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Location: Rhinelander | What is TOO light when looking for small diameter line when fishing:
Jigs
Cranks
spinners/rigs
I keep hearing one needs to keep the line diameter small, use light line. What IS light line, by your application? |
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Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Sworrall,
You ask a very god question. The simple answer is that the application dictates what is considered TOO thin.
My rule of thumb for jigging is to go with the lightest jig possible and the lightest line possible. This may mean flipping a 1/16th ounce jig with one pound test. This would be a shallow water application and/or in very clear water with few snags. As a general rule, the larger the jig size the larger the diameter line. An example would be vertical jigging ½ ounce jigs using 10 pound test mono or 6/20 Power Pro. If you’re casting/flipping light jigs sometimes it’s advantageous to use a higher diameter line so that your jig descent is slower. This works great when fish are hitting on the drop and not picking it up off the bottom. Not to complicate things too much in this conversation, but the descent is something that I play around with a lot. I’ll bulk up the jig body to get a slower descent or drop down a jig size if changing line is not an option. I should also add that sometimes using a larger jig size is advantageous to stir things up on the bottom. In this application a larger line dia. is better.
For crawler harnesses I have found that using a lighter dia. line is a disadvantage instead of an advantage. Smaller diameter lines will cause the harness to develop an “S” curve and not allow the blades to work as well. I have gone to 20 pound test Seaguar for better action, less nicks, better abrasion, and fewer break-offs. This line is supposed to be invisible under water.
For crankbaits, my go to line is 10 pound test. The main reason is the ability to use the Precision Trolling book. I feel that you are not finesse fishing when using a crankbait so lighter lines are not necessary. You’re looking for a reactionary bite. Fish do not have an opportunity to study your offering like they do when using a Lindy rig or a jig.
Now, don’t even get me started on the use of braided lines versus mono. I find myself using Power Pro for more and more applications. I know of a few tournament fishermen who have had great success using 20 pound Power Pro for crawler harnesses in some very clear water situations. They switched because of the zebra mussels and have been very successful using this setup.
Rigging is a completely different subject. There have been many times when I have gone to 4 pound test when using a Lindy Rig type setup. Fish have a lot of time to study the offering. I also play around with leader length. Sometimes they want 8-10 feet, sometimes they are attracted to the weight kicking up the bottom and 18" is all you need.
Hope this helps,
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Dennis hit the nail right on the head. The only thing I can add is there are different applications for different conditions. I have 4 rods rigged with Flame Fireline 10/4 that I use in snagfilled conditions and for jigging in the cane. I also use Seaguar fluorocarbon leader material (20 lb) for spinner rigging. I use Trilene XT 10 lb for most trolling situations. The only time I use Fireline for trolling is when trolling cranks around rocks and reefs.
For clear water jigging situations, I usually start with Trilene XT Solar in 6 lb., sometimes going down to 4 lb if the bite is difficult. |
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2# test is to light of line for jigging walleyes. Many times their sharp teeth will just break you off. Have been very successful using 4# Trilene XT, and in combination with a very stiff but light rod (gloomis 6' maglight with and extra fast tip) this is my favorite fishing technique.
But the zebra mussels have changed everything for me. If they are present, they shred through 4# with just a few casts. In that case it is to light and have changed my line to a small diameter Power Pro type.
For casting and trolling cranks, and spinners, I used to exclusively use 10# XT, but have since switched to 12# Silver Thread. Same diameter and abrasive resistance, but also totally disappears when under water. With the abuse cranking can do to a fishing line (it must hold up to snapweights and inline boards), much lighter than 10# is asking for trouble.
With rigging, last time in Minnesota, used 4# XL as the main line, with 4# XT for a leader. Again, the XT is for protection against the fish's sharp teeth.
The application for light line is you have a more direct connection with your baits, as heavier line will "pull water" and create more slack in the line.
Edited by Rick Larson 12/4/2003 9:45 AM
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Originally written by sworrall on 2003-12-04 8:15 AM
What is TOO light when looking for small diameter line when fishing:
Jigs
Cranks
spinners/rigs
I keep hearing one needs to keep the line diameter small, use light line. What IS light line, by your application?
