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| Message Subject: Sponsoring of tours.....not just a walleye tour problem | |||
jerry |
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Member Posts: 2567 Location: Manitowoc, WI | I found this article while cruising another website. I find it interesting that even the well established bass tour would be going through the same problems we face in our relatively new walleye tours. Some of the things mentioned in this article, from a walleye tournament angler's perspective, are far fetched and borderline dreamland. Others are, in my opinion, precursers to our future and things we should be thinking about now. 11/17/05 Anglers Still The Largest Sponsor Of Tours-While big strides are being made, it seems that anglers are still the largest sponsors of all three major tours at this point. On the BASS Elite Tour, based on a 100 angler field, the angler's entry fees make up $5.5 million dollars of the billed $11 million dollar field, and that number will likely swell as soon as the co-angler entry fees are announced for the Elite Series, making the angler investment, clearly more than 50% of the pay back amount. The FLW Walmart Tour is listed as a $7.6 million dollar field of which 200 pro anglers and 200 co-anglers pay entry fees which total approximately $4.08 million dollars of the payback amount. The new FLW Series, billed as a $6.5 million dollar tour sees pro angler and co-angler fees total some $3.4 million dollars, again, more than half of the pay back money is coming out of the pockets of anglers. What does this all mean? Well, while the sport is progressing, a vigilance still needs to be in place, that's what I do. It also means that since anglers still pay more than half of the prize package, they are in a sense, the tour's biggest sponsors. It also means that any company that sponsors and angler, on any of the tours has a stake, be it a small one, as to how it will receive dividends from it's sponsoring of the angler. The small companies that sponsor the anglers, then, are in reality, sponsors of the tours, and should be allowed their platform, via their anglers. The anglers must have an avenue to self promote, if they are to legitimize themselves, and to have any chance at sponsor dollars in the future. In the end, progress yes, but only a patch for a problem that needs a full time solution. Sure it may appear that anglers are signing up for these three tours, but be careful how you interpret what the anglers really feel. Do not consider angler signups as "ringing endorsements," for the various tours. Instead consider what they are. They are professional fishermen. Fishermen need tournaments to secure sponsors, for the time being, this is what we have. How will we know when we have made the big time? The day that no entry fee tournaments become the norm. The day when a group of anglers are paid an appearance fee for participating in a tournament. And finally, the day when an unbiased group, such as the PAA, (so they are biased towards anglers, that is not bad!) puts on it's own tour. | ||
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| T-Mac |
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| Good post, Jer. .........A reality check. | |||
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| Sunshine |
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Member Posts: 2393 Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Jerry, Thanks for sharing. It is an interesting read, especially since many in the walleye world continue to compare ourselves to the bass organizations. It’s somewhat comforting to know that we are not that far behind them. But it is obviously distressing to see that they are having the same problems while being involved for a longer period of time. The bottom line involves the fact that tournament promoters offer tournaments to make money for themselves. There is nothing wrong with this, being an entrepreneur involves risks and hopefully profits. The model that we currently use involves procuring funds from anglers to make up the bulk of the profits and payouts. This is a simple fact. The model that we as tournament anglers hope develops involves having funds coming from other sources instead of the angler. The first tournament organization that figures out how to do this will be the winners and the leaders in the industry. Obviously, if there was an easy solution it would be occurring already. It appears that they need our help in coming up with ideas. We are the major stakeholders and therefore need to be part of the solution. Organizations like NPAA can help also, but in reality that means that the burden is back to the anglers. So, what suggestions can we give them? That’s the million dollar question. Right now our fraternity is full of mistrust, anxiety and discontent. Few in our own ranks are being proactive at this point and giving valid solutions. Probably because there is no easy answer. The PWT is still using an old business model by pursuing or having participants pursuing sponsorships. Their only “new” twist is going outside the rank and file of the fishing industry. I’m not smart enough to know if this will be successful but my gut feeling is that we all need to work outside the box to come up with other ways to procure more funding. We do not have the luxury to have a large enough fan base to charge admission, sell food, beer and luxury boxes or sell stock shares to potential investors. This model seems to work in the major sporting events BUT they still get the majority of their revenue from TV. That being said, it appears to me that the best solution out there today comes from ESPN. They are creating the interest, the stars and the arena. We’ll see if enough money is generated from commercials to keep them interested in US. What other models are out there that we can use? Quite frankly, personally I do not have a problem paying “some” entry money to play. My limited understanding of other sports tells me that this is okay. Bowling tournaments, billiards tournaments, racing, etc. etc. etc. all have entry fees. The format works to a point. We are all egotistic enough to think that we are good enough to win enough money to make this all worthwhile. We wouldn’t be involved if this were not true. Again, I ask everyone………… What other models are out there that we can use? | ||
