|
|
Member
Posts: 1656
| Brian, let me be the first to say you're welcome, I hope you enjoy my dribble  Have a nice day!
Steve,
Could you please define this further? "What was 'amazing' to me is that you said what you did the way you said it. "
I don't understand, I don't think my first post was negative or conspiracy driven, on the other hand I felt your response was construed as that and on the defense.
As for the good ole boys comment. I'll stick to my guns, I'm not implying a conspiracy. But I did say it when it first came out. At which point you did not jump me for that comment...why now? See thread below.....I may be getting older but my mind hasn't gone yet.
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=6...
Speculation...Do you think.... errr....Would you speculate that others, that did fish the PWT, did the fishermen themselves speculate that there were problems, thus the creation of AIM?
I understand your journalistic view point, at the same time I don't believe everything I see on TV also. So why the defensiveness on your part? What's wrong with speculating? What's wrong with wondering? is getting excited about an upcoming tournament wrong too? Cause I know a bunch of guys that get excited about whose fishing and whose gonna win. It would seem to me that this thread has been the liveliest thread on WF in quite sometime. Yet you want to quash that, why? |
|
| |
|
| Steve Worral lsays,
You are speculating, using terms like 'supposedly', , insinuating that some of the AIM Anglers are...well, read your own post above. I think I answered that question based upon what we know about AIM's current readiness to go public with all future plans and details, and I answered clearly and fairly.
You did NOT answer my questions Mr Worrall.
I want to know how Scott Matheson or any other paid tournament director hired by AIM'S board of Directors WHICH INCLUDES GARY PARSONS, KEITH K, SCOTT FAIRBAIRN and BOD CHAIRMAN, PAT NEU, is going to handle a tournament rules violation or any other tournament decision when the AIM's Board of directors are signing a DIRECT paycheck to the THAT paid tournament Director. A tournament director has the ability to cancel a tournament based on weather conditions and I don't know how a fair decision COULD EVER be decided when the Tournament Director in being PAID by these aforementioned guys who are ALSO FISHING the circuit and want the prize money for themselves REAL BAD.
I believe this AIM circuit is being created to to benefit just a very few people. who were without a circuit to fish when the PWT went out. STEVE wake up and see how this is going down.
I also have direct Knowlwdge that Gary and Chase Parsons, Keith K are prohibited from fishing the FLW tournaments while being paid by Bass Pro. Bass Pro will NOT pay them to fish An Irwin Jacobs funded tournament. Bass Pro and Irwin Jacobs are competitors and do not have much use for one another.
Steve, you need to ask harder questions and quit believing this PR drivel stuff as the truth. They are TELLING you what they WHAT YOU TO BELIEVE. JimK is a master at PR and would never tell you anything that would make him look bad even if it was the truth.
Steve, I sincerely think, you need to get tougher with these guys and put their feet to the fire. They are playing you like a bad fiddle and laughing at you behind your back on just how gullible you really are to believe some of this stuff. Without guys like you that could be asking tougher question, they have a free rein to do what they feel like for their own self interests and use money that doesn't belong to them for their own personal benefit.
I also stand by my statement that the BIG Money Sponsors everyone thinks AIM is going to get WILL NOT BE THERE. Anybody with a limited understanding on where the fishing and marine business is currently ,could give you a good reason on why the BIG sponsor dollars for a start-up Walleye circuit just WILL NOT BE THERE.
As Jack Nicholson said in the Movie " A FEW GOOD Men", you can't handle the truth?
I ask you Steve, If the Truth was something that you couldn't believe ,would you still reveal the good, the bad and the UGLY even it meant some of your walleye business buddies wouldn't look so good? In your position you can't be buddies with people you are reporting about and trying to find out real fact or facts contaminated with self interest.
Nobody is right 100% of time and all this Kow-towing you do when somebody in the walleye world comes up with a pie-in-the sky-idea, you need to ask TOUGHER questions to make it look like your not in their hip pocket of people who will believe anything.
When was the last time you were critical of any of the actions of these guys?
I need you to ask AIM how a tournament director paid by them is going to avoid a severe conflict of interest when Keith, Gary , Scott F and Pat are fishing the same tournament?
