Walleye Discussion Forums
| ||
| View previous thread :: View next thread | |
| Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] Walleye Fishing -> General Discussion -> BASS Eliminates Co-Angler |
| Message Subject: BASS Eliminates Co-Angler | |||
tyee |
| ||
Member Posts: 1406 | Bass takes competative fishing to the next level! Can it happen here????????? Elite series and co-anglers react to BASS's no co-angler in 2009 announcement Steve Bowman and Kyle Carter Updated: July 16, 2008, 4:58 PM ET Comment Email Print LAS VEGAS, Nev. — When Greg Hackney learned of BASS' decision to eliminate co-anglers from the 2009 Elite Series, he didn't mince words. "It's the greatest thing to ever happen to the sport of bass fishing,' Hackney said from the floor of the 2008 ICAST Show. Larry Towell Greg Hackney weighs in a largemouth at the 2008 Bluegrass Brawl There were several professional anglers working the floor of the show who agree with Hackney, but almost equally spread out among manufacturers and retailers was a feeling of disappointment tempered by understanding. "I certainly understand how the pros feel,' said Eric Naig of Pure Fishing, who has competed as co-angler. "But as a manufacturer it's a little disappointing, because it's been a great way for us to grow our pyramid of influence. I do understand, though." That feeling was consistent with a handful of manufacturers asked about the impending change. "I think it takes away the true interaction between angler and hard-core angler,' said John Barnes of Strike King. "But I'm sure the pros are tickled to death." And for the most part he is right. ESPN Outdoors asked a half dozen Bassmaster Elite Series anglers at ICAST how they felt about the change. The responses ranged from extremely positive to moderate indifference. "I think that is awesome." Said Elite Series pro Fred Roumbanis. "It really changes the course of the game when you have a co-angler in the back of the boat." At the heart of the change is the extreme competitiveness of the Elite Series. Like many professional events in this era, that tour has operated the last three years under a pro-am style format. Each day a professional angler is paired with a co-angler and the two compete individually from one boat. The professional angler fishes against all the other professionals from the front of the boat, while the co-angler competes against the other co-anglers from the back of the boat. And both spend a lot of time watching each other. "Personally, I learned a lot from the pros," said Lee Sisson, who fished four times as a co-angler this season and had two top 10s. "I understand from the angler's point of view that every fish I catch is one he's not going to catch tomorrow. So for the overall picture, I think it's a good move, but as a co-angler, I hate to see it go." BASS communications Kevin Short waits for the official launch time with his co-angler. The stakes are high on both ends. The professional is vying for a $100,000 top prize, a Toyota Tundra Bassmaster Angler of the Year title and a spot into the Bassmaster Classic. The co-angler is fishing for $25,000. The high stakes often creates a situation where co-anglers compete all out and impact the professional's day. "This is our job, though," said Kevin Short, an Elite Series competitor who has been outspoken in his blogs on ESPNOutdoors.com about the role co-anglers play in the outcome of these events. "None of those guys are showing up trying to make their house payment or take care of their bills. They get to fish, possibly win, and go home. But in the process they can also change the outcome of one of our tournaments and impact a pro's career." Many of the pros acknowledge that there has been the occasion when a co-angler has helped a professional angler find and catch fish. Hackney gave an example of a professional struggling in the front of the boat with a crankbait, while the co-angler was just fishing in the back of the boat with a plastic worm. "He catches one on that worm or off a piece of cover and it tips the professional angler on what to do next,' Hackney said. Many of the anglers say that type of thing waters down the competition on the Elite Series. "This decision is the best possible thing for our sport,' said Ish Monroe, an Elite angler. "It takes the elite anglers and turns them into truly Elite anglers, where they compete against each other in the truest form of competition." Monroe's statement, according to Tom Ricks, General Manager of BASS, is the primary reason for the decision. Larry Towell Peter Thliveros finds a place to park as he brings his limit to the weigh-in. He would place 27th in the Bluegrass Brawl presented by DieHard Platinum Marine Batteries. "It's the next logical step for the Elite Series; to truly turn this into a professional sport and level the playing field for the guys involved," he said. But it doesn't come with out some hesitation. Even in the middle of celebrating the idea that they will no longer have to contend with an angler competing in their boat, pros and manufacturers do feel a little trepidation. "You've got to be careful with what you're doing here," said Elite Series angler Peter Thliveros. "Co-anglers are the guys that have perpetuated the myth of a lot of the top guys. "Their word of mouth is how a lot of this industry was built to this point. Maybe so many of the stories don't get out the way they used to and it turns into NASCAR where everybody knows you, but they don't know you." [ REPORT ABUSE ] [ Print this message ] | ||