Steve.
Given the options in today braided world, the line diametor question alomost becomes mute. The line I use (2/10 RipCord) when quarter casting or vertical jigging is so thin it might be mistook for a spiders web if it was hanging in a tree. I love it's castability features over anything else I've used, but give it little credit for making a difference in my walleye catch rate because of it's diametor. I've had to many clients show up with 15 pound Mason spolled up on their reels and catch just as many. Now if your talking about strickly mono, that makes the question a little harder to answer. But I know that you know, that different species of fish (in general} do not over react to different line sizes and visability.
No large diamitor mono is going to stop a hungry Muskie once he makes his mind up to strike. If having your whole pole in the water doing figure 8's near the boat don't intimidate him, no line is going to do it. This guy, as well as the majority of the Toothy, top of the food chain preditor species eats anything that swims. He hasn't spent his life scrutenizing over and foraging on small insects and invertibrates. I'm guessing he'd swallow a frog and the whole lilly pad he was sitting on, without batting an eye.
Now, set your sites on Brook Trout, Browns and Stream Rainbows, then we can talk stealth. Otherwise, line diametor is each man preference given the conditions he fishes in, what techniques he's using or wants to accomplish and what specie he's fishing for. Some of you guys may remember Dick Swan. He was a Michigan charter Captain who built the Swan Noodle Rods, pioneering using very light line for both trolling the Great Lakes and river fishing for Salmon and Steelhead. Dick never caught any more fish than anybody else using lighter line. But he did make some real eneimies playing the fish he hooked for a massive amount of time.
Edited by walleye express 12/4/2003 12:26 PM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Rick,
I obviously disagree with you on the 2 lb. test comment. I have caught a lot of fish using light jigs and 2 pound test line. I'm showing my age now but I started out reading one of the most important books I have ever read back in the late sixties (I was a very very young pup). The book was called "Lunkers Love Nightcrawlers". This first edition preached a method of live bait fishing using very light tackle. Their theory at the time was by the make-up of the walleye teeth, the line slides down between the gaps. The system works then and now.
If any of you have not read this book, I would suggest that you put it on your xmas list. I see that Fishing Facts has a new edition and if it's 1/2 as good as the original, you'll be extremely happy. It does a great job with a lot of fishing techniques like boat control, reading water, reading lake maps, learning electronics, etc., etc. You will not be disappointed.......trust me.
As a side note.........
I still have my original worm rod that was sold by Fishing Facts and I still cherish it to this day. Limber with a fast tip but with a strong butt(must be a joke there somewhere).
Has anyone else used a single lead shot, a small number 10 aberdeen hook, and small diameter line to catch BIG walleyes? You barely hook the crawler and add a small shot of air. It's the ultimate finesse rig IMHO.
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Location: La Crescent, MN | Sunshine, did you have the Nightcrawler Secrets box too?
Zach |
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Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Zach,
If you're referring to the original method(s) for storing and conditioning your crawlers, YES. I still practice many of those techniques today. I like nice fat sassy crawlers.
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Location: Rhinelander | Bill Binkelman. Wow. THERE is an indication how long we have been at this. This is from the very early 80's, when Bill hired me for w few days to see me catch Walleyes on Creatures. I was ALOT younger then.
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Sworrall,
That's an awesome picture and one that I'm sure that you're very proud of. What a great experience. I didn't know that you had such an impressive past.
Since we're traveling down memory lane here, I attached pictures of two books that I bet you have read or seen. I just thought that you'd get a kick out of them.
The two fishermen that really changed the way that I fished were Bill Binkelman and Buck Perry. Spoonplugging concepts and live bait rigging ideas became the buzz words of that day. Many of their ideas are used today and they set the foundation for where we are now.
All of this was long before 1968 when three walleye fishermen sat down and proposed a business. The trio of young anglers hoped to build this business by marketing a new product that would allow anglers to present their live bait in a more natural and efficient way.
Since that day walleye fishing in the U.S. has never been the same, and brothers Al and Ron Lindner along with Nick Adams revolutionized the way we catch fish. That fledgling company, which began in the back of a small shop with three employees, was named the Lindy Tackle Company and its revolutionary product was to be named the Lindy Rig.