Is this too much for readers of your board to ask?
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1991
| http://badnewsbob.com/ |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2567
Location: Manitowoc, WI | Bad News Bob,
What is your motivation in all of this? You talk as if you are owed answers. Did you invest in AIM? Did you get an opportunity to invest in AIM? What do you know of AIM other than your own speculation? Do you have any facts or are you just speaking on what your best guess is? |
|
| |
|
| Bad News Bob,
What is your motivation in all of this? You talk as if you are owed answers. Did you invest in AIM? Did you get an opportunity to invest in AIM? What do you know of AIM other than your own speculation? Do you have any facts or are you just speaking on what your best guess is?
My friend, everybody is owed answers and the TRUTH. I believe in letting the light of public scutiny shining brightly to keep everyone honest.
Well, I know many more dirty and unspeakable backroom things that will NOT get revealed to the average walleye and walleye tournament guys than some guy forking out money to fish in a game that is so rigged he can never possibly win. I am just the type of person who likes to see ALL people made aware of the good, the bad and the ugly to make a fair decision. Knowlege is power and I like to share the power and the knowledge with everyone. They know better than to ever ask me to donate because AIM would NEVER past the "business stink test". I work too hard for my money to let somebody use it for their own personal satisfaction.
I can spend my money pretty good myself without anybody's help.
You sound to me like you are looking for the truth? I will do my best to keep the heat on then. I will ask the questions and lets see how they get answered.
I have a feeling Scott is an honorable and honest guy and feels something isn't right but is not eager to step on toes that may come back and kick him.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 344
Location: Manitowoc WI | I cant say you havn't some good points reguarding AIM, but your original discussion on the MWC is a crock |
|
| |
|
| Budsbud66 says,
I cant say you havn't some good points reguarding AIM, but your original discussion on the MWC is a crock.
In what way? Sponsor money is what makes these tournaments go. No sponsor money and signed contracts means late announcing of dates. I could be wrong, but with the business financial world in complete and utter chaos, I'm thinking I'm not far from the truth. Consumer discretionary spending on non necessary goods and services for 2009 is going to dry up tighter than a clay pot in Hades.
One thing is fact though. The MWC WILL never tell you about how much and at what amount it is funded. In the old days a major sponsor paid 25,000. I don't know what it is now but i will guarantee it is higher because now they have fulltime paid staff.
We will wait and see what happens. I will admit it if I'm wrong unlike others. But I got to see the sonsor list and the prize payback amounts. There is no way the MWC is going to immune to cuts in sponsor dollars. HEck, Merc just laid off another 160 people in Fond Du Lac yesterday.
How do you see it going down? What's your view of the financial situation.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | "Well, I know many more dirty and unspeakable backroom things that will NOT get revealed to the average walleye and walleye tournament guys than some guy forking out money to fish in a game that is so rigged he can never possibly win."
I got to tell you, I have not laughed this hard in a while. Keep the blanket over the "average walleye". We got them right where we want them:)
"I am just the type of person who likes to see ALL people made aware of the good, the bad and the ugly to make a fair decision. Knowlege is power and I like to share the power and the knowledge with everyone."
Be honest now, were you wearing your superman pajama's when you typed this?
"They know better than to ever ask me to donate because AIM would NEVER past the "business stink test"."
Lol, being the professional you sound like in this last statement are you sure you are qualified to give anyone a "stink test"?
"Sponsor money is what makes these tournaments go. No sponsor money and signed contracts means late announcing of dates."
This is the only reason your complex mind could come up with for why the schedule has not been announced yet? Am I missing something, did they say it was supposed to be announced already?
"I could be wrong..."
You are:)
"One thing is fact though. The MWC WILL never tell you about how much and at what amount it is funded."
Have we ever known this about any private company in the history of humanity?
"There is no way the MWC is going to immune to cuts in sponsor dollars."
lol, this comes as a huge shock to everyone.
"My friend, everybody is owed answers and the TRUTH."
I really did not want to tell anyone this but I guess it is wrong to keep secrets so here goes. Bob, my hemorhoids are acting up and the itch is UNBEARABLE.
|
|
| |
|
| To Rich s
Be honest now, were you wearing your superman pajama's when you typed this?