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| Johnnie Candle |
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 Member Posts: 120 Location: Devils Lake, ND | Sunshine, I love to use models as well. Golf is a good one for us. The PGA would be the NPAA. The PGA owns the tour the golfers play. They have Majors and not majors. This would be similar to the new Super Pro format the PWT is trying. They have very little entry fees to pay. They have sponsor exemptions, a word that we are first hearing in the walleye world. They do charge admission to see the event and do have the equivalent of luxury boxes. Part of me says you are correct that our crowds or events are not big enough to charge admission and sell food, part of me disagrees. I don't like the admission part, but I for one have seen a ton of food and beverage sold at PWT events over the years and wonder why we don't have it available at every event. The bottom line is we can become more like golf. I watch golf on tv, not often, but enough. I do not own a set of clubs. I do play about one round every two years. I enjoy watching guys like Tiger Woods excel at his craft. I enjoy watching John Daly try to stay sober enough to get back on track. I enjoy watching a guy screw up and then make a great shot out of the bunker. The reason I enjoy all of this, is because that is exactly how it is presented. The announcers make no bones about it when Tiger screws up his approach or when John Daly is back in rehab. Has any Walleye Tournament magazine or TV show ever pointed out that Sunshine was in First place on day one then 22nd on day two but if he makes the right adjustments he can finish in the top 10 with no problems? Do they talk about the fact that several guys go through hell just to be there wether financially or emotionally? I feel as an observer I never get to see the drama unfold when I watch an event on tv. I get to see the top three anglers each day. Even the PWT wrap up in the Walleye In-Sider shows the top 5 only. Pat of this is because our events are hard to capture in a manner that makes tehm easy to watch. A golf course is confined, easy to film. Technology will eventually make it possible to film fishing in a more exciting manner. We are already seeing some of this on the FLW shows. Perhaps it is time for someone like Johnnie Candle to step aside from the fishing and do the little things. The problem that I fear is, everyone says it is what they want until the get it. Then they want something else. Case in point, the Super PRos wanted and elevated platform. They got it. Now they want the entry fees lowered. I would love a tv show that gets to the heart of the matter. That follows the race for the top 5 spots from the PWT opens next year to advance t the Super Pros. That will be intense. Careeres will be riding on the places of finish at only 4 events. The FLW Championship will be a good one too. 50 anglers in a true year end championship that traditionally pays more than any other walleye event in the land. Not to mention the Super Pros. How many guys will mortgage their house to try for their possibly only shot ever at the big time? I haven't even touched on the MWC, FLW League, or the GNWC. All of this could be played out in front of us so we know what is going on. A show similar to Classic Patterns on Fox would be another good one to have. A different pro or two each week on a different lake, teaching how to fish. What an opportunity for anglers to show case themselves. I only wish I had the funding to create these avenues for my peers. Bottom line is this, we can't expect the PWT, FLW, MWC, or anyone else to do it for us. I have never taken the sit back and wait approach to anything. For some reason I find myself wanting to do that with professional fishing. NO MORE!!! The opportunities are there for promotion and success. They may not be real easy to see or real easy to get to, but they are there. They may not be as big and exciting as what I have mentioned above, but they are there. And there are enough for all of us to get in on,if we want to. I hope I can stay a part of things long enough to see it all work for everybody. Another month of the mess we are in right now and I don't know what to think. | ||
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| Mark Komo |
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Member Posts: 1195 Location: Orland Park, IL | Not sure whether I can add any value to this thread but here goes. There are two types of walleye feesherman. The Pro's and the Wannabees. But see thats good. Golf, the earlier model mentioned, transitioned to a crossover audience quickly. The whole tiger woods, inner city, golfing example comes to mind. Bring to the masses. Now they figured out that to get good at golf, you need good equipment (like fishing), time on course (or TOW), and expert instruction. Very few folks will make the leap to handicaps, let alone breaking a 100 (less then 10% of golfers break 100). Fishing requires a lot, but skills wise (or as we say skeelz), do you need the that type of coordination. Nope. Location + Structure + Luck usually puts you on fish. Ok, take it a step further. Break the whole Pro vs Wannabee. When does a casual fisherman make the transition to a monthly warrior to a weekend warrior to a wannabee to a small circuit pro to a circuit pro to the big time. Find out the strata you want to attack, and get some exposure in that area. So, target the wannabees. Or target the Weekend Warrior. See, I think thats what FLW is trying to do. You not gonna see any great leaps and bounds, but I bet in 5 years, maybe, just maybe, some ROI. Or what about that poker model. Clearly TV brought that model to the forefront from a relatively obscure, seedy, drunken background. Hope there is some sense. I am a weekend warrior. PS Fishing Wolf next week. How about a tip? | ||
