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Walleye Fishing -> General Discussion -> Fishing Tournaments as a Business
 
Message Subject: Fishing Tournaments as a Business
Mr. Darboy
Posted 3/24/2009 3:39 PM (#79368)
Subject: Fishing Tournaments as a Business



Member

Posts: 514

Location: Darboy USA
Any of you guys use your tournament fishing as a business? I'm looking at possibly starting up a sole propriatorship and would like some advice from those who have done so or something similar. If anyone has, please contact me on here or at [email protected]. Thanks.

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Shep
Posted 3/24/2009 3:43 PM (#79369 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business



Member

Posts: 3899

I think lots of tourney anglers approach it as a business. Tax numbers and all that goes with it. Keeping receipts, writing off expenses, and claiming income, shooting 1099's to teammates, etc.

If I couldn't write off my expenses, my winnings would have me in a different income bracket!

Edited by Shep 3/24/2009 3:44 PM
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stacker
Posted 3/24/2009 3:55 PM (#79373 - in reply to #79369)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


Member

Posts: 2445

Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
Talk to your accountant or tax firm you use. There is a place to deduct hobby winnings with expenses and then you dont have to go through all the mumbo jumbo. Nice and easy.

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Horshak
Posted 3/24/2009 5:20 PM (#79381 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: Re: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


Member

Posts: 921

Location: Manitowoc, WI
If you do it as a business, be prepared to show intent to increase income along with providing services like advertrising for your sponsors. You can't just fish without doing anything that makes it a business. Keep good records of everything you do and talk to a CPA before you jump in. Good luck!
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Guess
Posted 3/24/2009 7:23 PM (#79386 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


I found it difficult to keep any comfort level with writing off expenses.i did it for few years and then i started to wonder what might happen with no winning$$ to even come close to write offs and worse cause getting audited even with immaculate recording keeping my fear is they come back and then you owe 20-50k. Some guys consitently win money but i dont! If i was licensed guide then i would feel alot more comfortable with the whole thing but i'm not.... good luck
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bigshooter1
Posted 3/25/2009 12:39 PM (#79419 - in reply to #79369)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


New User

Posts: 3

Shep,

How many and what tournaments are you winning? You must be doing really good to put you in a higher tax bracket.

BS
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Shep
Posted 3/25/2009 3:46 PM (#79425 - in reply to #79419)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business



Member

Posts: 3899

A person can't even laugh at himself these days. Nice first post and impression, BS. Do any of you guys have a sense of humor? Sheesh.

If a person cashes a check, is that money considered winnings? Or do you actually have to place first to consider it winnings?

I guess I should have spelled it out for guys like you. Maybe I should have said earnings, instead of winnings. A different tax bracket doesn't necessarily mean a HIGHER tax bracket. Now do you get it?
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thumper
Posted 3/25/2009 3:48 PM (#79426 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: Re: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


Member

Posts: 744

Hey now...Shep's forgot more about walleye fishing than he ever knew...err...somthin' like that anyway...
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Mark Komo
Posted 3/25/2009 6:58 PM (#79432 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: Re: Fishing Tournaments as a Business



Member

Posts: 1195

Location: Orland Park, IL
Give em heck, shep.
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CT
Posted 3/26/2009 9:38 AM (#79444 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


wow, the guy gives you kudos for doing good and asks a simple question about what tournaments you fish and you jump down his throat, why assume he was being negative
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Rich S
Posted 3/26/2009 9:42 AM (#79445 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: Re: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


Member

Posts: 2300

Location: Berlin
CT, wow Shep gives the guy a nice quick response to his question. I don't see Shep's reply jumping down his throat in any way shape or form. Why are you assuming Shep's post to be negative?
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CT
Posted 3/26/2009 10:00 AM (#79446 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


Then why did Komo also say "give em heck shep"?
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Rich S
Posted 3/26/2009 10:49 AM (#79449 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: Re: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


Member

Posts: 2300

Location: Berlin
I can't speak for Mark but he was probably wishing Shep luck the next time he went fishing.
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CT
Posted 3/26/2009 10:57 AM (#79450 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


LOL, yeah ok.
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Sunshine
Posted 3/26/2009 12:25 PM (#79453 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business



Member

Posts: 2393

Location: Waukesha Wisconsin

In defense of Shep, I did tournaments for a year with him. He ended up the season with over one million dollars. he went on to bigger and greater things after that one year with me. He even coined a new phrase in the walleye world that you may have heard of. His famous quote is: " If you want to make a million dollars fishing walleye tournaments make sure that you start with two million dollars."

Sheeeez guys!

Loosen up a little, the winter is over and the fishing is starting to get hot. Check out your boat, dust off those rods and go fishing. You'll get a better attitude.

 

Shep was giving you tongue and cheek answers. He was trying to share his wit and humor (which he has a lot of). Lighten up.

 

On a serious note:

I have been running my guide/tournament business for about 10 years. Truthfully, I could not do this without the guide business and good sponsors. You need to show a profit after a period of time or it is a hobby like others mentioned. Different rules in both categories. My advice is to get a good accountant who can keep you out of trouble and keep meticulous records.

