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Posts: 39
Location: kawkawlin, mi | when trolling into river current, how does it effect diving depth?
contributing factors to depth:
1.line diameter
2.speed
3.length of line out
for instance:
if at 100 ft. back a crank bait will dive 20 ft. with 10 lb. line at 2 m.p.h. in a current free area, will it still achieve the same depth trolling into a rivers current or will line drag cause the bait to raise?or will the current make it dive deeper?
im sure the amount of current has allot to do with this as well. IMO, i think the more(faster) current the shallower the bait will run because of line drag.
also, how would boat speed effect the diving depth?
would you troll slower in a river to reduce drag because of the added force of the current? what im saying is, if your trolling a 2 m.p.h. and there is a 2 m.p.h. current there would be a 4 m.p.h. force.
curious on your thoughts. thanks. 
Edited by adam bomb 1/11/2006 3:55 PM
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Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Adam.
I'm guessing you won't find to many if any written conclusions on river currents and their effects on the dive curves of crankbaits. After over 20 years of using just river currents to work plugs for both Steelhead and Salmon from my Drift Boat and sled, I can tell you that working up a reliable dive table for such a thing would be almost impossible. And using differnt line weights would have little bearing on my conclusions. Currents by their very nature, especially in rivers, cannot be accurately estimated or expected to stay constant for long. I used to run Wiggle Warts the most for Steelhead using 10#, and 1/2 ounce Tot's for Kings using 20#. I've run lines as short as 30 Feet out the front of the boat in holes 12 feet or deeper, and they ran almost straight down from the rod tip in swift current. Yet would actually be pushed up as the hole played out at its end by the waters own deflection against the bottom. A rivers hydraulic dynamics are not even close to the way static neutral water acts against trolled crankbaits, and could not be measured with any repeatable accuracy in my view. The best a man can do without a measured added weight and a three way, is let out certain amounts and test it, or find the bottom and reel in a little as it happens. Capt. Dan.
Edited by walleye express 1/12/2006 12:06 PM
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Member
Posts: 794
Location: Elgin, Illinois | You might want to consider an effective river technique... The "3way" rig... crankbait on a 24-60"" leader tied to a "3way
swivel" and a "dropper" with a pencil weight of 1-3oz tied to a lighter leader of 8-16"... with the 3rd swivel on the "3way" tied to the main line...
Edited by hgmeyer 1/11/2006 6:44 PM
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Member
Posts: 39
Location: kawkawlin, mi | thanks guys,
i didnt figure i would get too many responses on this one. i figured that it would vary because of all the different variables in individual rivers..... i havent trolled rivers and was looking for some input. looks like allot of experiimentation.
ive seen the 3-way rig before in the infisherman magazine. it seems like a sure fire way to possition the bait near bottom.
thankyou for your responses, i truely appreciate them. good luck and good fishin! |
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Member
Posts: 625
Location: LaCrosse, WI | Hi Guys,
I fish the Mississippi about 100 times per year and I can tell you this, a lot depends on which way you are trolling. If you are trolling downstream, your bait will dive much deeper. I think this is also a little misleading because the current pushes you causing you to troll much faster. Here's a little info that I can give you.
Up stream in the current of the Miss (average at about 18,000 FPS) I can troll a 5 Shad Rap with 100' of 10# down to 6' at 1.7 mph. I know this because of the lure digging the bottom, but it does not do the same at 7'. This may not be very scientific but it is tried and true. A #7 in the same situation will get me 9'.
Hope this helps |
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Posts: 191
| mite be time to give handlining a try  |
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Member
Posts: 188
Location: Westland, Mich. | as dan and greg said, dive curves are almost useless except in areas where the currents are very subtle and you still have to figure in eddies. one spot i fish in on the detroit river there is a hole that is about 15 ft. deep and then a shelf rises up to about 5 ft. the current makes ripples in the surface just past the shelf. fish are some times suspended in the eddies there, some as high as 5-8 ft. off the bottom. in a spot like that, if you can either anchor or slip the current a three way is very effective. adjusting the dropper puts the bait in front of the fish. you can put floating raps and thundersticks or even spinners on 3-6 ft leaders. in spots where the bottom is smooth and flat i have a mini bottom bouncer with a snap on the bottom to put on different size pencil weights. it's only 4-6 inches up to where i will put on a standard crawler harness or floating lure on a 3 ft leader. that puts you right on the bottom.
good luck |
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| There is no way to figure that on paper. Only experience will help. You have to keep in mind that the current is not constant, nor even or uniform. In rivers one thing that makes it a little easier is you will generally do well fishing close to the bottom. Thus... let it out until it starts banging and adjust from there. You have to watch your engine rpms and your locater carefully when doing this.
All I can tell you is: put the bait in...adjust power to where it is wiggling right..and keep that amount of power.
When you go up stream there will be a lot of lift. You can reduce the lift with a line like Fireline.
When you go down stream the opposite effect will occur and the lure will get far, far deeper than normal...and with less line out.
KEEP the engine rpms the same upstream...or down...and watch the lure every time you put it out...to make sure it is wiggling the action that you want. Sometimes you have to adjust.
Most folks only troll upstream, BTW. But, I have done well both directions at times. |
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| This is why leadcore is so popular and effective on rivers. Give it a try it is the ultimate. |
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Member
Posts: 1382
| GNWC Rookie - 1/12/2006 7:35 AM
Hi Guys,
I fish the Mississippi about 100 times per year and I can tell you this, a lot depends on which way you are trolling. If you are trolling downstream, your bait will dive much deeper. I think this is also a little misleading because the current pushes you causing you to troll much faster. Here's a little info that I can give you.
Up stream in the current of the Miss (average at about 18,000 FPS) I can troll a 5 Shad Rap with 100' of 10# down to 6' at 1.7 mph. I know this because of the lure digging the bottom, but it does not do the same at 7'. This may not be very scientific but it is tried and true. A #7 in the same situation will get me 9'.
Hope this helps
Just to add a slight correction to what GNWC Rookie had to say, I think he means 18,000 cfs (cubic feet per second) discharge at the rollers. Obviously our current speed here is not several miles per second. Trolling with the current can be very effective on the river here, and I'm sure elsewhere. We also use alot of three ways and leadcore to put the size cranks we want to on the bottom. |
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Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | So at 18,000 Feet Per Second, would that be considered "Burning Them" on the Mississippi? |
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Member
Posts: 625
Location: LaCrosse, WI | Hi,
Thanks for that correction, should've explained that better. I agree with what T-Mac said. When on the river, the majority of the walleyes are caught right on the bottom. I usually try line and speed combinations untill I find the bottom then just bring it up a bit. This can be costly as rivers tend to have a ton of snags. But it is what you must do on these systems to find fish.
Don't overlook casting cranks on rivers either. Some of my best summer success comes from casting cranks at wing dams or casting them on sand flats at night. One other thing, don't get too hung up on trolling deep water. I would say over 50% of my crankbait fish come out of 5 feet or less. Current eddies, sloughs, and river bends make up much of these shallows. |
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Member
Posts: 39
Location: kawkawlin, mi | wow,
great info guys. thanks a bunch. |
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