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| My new 1700 hit the water today. It's great, but I need some help getting it dialed in.
There are three main concerns, two of which may stem from the third.
1. The boat pulls pretty hard to the right. This can be alleviated somewhat by trimming the motor up, but it's pretty severe.
2. While underway, the boat lists to the left, even with only a driver on the right side, the boat leans left. This is not alleviated by trimming up.
The dealer says adjusting the trim tab on the anti-ventilation plate will help, but couldn't say which way, or how much.
3. I had the dealer install a humminbird side-imaging unit, and I asked him to use a transducer mounting plate. One corner of the mounting plate extends below the running bottom by about 1/8th of an inch, and the large transducer is a good inch below that. The result is a depth-finder that works well at speed, but produces a HUGE double rooster tail. One side soaks the side of the motor while on plane, and the other shoots up 6-8 feet in the air behind the boat.
As I said, it may be that taking care of that transducer may solve the others as well, but I don't know.
I've read enough of these to know that some may ask for more details so I'll do the best I can after a few hours on the water.
Tuffy 1700 w/ Optimax 115. Engine is mounted in the top hole (down as far as it can go).
Blackmax aluminum prop - 17 pitch (stainless was specified, but dealer said it was back ordered).
It's still in the break-in period, but I did push it up to full throttle for a few seconds. 5400 rmps, 40 mph.
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Member
Posts: 1040
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Your transducer mounting plate should definitely not be below the running bottom. Anything throwing a rooster tail is going to cause problems. Call Mike and he'll take care of you! |
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| Thanks TJ,
I emailed Mike and he got right back to me. I'm not trying to bad mouth him at all, he's been great.
Unfortunately, I won't be back in the boat for a week, and I doubt I'd be able to get it back to Mike for a couple/few weeks.
I just thought I'd see what the forum has to say about it in the mean time. |
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Member
Posts: 1991
| If it is leaning left and the transducer is maounted on the right like you say, ir is probably acting as trim tab lifting the that side of the boat, get that corrected that should aleviate that issue along with the spray. A good SS prop will help handling also, did you order a Tempest?
Nice boat BTW |
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Member
Posts: 3899
| #1, the transducer board should be level or slightly above the bottom of the transom.
#2. That is a pretty big transducer, and if it's hanging an inch below, it will cause lift on that side, and a huge rooster tail.
A couple questions. These HBird SI units have two transducers, correct? One for regular sonar, and one for the SI function? Or you can get an all in one transducer?
I would recommend going the 2 transducer route. Put the regular sonar transducer on the lower transom pad, and the SI above the pad, so it is not in the water while on plane. You can't use it at planing speeds anyway.
Another thought. Fiberglass boats don't really require the use of transom boards, like aluminum hulls do. I'd lose the board, and mount the transducer right to the hull. My transducer(Lowrance) is mounted on the starboard side. Just low enough to make good contact. Probably about 1/2" below the hull, if you took a straight edge and lined it up. Works great, and I get very little rooster tail. I am going to be moving it to the port side, away from my kicker, as I think the kicker causes interference pulsations when trolling at higher speeds. |
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| as you and others have suggested, the first thing i'd look at is that transducer board. all that water pushing against the board and 'ducer making that rooster tail is also impacting how the boat runs.
- remove the transducer mounting board entirely. throw it away, or use it to re-mount your 'ducer if you really really want it on your boat. (be sure to plug the old holes with appropriate marine epoxy).
- re-install the SI transducer up near the main motor mounts, so it's in the water when going slow with an unobstructed view to either side, but well above the running edge of the boat when on plane.
- install a shoot-through-hull high-speed transducer in your bilge ($55)
most likely "XP 9 20": http://store.humminbird.com/products/313995/XP_9_20
make sure to install it all the way back close to the transom.
- add a transducer splitter: "AS SIDB Y" ($24)
http://store.humminbird.com/products/322954/AS_SIDB_Y this allows you to run both 'ducers without needing a switch; your unit will draw 2D sonar off the high-speed through-hull and the SI from your big SI 'ducer on the transom.
so it'll cost you about $75. it's really quite easy to do yourself, or less than hour's labor for the rigger at your dealership.
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Member
Posts: 3899
| What he said!
Lambeau, do you have a picture of your shoot-thru-hull mounting and location for him?
Edited by Shep 5/10/2010 2:08 PM
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| Thanks. Unfortunately that seems to be the exact opposite of the advice I got last time. I was Pete on the thread below. Considering the conflict, which is the better advice?
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1...
