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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | I just want to thank the owners of WF for their indulgence and willingness to allow fishing reports and posts that can include all fishing brand products on their boards. I've recently (again) been chastised on another site for introducing, mentioning and posting pictures of modifiications I made on a brand name product, and practically accused of getting a check in the mail for every time I do so. You'd think after 6 years of answering questions on these boards and helping people out as much as I can, my credibility would have higher marks. If this was a wall street massage board, I'd see their way of thinking. But the mind set of some people that everything is 100% about the money on a fishing board is (IMV) rediculous.
Lets try a little experiment here. Heres what a fishhing report would like if every remote personal and/or commercialy mentioned product item was taken out.
I was met this morning by 4 strangers, at the place where I keep my watercraft in the water. We met there to go fishing. We left this place and headed out into a large Bay that connects to one of the Great Lakes. I was going to troll with the assistance of a large, straight, strong, aluminum pole with two large spools on it, attached to the front of my watercraft. These spools hold some heavy nylon line that connects to these clips, that in-turn connect to these big, plastic, surfboard shaped, floating devices with heavy steel keels. These devices are dropped into the water and run out to the sides of the watercraft. But instead, I decided to use these other square, smaller, plastic molded left and right angled devices, that have plastic flags and attach right to your fishing line themselves. They also run out to the side and away from your watercraft when let out.
I did this so I could run these flat, small, shiny, all metal, chrome plated devices that I attached some mono line to and then tie in 2 hooks one behind the other, then add a nightcrawler to, and run on one side of the watercraft. Then run on the other side, these devices that are plastic, minnow shaped, multi colored and have another piece of flat/angled metal on their front, to make them wiggle and dive under the water. The fish this year really seem to like these.
So we headed out to 23 FOW, shut down both my main engines on my water craft, and then I started this device I own, that is attached to the back of my watercraft, has 2 small pistons and gears, that turns an angled prop that spins clockwise and creates forward propulsion. Another electrical device I own that shows me fish shaped images on a digital display screen was full of them. Then another electrical device I own, that gets signals from circling satellites in space and displays how fast I'm going signaled I was going 2.9 MPH.
I then grabbed the 8 graphite sticks I own, that have another/smaller type of spool on them that holds line made from monofilament, and actually tells you how much monofilament line you are letting out right there on the spools body itself. When I seen that the number on the read-out said 90, I flipped the switch and the line quit going out. We fished for about 4.3 hours and caught some walleyes, freshwater drum and catfish on both of these devices I was using. We then went back to the place where I keep my water craft, and I cleaned the fish that the strangers had caught. They thanked me for taking them out fishing. I'm including a Picture "Negative" of one of the Strangers and his fish. I didn't want to risk showing a full color photo, or one might visibly notice specific brand name products in the pictures background. Hope this report helps you all catch more fish.  
Edited by walleye express 9/2/2006 9:56 AM
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Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | You know, as I was reading this something dawned on me. That is exactly what we had for information when this alll started. However, that would have taken place back in the early to mid 80's. I am not saying it had anything to do with me, BUT, for those guys who were not involved with open water trolling in the mid 80's, you should be grateful we talked about how we were doing it. This got you interested. With out the sharing of info there would be very few fisherman that would be out there catching fish.
Dan, I remember in 1984 when I went into pomerenings(sp) sport shop on the north side of Midland. They were really into steelies and the streams. The open water steelie trolling had just been found 20 miles off ludington and elberta. They were using big boards and I told them I want to use them for walleyes. These guys laughed and you shoulda' seen these guys eyes when we went to breast bay on erie that may and sent boards out. Now, if the guys who were doing this would have kept there mouths shut, look at what we would be missing out on.
Dont take it personal Dan, they know not who they are talking to. |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Great job Dan. That sounds exactly like the fishing reports I get from Denny! Just kiddin Denny! Keep up the good work Dan. I don't even care if you give out coordinates. Hint! Hint! LOL! Have a good weekend. I get to spend my B-Day weekend at work. Hope everyone gets to fish this weekend. Tight lines. Happy Labor Day!