 

I have seen great sticks come and go who frankly kicked my butt fishing. But they had no business sense and sold the farm on a wish and prayer. Don't put yourself into hock chasing a dream or it will turn into a nightmare. If you are married it gets worst if you put yourself into financial problems and you do not communicate with your wife. You need her total support in more than one way.

Everyone envisions "the business" as a way to fish for free. They visual tournament fishermen having fun in sunny skies, a hot bite with mild winds.

 

The rude awakening occurs when you wake up after 4 -5 hours sleep and for those initial 20 seconds you forget where you are, what state you are visiting and what day it is. No one realizes that last summer most of us were spending $100 a day for gas alone seeking the dream. Your days start very early in the morning and last late into the night. Besides fishing you are tying crawler harnesses, changing line, cleaning/maintaining the boat, checking out tips, dialoguing with associates, making phone calls, fulfilling sponsorship duties, pouring over maps etc.etc.etc.

 

My advice to anyone considering the adventure is to sit down and do the math for expenses versus possible winnings. This has been discussed many times but the economy is making it even more difficult. As an example:

 

Entry fee = $1500 (add $250 for AIM)

Hotel costs = $400

Food = $150

Bait = $100

Gas = $600

Misc. fishing needs = $150

Boat oil = $40

 

Total cost of minimum expenses getting by cheaply is usually $3,000 a tournament for national level tournaments.

 

Now look at payouts for AIM and FLW.

AIM (with a full field) pays $2500 for 11th place

FLW (with a full field) pays $3,500 for 16th-20th (unless you have the right boat and motor, then add $1,000.

 

Let those figures sink in a bit. We all think that we are the best in the nation and can compete, otherwise we wouldn’t be there. The question to ask is how consistently will you place in the top 20 or top 10. That’s how you make money (but little) tournament fishing.

 

To make it financially you need to generate income other ways to survive. Good sponsorship helps a great deal but lots of that has dried up during these tough economic times. Guiding pays the bills for me. Many have real jobs ( I do too). Develop a name and seminars will help. Writing pays too little to think about but keeps your name out there and helps with sponsorship.

 

I write all of this to help and have anyone considering the leap to go in with eyes wide open. Before I get slammed, I do not do the full circuit in either the FLW Tour or AIM. I’m one of those that pick and choose events that I can get into. I usually do 2-3 national events a year and then I do state level tournaments. Why? Do the math above.

 

Please do not interpret this message as being negative. I love doing what I do. You have too love it to keep going. It has to be a passion and almost and addiction to keep doing it.

 

I honor those on this site that they call the “iron men”. I am amazed that they have the stamina, love, passion and desire to keep going every year doing the amount of tournaments that they do.

 

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Gary Parsons
Posted 3/26/2009 1:52 PM (#79459 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


Spot on Sunshine,
Couldn't have said it any better!
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Mr. Darboy
Posted 3/26/2009 2:00 PM (#79460 - in reply to #79459)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business



Member

Posts: 514

Location: Darboy USA
Great post Sunshine! Luckily for me, I'm smart enough to know that I am in a position to fish only small local circuits like the MWS. I too have seen lots of guys trying to "live the dream", only to wind up bankrupt and alone after the wife and kids left them. If I win the lottery, maybe then I'd have some excess money to spend fishing the national level events, until then, I will spend a few thousand dollars fishing for fun and the competition of it all.

My initial question was as it related to doing something smaller scale and locally like many others on this site do. In doing more research and talking to others, I will keep it as a hobby at this point and not pursue the tax benefits of a business.
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Nice info. A must re
Posted 3/28/2009 8:34 AM (#79534 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


WOW

Nice info. A must read
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sworrall
Posted 3/28/2009 8:42 AM (#79535 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: Re: Fishing Tournaments as a Business




Location: Rhinelander
Sunshine, that's well said.

If you can afford to fish, and want to...go for it. If you can't, you are gambling. Better on the water than a casino, but still gambling.
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mrmodog
Posted 3/28/2009 8:44 AM (#79536 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


Member

Posts: 219

Mr Darboy,

If you are planning to write off your fishing expenses, you should look at changing your signature.  That signature screams 'audit me'!! LOL   

 

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Shep
Posted 3/28/2009 11:28 AM (#79542 - in reply to #79536)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business



Member

Posts: 3899

Bigshooter,

Sorry that I responded the way I did. I see now that you were not shooting out a dig, and that you are interested in tournament angling. If there is anything I can do to help, PM me, and I'll answer honestly as best as I can.

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FISHTRAP
Posted 3/28/2009 2:09 PM (#79549 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


Good job sunshine
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stacker
Posted 3/28/2009 2:47 PM (#79550 - in reply to #79542)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


Member

Posts: 2445

Location: Fremont, Wisconsin
shep you loose cannon you!! LOL
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guest
Posted 3/31/2009 12:54 PM (#79719 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: RE: Fishing Tournaments as a Business


thanks stacker
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Jayman
Posted 3/31/2009 2:10 PM (#79722 - in reply to #79368)
Subject: Re: Fishing Tournaments as a Business



Member

Posts: 1656

Chaseing the dream as a Professional Gamblerrrrrrrrr Fisherman. Somebody finally said it.

Keep buying big fancy boats and every well promoted product and some day you'll reach the top! Remember, you gotta pay to play.
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