My dealer is also suggesting I get rid of the plate, but hasn't brought up the through hull transducer. Unfortunately, the whole point of the plate was to minimize holes in the hull. Now it looks like I'll have 6 instead of 2.
Thanks,
Pete |
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| Thanks. Unfortunately that seems to be the exact opposite of the advice I got last time. I was Pete on the thread below. Considering the conflict, which is the better advice?
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1...
My dealer is also suggesting I get rid of the plate, but hasn't brought up the through hull transducer. Unfortunately, the whole point of the plate was to minimize holes in the hull. Now it looks like I'll have 6 instead of 2.
not so much the "opposite" advice, as a variation of it...that mounting plate should be just fine on the 1700 - as long as it's not mounted low enough to drag water like it was done on your rig. the big transducer should probably be fine as well - as long as it's mounted correctly so that it's not completely dragging and shooting water everywhere like it is on your boat.
personally, i'd insist that the rigger "make it right" if they mounted the board and transducer like this, but it sounds like you don't want to wait long enough for them to do it?
maybe the plate can be shaved/ground enough to get the edges above the water line? i'd also mount the transducer slightly higher - test mount it until it's maintaining a good signal without tossing a giant roostertail.
or...pay the $75 for the extra parts and be done with it. you mentioned that the rigged didn't bring up the option of splitting the transducers. how familiar is he with installing Humminbird products?
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| OK, cool. My dealer is being very helpful, and I hope I'm not coming across like I'm complaining about him. He is, in fact, eager to make it right, and has even offered to pick up the boat, make adjustments, and return it. Pretty good service if you ask me.
I'm just hoping to be able to tell him how, or at least work constructively with him, on how to get everything working well.
We've already discussed it, and I think the way I'd like to proceed is to ask him to remove the mounting plate, cut it/shave it/bevel it so that it does not extend below the running bottom, and then re-mount it in the same holes. Then ask him to reposition the transducer a little higher. I think that's the same thing you're saying Lambeau.
I haven't seen the mounting instructions, so I'm not sure how it's supposed to be positioned. Has anyone installed their own, or have a copy of the installation guide? Where does that thing need to go? It's marketed and sold as a one-transducer unit, so HB must be pretty confident that it will work well, we just need to get it on there right.
Again, I appreciate the input. |
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| Re-reading the thread, it seems like most are now saying get rid of the plate, mount the transducer up high, and get an additional through-hull.
I guess I can do that if I need to, but it just doesn't seem like I - or anyone - should have to pay extra (above and beyond the exorbitant price of the unit and hardware) to get it to work. |
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Member
Posts: 1991
| It will work as a one transducer unit it will take some tweaking to get the transducer right, they only can make the transducer one way and there are many different hull styles. So keep the board, play with the positioning of the transducer. i know many guys that run those units with a single transducer. Send us a picture of what you have now, it will be easier to comment on. |
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| Here's a pic.
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Member
Posts: 1991
| Yep, way to low, get the dealer to get it set up correctly, and it may still take some tweaking to perfect it. The dealer should have given you the install manuel. get a shot from the back view |
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Member
Posts: 650
| looks like the mounting plate is bumping into the motor bracket, picture is dark... nice boat, stainless should have that puppy moving good... That mounting plate should be easy to cut down on a table saw...
check your hummingbird manual for install details but I'm guessing that transducer need to be even with the bottom of the boat with that line that runs halfway ailong the transducer... please check your manual first...
more pics of your new tuffy. please... |
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Member
Posts: 3899
| You've had this boat before the HBird was insatlled? And it ran OK then? Should run great again, once this transducer issue is resolved.
Way too low in the water. No doubt that this is causing the boat to lift on that side while on plane. It is also possible the motor is too low, causing the the boat to torque that way, too. But that usually goes away when trimmed out. Once you take care of the transducer mounting, you can deal with that.
I tried to attach the pages from the manual about mounting the transducer. Too big a file.
PM me your email address, and I'll send them to you.
Pay particular attention to the comment about which side to mount it on depending on the rotatation of the prop. Also, they mention the template to get you in the ball park. You need you manual, as it is included in it.
It's a good call to trim down that mounting board. It's not a bad thing to use it, just not required on a glass boat. But definately have it trimmed down so it is about 1/8" above the bottom of the running surface.
I think the ideal situation is the 2 transducer approach. You don't have the stepped pad, so that almost requires a shoot thru hull transducer to achieve. Again, I said ideal. Your application may work great, once you get the transducer mounted OK.
Edited by Shep 5/11/2010 8:30 AM
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| Thanks everyone.