"They know better than to ever ask me to donate because AIM would NEVER past the "business stink test"."
Lol, being the professional you sound like in this last statement are you sure you are qualified to give anyone a "stink test"?
Yes sir, I bet you one of those guys that thought Nixon could do no wrong either? I bet you were the kind of guy that thought Enron was a great investment and those "corporate" guys would NEVER screw anybody out of a dime under any circumstance?
Rich, is there any kind of Red Flags anybody could possibly raise in any business situation that would convince you into thinking something may be ROTTEN IN DENMARK?
You are set your thinking and surely not anything I can say is going to change that. I think I will classify your comments as what folks told Noah when he was building his boat.
Thank-you for a complete and well thought out analysis of the situation. I'm sure it really got some posters here thinking about what really could happen?
|
|
| |
|
| stacker - 9/23/2008 12:56 PM
The one nice part about walleye first Brian, is we can have this discussion and keep talking about the subject with out posts being deleted, dusted so when you read the thread it's impossible to understand anyones points. The other part is the same people always come on walleye central and say that you need to call the circuit if you have questions and basically styme anyone from hashing out things that they see ,in there minds eye, as being wrong in the scene today. You are told you are wrong because you do not think like the moderators. What is your handle on walleye central Brian? Remember many of us have been around along time. If you do not enjoy good discussion coupled with good bantering then walleye first may not be your choice of websites. For many, as you can see the post counts, it is. This is the way we roll over here.
If you do not care about a subject, then you do not have to read about it either, but the last thing we need is anyone playing Dad. These are peoples thoughts and anyone sponsoring or running a circuit should be looking for all the input they can about how that circuit is percieved in the public.
Also, you are right, it is none of our business. Of course I dont have to buy there sponsors product either. See how that makes its way around?
Ummm, I missed something I think.
I was'nt condeming Walleye First for anything. I was'nt applauding Walleye Central for anything. The only two points I think I was making was The poster was'nt going to identify himself. And two, whose business is it how much money the tounaments make.
That said, go ahead and post what you want to. You have the freedom to do so. I will post my opinion just as it's my right to do.
Not that it matters, but you asked. I'm Dutchboy on WC among others. Will that get me booted here?  |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | "Yes sir, I bet you one of those guys that thought Nixon could do no wrong either?"
I would have been the smartest embryo in history if that was the case.
"I bet you were the kind of guy that thought Enron was a great investment and those "corporate" guys would NEVER screw anybody out of a dime under any circumstance?"
Nope.
"You are set your thinking and surely not anything I can say is going to change that."
Not true at all. I just think you are going about this all wrong. People like facts and that is one thing you don't have much of. Lets be honest, you obviously have your own agenda here. Trying to protect the innocent is not it. If you have something to say (and I do believe you do) just say it! There are more people on here right now reading this post then I have ever seen. The stage is yours and the microphone is on.
|
|
| |
|
| Uh, dude, I'm pretty certain Worrall was on the original committee (your "back room") that started the MWC (Manufacturers Walleye Council). He's also covered more walleye events that any one single person on the earth. If being a part of the birth of organized competitive walleye fishing doesn't qualify you to comment on walleye tournaments I'm not sure what would be good enough for you.
I'm also sure WF doesn't have a stable of lawyers ready to clean up the mess after printing the innuendo and conjecture you seem to want to read here - thus they just do the interview with the guy running the event - pretty logical move. |
|
| |
|
Location: Rhinelander | Jayman,
Same page, different viewpoint. One's reality is based on one's knowledge and perspective, so mine is temporarily different than yours, perhaps. I have said all that needs to be, from my perspective.
Only trying to keep the facts out there in the mix, best as I can, through all the noise from our friend BNB. |
|
| |
|
| TO Rich S,
Not true at all. I just think you are going about this all wrong. People like facts and that is one thing you don't have much of. Let’s be honest, you obviously have your own agenda here. Trying to protect the innocent is not it. If you have something to say (and I do believe you do) just say it! There are more people on here right now reading this post then I have ever seen. The stage is yours and the microphone is on.