| |||
| WalleyeHunter |
| ||
| Well, at this point, I have to believe that, whats bad about having a co angler in the walleye world? Put Greg Hackney in 5 footers with a 10 pounder on the line.....He might change his mind in a hurry. My 2 cents....Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings! | |||
| |||
| john mannerino |
| ||
Member Posts: 1188 Location: Chicago IL. | I also think it will hurt the walleye formats. Co`s keep everybody honest!!!! You have to take into account the sponsers, they support the biz. I think it`s a bad move. | ||
| |||
| Guest |
| ||
| I didn't think co's were allowed behind the wheel???? If so wouldn't that eliminate some of the cheating that John talks of? | |||
| |||
| LurePresentation |
| ||
Member Posts: 132 | I know it's only bass, but what about safety reasons too. LP | ||
| |||
| Guest |
| ||
| Well, you make it a pro only type of thing, and people will find a way to cheat. The paychecks in the FLW Tour are too big for at least someone to try to get away with something. And what is the deal with BASS? Arent the pro/co teams weighing there fish as a team like the walleye tours or do they only weigh there own? | |||
| |||
| TJ DeVoe |
| ||
Member Posts: 1040 Location: Stevens Point, WI | No, they are not weighing like teams. The pro catches and weighs the fish he gets and the co-angler catches and weighs the fish he catches. They still work together finding fish but do not weigh the same bag. As for cheating on this level, I'm not saying it won't or couldn't happen, but I think those at this level are smart enough to realize that with so many people following there sport and people around them constantly, cheating at this level would be difficult. If someone were to be caught cheating, there professional fishing career would be done! The guys fishing the Elite Series are there because they earned the right to be there, I just don't see one of them cheating and potentially putting themselves at risk of losing that. It could happen though, money talks. Another thing to keep in mind, they might be getting rid of co-anglers, but I think a lot of the guys may have some sort of media guy with them during the tournament. Either a film crew guy, some other sort of media guy, a spotter or just another extra person in the boat to allow a full limit in the boat. Edited by TJ DeVoe 7/18/2008 11:37 AM | ||
| |||
| stacker |
| ||
Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Just a clarification. BASS and the tour do not go where they cannot cull. That all but eliminates cheating. BASS was in wisconsin 1 time where they do not allow culling. They will not return. As far as further cheating, gotta say, the guys at that level are a bit different than the bar tourney angler. Hiding fish and such just doesn't fit in the picture. I do not know of a boater, even as far down as the BFL that works together with a co-oangler to catch fish. The co's job is this, They cannot fish from the front of the boat, period. If the boater asks them to manuver the boat, they can do so but cannot cast. They fish from the back and cannot cast past the boater. There are very strict rules in there sport. They are mean and viscious compared to the walleye guys. They fish for themselves. This is a good thing for the pro's as they can fish a spot and take what they want from it and not let another 5 or 10 fish get sore mouthed along with it. They can keep spots better longer for the 4th day. | ||
| |||
| tyee |
| ||
Member Posts: 1406 | So True Denny! This level of competition is why they are so far ahead compared to the Walleye world, we'll get there eventually (hopefully) but it is a long way to go in changing the minds of those all ready used to fishing with a co-angler and maybe even harder to imagine for those fishing in "TEAM" events and sharring fish. In my simple mind fishing has always been an individual sport and my view points are often skewed in that direction bring competition into it and the rules have a way of changing, hence the reason some may think I am anti-tourney which is so far from the truth I laugh everytime. I think it's a great change and your sure to hear many differing viewpoints. Good Luck Tyee | ||
| |||
| WalleyeHunter |
| ||
| Definetley got a interesting post here Tyee. I believe that the way the FLW Walleye tour is run there is no need to change in my eyes. And you are correct with thefact fishing is an individual thing, well, to an extent. If a pro in the walleye tour is worried his fish are getting sore mouths he doesnt have to stay there and fish them for the co angler. BASS can and will do what they want, but it would, it my opinion, be foolish for anything like this to happen for walleyefisherman. With the waters they fish, and the different climates that walleye anglers fish, I think a pro/co team format is awesome, and the co will always keep the pro honest no matter what. | |||
| |||
| stacker |
| ||
Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | tyee - 7/18/2008 12:33 PM So True Denny! This level of competition is why they are so far ahead compared to the Walleye world, we'll get there eventually (hopefully) but it is a long way to go in changing the minds of those all ready used to fishing with a co-angler and maybe even harder to imagine for those fishing in "TEAM" events and sharring fish. ROD, YOU MAY HAVE MISS UNDERSTOOD ME. I AM NOT SAYING THATTHE BASS GUYS ARE AT A LEVEL THAT IS SUPERIOR TO THE WALLEYE GUY, I THINK THE WALLEYE PRO HAS THE SAME NO CHEAT VALUES AS THE BASS GUYS AT THAT LEVEL. In my simple mind fishing has always been an individual sport and my view points are often skewed in that direction bring competition into it and the rules have a way of changing, hence the reason some may think I am anti-tourney which is so far from the truth I laugh everytime. I think it's a great change and your sure to hear many differing viewpoints. THE ONE THING ABOUT BASS IS THEY LIVE IN SPECIFIC AREAS. THESE GUYS DONT TEAM UP AS MUCH BECAUSE THEY WOULD GIVE A FISH AWAY. IN THERE END OF THIS GAME, I THINK ITS A GOOD THING, IN THE WALLEYES, IT WOULD NOT MATTER. RIGHT NOW THE CO- IS THE GREAT EQUALIZER. Good Luck Tyee | ||
| |||
| john mannerino |
| ||
Member Posts: 1188 Location: Chicago IL. | Stacker good point. | ||
| |||
| tyee |
| ||
Member Posts: 1406 | I understood you and agree about the level of profesionalism (does that surprise you hehe) As far as them being different, you lost me. I know bass make beds all over the place and Walleyes tend to spawn (when they are targeted the most) in Schools ......but any other time of year they are not much different, you have a jig bite you have a trolling bite you have a casting bite and even a slip bobber bite with Walleyes, As well Bass have simialar opportunities at these times of year so I don't see why it wouldn't work, many guys work the same structure over and over in both Walleye and Bass. How would a co would make a difference? Care to elaborate more on your view? Theres a 25pound large mouth in Lake Dixon in CA and everyone knows it yet it has been caught only a few times as it tends to move year to year? Walleyes migrate as well and aren't as "confined" why would not having a co change the game? Good Luck Tyee Edited by tyee 7/19/2008 1:31 AM | ||
| |||
| stacker |
| ||
Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | tyee - 7/19/2008 1:28 AM I understood you and agree about the level of profesionalism (does that surprise you hehe) As far as them being different, you lost me. I know bass make beds all over the place and Walleyes tend to spawn (when they are targeted the most) in Schools ......but any other time of year they are not much different, you have a jig bite you have a trolling bite you have a casting bite and even a slip bobber bite with Walleyes, As well Bass have simialar opportunities at these times of year so I don't see why it wouldn't work, many guys work the same structure over and over in both Walleye and Bass. How would a co would make a difference? Care to elaborate more on your view? Theres a 25pound large mouth in Lake Dixon in CA and everyone knows it yet it has been caught only a few times as it tends to move year to year? Walleyes migrate as well and aren't as "confined" why would not having a co change the game? Good Luck Tyee hahahahaha on the "surprise you" comment. mentioning swapping fish and teaming up, well, it doesn't sound like you agree. Walleyes, IMHO are a more nomadic fish tending to be here today, gone tomarrow. That is simply my opinion after chasing them for the last 30 years. Quite frankly I know several guys who fish bass weekly and this is what they say: the pressure they have is getting the bass to bite after they have been sore mouthed. They stay put but just get more selective over time. As for the Co angler being the great equalizer. The level of fisherman that is at the co-angler/amature position in the boat can sometimes be fantastic. Meaning, he works well with you and knows what you are thinking beforeyou do, but then there is the needle in the haystack problem. They are a needle in the haystack. I don't care how many people you fish with, in 1 day it is hard to be a well oiled team. Its like taking a kid fishing. I mean no offense to the co-s as I have been there as well. Heck, if I get in tyee's boat for the day, I may never be able to catch on to how he wants things done in the 8hr period. The equalizer, they may net, or hook fish and horse them, you just never know what might happen. Anyone who has ever fished as a boater at any level will attest to this. For the bass guys it is simple. Most bass guys prefish alone so they find fish, they know where they are at and not everybody. They can control the amount of bites they allow out of an area daily unless other boaters have found the fish. Thats my 2 cents. | ||
| |||
| Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] |
| Search this forum Printer friendly version E-mail a link to this thread |
Copyright © 2025 OutdoorsFIRST Media | About Us | Contact Us | Advertise
News | Video | Audio | Chat | Forums | Rankings | Big Fish | Sponsors | Classified Boat Ads | Tournaments | FAQ's
News | Video | Audio | Chat | Forums | Rankings | Big Fish | Sponsors | Classified Boat Ads | Tournaments | FAQ's