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| Johnnie Candle |
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Member Posts: 120 Location: Devils Lake, ND | This may or not be far fetched. Just hang in there with me for a few moments. We will use a combination of golf and the BASS for models. First the PGA. They (golfers) own the tour. Guys with cards do not always golf a bunch and do not always finish real high, but they make a living as local pros at country clubs and the like. The get a good hometown following and every now and then one of them makes it big. Why can't the NPAA own their own tour and the top 100 pros be the same as card carrying mebmers of the PGA. These guys could be resident pros at places like Scheels, Cabelas, Bass Pro, Dicks, or even the local shope like Tew's and etc. Now being a member of the NPAA really means something. If you aren't the greatest fisherman on tour, you may still posses skills that guys at home would want. The shops would rent you out, so to speak for lessons on the water and you would be in the store to help with purchase deciscions. What a great way to push sponsor products and increase sales not only for sponsors, but for the shop itself. Now we bring in the BASS, forgetting the recent turmoil over the Federation. Let's say the PWT sanctions all of the Walleye/Fishing clubs in the walleye belt. Each member would pay $15 to $20 to the NPAA to be part of our new Federation. These clubs could have a mini circuit or one tournament each year and send two guys to the State Championship, then two guys from each state to the National, then two guys get to fish the NPAA national championship. Now anyone can have a chance to be a super star. Again, look at the grass roots promotion this provides. How many of these guys are out there buying product and watching what the pros are doing so they can get good enough to play at their level. It has worked for BASS for a lot of years. How many members could we get at the Club level for $15 per head? If we got 10,000 that would be $150,000 for the NPAA to run its tournaments on or add to the purse, or use for promotion. This doesn't even count the money that the anglers would pay or tour sponsors. I know these ideas are very rough and not the most well thought out, but think about it. An angler owned tour, from the bottom to the top. A board of anglers making deciscions that put the angler first all the time. Not a magazine company, not a TV company, fishermen planning for fishermen. Call me crazy, but I think it could work. | ||
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| Joel "Doc" Kunz |
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| I always knew you paid attention when talking with old people. LOL I've been singing that song for a couple of years. Hopefully someone is listening. The chance to for a young angler to grow and learn from those at the top with their "card" and earn one and then compete in a true NATIONAL ORGANIZATION is what it (walleye tournament fishing) really needs. IMHO | |||
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| Dale |
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Member Posts: 874 Location: Neenah, WI | Sometimes the obvious has to hit you in the head for you to see it!!!!!!!!!!! Mr. Candle has done just that. The way to control your own destiny is to grab it by the throat rather than have others plotting the course for you. I would like to see the NPAA grab this idea. Sounds like a plan to me. | ||
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| jerry |
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Member Posts: 2567 Location: Manitowoc, WI | There's one question that is begging to be asked......is this what the established pros want? Because if it isn't what they want it will not happen. The last thing they want is for someone who has little time in the sport and is a relatively unknown fisherman to come in and kick their arse. It's my feeling that by making this more affordable that this scenario could happen. Hey, I'm all for it. But I don't think the guys who have committed years of time and thousands of dollars to build a reputation would be for it. And to be honest, I don't blame them. On the other hand, I would be happy to be a part of making something like this happen. It would breathe new life and new opportunity into our sport. | ||
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| Joel "Doc" Kunz |
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| Jerry, I think a guy like Kieth Kavacjez wanys to be the best of the best in all facets, not sure if good ol boy cuircut is what the "established" pro really wants. A top PWT platform needed to be established and has been. I agee with your enthusiasm for a change as I think it could provide places for established and experienced competitors like yourself to be part of a state or regional organization. That could provide sponsor discounts or exemptions to certain tournaments etc etc. If you went beyond that the position would be filled from below. Top rep's would earn the rights through a set of criteria. Some would be competetors some "legislative. Would still need entry fee dollars in all levels and % probably no different then they are to provide a part of the purse but there would be room for the good and well organized promoters in each area to provide the backbone of the events. From club events to State Opens to regional events and national events, all of the pieces already exist but they're eatin like dogs not like lions. Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 11/23/2005 2:13 PM | |||
