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| I was appaled to wake up to this in the paper this morning not a topic worth discussing too much but when are we going to address the awfull media involvement in this fiasco! CNN and other large media types display this video to counteract the other mistreatments they have been displaying over the past week. I used to work in the media world and find this type of information very disturbing! Although I wouldn't find it surprising to learn one day that this could have been a covert op to downplay the horrific treatment of Iraqi's and abuse that has been played out daily. Either way it's time to set our media giants straight with how and what should be transmitted through the airwaves, everything from horrific mistreatment photos, Videos of Murders and Janet Jacksons......well you know what! Only if a guy could fish 24-7 life would be alot more enjoyable!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Oshkosh | Tyee, I agree with your view on the media getting carried away with things... But I have to take issue with your description of "horrific treatment" of Iraqi prisoners. Please note that I am not dissing you or anything you may believe about the daily goings on in the war on terror. But I, like a lot of the "silent majority" I know are very tired of the anti-American slant the world media (INCLUDING the American media itself) is taking on this. Let me ask all of you this-
Why do we see on a daily basis pictures of prisoner "mistreatment," but never see or hear about the violent deaths of hostages, the daily suicide bombings, Daniel Pearl's beheading, the people jumping from the burning twin towers to escape the deadly inferno, the discoveries of mass graves, the rape rooms, the torture dungeons, etc? Why is it up to the media to decide that we cannot see the 9/11 footage because it is too disturbing? Why does the media get so sanctimonious about the humiliation of some prisoners (with some politicians now calling them "atrocities!") but true attrocities like the violent deaths and dismemberments of 4 Americans in Fallujah are all but a speed bump in the news world?
Remember who we are dealing with here...
Why do we NEVER hear about the good that happens everyday in Iraq (and Afghanistan)- good that FAR outweighs any bad occurances in frequency and significance? Good- like schools and hospitals reopening, businesses thriving, infrastucure improving beyond where it was when Saddam ruled. Why do we never hear about the United Nations Oil For Food scandal- something that is turning out to be the biggest and most far-reaching scandal in world history? Those who are implicated- Russia, France, Germany, and even Kofi Annan himself will do whatever they can to sweep this under the rug, and the media will turn their heads.
I get the feeling that too many people think that these prisoners are innocent Iraqi citizens who are being unfairly treated. Well they may or may not be Iraqi citizens, but they are in that prison, and in that particular cell block (1A or 1B) for a darn good reason, and it isn't for jaywalking. These are murderous insurgent Islamic radical terrorist scum who deserve worse. We are dealing with sub-humans who do not fear death. If they will willingly die to win, but we will not willingly kill to defeat them, then we will ultimately be defeated. I am not one to sit back, gnash my teeth and wail about "why they hate us..." I did nothing to them, nor did millions of Americans. They will just as gladly kill Democrats as well as Republicans, Liberals as well as Conservatives. It doesn't matter to them- we are ALL infidels in their minds.
Remember who we are dealing with here...
If the only way we can get accurate intelligence is by "humiliating them," then I am all for it. The Geneva Convention shouldn't apply here- how are you going to get "name, rank, and serial number" from insurgents who neither wear a uniform of any kind nor belong to a geographically-defined territory? If the unfortunate humiliation of a handfull of prisoners will allow us to prevent the deaths of Allied soldiers, infrastructure workers or Red Cross volunteers, then I say do it. And no matter what our differing opinions are about the reasons for being in Iraq, bear this in mind; we are fighting terrorist groups there. I would much rather take the fight to them than see in America what Israel goes through on a daily basis. I don't care if they are al Qaeda, Hamas, or whatever. They are all dirt, and must be destroyed. May I take this moment to make a distinction between the Islamic world and the Islamic radicals we face as an enemy. These terrorists hide behing a legitimate religion to make false excuses for their actions. By doing this they make it too easy to lump all of them together as a group, when a definitive distinction needs no be made clear.
