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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Has anyone added up the buy in and payback from the FLW, is that right on both entry and side pot? If so, all I gotta say is WOW!!!! |
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Location: Rhinelander | Link? |
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| http://walleyetour.flwoutdoors.com/tournament.cfm?cid=5&did=0&t=det... |
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| I'm lazy today. Is that WOW! good? Or WOW! bad?
Help us out here, Stacker! |
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Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | OK, what am I missing.
I added up what was being taken in at the FLW tour events by the pros. 150 players at 750.00 is 112,500 and the payout schedule is 76,000. Its a 36,500 difference x 6 equals219,000. They have no entry championship and payout 61,500 making a profit of 157,500.00 The amatures pay 250 for a pot of 37,500 and get a payback of 17,000 for a tidy some of 20,500 x 6 = 123,000. They payback 12,775 at the championship for a 110,225.00 profit.
267,725.00 before expenses? Thats not it. Check this out.
Side pot, pro regular event, 60,000 in and 50,250 pay out, a profit of 9750 x 6= 58,500 and at the championship they will pay back31,000 of 37,500 collected leaving someone with 6500 for cocktails? Add it up and thats and additoional 65,000. OOOppss for got the am side pot during 6 events is 15,000 x 6= 90,000 and they pay back 9400.00 x 6 = 56400.00 and it leaves margin of 33,600.
366,325.00 Is this correct? Is this the expected margin with full fields by the FLW this year? That is all fisherman monies, no sponsor dollars yet.
Tell me it aint so Joe! Tell me it aint so. |
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| Imagine that! Stacker causing trouble. I guess the boat business is too slow today so you have to preach again! Have you checked the payout on some of the local tournaments? Like just upriver Denny? |
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Member
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | yep, sure have, wont fish them, come out from behind the curtain, why speak from back there you coward. Oh, by the way, are you entered and did not check the payouts?
Edited by stacker 4/1/2010 2:50 PM
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Also, the little tournaments are not billing themselves as the pro circuit with the best walleye fisherman in the world. Someone has to call the bad guys of this business out on the carpet. Gotta clean up the barn before you can pave the floor. |
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Location: Badgerland | I'm certainly not going to argue with my friend Dennis, but I have a guestion, if the entries go down so does the FLW take, so the percentage of what they take remains the same and I guess overall that is your point, the ratio right ? but regaurdless of the entries they're operating expences remain the same weather 50 guys show or 150, so they stand to either make it or break it, they must look at the low end, and figure what they need to make to cover thier expences if turnout is low ? yes or no ? |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | 620, In this day and age, and of course that long drawn out post on just posting names in advance, I cannot believe that we are willing to accept the notion that operating costs allow them to keep so much money. About 30%. There are sponsor dollars that are coming in the door as well. If everyone thinks it is OK then so be it. I will say that I do not think it is OK. That would be the difference between the FLW and AIM. |
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Location: Badgerland | Your right it is a BUTTPILE of percentage. If they are running that plan on a worst case scenario, then maybe thier formula should change with the number of entries, where as once they're covered the ratio changes to the anglers pocket. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Remember that they also have advertising dollars coming in and sponsorship dollars. I would speculate that there are lots of dollars there. They used to pay back almost 100% of the entry's. I am not sure why they are on this path, but it is not good for the fisherman, and is not good for the sport. |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | I agree with you Denny, but what is the alternative for those who want to fish against the best? If they boycott the circuit will certainly fold. The only other option is AIM. Pretty sad for those who only want to fish the FLW isn't it? |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Agree 100% it is sad that the fisherman who want to fish the FLW have been handed this ultimatum. Here is what we are doing, like it or not. |
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| stacker - 4/1/2010 5:48 PM
Agree 100% it is sad that the fisherman who want to fish the FLW have been handed this ultimatum. Here is what we are doing, like it or not.
Diesel was $3.04 a gallon today. Another take it or leave it proposition.
I will admit that by your numbers it seems excessive what they take off the top. That said I don't know what the expenses are. As we all know businesses must turn a profit. Mine does, your does, AIM does and I'm guessing FLW also needs to turn a profit.
As you yourself said, it's a take it or leave it type of deal. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Brian, lets say, for arguements sake, that AIM is turning a profit. We can both safely say that they are not doing it from anglers monies, correct? They pay back entries at 100%, is that correct? FLW keeps 30%? Is that correct?
I was just checking to see if I was missing something and was shocked.
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| stacker - 4/2/2010 1:54 PM
Brian, lets say, for arguements sake, that AIM is turning a profit. We can both safely say that they are not doing it from anglers monies, correct? They pay back entries at 100%, is that correct? FLW keeps 30%? Is that correct?
I was just checking to see if I was missing something and was shocked.