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | stacker - 9/2/2006 11:17 AM
Dan, I remember in 1984 when I went into pomerenings(sp) sport shop on the north side of Midland. They were really into steelies and the streams. The open water steelie trolling had just been found 20 miles off ludington and elberta. They were using big boards and I told them I want to use them for walleyes. These guys laughed and you shoulda' seen these guys eyes when we went to breast bay on erie that may and sent boards out. Now, if the guys who were doing this would have kept there mouths shut, look at what we would be missing out on.
Dont take it personal Dan, they know not who they are talking to.
Stacker.
Ya know, even before 1984 when I was writing articles for the MSSFA about salmon fishing, and then soon after about steelhead's when I bought my Drift Boat, I was excited to be sharing all the new techniques and information that I was learning about that fishery. I wasn't paid for the articles or thought at the time I could remotely benefit from them, but I really didn't care. People liked, learned and benefited from what I shared and that's all the pay I was after. People began to know me on the rivers, say Hello to me at the ramps or if I passed them with clients, while they were wading the streams. We were all gracious for the most part and made room for each other to fish. The last 4 years I guided on the Pere Marquette, I could see the changes in the newer class of guides and fishermen alike. Maybe it was the more crowded surroundings later on, but its different, its changed and I don't know why. And this change, along with the suspicions and mistrust of any free help offered, is a poison that detracts from the sport, keeps many from sharing on these and other boards, and deprives the beginner of any free info he can hope to gain to learn the ropes. 
Edited by walleye express 9/2/2006 6:49 PM
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| < I've recently (again) been chastised on another site for introducing, mentioning and posting pictures of modifiications I made on a brand name product, and practically accused of getting a check in the mail for every time I do so.>
I think this is what people are talking about. http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=7... No offense, but it sounds like a promo to me. Untested lure. No report. Just a promo. I commend WF for letting you tell us all, but it's not tolerated as well on other sites. As for the other walleye site. That was a matter of your reports sounding like an advertisement for your charter. You refused to pay the minimal advertising fee, so you departed. You and Dave make thousands of dollars off your promos and reports. Not everyone wants you to do it at their expense.
Do love your fishing and lure modification reports though!! |
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| I am a believe that bottom line is advertisement for his charter business as well. Lets see 5 sites now he has been taken off for the same reason. Seems he is the only one that can get away with it on NB and WF so far. Time will tell. Guest |
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Posts: 88
Location: Oklahoma | OK....."Guests" and others...Captain Dan and anyone else in my opinion should be free to discuss the lures and techniques that he/she use for their charters. Can you honestly think that every person that names a name brand product on any site is getting compensated for it every time a product is mentioned!? You've got to be kidding. As for me making thousands off of Dans reports, that is really funny too. REALLY! I pay for my advertising for my lures. Dan or anyone else are NOT compensated by me to talk about my products on message boards, nor are they encouraged to do so, for this very reason. Dan is a respected member of my Charter team to use my baits on his boats. If he were using a Reef Runner and catches tons of fish, no fish, or whatever, he posts it. If he uses a Rapala he posts it. If he is using crawler harnesses and night crawlers he talks about it. Give Dan a break, guys. I feel like a creep when I read on these sites that you all would think I am raking in the dough from what someone might say. Better think again about that. Just what do you expect him or any other member to say when he is reporting to others( as a favor) what lures he is using to catch fish, or where he is fishing, or what type of line or rig he is using? Better he share information with you all than behave like some tournament angler who WITHHOLDS information so that others cant enjoy the successes they may be having. I do not see what is wrong with anyone posting something that they see as interesting, and may be of interest to other anglers.
