winnebago when the fish start to relate to reefs. I've watched it more than once and I've reported it every time I've witnessed it.
Tyee.....I have a question for you regarding these meetings and the suggested change in regulations. In every change there has to be someone or a group who sponsors or drives the need for a change. Who is responsible for the desired change in this instance? Is this simply the result of the DNR becoming more involved in tournament fishing because of the culling requests by the FLW?
Edited by jerry 10/10/2006 8:44 PM
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Member
Posts: 625
Location: LaCrosse, WI | I'm trying to gather as many small businesses in the LaCrosse area as I can to attend and offer their point of view. They can express themselves for or against tournaments. I have yet to find one that's against them though.
I encourage anyone to do the same. The anglers aren't going to change the State's mind. The businesses and communities will have to be the ones to do it. Let your chamber of commerce know what's going on. I'm sure they will have plenty of people who'd like to voice their oppinions. |
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Member
Posts: 617
Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | guest... this rule will make things WORSE, not better. No live release tournaments in July and August and no limit on the number of tournaments these bodies of water can hold. That means we will still have (potentially) just as many events on Winnebago and GB, just that we will have to keep and eat the fish like everyone else does during those months.
Personally, I would rather tournaments remained C&R, but did a better job at determining which fish are truly releaseable. Most people don't care when fish are eaten, but seeing them wasted gets under a lot of people's skin - mine included. |
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Member
Posts: 1406
| Jerry, the changes taking place are a direct result of a failed culling bill presented through the tourism department that the WSBF lobiests tried to get through after its failure it opened the door for bill AB623. As 623 was most likely inevitably going to pass the WBSF (and other supporters) ramrodded it for a bass culling pilot program.
In esence what we have now is the result of a uncompromising, unagreeable tournamnet advisory board that was appointed of many interested parties, including boat manufacturers, DNR, people from various groups and others.
The DNR has drafted this and will be holding public meetings as required. Currently they have NO control over tournamnets, I repeat NO control, all that is required is that you get a permit, they don't even have the control on who, when or where these events can take place. This first go around is defining some laws for anyone that wants a tournament these are the new rules to be followed. More will follow regarding bag limits/culling etc. for that I'm sure.
Good Luck
Tyee |
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