The dealer is picking the boat up today, and should get it worked out. We're going to try cutting down the running board, reinstalling, and raising the transducer to the correct level. I'll have it back in the water on Saturday for a test. If that doesn't work, I'll consider the two transducer route.
Shep, the boat is new, so I don't have any other experience in it. I'll send a pm with my email. Thanks for the offer. |
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Member
Posts: 3899
| Here is a pic from the Lowrance manuals on transducer mounting. It's the same for your HBird. I believe there is even the centerline on the HBird transducer to use as a guide.
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| the good thing about using the board is that re-mounting the transducer in the right place (which you need to do) does not involve additional holes in your boat. so from that end of things it was good for you to get one.
and it's great to hear that your dealer is acting so quickly on this. it sounds like pretty good service - who was it?
keep in mind that those are quite large transducers, so you may still have a small tail coming off it even when it's in the right place, but it won't be a big one like you showed in your picture.
the edge of the board is my guess at the real culprit of your port-side lift, though.
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| Not yet!
As above, the dealer picked up the boat, shaved down the mounting plate, repositioned the transducer, raised the motor one hole, and dropped the boat back off.
I had it in the water on Saturday, and unfortunately, the boat still leans left and pulls right while on plane. I think the next step is to try removing both the mounting plate and transducer (temporarily), and see how it handles alone. If the problem persists with just the hull and motor, I'll have to get the dealer or someone from Tuffy out in the boat to check it out. If it planes out fine, I'll go with the through hull and mount the SI transducer up higher so it's out of the water when on plane.
Any advice on temporarily plugging/sealing the holes in the transom for a test run without the hardware?
On another note, I'm mounting a depth finder up front attached to US2 on a Minn Kota trolling motor. I opened the circular hatch cover at the front of the casting deck expecting to find access to the cavity under the bow, but found a dry storage canister instead. Can anyone tell me how to get into that space under the bow? Do I remove the canister, or can I remove that whole panel somehow?
Thanks. |
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Member
Posts: 1991
| Remove the canister, also note that the bow is reinforced were the bow mount bolts to look in there when you pull the canisters out |
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Member
Posts: 650
| as he said, remove the canister and you have access under the bow... You should also find red and black power under there for your sonar... I just cut a little notch where the canister goes and ran the wires through there... I used a removable minn kota mount on the front and installing the trolling motor was much easier! Trolling motor can be removed now in seconds without unbolting anything... locks too...
As far as the running of the boat... if the mounting plate does not protrude past the running surface of the boat, your OK LEAVE IT ON... I really don't think a tranducer could screw up a boats running much, besides, you may have some adjustment on the screws to raise it a bit... the pulling to the right sounds like propeller torque... get a stailness on there and that should help... all boats have that to a degree...
as far as listing to the left... Oil tank and battery over on that side but should be cancelled out by the console and driver... this too could be explained by prop torque... most boats have this to a degree... my last boat screwed to the left till I hit 60.... this boat will run different when you get 2 deep cycle batteries and the trolling motor installed... with you running it "light" may be magnifying the problem... I have yet to meet anybody who needed to adjust the trim tab... MY BOAT DOESN"T EVEN HAVE ONE... (1760 opti 150) just looked out the window...
you need to get the proper stainless prop that you paid for on this thing and go with it... guys here should get the right prop picked out for you... that aluminum is now your spare...
I bought my tuffy last spring and rigged it here myself in NY...
any questions, drop me a PM... |
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| Clarification.
The boat isn't running light. I have the trolling motor installed, with 2 deep cycle batteries and a charger under the rod storage, and a trolling motor up front (with quick release plate). The installation is just the depth finder.
The Merc optimax 115 does not use the oil tank in the boat, as it has its own internal oil reservoir. I don't have anything real heavy in any of the storage compartments, so with only me (pretty portly) on the starboard side, it is definitely starboard heavy, yet lists significantly to the left on plane.
When that stainless prop didn't come in, the dealer subtracted its cost, so I haven't paid for it. How does the material of the prop influence the torque? The dealer told me it was a merc vengeance prop, but I don't know the specs. What prop should I be running? Is there a standard set-up for this boat? |
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| just as a side note - the power wire for your sonar will be white and the ground will be black (not red and black). these are pre-wired to the "ACC" buttons on your control touch pad on the console.
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| The transducer mounting plate, if it's not hanging below the bottom of the hull, shouldn't make a difference. Try it without the transducer. Bring a wrench to adjust the tab to see if you can adjust it for better results. Also, are you running with a full tank of gas? See what happens if you have just a few gallons in it. |
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