This issue is being politicised to the fullest extent only because it is an election year. The majority of those who insist on engaging in daily Congressional hearings (or "witchhunts," to be more accurate) truthfully do not care one bit about the wellfare of a couple of enemy prisoners-unless they can get a good soundbite out of it. Ask yourselves this- Will the dismissal of Donald Rumsfeld help our mission in Iraq and Afghanistan, or will it help the Democratic party this November? (Tonight I see Jesse Jackson is getting in on the act- he doesn't believe Rumsfeld should resign... he wants to see him stay on and face a war crimes trial. It is unreal the rhetoric that can be casually spoken.)
Remember who we are dealing with... Man, I've forgot already- is it terrorist insurgents, or the media?
Guys, I apologize for ranting here, and again, I do not take issue with any of you personally. I understand that this is a fishing and hunting information board, and not a place to speak out on matters like this on a regular basis. The last thing I want to see is this subject turn into a political cauldron where people begin to personally attack each other. I strongly feel that it shouldn't come to this, and what we face as a threat goes WAY beyond personal political leanings. I am just sick of 95% of the media downplaying our mission, for all intents and purposes siding with our enemy's agenda, comparing this to Vietnam, etc. If we, as a country just allow our troops to do what it takes to win this conflict (unlike tying the hands of the military in Vietnam) this world will be a FAR better and safer place to live.
Here's to a safe and successful fishing season for each and every one of us out there in the fishing fraternity, with many more to come.
Mark
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| Mark,
Well said |
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| Your post should be featured in the New York Times.. |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Seldom if ever have I ever called on God to harm anybody. But I did today. I cannot put into words the feeling of pure hate I felt for those five %$#@&*^ animals who sawed off the head of a living innocent man. |
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Location: Milw, WI | Don't think it is limited to this time, and place.
If you only new what is covered up locally. |
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| I hardly think CNN and the others showed the execution of Berg to counteract the "abhorrent" treatment of the Iraqi prisoners at Abu Grahib. Did CNN show the complete video, or did they cut out the gruesome execution like ABC, NBC, and CBS. All 4 of those media outlets have a very liberal slant to their reporting of things. Just look at how they have reported the abuse at the prison. They are gonna keep this thing going as long as they can. When put in perspective of the video of Berg, I look at the so-called abuse of the prisoners, and pretty much say, "oh, well". I think the Berg story will soon be forgotten, as more "abuse" photo's and videos are released. They'll keep this going as long as they can, in hopes that it will stick on President Bush and/or Donald Rumsfeld. That is the agenda.
Anyone who believes this execution was retaliatin for the prisoner abuse is fooling themselves. And to all these Senators and Congressmen that are ranting about this terrible treatment of these prisoners are just grandstanding. They should all listen to what Joe Leiberman said recently, and follow his lead. It's one of the few times I have agreed with him, and I applaud what he has said. He's on the right page with his nonpolitical view of this. A few Americans of questionable character went a little too far. OK, get them out of there, and move on. I for one don't really care if these Iraqi prisoners were humiliated. And I'm all for taking extreme measures to "soften" up these SOB's to get information from them that will lead to a quicker end to the war, and save the lives of our troops. Let me take a statement from the libs, and apply it here. "If it only saves one (Americn Soldier's) life, it's worth it". |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Shep.
Put me down for two of everything you just said, and hold the liberal Mustard if you would.
Can there possibly be a human being in this world that doesn't know that every society and culture has it's (let's say) deviate fringe, that enjoys sexual voyerisms in all it's perverse forms. And who believes for one minute that when the boss is away (the higher ranks in this case) that the employees (privates) won't play? And who is so nieve to think that some of these muslims never hated us before this perseved outrage?
I used to wonder why everybody in our country didn't vote. I watched a show the other day where they asked 100 people off the street who the Vice President of the USA was right now. Only 38 people knew. These are the people those 5 sick beheading ^&*%$#@! want to impress and will impress with their perversion. And anybody with a political agenda will jump right on and ride this horse to death, because it's all most of them have right now. Well, heres one nuckle head they won't find waiting in line to eat their BS sandwitch.