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| Factors affecting line size you need that I can think of- size and pull of your bait/lure, amount of line out/stretch, amount of abrasive elements such as rocks, fish wariness
After some thought I'd say, in my opinion, that 4# test is about the lightest you can use in most walleye situations, and still be somewhat practical. You can use it for small cranks or jigs.I have never tried lighter than 4# test, but I have to say you can really put quite a bit of pressure on a big fish using 4# when the line is new. The only thing I don't like is that after some hard use I can't trust it. Nothing wrong with light line as long as you are willing to constantly check it and re-tie, and where I fish it simply isn't worth the hassle. My 'does everything' line is 8#, and I find that to be the best compromise line.
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| Since you asked! I prefer 6# XL for all eye fishing ice ore open water unless trolling when I go to 10# XT now maybe I should consider 4# thats an interesting concept woth todays light gear and maybe it would have prevented my new GLX from breakin in half, But I don't take the time to recheck baits over and over, so that might get costly for me, The only time I go lighter than 6# is ice fishin when I switch to 4# and don't have a bunch of weeds below my hole!
Does anyone have the scoop on why Gander is clearancing out all the guide series line they carry? I picked up the last 7000 yd. roll of 6# silicone they had for 6 bucks and they had a bunch of 2# 10,000yd rolls for about 5 bucks each, 400yd spools for .99. This should make a great gift for the kids as they tend to go through line like crazy. That will give them enough ice line for a long time! Couldn't think of anything the wife could use 2# for so left it for you guys
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Thats fine Sunshine, never think that I am smarter than a knowledgeable and experienced fishing guide as yourself, just more opinionated is all.
Its only been my experience, that getting bit off is easier with 2# test than 4# test. Please believe me, I have used 12 foot noodle rods with as low as 1# and caught fish. But lost enough on these lighter lines to consider it to be to much of a chance.
If all fisherman (including myself), were to read the book, we probably would be more experienced at fighting a fish and keeping the line between its teeth!
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Location: Menominee MI, In Da UP Eh? | Great topic!
I have been using Fireline 8-3 for jigging, both verticle and casting. I also played with Berkeleys Fluorocarbon and that stuff has some promise, but it twists worse than anything I have ever encountered. Iron silk is better if you want to use a mono type line, IMHO.
I used to use 6-2 Fireline but found that the line actually made a 1/16th oz jig too heavy to use in shallow water, so I went to 8-3 so the line drag was a little greater.
Now, after using the lines like I described, I am going to using the 6-2 and 4-1 for verticle jigging when line drag is a negative, and 8-3 or 10-4 for casting jigs when I want a long hang time.
However, if it is windy I will Cast jigs with the 6-2 to keep the wind from pushing the line around and taking the jig out of the target area too fast. (If you use fireline, you know what a little wind can do)
It is becoming more evident that one line and one test is getting further away from being able to use.
Also, I use my 6 foot ultralight and 4-1 Fireline to catch eyes frequently. If you think a 3 lb walleye fights well, you ought to try one on an ultra light. I use the fireline for two reasons. It burys the hook better and I can feel very light bites. My biggest eye on the ultra light is over 7 lbs!
Fireline and lines like it have changed the face of light line angling forever. I never worry about the line being able to hold up. As long as the fish doesnt crash face first into the zeb's the line wont break. |
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Thats really good insight Ralph.
Thanx. |
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Location: Rhinelander | Dennis,
I grew up with the group of anglers you discuss and the guys from FF fishing with my Dad, Jim Cairnes, and Buel Coley. My Dad designed the first standup jig on our kitchen table in Wauconda, Il back in the very early 60's, and designed another rig in the early 60's made from a piece of copper tube filled with lead and a wire loop poured into the end. That, I guarantee, was one of the very first slip sinker rigs ever made. He used it with a Squirm'N Jig tail or live bait, catching lots of big bass and walleyes all over the country on that rig.
I'm lucky to have lived most of my life around the fishing industry, and now am an 'old guy', I guess!
Thanks for all the line answers, guys.
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