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| Jump to page : 1 2 3 4 Now viewing page 4 [25 messages per page] Walleye Fishing -> General Discussion -> MWC Schedule is out. |
| Message Subject: MWC Schedule is out. | |||
Fishing Fanatics |
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Member Posts: 52 | So then, the bottom-line here is the entire structure of how tournaments are run and promoted need to be changed so both anglers, tournament orgs and sponsors can all benefit, similarly to the PGA, MLB or NFL.They need to no longer primarily benefit only the tournament orgs running them. The Chris Rock quote is excellent. Now, how do we get those competing in high-level tournament angling to the Rich level and the Tournament orgs to the Wealthy level? | ||
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| Corey Heiser |
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Member Posts: 17 | This is probably going to come off as babble, but I wanted to throw my 2 cents. First off, thanks to the MWC for coming "west". I hope that enough anglers fish the West Division so it'll be around for a long time to come. As someone from North Dakota, we've had too many fly by night organizations come through and leave bad tastes in our mouths. Here's some of my thoughts on professionalism of the sport, etc. Without a true feeder system, ie. college or minors, fishing doesn't leave you with that iconic sense. Here's what I mean.....Take the 60th ranked PGA golfer. I know there's no way I could compete with him in golf, ever. My best friend is a scratch golfer, and in no way could he compete. He wins local tournaments, etc. But he looks up to those guys cause of the immense talent they have and how they've went thru what they have to become professionals. I'm not saying that the Professional Walleye Fisherman don't have immense talent, cause THEY DO. In fact, as a huge tournament fan, some of them leave ME with an iconic feeling. But, there are far too many that aren't qualified. I'm sorry but that's the fact. They may be quality anglers, but they're not far and away better than a good recreational angler. When I watch a BASS tournament, I feel more blown away. Is that because I don't fish bass? Maybe. I hope AIM succeeds. I'm hoping they create a platform for walleye anglers to make money and create a buzz for the anglers fishing them. In my opinion, it's finally in the anglers hands. But as anglers, they need to make the right decisions to not only help themselves, but help the group as a whole. There's been talk of feeder leagues, and I can't wait. I hope they get it to that point. I'm thankfull for the FLW and giving fisherman a platform, but it's the WRONG business model for a full time professional walleye angler. And of course, that's my opinion. And I know there are some doing it through the FLW. I'm not trying to start a blank vs. FLW. Because, once again, the FLW stepped up and gave people a place and platform to fish tournaments. Thanks again to the MWC, and to all....good fishing. | ||
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| Brad B |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Excellent post Corey. I agree with everything you posted. | ||
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| Fishing Fanatics |
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Member Posts: 52 | Corey is right. Without a "minor league" like what the MLB, NHL, PGA and NASCAR have or the college structure that NFL and the NBA can draw from there are no true ways to qualify in walleye fishing. Plunk the dough down and you are in if there are openings. BASS has a qualifying system called the Opens. You can't get to the BASS Elite Series, where Kevin VanDam, Skeet Reese and Rick Clunn compete, unless you qualify through the Opens or retain your qualification by stayin in, I believe, the top 80 spots. The FLW doesn't have a true qualification system in place anywhere. They have a priority status system from their lower level competitions, but you can still plunk your dough down and compete if there are openings and in 2009 if you are willing to fish all of the qualifiers. Edited by Fishing Fanatics 10/30/2008 2:12 PM | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | Top shelf Pros competing against Top shelf Pros. The PWT Super Pro was the first real attempt to get on track with that concept in the Walleye World. It lasted a year. Ask yourself, if you are a fan of any sport...why? What draws you to the sport, why do you watch it on TV, and yell at the screen when things go well or not so well as if the Team can hear you? What makes you diss the fans of other teams, what makes you go the the bar with buddies and watch 'the game'? Why do you wear a hat with the Team logo? How about NASCAR fans? Would you even THINK of wearing a hat that had a Walleye Pro's name and image on the front? Is the MWC a 'Minor League' of sorts? It certainly used to be, at one point, IMHO. Is the FLW League exactly what it's title insinuates? Is the new College Bass circuit FLW is undertaking part of a plan to do some of what's been suggested here? | ||
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| Fishing Fanatics |
