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| EYE LUNKER Lets do the math. Lets say worst case 1000 dollars per test times 10 is 10,000 now divide that by 316 comes out to about 31.64. I would spend 50 bucks extra to do this in any tournament I fish in. Why should I pay 350 dollars or anyone else for this matter, to get in a tournament to hear that people had to bend the rules to win? Is that fair to you or me? At least this way maybe you would think twice before you did it.
And befor anyone says I am going off of hear say like I said someone I talked to that placed high in the tourny told me what they did and I was really shocked to here this from this person. I thought more people would get together to keep this honest then all this negativity! |
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Location: Omro,Wi. | OK guys heres my take on the whole situation....and this is my opinion, not based on fact by any means. Do I think there is culling in tournaments, even though it is against the rules.....YES. I am sure it happens all the time, let those who do it live with their conscience and you (Bill) do what you feel is right. I've heard people even use cell phones during them (Hard to believe) but it might be true. Why not be happy with what you did and the way you caught fish and be proud of following the rules and knowing you did the right thing, the right way, and enjoy the sport and opportunity. This must be your first step into the tournament scene and you have to be aware that not everone plays by the rules in life. There is no need to drone on day after day without proof it happened, and if you have proof then file the protest and be done with it. Life is just not fair or walleyes would bite all the time....... |
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| After looking back on this weekend's Otter Street tournament I was a bit suprised that I was the 3rd boat that weighed in at 1:00pm on Sunday. The bite was so good and with the numbers of big fish that were being caught I would have bet that at least 50 boats would have already weighed in. I think Otter Street made a mistake on the rule of 7 fish in the livewell. This put way too much pressure on a bunch of teams that may only fish 1 or 2 tournaments per year. Maybe next year they will go back to the 10 fish limit to reduce the culling problem.
Thanks,
Jimmy Hughes |
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Posts: 2567
Location: Manitowoc, WI | Let's talk for a minute about lie detector tests and their reliability.
Bill.....have you ever taken a lie detector test? I've taken them many times, as being involved in nuclear power and in order to go from nuclear site to site as a contractor, it was required. I've lost count but I estimate I've taken around 20. I've failed 3.....and I can guarantee that my answers were the truth and that they didn't differ from the answer I gave in the past when I passed or in the future when I passed. That is the unreliability of a lie detector test.
When the day comes that it becomes a requirement to pass a lie detector in order to collect prize money, that will be my last day as a tournament walleye fisherman.
It's unfortunate that we live in a time when we can't just trust the competitors to do the right thing. But, to tell you the truth, I'd just as soon not know as what others might have done. I compete on an even playing field and I do things the right way.....I'll leave it up to you Bill and the others to do the same. |
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| I've been rather quiet on this issue and will keep my statement limited as many of you know my position!
Jimmy, Why would 10 make it any different than 7? Wouldn't it be better to weigh 3 and have 5 in the live? You have every right to question why you were only the third to come in early and that simple thing justifies Bill's questions and concerns.
For years many of you know I have been discussing the culling question mainly because of tournaments, BUT the Bass guys elevated the issue within the state and brought it to light to the Walleye community in recent years.
CULLING EXISTS IN TEAM FORMATS! I don't need to say any more, I know many of you agree, and I will agree that Bill's comments about culling are most likely legit (not necessarily the who). I used to fish a few of those "team" events years ago and know for a fact that many of those top finishers culled (often hearing of it years after from the horses mouth, maybe because I have been so vocal on the topic). Steve you can call it hearsay if you wish but I will go on record and state it as fact and even take one of Jerry's lie detector tests if necessary (which would not stop the problem by the way)!
This is probably the sole reason why I do NOT participate at this level. Now maybe just by discussing it here or on internet websites we are making headway into informing the general public and tournamnet participants that we will not stand for it. Personally I don't have the answer and am not against culling if the resource can handle it. If we are allowed to continue sportfishing in warm weather months in WI we need to be proactive and do the right thing to minimize mortality. Tournamnet directors need to take a stand and better inform their participants of the Laws here in WI and stress that this type of behavior will not be tolerated just so you can brag to your buddies that you kicked their but in a competative event!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| why not test all contestants. just becuase you dont place in the money doesnt mean you didnt cheat in some way. Cheaters are loser in the long run and eventually it will catch up with them. |
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| I have to stay anonymous. Sorry guys. I have this to say you may or may not know that another Winnebago tournament that requires teams to take a polygraph test will catch you even if you don’t cheat in their tournament. They ask 3 hours worth of questions, one in particular. "Have you ever cheated in any fishing tournament?" If that alone is not enough to keep one honest I don’t know what will. Otter st. does require a polygraph test at the discretion of the director. We all know what happened to someone a few years ago in FDL.
Ann Landers doesnt post any name and my wife thinks se's credible |
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Member
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Bill you singled out a team with a nice weight. If you don't have first hand knowledge that that team cheated, you ARE out of line. Period.
If up would have kept to your first statement, basically saying that you find it unlikely that so many teams could have weighed that much without culling, I don't think you would be getting this much flack. I don't think that any of us here are so naive to think that some people don't follow the rules 100% of the time, tournament or not.
My advice? Fish more, worry less. You can't control what others do, so don't bother getting upset by it. If you do come across someone that you KNOW is breaking the rules, confront them or turn them in to the tournament director.