Edited by walleye express 5/13/2004 1:39 PM
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| This angers me to no end. I've thought to myself for a long time, and will share with you, that we can not and will not win any battles with these people if we continue to establish "rules" as to how we fight them. The enemy has no rules, fights with no rules, and will not adhere to any rules. How can anyone expect to win when fighting by rules against an opponent that laughes at the ideas of rules, or structure. The only way to defeat them is to fight them by their means. If they make a terrorist attack against us anywhere in the world, we destroy someplace of meaning to their "so called" deep rooted religion. Start with their most valued mosques, and move on to their most valued cities of religious value. Tell them publicly that we will destroy everything that is part of their religion unless they stop. This is not a religious war, nor should it be. You ask, what will this do but start a religious war world wide? No, it will force the muslim world to stop these extremeists from doing these acts of cowardness in the name of Islam. We need to make the muslim world turn against these people and have them actively try to stop them, and bring them to justice. If the muslim world were to witness the U.S.A. become as ruthless as these coward terrorists, there would be some change. Imagine if they knew that if we are attacked in any form anywhere, that we would drop an atomic bomb on the town of Mecca, the hub of all Islam and their religion, and make it impossible for any muslim to ever take the annual pilgrimage to the birthplace of Islam!
I understand my idea is a bit far fetched, and a bit savage for most modern civilization, but something has to be done. Iraq is the birthplace of civilization. According to history, civilization first started in the Tigrus/Euphratys valley and spread world wide from there. Why is it then that these people still live by the same rules today as they did back then? Why has the rest of the world advanced so far and they are still in the same place?
Edited by JLDII 5/13/2004 10:23 AM
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This won't be a popular post.
You have to wonder, are most of the occupants of these regions filled with such hatred? To continue to chant death to America and encourage the most radical of their society to publically behead whom they believe to be the enemy?
People, these feelings have not just appeared to us overnight. They have been started long ago by Britian with the Crusades and carried on by the formation of Isreal. Unfortunately, the vile haters of Islam have brought this war to our soil in the bombing of buildings in New York City, and have dragged us into this mess.
That being written, I still agree that now we must stay and finish this job, with careful pointed strikes at the radical being sure we do not become involved in genocide. We are in, and will not easily come out the winner.
If only our country would have followed the instructions of our very first President and not become involved in entangling alliances. |
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| They are all popular Rick, as we all have our opinions, I myself had to search the net for 3 hours before I was able to find a full video, Please don't ask what possessed me to have to see it but I was infuriated to learn of this atrocisity. Bad pictures bad media coverage and the showing of this video makes me sick! The video was real hard to stomach but it really gave me faith that we are there for the RIGHT reasons. The behavior of these select people needs to be stopped and if their own country men won't turn them in then I honestly believe that the right thing to do is hit em hard without warning then start to leave the country. Then watch them beg for help!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Midland, MI 48642 | Great posts, no since in me saying anything you guys covered it 100%! I say turn the place to glass, get the whole job done we started and be done with it. Get the guys and gals home. Skeeter |
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Location: Oshkosh | I didn't know how that post of mine was going to be received. I was kinda nervous when writing it, and changed my mind several times if I should even send it. But I'm glad I did.
By no means do I expect everyone that views this forum to agree 100% with what we have all stated. I do not have a problem with different opinions or political views, as long as it is what you truly believe, and not what you are spoon fed and made to believe by others who have an agenda to sell. It is possible to have a change of heart- I actually voted for Ross Perot in '92 (I cannot believe I am admitting this) and was more than willing to support Clinton after he was elected. But you start to see things for the way they are, and if you can think for yourself, you quickly figure out what the sum of 2 and 2 is.
Let me finish this by saying that, while I do not personally know most of you, you guys are the absolute greatest!
And even with that, I do not expect you to give up your #1 fishing spot, nor will I!
Mark Ostrowski  |
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Location: Appleton wi | BrotherOtis Well said you are right on! |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Well, the stakes are going up, ready or not. NOW maybe Congress and the Military establishment will allow those special Hunter Teams to do their thing, as they are well trained and qualified to do. WM |
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Ah heck, my number one spot changes every day! |
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