I frequently visit these sites, WF, WC and TNB and others to read about what anglers are using, where they are catching fish and how they use baits (mine or not) to catch fish. I am not using any of these site to garner free advertising. Put yourself in my situation, guys. If I were to talk about my fishing trips in which I primarily use my own products, and told you about the great fish I caught on them, I would not be lying. I would also not be trying to advertise my lures....just telling you what worked for me as a fisherman, and that is all. It really is not fair to judge someone and "ban" them from sharing information that can be useful to others. I personally dont post on any of these sites much because of the fear that most of you would think I am just trying to advertise....so, I am unhappy that I cant even talk with you all without being put in that category. There are many other guys (regular members) that constantly post about their favorite lures, boat brands, rods, lines, and frankly, many of them always talk about the same lures....over and over.....do they get the same treatment that you give Dan? No. All in all, who really gives a hoot anyway? Those of you that trust your friends will believe that they only have your best interestes at heart, and that any information said is meant to be shared as news or information that might help you catch more fish. I too am tired of people telling me that if I pay to advertise on the sites (which this one has not), then I or anyone else can talk about my lures all they want. Why is that? Then suddenly it is OK for Dan or myself to say "FISH WITH DAVE'S>>>FISH WITH DAVE'S....as much as I want? Do you really want to see that? Is that really fair? If I pay for an advertisement, I dont see that as a green light to speak freely about baits just because I paid $$ to talk about them. I should be able to talk about baits because they are doing something for someone, or have the potential to. If Dan thought my lure was neat, then he thought it was neat. He wanted to share it with you. If you dont like what Dan has to say or what I have to say, then send me an e-mail and we can talk about it. Publicly accusing someone of doing something inappropriate is unfair, and should be handled privately. If the sites allow you to place your charter or business name and web address on your identity icon, and if you are a member of the site, you are free to see his charter anyway, or you can see that I own Dave's Lures. Is that a free advertisement??? No, it is just letting you see who I am, and letting you have the opportunity to read more about me and what I do and how what I do may be of some help to you. If the people who set up and run these "public forums" do not want us to post our links and e-mail addys or names, then why do they offer the opportunity to do so? It is sad to me that people cant even talk about things that excite them in the fishing world without getting spit on. Why do you read these posts on these sites, anyway? Are'nt you looking to read posts about who is catching fish, where they are catching them what they are using, and how fast, slow, deep etc they run them??? Why should all of that be a secret? Or are you just looking for someone to pick on and gripe about an humiliate? Sharing information is what the forums are meant to be used for. Go read a tabloid if you want to read trash. These messgae boards have always seemed to be a great place to learn about walleye fishing, and need to stay that way. And, I apologize for the length of this post, it is only meant to be informative, and I felt it necessary. |
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| I agree with most of what you're saying Dave, BUT when you send Dan a bunch of a new, unseen lures and he debuts it, is that on your advertising bill? Some sites and see it as not. A check in the mail? No, but a bunch of lures! If Dan did not promote you lures so much, would he receive what he does? Granted, with your relationship, he'll always be on the list, but he definitely gets the latest and greatest first because you know he'll post and it's free advertising for you. I'm not ragging you, actually commending you, but it is the facts Keep up the good work, but keep Dan under control. That's all we ask! |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Great post Dave,
As you can see, it’s nearly impossible to have an intelligent discussion with anonymous posters. It’s obvious that you spent a lot of time thinking about this subject and then writing your thoughts. After all your efforts, the first reply is another typical “yea but”.
The suggestion that YOU should keep Dan under control is ludicrous. First, there is nothing that needs to be controlled or altered. And secondly, we are all adults, responsible for our own actions.
Here are my suggestions. There is nothing new here. These things have been said over and over again.
If you do not like what I, Dan or anyone else says on this site, don’t continue reading those posts.
It’s obvious that you have a problem with Dan. Why do you continue to frustrate yourself by reading things that you know will irk you? Do yourself and the rest of us a favor by not reading posts that you know will upset you.
If you feel that you must continue reading posts that upset you, try being courteous, respectful and an adult with your replies. People will respond better.