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| Seems to me that no matter what any one's opinions may be, it isn't going to change a thing. Like I said in a previous post, I did fish the tournament and I did well. That doesn't mean I cheated though. I am not sure what others did to get to the weights that they came to the scale with nor do I want to speculate. Many of the people that fish these tourneys are honest people whom I trust. I can't speak for everyone's actions unfortunately. I would agree with Jimmy Hughes though that 10 fish in the livewell seems to be a better option than the 7. The reason for me agreeing is that it does give a guy more options while fishing the tournament. You don't have to be extremely critical in the fish you put into the livewell this way as we all know that fish "quality" may not be the same from one day to the next! Only time will tell what changes will be made but I don't believe giving everyone a polygraph is the answer. |
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| Tyeee i hope you have the same passion for the non tournament guys taking 2 bag limits a day and culling. Hate to break the news to you but alot more guys cheat the limit every day than tourny guys so since you jumped in here i also felt compelled to comment on your post.Bottom line is you will never get rid of cheaters in tourny's and yes some guys will do it and my opinion most guys dont. Personally when i realized there is cheating going on it was really almost enough to make me quite tournys but my thoughts now are i cant change them or the system so i just make sure i never cross the line and keep it honest for my self and some day I'll know when the big wins comes it was fair and square. |
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Location: Southwest shore Bago | What was the subject that was being attacked? Otter St. Tourney or was it the way this site handled inappropriate postings?
I’ll ask, doesn’t the chance that a polygraph test would show who has cheated deter teams from cheating? It would ruin a person’s reputation and credibility for the rest of there life. I know of teams that have had a days catch thrown out for various reasons and they never recovered respect from their peers. Some have come very close to having to close their business down do to fishing in tournaments and having an “issue” This has been a great site with very little bashing. Let’s calm down a bit and chill for a day.
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Location: Rhinelander | My position is and will be:
1) If one is fishing an event and finds proof that a team has cheated it is clearly one's responsibility to file a protest or at the very least talk to the tournament Director. I don't personally know the facts about any cheating in any of the Bago events; so if you do and want to post it here you had better sign in and state facts you are willing to air up front and personal in public with the accused knowing exactly who you are and what your accusations might be. And, one probably should run it by the WalleyeFIRST admin in advance so interviews can be arranged with all parties. That clear enough, Tyee?
2) No culling means no culling. Want to cure this? Make it a Pro/Am format. Never know when your Co Angler will turn you in.
3) I believe the Otter Street event says they may use a Polygraph. That's good enough for me, and for most others. Mandatory polygraphs of the top ten IMHO is excessive.
4) If you think this is never going to change, don't fish team events. Especially this event if this is the one bothering you. You have the power to not hand over your personal check, it's up to you.
5) I think the otter Street people have done a fantastic job with this event over the years. Just my opinion, but what they give back is tremendous, and that is also an important issue here.
6) No one is totally anonymous here, and there is no guarantee one ever will be. Admin can see your IP and easily track it, so PLEASE make sure we never have to go through that. Please adopt and accept our policies of fair debate and reasonable behavior. If one doesn't think it should be said with all knowing who one is, don't say it.
What are YOUR suggestions to limit or deter culling?
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| There is only one way, and it is not perfect either, but it is the best system I can think of: tagging fish. If 7 fish is the limit, each team gets 7 tags, every fish in your livewell must have a tag, which would have to be checked by roaming "police" boats. Short of an observer in every boat (or maybe the top 20 after day 1?), I see no better way to stop culling. It is not a perfect system either, but if you can get rid of the mentality that "everyone else is culling, so I have to just to keep up", you will have come a long way in eliminating the cheating.
Dave S
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Location: Rhinelander | There are 'single use' tags out there, that's a pretty good idea. They are like the tags on a power meter; can't reuse them. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | As was said in another post awhile back, the mwc used to have the tag system and quite frankly I thought it worked well. I watched a guy anchored next to me get 2 fish throwen back when the checking boat decided to stop and look at there fish. 2 tags were not hooked and they were good fish. They simply threw them over. I did laugh quite loudly. I think this would work, it shouldn't have to be done, BUT!!! |
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| Exactly. Clip them off if you want to throw the fish back. I would think that until there is an official protest, and some evidence of cheating that nothing will be changed. The tournament overfills every year, and the tags would just add more cost/headaches for organizers.
Dave S |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | I would like to clarify that it would not just be otter street or walleye fishing in general. It would be a state requirement for all forms of competitive fishing. All one way, or all the other. I have been thinking of starting the practice on our spring tournament here at Fort Fremont. No rumors of cheating, more like chicken soup for the competitive player.
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| Change the law let'em cull Michigan does and it Don't hert there fishery. So what's the differince if I release 5 fish from my boat or the tournamnent gusy let all 5 of my weigh fish go. Sopmetimes this state works a little backwards. My 2 cents worth. |
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| The "Best Way" to eliminate the problem, make culling legal in this state. Then it's no longer an issue. That in my opinioin is the best way.
the tag idea has merit, but as they say in NASCAR, "If you're not cheating, you're not trying". I think of the old metal sturgeon registration tags, I know a couple guys that figured out how to "pull 'em apart" so they could "reuse" them. They still carry them, when sturgeon spearing, to this day. Only because they like to show off what they could do.
Unfortunately some people "pride" themselves on breaking the rules or "what they can get away with". Like Brad said don't worry about it. There isn't much you can do about it, other than fish your best. |
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|  LIE DETECTERS ARE NOT ADMISSIBLE IN COURT FOR A GOOD REASON! |
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| you just need to catch bigger fish than the cheaters, it is very hard to do and that is why a lot of people don't fish team events |
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