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| Just some info from Wisconsin DNR biologist Patrick Schmalz
"Somewhat more limited research shows a higher percentage of walleye die following tournaments that require anglers to bring in fish at day’s end for a weigh-in at a central location. In the four studies I reviewed, total mortality of tournament-caught walleyes ranged from 0 to 80 percent, most fish expired before weigh-in, and both higher water temperatures and bad weather resulting in rough water conditions led to higher mortality rates."
From what I understand the mortality rate for walleye after a tournament is quite high. |
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| I will keep this short, this has been beat up before numerous times. I will speak from experience here in wisconsin 90 % of the bigger tournaments are on the Winnebago system and Green Bay. The fisheries are in great shape after all of the tournaments and the so called dead fish after tournaments, these fisheries probably have never been healthier for numerous reasons. Besides please do not high jack a thread that is meant to support FThrottle Tournaments to debate this.
Good Luck Fishing |
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Location: Rhinelander | From zero to 80 percent is a darned wide margin.-
The biological impact of competitive angling is insignificant.
The positives outweigh the negatives from a management point of view.
The negatives from a sociological point of view are primarily water use issues and resistance from those who live on the water or are regular visitors/anglers there. The positives are development of new tackle, boats, motors technologies, and gear through extreme use and innovation driven by the use in competition, considerable regional positive economic impact, and the anglers have a good time. Mostlty.
Of course, there's lots more to it, but this sort of says it simply. |
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| Tournaments are a great way to promote the sport. With that being said my curiosity is peaked on the question of is there a potential for a negative impact on fish populations if you have too many tournaments during the spawning season on a given body of inland water? |
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Location: Elgin, Illinois | The schedule this year is not the hesaviest use of the resource in my memory.
In 2003 I believe you had all but the Full Throttle and the FLW. Instead, you had the WAT and the GNWC, both of which drew more boats than the FLW and the FT, if my memory serves me right.
And, it is my definite opinion that with the Illinois DNR harvesting females with eggs at some of these tournaments, the fishery benefits from the tournaments at this time frame. I've been on stage when my fish were "culled" by the DNR for the egg laden females that went into a big transport tank for "processing" to retrieve the eggs. The DNR folks were ecstatic to get the fish. So, I doubt they will want to restrict the tournaments.
The local businesses (in the whole Utica to Henry area) love the tournaments. There are welcome signs everywhere. The money that is pumped into that economy is greatly appreciated and marketed to the anglers that they are welcome, very welcome!
It is a great example of a resouce being managed to get the best possible result.
Almost everyone is aware of the intensity of the "use", and very few object. And, the great thing is that, as I understand the facts, the resource is healthier than ever in a long term view.
I'd gladly listen to a presentation of facts that the resource cannot sustain this level of use. But, I have never seen or heard anything more substantial than the unsupported claims that the resource cannot sustain this level of use. Thinking it so, does not make it so.
Edited by hgmeyer 1/19/2009 10:44 PM
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| Thanks Steve, there are too many people out there that just do not understand that tourneys do not have a significant impact on the fishery, even more that percieve an opinion as an attack. All we can do is hope that civil discussion and education will show the light to those that continue to bash these events.
Many states including WI have established seasons to protect spawning fish, such as Musky and Bass both are protected until after the spawn and have a huge following. Will they do it for others like Walleye/Carp? Is there data to show that the current model is detrimental? Has the sport of competative Walleye fishing grown to the point that some feel they need the protection? Who knows, maybe/maybe not, but jumping on ones back for stating their opinion is wrong, (no matter how their post is percieved) so for that Denny I appologize. I don't know the Illinois river but I can tell you that the number of events pale in comparison to that of the Wolf here in WI. Sounds like a great event and if the DNR supports it and utilizes them for a sound biological purpose all the more power to them.
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Elgin, Illinois | That quoted "study" has been totally discredited. There were no real scientific principles applied. No one canb repeat the study. No one with any real scientific background will sign on to the protocols as being real science. As such, the study referred to in 125 posts, is meaningless. |
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| After an hour research I found what 125 was referring to. A publication from the DNR June 2006 that looked at both bass and walleye mortality rates after tournaments. Keep in mind I am not saying tournaments have any affect on population in my eyes but...here is a DNR biologist (and the main one that deals with tournament regs. non-the-less) in a DNR publication stating this. With how vigorously many kept saying they trust the educated biologists on the other subject matters on this site....may I ask what is different here?