To everyone,
If you are looking for a black and white world with a 100% right or 100% wrong answer, you might need to take another look at your logic. People will never tell you the truth if it makes them look like they are anything less than honest. I was the first to predict when Mercury pulled sponsorship $$$ out of the PWT under another screename, it would cause the PWT to go under. It took a year but when they announced NO championship, the writing was on the wall and I didn't need any facts. The PWT was history and whether you want to believe it or not Jimmy K knew it too. Jimmy knew a PWT without a Championship meant he should start looking for other employment opportunities I have no agenda and I haven't fished a PWT tournament in 14 years but I did start fishing the MWC when Gary Parsons was in a used bass boat running a Furuno paper graph or some other weird gizmo.
The only facts you need to know is the PWT is Gone and I predicted it first on Walleye First. Walleye Centra will delete you faster than the speed of light if you have any opinion or controversial question against anybody in professional walleye circuit.
I want to personally thank Steve Worrall for letting this discussion evolve to what it has become because I will guarantee you Walleye Central would NOT allow any comment on why the PWT went down the tubes nor would they allow any input or comment on how sponsorship dollars are paid or used for ANY REASON.
You guys may not agree with me and I accept that with vigor. All the name calling of me and cat calls will not change my questions nor my attitude. You have your opinions and I have mine. I know how this game works financially in the backroom and most guys here don't including Steve Worrall. I can give you a good "how and why" things happen the way they do. It is ugly and that's why I quit fishing tournaments. The worst in people always comes out when somebody is playing a game for money. If I ever got back in the tournament game (which I won't), I would get me a good attorney and be prepared to use the court system every time I think a rule was interpreted and applied to benefit a "pretty boy" participant. Don't think for one minute other fishermen in the past haven’t used the courts to get a rule "unapplied" to them either. You guys just don't know about it because that stuff is hidden under the rug. Unfortunately, I do know about it.
Steve Worrall is I believe a good and stand up guy who wants to do good for all involved, but he isn't asking the tough questions because he doesn't want to offend people in positions of power. Steve wants to do right but hasn't been around long enough to know how the REAL game is played. I believe I have him thinking in the right direction when I told him you NEVER call a corporate PR guy and expect to get the truth on what topic you ask. A good PR guy's job is to tell you what he wants you to believe and anything that's puts his employer in a bad light is snuffed, understated, discounted, fluffed, SPUN and generally referred to in the "you don't understand" mentality mode.
If anything, if we ask the right questions, Walleye First can get a Good reputation on not censoring hot topics when somebody doesn't quite look like the innocent Saint they tell everyone they appear to be. Trust me guys, there are some pretty good people in this business but there are many more who are less than honest.
I'm proud to say I'm one of the good guys. If I'm wrong I will admit it. If I'm right you better start listenng and thinking about what I said so it won't happen again.
Let's keep asking honest and tough questions and make this website a place where all walleye issues can be discussed openly without a censor button being applied to protect somebody.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | LOUD and clear Bob. You just gave me the answers I was looking for. Your motivation has become quite obvious in your last post. The last thing I will say on this topic is that when it comes to Steve you have no clue. He was around before you and he has lasted much longer then you have in this business. I am sorry this business was not all you thought it was and that it did not work out for you. Please don't assume that the rest of us are clueless just because we still are involved. Please don't be upset because some people know how to play the game and you apparently did not. It is not for everyone but what job is?? You are quick to point out flaws in others but yet you remain nameless. Let me know when you want to go fishing. I would love to spend a day in a boat with you.
I have come up with a theory of my own. Maybe BNB is actually Steve. The number of people looking at WalleyeFirst is through the roof for this time of year. Hmmmmm;) Just teasing! |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 3899
| "I have no agenda and I haven't fished a PWT tournament in 14 years but I did start fishing the MWC when Gary Parsons was in a used bass boat running a Furuno paper graph or some other weird gizmo."
You have no agenda? Really. And you won't reveal who you are? What have YOU got to hide?
You fished the PWT and the MWC. Please tell, how did that work out for you?
|
|
| |