In most situations, if you feel that you can not sign your name to a post, it should be a red flag to you and others. You may be saying things that you are not necessarily proud of.
This site can be funny. Some of you condemn the tournament fishermen because they will not give you any information about locations and techniques. Then someone like Dan comes along who does this gig for a living. He constantly gives information on what, where and how. You rip on him because you do not like how he delivers his info. You feel that he mentions product names too much. How can you have it both ways?
Dan,
You amaze me with your creativity! The lure modifications and creations that you share with us are outstanding and thought provoking. It’s great to see someone like you who continually looks for that edge or slight modification that will put fish in the boat. I also loved your tongue and cheek post on offering neutral and/or bland information in posts. As you and the rest of us can see, we are all damned if we do and damned if we don’t.
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| Guys guys guys.
Maybe you should all learn from this, next time you have your hand out to a sponsor? They would like something in return for you receiving product, or being on a pro-staff. If this is what it takes for Dan to get exposure for one or all of his sponsors, then has an angle figured out on how to provide them with what it's all about. You don't have to read his posts if you don't want to. Dan should be proud of the fact that he gets lures from Daves, he should also show them that he is worth what he gets. EVERYTHING is an Ad, the boat you drive the motor you run and the equipment you use. This is what it takes to get good sponsors and keep them.
Everytime someone asks for help on a rod to buy or a boat, everyone tells them what they run and why thats the one to have. Isn't that an Ad? Lighten up, it's just fishing and most people love to read about it. Why else would you be here? |
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Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Dave, Dennis. Thank you.
Guest2, you forgot that I am fat, bald and have bad feet. |
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| Hey Dan,
There is an old latin saying that fits this situation pretty good.........
illegitimus non carborundimous (spl?)
Roughly translated....never let the bastards get you down!! |
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Location: Rhinelander | Dan,
I agree with Dave Storm and Jack. The modifications he posted were very interesting, as I do that sort of thing alot. Most of the attempts end in a ruined lure, but that's part of the challenge.
I don't really have much concern what 'other sites' allow, that's them and this is WalleyeFIRST. The message boards here are, thankfully, not driven by controversy and that's exactly what we shoot for.
I don't see Dan's reports as anything but a story of a day on the water. I read them all, and enjoy the read.
Dave, don't worry about it, not even a little. You build a cool lure, are part of the fabric of the walleye world, and if you want to introduce a new product that's news as far as I am concerned. You know the drill and have never even come close to being a 'creep'. Same with ANY of your factory team.
As far as spelling and grammar goes, I can't type. As a result my posts are rife with typos, which I try to correct but sometimes miss. That doesn't effect the information conveyed or the intent, so it's not that big a deal.
I'm taking my 1890 and heading to the Moen Chain. We have been tossing Violent Strike spinnerbaits, and have had some decent action. Slamr got a 43 in less that a foot of water in the slop, and I got a 35 in the Frabill. Stac had her first muskie strike and lost it and it WAS a good one, well into the 30# class. Hit a Top Raider. TomyV lost a hawg on a Shallow Dawg Bulldawg. We are moving 6 or 7 a day on Moen, then heading to George in the evening.
There; that's an average report from ANYONE on MuskieFIRST. Most times, that would be supported by pictures, like the ones below. Works for me! I'd like to see ALOT more of that here, and intend to push for that, and hard.
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Location: Chicago IL. | Guest,, What info do you want from a tournament angler. You think we are going to go out and prefish for 10 hrs a day for 3 to 5 days before a tourney,go thru our money and effort so we can post what pattern is working???? Yes I have alot of friends in different parts of the country but they wont be friends for long if I posted our conversations on the fishing in there area.