The bass tournaments are being hammered all over the country with the mortality rate of bass after a tournament and Schmalz's article does not leave them unscathed either. Is it totally justified? Probably not. But again it points out the image problem tournaments need to address.
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Location: Elgin, Illinois | RNT.... If you do not want to take my word for it. Take a reprint of that "study" to any local high school, JR College or whatever, biology teacher. Have them critique the protocols and the entire study. I had it reviewed by a Professor at the University of Minnesota and he was kind, when he said interesting analysis of some events... anecdotal facts and non-scientific conclusions... thats as close as I can recall his trying to be kind.
There are olod threads here that extensively discuss that "report".
BTW, he may be the "main guy".... but if pressed he will (and has) admit that the "study" was not "conclusive".
The internet is full of BS and that "study" is just a part of that same genre of BS.
In the body of that "study" they admit to having bad results from several of their "experiments" (or whatever you want to call them). They had such a problem that in the body of the report they clearly state that they discarded data from some events and could only "guess" some data... It was really laughable.
For some good perspective on the issues you are interested in find the WI DNR reports on the walleye populations in Winnebago. There they list the acceptable range of population numbers. They discuss angler "exploitation". Once you get your head around that information, then analyze the losses of walleyes projected from tournaments and delayed mortality, etc. You will realize that weather and water conditions have a far more significant impact on the resource than tournaments could ever have. Even if half of all fish caught in all tournaments on Winnebago were to die it would not adversely affect the populations except in absolute minimal available population years. And, with analysis of the data, then you realize that there wouldn't be very many fish caught in a population year like that so again the tournaments would/could not have a negative impact of any consequence.
This has been beat to death and politicized to the point that it has become the "big lie" being said enough times that it just has to be true. You arev way too smart to fall for it if you dig a little and look at the stuff you read with a critical eye.
Edited by hgmeyer 1/20/2009 1:48 AM
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| hgmeyer, I didn't say I believed it, was just wondering about some taking the DNR biologists word as gospel on other occasions but not this one. I personally think the anti-tournament frame of mind is getting very old. I deal a lot with the bass clubs and they get hammered relentlessly for no reason. Tournaments have become the heart of the industry and do a lot of good for the overall well-being of the resource. For some reason the farther south you go the less resistance to tournaments there is though. |
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Location: Berlin | My suggestion is for all of you that have not fished there is to come on down and see what it is all about:) The closest comparison I can give is Depere in spring only they are sauger instead of walleyes.
IF I had to chose one tournament location to fish I would take Spring Valley in spring over Winnebago in June. Now if I could just figure out how to win down there:( |
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| I'm too tired to start.
Edited by thumper 1/20/2009 5:54 AM
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Location: Orland Park, IL | Ahh yes, spring valley. Thats gonna be a nice event. I gonna have to see if there is an age limitation for the boy. It would be a fun event. |
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| Rich S - 1/19/2009 5:27 PM
Thanks for your input Mike! Any chance you could let the club members know about this tournament?? I can get you some brochures if you would like to hand out. Let me know
Rich, while I am a member and live in Spring Valley, I am not the person to talk to about promoting an event. You could do a search on the Spring Valley Walleye Club and get in touch with the Executive Director for further promotion.
In fact, you probably already talked to him as the SVWC is currently in charge of the ramp scheduling.
I will support the event in some way, either talking about it with friends or maybe fishing it. But, I will definately be down at the ramp either way to see the results. |
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| Guest, you have obviously never fished the Wolf and Fox Rivers here in WI during the spring. Thousands more anglers here before, during, and after the walleye spawn, than are on the IL River for those tournaments. And these anglers are keeping nearly everything they catch, not C&R like in the tourneys! And that fishery is as healthy as can be. No closed season, no size limit.