Oh I guess I don't care where their profits come from. We both agree there has to be profit. If it comes from entries so be it. In fact the profit should come from entries, sponsorship, advertising, food sales ect. A bit from everything in my opinion.
In my business to survive I need to make a bit from new equipment sales, used equipment sales, parts, service, trucking, appraisals ect.
I'm thinking most businesses operate the same way. Although some will take more then others.
If the issue is "how much they make" perhaps you should start your own circuit, you can charge less and take their clients. (maybe) If the issue is just to have something to post about and pass the time it worked fine. 
Sorry it took so long for me to respond. Couldn't decide if this was worth getting into since it really doesn't affect me. |
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Member
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin |
Sorry it took so long for me to respond. Couldn't decide if this was worth getting into since it really doesn't affect me.
Brian, this has been a serious issue for many fisherman for many years. This is different than conventional business. This is also the largest take by a promoter in the history of the sport. When we talk next year about why this happened and that happened and why ain't they doing tourneys anymore, read this post again. So, If you dont care then stay out of the talk, by the hits it looks like many others do care. It is as easy as that. |
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| stacker - 4/3/2010 9:51 AM
Sorry it took so long for me to respond. Couldn't decide if this was worth getting into since it really doesn't affect me.
Brian, this has been a serious issue for many fisherman for many years. This is different than conventional business. This is also the largest take by a promoter in the history of the sport. When we talk next year about why this happened and that happened and why ain't they doing tourneys anymore, read this post again. So, If you dont care then stay out of the talk, by the hits it looks like many others do care. It is as easy as that.
I'll disagree. It's no different then any other business. YOU just want to make it different. Money is money. Since they don't wanna play your way you want to change them. Why don't you just start your own or fish the ones that fit your idea's.
As far as as the interest Rich........geez there has been 18 responses. You made 8 posts, I made 3 including this one, couple of guests and a few others!! Not exactly burning the keyboards are they? Now, it's either because ........
A) People don't care
B) They realize you will keep pounding your agenda
C) They all agree with you and there is nothing to say.
For me? I'm done. Keep pushing your beliefs, keeping peeing against the wind. |
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Location: Rhinelander | The FLW Walleye Tour has some serious 2010 issues. ALL the Pros I have talked to are very concerned about it.
Note the last two major statements by Mr. Jacobs don't even mention Walleye.
Payout is number One. One needs, if the boats are in the numbers most anticipate, to finish in the top 3 to break even. That's not a realistic 'Pro' Circuit goal if one looks at FISHING the tour as a business, and if one is serious about surviving tournament angling financially, especially if one hasn't deep pockets, they'd better. The reality of it is the FLW Walleye Tour now has approximately the same 'status' as the MWC should have based upon payouts, promotional venues, and who's probably going to fish, and most importantly what the Circuit offers the Pros in return for fishing it. That's key....and a major conversation point at AIM every day.
No TV anymore is number 2. HUGE expense gone. HUGE promotional vehicle gone.
Obvious tighter focus by FLW on the Bass and less on the Walleye side is number 3.
Lower entry fees isn't that big a deal. Lower payouts are. Catch 22...attempt to draw in the now defunct Walleye League folks and locals to keep boat numbers up, but payout is low enough where one might lose significant numbers of all including the folks who made the FLW Walleye Tour interesting to watch and therefore of interest to the sponsors interested in the number of impressions theyare paying for....hard call. If the FLW Walleye Tour was all the sponsors were paying for, there'd be a hell of a lot more trouble now than there is.
AIM had a side pot last year. I'd be surprised if they have one this year, the concept only worked at all for one event, and it was 100% pay back, I believe. For the FLW to use the 'side pot' as a way to claim higher payback, and then KEEP a percentage of it looks.....odd.
If the FLW Walleye Tour can't afford to offer a quality environment for the Pros to fish within because of financial issues, the result will be predictable and VERY bad for competitive walleye angling overall. I like Sonny and Mark quite a bit; great folks totally committed to their job. I truly enjoyed working onsite of every event. I would be DELIGHTED if the FLW pulls out of the current flat spin and re-establishes the Walleye Tour as at least what it was last year.
So discussing the reality of what is happening isn't an 'agenda', it's what people who are fans and participants WILL do. The reason many folks don't comment is because they are not willing to 'debate' this sort of thing in the manner our friend 'guest' offers. Believe me, folks concerned with Pro Walleye Angling are watching and worrying about the 2010 FLW Walleye Tour. |
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Member
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| I have been a lurker on this site for many years, and this is one of the first posts I have ever made, but I feel strongly about this issue. I started fishing walleye tournaments in the mid 90's. Quit about 2000 when you had to have a brand new boat to qualify to even fish in tournaments. RCL was the beginning of the end for a lot of recreational tournament anglers.... |
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