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Member Posts: 52 | Steve W., I'd say no to that. The FLW League isn't a minor league since anyone can pay to play in the FLW. The FLW College deal certainly isn't that. It's a college version of their current business model. Cool stuff, but no minor league or traditional college skill development. The MWC isn't a minor league since doing well there doesn't qualify you up the ladder like a true minor league. A testing ground yes, but not a minor league. BASS' Opens are the only trail currently in existence that you have to fish to qualify for their next level, the BASS Elite Series. A true minor league walleye trail that is necessary to fish to move up to the tour level is ideal partnered with a tour level pro series that you need to maintain a top 75, or whatever arbitrary number thats decided, to stay qualified to be in the series. If you don't stay qualified you have a chance to re-qualify in the minor leagues. Not sure the interest is there right now, but boy oh boy it would sure create a high level of credibility. | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | Answer as best as one can the Fan questions and we identify some issues, I'd think. Think current reality, how one proves oneself in this game, and answer that question again. What 'could' be wasn't the question, at least not yet. Think in terms of what the Pros have available to them RIGHT NOW. Your last paragraph hits it dead center IMHO. | ||
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| Fishing Fanatics |
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Member Posts: 52 | I agree Steve. I was speaking of what needs to happen, but its of course theory right now. Except for the BASS tournaments where you do need to qualify to move up the ladder. You are correct regarding the present day reality. Edited by Fishing Fanatics 10/31/2008 8:23 AM | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | Here's the challenge with that theory right now as I see it. There are about 120 Pros across the country willing and able to fish an FLW or AIM Circuit next year, and maybe 6 or 8 willing and able to fish both. There were many FLW League events with fewer than 3/4 a full field, so that 'pool' is not huge either. Let's say one needs to qualify in the top 20 overall in the Minors to 'qualify' to join a Major. If that is the intent of the League or MWC or whatever AIM comes up with in the future, the qualifiers will probably number in the single digits who make the crossover because of: Travel Entry Fees Expenses while there running 45 miles a day, one way, in the rig etc. I spoke to a League angler this week who said he spent about 10K this year fishing the Leagues. Triple that for a shot at the 'Bigs'. So in order to 'break even' covering JUST out of pocket, one needs to cash a check pretty regular. Making the grade in the Minors will not get you into the Majors, because one must foot the entire or at least most of the bill to get there. Right back to the money, backwards from there to sponsors, backwards from there to the Impressions the Sponsors get from the Fans. The focus has been on the Owners for a very long time, and that is changing. That's a good thing! PTW was In Fish. They already HAVE a fan base, subscriptions are sold to them. The focus was: In Fisherman Professional Walleye Trail That's what the trail was for, a promotional vehicle for In Fish, and a darned good one for a number of years. Sure, the Pros got the camera, but the TV shows were aired months later, after the 'Fans' already knew who won. The website was about the leader board, and the PWT. So where, exactly is the aspiring Walleye Tournament Fan to go to get their information, videos, and coverage of the PROS live and right now as they do for every major sport in the world? I asked the question as to why one might be a Fan of a football team. If that team was made up of players who 'qualified' in a minor league on their own dime, and then paid to play in the Majors, played in areas where there are few Fans many times, and aired the TV coverage a month, or even longer after the event, how many of you would be all fired up about THAT? As Dave and others have said, this is already in a state of flux, but arguing over who is a 'qualified Pro' and who isn't at this point is moot--if you fish, and you cash checks alot, you will have fans who are not acquaintances. If you have the fans, market yourself well, and acquire sponsors who you perform for excelling expectations, you will be a 'top gun' qualifier in the minds of the fans. If you fish 'well', excel at your PR game, and have a unique angle on your marketing, you can still make it and not be in the money all the time. Stacker said this is a business for many of the Pros and he hit it dead center, and that-IMHO-is the difference between those who make it and those who do not. If one is good at operating that business and good at catching more walleyes than 75% of the rest of the field, one will cash checks and get attention from the Media, and therefore, the Fans. If either of those components are missing, the angler is destined to be one of Dave's 'hobbyists', a fine thing if that angler is doing what he wants when he wants and can afford to enjoy the experience fishing against those Top Guns. We NEED