I suggest you come up with some factual evidence that the tourneys are hurting the fishery, before you accuse them of it. Give us one fact, just to start with. |
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| Shep - 1/20/2009 8:22 AM
Guest, you have obviously never fished the Wolf and Fox Rivers here in WI during the spring. Thousands more anglers here before, during, and after the walleye spawn, than are on the IL River for those tournaments. And these anglers are keeping nearly everything they catch, not C&R like in the tourneys! And that fishery is as healthy as can be. No closed season, no size limit.
I suggest you come up with some factual evidence that the tourneys are hurting the fishery, before you accuse them of it. Give us one fact, just to start with.
He fails to mention the other worries the locals are having.
1. Asian Carp - They spawn like mad, and outgrow "bait" size in a hurry. Very small window for the fry to be eaten by sauger, white bass...etc. The are most definately competing for bio mass in the river with game fish.
2. Constant water fluctuation - In the past 2 years we have had more than 4 - 100 year flood events, and 1 - 500 year flood events. In a technical term 100 year flood event does not mean 1 every 100 years, it mean that there is a 1 in 100 chance that the flood will reach that level. Our system relies on some flooding, and when we get the right one at the right time....our sauger blow up in a few years, we are seeing that now from the flood that hampered the MWC a few years ago. Prior to that, we had a severe drought for 2 years. Sure, we got some floods, but they were in the summer and fall. Without spring flooding the spawns are IMHO pretty useless as the fry have no chance to avoid the white bass and others.
Our river depends on so many things to be "just right". The month after the bad MWC flood (as we locals call it) I watched the DNR release the fry that were hatched from egg harvest of the MWC event and a IWT special tourny held just for egg harvest. He could have carried the fry in a ziplock that day.
The river, I feel, needs the supplimental stocking. Some argue this point. It's all opinion, right? |
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Location: Berlin | Mark,
As far as I know they do not have an age limit within reason. They HEAVILY promote family in this circuit. My son is only 10 and they have no problme with him fishing it.
Mike,
I will get in touch with the executive director. I would appreciate any word of mouth traffic you can give this event.
Mannerino, you in?? |
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| wow .. our guest is worked up about this... wondering why the tournaments are the issue? but he is on a misson ... its funny how some are so quick to try to find a reason and easy it is to settle on(tournament anglers clubs and the dnr) working togather after years and years and years of possitive results and LOGIC and SCIENCE and Measurable RESULTS and possitive impact...) then come to the conclusion not to investigate more but ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK! sad i guess.. im open minded ya overfishing a body of water can happen.. but when the fish are plentyful people will come! tournament or not if there are good catches to be had folks will come and catch them.. i can be flexible ,,, closing the last half mile to the damm or wherever the majority of fish are stacking up because they are held up by a man made obstruction i can live with... being so quick to take away anglers opportunities to enjoy the day when every other lake and pond is still frozen over... so mr. guest who has his heart in the right place.. thanks for pointing out that we live in a democrocy now! thanks to the minority that can get our constitution changed to a democracy... from the Great peoples republic it was founded on... thanks for going threw all your trouble to push the political bottons to save the helpless sauger from the evil fisherman who find them so easy pickins in water clairity of a half inch... and 40 degree rain... and flying carp! |
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Location: Berlin | Ok all, I have recieved lots of emails wanting info and I will be sending them out tomorrow. Is there anyone else that wants a brochure and registration info mailed to them? I can get you info on any division you would like, just include that in your email. My address is:
[email protected]
Thanks again for your interest. Details of the Spring Valley tournament will be out in a week or so.
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Location: Berlin | Mark Komo - 1/20/2009 8:19 AM
Ahh yes, spring valley. Thats gonna be a nice event. I gonna have to see if there is an age limitation for the boy. It would be a fun event.
Mark,
I just got an email from Chris and he told me to tell you there is no age limit as long as they have parental permission.
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Location: Orland Park, IL | Wow, thats great. may have to double up on the RC and cheetos to keep him happy. We are gonna have to take a serious look at this. |
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| Just posting to have all four of the top forums with me as the last poster. |
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Location: Berlin | Shep - 1/29/2009 9:45 AM
Just posting to have all four of the top forums with me as the last poser.
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