Dan I have never met you but I enjoy reading on how you like to experament with tweaking systems for trolling. It is something I also do to look for something different that works. |
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| John,
I come to this site to learn about different areas and tips on Walleye fishing. I post a report with details because it helps me in the long run to share information. What I expect from anyone that visits this site is a post once in a while with some general information on where and how you are catching fish. I don't need exact locations, but rather a general report to share perhaps a few tips. I get 10 emails and phone calls the week before a tournament asking for information on what's happening on the Bay of Green Bay and Bago because I am fortunate enough to be able to get out often. I have found that the more I give out, the more information that I get in return.
Just look at Musky First and the type of fishing reports that are posted there. There's a lot more sharing of information on tips and locations and guys help each other out. That is the problem with the Walleye side of this web site. Too many Walleye Tournaments and not enough guys willing to share any information other than a handful of guys who love to fish and don't fish tournaments. Because there is always an upcoming tournament, guys that fish tournaments very rarely give out any information because they feel that would hurt their chances in the tournament.
Look at the reports for the last year and count how many have come from tournament fisherman, it's almost none. That tells the whole story.
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| Guest, Walleyes travel in schools! Musky and Bass are more territorial, Don't look here for info on the bite but rather the info on how to get a bite! Great site
Dan thanks for the ingenious ideas!
Dave, thanks for being a great person and sticking up for your reps
Dennis, nice to see ya back here missed your posts!
Steve, just another reason anon posts should be removed or their IP revealed! (just kidding)
The bite IS hot if your after perch 8"-10" with an occasional 12" is very easy all over the lake in a few short hours! I use fireball jigs and a piece of crawler an occassional Northland standup, floats from Thill. radioactive lead sinkers from trivers, berkley#6 XL, a gloomis with a shimano reel out of a old Lund boat on a shorelander trailer, with a Merc engine a Johnson kicker, Humminbird 737 finders and GPS, Motorola radios pulled by a Chevy Silverado with gas from BP in it.
Come on sponsors SHOW ME THE MONEY~
Jealous or just envyous? Seems to be the root of all evil on message boards
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| Success creates a certain kind of ugliness. Most guys reading your posts will never use your creations and information, while some guys can't wait to give it a try. Unfortunatly, a few are stuck in a groove that has to criticize your successes and innovations. It's not about you personally and there is no way of changing their opinion.
Most of us, at one time or another, would have loved to have a tackle sponser and from what I have read, you have one the best testing grounds around. Disregard the groove, we all enjoy the posts.
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Guest 3 - 9/4/2006 11:18 PM
Success creates a certain kind of ugliness. Most guys reading your posts will never use your creations and information, while some guys can't wait to give it a try. Unfortunatly, a few are stuck in a groove that has to criticize your successes and innovations. It's not about you personally and there is no way of changing their opinion.
Most of us, at one time or another, would have loved to have a tackle sponser and from what I have read, you have one the best testing grounds around. Disregard the groove, we all enjoy the posts.
Well, there it is. And could not have been described or explained better, and by a GUEST no less. And similar to the news that your army of 10,000 strong has been wiped out, it's telling is much easier and safer at the castle by the messenger, versus the general himself.
Edited by walleye express 9/4/2006 11:46 PM
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| Dan, I have thanked you here before and I will again today. Your postings of lures/techniques is only INFORMATION.People must realize that it's not going to work everywhere all the time. I don't care if a world famous angler catches a monster eye on "yakka-yakka" lure because he may have taken photo's of this fish with 6 different lures in it's mouth....Keep the info rollin'!! |
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Location: Westland, Mich. | hey dan:
thanks again for keeping us up to date with an inovation. if we had to wait for years for this to filter down by word of mouth, we would all still be out ther casting erie dieries (opps, my bad another ad) and wondering why the fish wern't bitting. if not for an open forum, i could never have gotten up to speed in a couple fof years after taking 25 out to raise a family. thanks for your willingness to share info. i'm not alone in the belief that you improve the sport. as for the nay sayers, you know the old saying about leading a horse to water. if they had to figure it all out by themselves, well, there'd be more skunk in their lives.
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