more and better Media coverage that is high tech and LIVE. We NEED more fans. We NEED a system that supports the very coverage you folks are demanding, that ain't cheap either. We need to develop Fans in their late teens and early twenties, and we need to be delighted they are willing to pay attention and participate, and avoid running them off because we old dust farting originals in the sport think they are whippersnappers. That's a big demographic and has huge buying power, which, by the way, sponsors kinda look for. We NEED to stop the skid in fishing participation at ALL levels, and get folks back on the water and off the Barcolounger. That means dragging in the youth of this country.kicking and screaming all the way if needs be, and the folks who seem to find input from the new, young corps of future pros something to take pot shots at need to push their chairs back and think about it. No young Fans and anglers, and this sport is dead. Get the exposure for the sponsors they are looking for, and they will come, bringing the money with them, for the Pros and the Media. If the sport grows as it might, I'd wear a Tommy Skarlis shirt to the barbecue, hell yes. What this has to do with the original topic, I have no idea. | ||
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| Mr Obvious |
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| Everything you said is true but to generate the fan base (your single most relavent point IMO) you have to win them over with something other than big fish on a stage! You have to eliminate the animosity and jealousy amoungst ALL anglers and you have to have rules that make it a fair chase competition, with unbiased directors willing to stand up for the acquisations of others! None of this has anything to do with the orig. thread. | |||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | What? You lost me there. | ||
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| thumper |
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Member Posts: 744 | I'll throw out my experience as an FLW League angler from 2007 as some fodder. I fished all three WI League tournaments, cashed a check in all three, and won a total of $3,138. I finished in second place overall after the three events, and brought in the most total weight. Subtract the $900 I paid in entry fees, divide the rest by four (I fished the Championship also), and you get $559.50 winnings per tournament, which was breaking even. Honestly, I was happy with my season (aside from bombing at the Championship), but realistically, it would be difficult for me to duplicate those results. Add in using all my vacation days prefishing, time away from the family, and while I thoroughly enjoyed it, it wasn't a sound financial decision to fish it in 2008 (especially with the shedule changes). Like a lot of League guys, I have no sponsors (although I did get a free Drop-n-Stay), so I footed the bill myself. I don't know what the answer is to make it more viable, but I think it starts with the TV shows. That's where you reach the most people by far. I couldn't care less about bass fishing, but I can sit and watch a tournament show. Why? Because they show details (locations, lures, etc.) and they get into the strategy of it all better than the walleye shows. I don't think having "qualified" anglers will make one lick of difference in this sport. That is not the reason bass is bigger and more successful. Edited by thumper 11/3/2008 8:03 AM | ||
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| Viking |
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Member Posts: 1314 Location: Menasha, WI | although I did get a free Drop-n-Stay LOL | ||
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| thumper |
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Member Posts: 744 | Viking - 11/3/2008 9:59 AM although I did get a free Drop-n-Stay LOL The only bad part is in return, I'm contractually obligated to mention Drop-n-Stay in every post or conversation I have now. And if I want a second one, I have to legally change the names of my daughters to Drop and Stay. | ||
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| Steve Fellegy |
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Member Posts: 150 Location: mille lacs, mn. | Mr. Obvious said this: "None of this has anything to do with the orig. thread." He's SO RIGHT! And the Thread has been here with 4 pages of posts for a month. WHY? Because the chatter, banter and whatever is "human interest" type stuff! Not about jig size or line diameter or how a glass boat is better riding than a tin boat. It's in principle, the SAME type/form of coverage you hear 24/7 on SportCenter. It's about the lives of the anglers and the sport behind the scenes--good bad and ugly--it's "human interest" stuff. It's Major League stuff.... Now--if you can take this stuff to the water cooler conversations at work--eventually you automatically grow the sport/ad $$ waaaaay beyond fishermen. "Human Interest"?? Maybe a "soap opera" or a "serial"? AND!! Just maybe, the "lady next door" will become a fan, for the SAME reasons she is an NFL fan and NASCAR fan. Go figure.... Edited by Steve Fellegy 11/3/2008 6:26 PM | ||
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