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| k houtman |
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| I think the challenge is that it is just really hard to make any money at this. Even as a tournament organizer -- there's little or no profit in it. In the current model, the only revenue you get to "keep" -- that isn't tied to payback and conservation -- is the sponsor revenue. And you have to "do" a lot with that sponsor revenue for your anglers, events and sponsors. So it gets spent. And staffing is expensive. So you need that revenue to run things. In your model of $15 per head for a membership (sounds vaguely familiar) your $150,000 will be gone in a heartbeat as soon as you have to give them something for their membership. A magazine or even mail them something once or twice a year. Paying salaries -- and it takes more than a single person -- and 'poof' -- your bottomline isn't working the way you wanted. I'm all for brainstorming new ideas -- but let me throw one more nugget out there. Risk & Reward. I'm a big one on this regarding tournament strategies. But it is also very real for business. If a business will step up with the up-front money to run things (staff up and pay salaries, print materials, pay postage, pay for web design and servers, purchase tournament trailers, tow-vehicles, signage, stage, scale, computers, etc.) then they are now ready to capture the business demand. I love working with the NPAA (board, staff, members) --- will be speaking at the meeting in Appleton in January and have each of the last three years. We give NPAA a table at our tournament rules meetings to promote/encourage members to join and be active. But will you, as NPAA members fund what it takes to start a tournament circuit? With no guarantees on whether you'll get 30, 75, 150 participants? Will you go in the hole for year 1, year 2....and members will cover it? Through our Angler Advisory Panel, I like to think that the anglers of the MWC have a LOT of say in how the tournament circuit is structured and run. Anglers advise on a lot of issues -- locations -- rules -- expansion -- and I think that's one of the reasons the MWC has continued to see really exciting growth and enthusiasm. It's well thought out -- and well run -- and the anglers like that. I just got off the phone with the PGA TOUR -- I work with them A LOT on our golf business side -- and I can tell you the golfers are not running the PGA TOUR. It is big business -- and big salaries running it as a business. Just my thoughts for today. | |||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | Kristine, Thanks for your input, it's good to see real facts vs the way some people believe it can be run based on "mythical" numbers. See you again this year. | ||
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| hgmeyer |
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Member Posts: 794 Location: Elgin, Illinois | The majority of retail outlets would prefer a "local" guide to a touring pro... Guides produce customers for a store... And, guides produce "visits" because customers know that the guides know where the fish are active locally... Next, I am a walleye guy... I have caught a few Muskie and some bass... But, don't put me on the sales floor and ask me to converse with even a "good amateur" bass guy about techniques and equipment... Unlike golf our sport is very specialized at the pro level... Boats are different for walleye, bass and muskie guys... Next even large box retail outlets with very high volume do not have big margins... Advertising is best spent where you get the most door entries... And, putting prosa on staff would not get more fishing dollars... it would just shift it from the many to the few... We need to generate TV following and that will generate dollars... Nike was not just into sneakers when it pushed Jordan and Woods onto the TV screen... It wanted to sell sweatsuits and balls of all kinds, etc, etc. It is a very symbiotic relationship between sports superstars and advertisers... They each provide the other with something.... We have to look to the marketing pros and then listen to them if we ever want to get out into the sun rather than hanging around the background. The technology exists to make fishing a real time entertainment... If people will watch "wife swap" there ought to be a way to make tournament fishing into a prime time TV event... But, it will take some major changes to accomplish that goal... Right now we call weigh-ins our only live event... everything else is rerun... So, we have to look at it in a fresh light... Like Nascar we can have cameras in every boat... every tournament shpould be a "shoot-out" on the last day... Nobody's weight should be "known" and the "directors" could show some guys boating fish but keep the suspense running... or the TV show could show the top ten guys battling it out for an hour and then the weigh-in results.... The key factor in my mind is to make watching on Tuesday night or whenever an "event". They hold the Survivor votes in secret so you have to watch TV to find out what happened... Same with the Bachelor... Just my thoughts... thinking out of the box... | ||
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