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Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Pulled from another board.
When pulling plugs below dams and heavy current areas how much does current affect the dive curve on any given plug?
Thanks Dave
Dave.
The quick answer. Faster deeper. Slower shallower.
I've had many years of experience in all kinds of river currents doing what Drift Boaters call "Pulling Plugs". That is, while using the oars to hold or slip the boat slightly in the current, and letting the current pull the plugs ahead making them dive and work in the current ahead of the boat. A deadly technique for all types of river game fish. And have a little experience doing what would be called "Trolling Plugs" against the current while under power using an outboard.
Not having made a study of each, but having 22+ years of guiding experience doing both pulling/trolling cranks, I know there is no stead fast (feet out to lure down) rule when it comes to plugs and river current. Unless you fish either a very deep river with consistent current speeds, where your lure will never be near any type or barriers, obstacles or bottom. Or a shallower river that has consistently the same depth and current speed with no obstructions of any kind (top or bottom) in that system.
There are just to many current speed variables in any system with Logs, Rocks, Holes, Corners, Bars, Points, Wing dams (and the list goes on) to consistently supply a constant moving liquid force, to reliably/verifiably figure out how deep any given lure will dive in all systems and current types.
In river systems I fish a lot, I've discovered (in the long run) it's best to keep a mental record of how many feet out any given crank you use is, in any given spot. And at what optimum length that was when you had your best luck. Sounds tough, but success is the best teacher and imprints the longest memories. Capt. Dan. |
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Member
Posts: 625
Location: LaCrosse, WI | Good post Dan,
I know a lot about trolling cranks in current. All my knowledge is learned over the last 27 years fishing the Mississippi River. The one thing I can tell you is that trolling downstream means you're diving deeper and trolling against current will still probably be deeper than the dive curves but not as deep as moving with the current. I can tick a no 5 Shad Rap accross the bottom in 11' of water no problem moving downstream.
The biggest variable in trolling in current is fish preference. I've caught Walleyes that only wanted a no 5 Shad Rap pulled at 125 feet back in only 4 feet of water. In the same spot I've had them hit only if there was only 50 feet out. Both presentations were hitting bottom, and the lure ran the same for the most part. The variable was the distance the lure was from the boat. Sometimes they won't hit until that boat is a good distance away, and sometimes the boat going over doesn't seem to bother them at all.
One other thing to consider when trolling in current is speed. I typically troll cranks faster than most after the water warms up (2-4mph). I think that the current makes the fish have to make quicker decisions as the potential meal will be gone in only a few seconds. Sometimes the reaction bites are ferocious and happen often.
One good way to get a gauge on how the current effects your depth is to find a sand flat. Troll the sand flat in a pre-determined amount of water and keep track of how much line it takes to tick bottom. I have a few places that I use for lure testing just to see what I can expect out of a crank. Gather some data, write it down and place the paper (waterproof preferably) in the crank box.
You can also make your own dive curves in Excel if you gather enough data. Let me know if you'd like to know how. |
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Member
Posts: 3899
| Rook,
Are you saying that your crankbait will run deeper with the current, than against the current?
I'm not too good at pulling cranks in the rivers for eyes. I do ok on muskies, but I have found that I need to go a bit faster with, than against the current to get the right lure action. I assume this holds with trolling for eyes, too?
Also, I'm going to set up a couple rods for pulling fireline in the rivers. What size Fireline do you all use? Is Fireline Crystal going to have any advantage for pulling cranks in a river? |
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Member
Posts: 1382
| 14/6 Fireline
I think what he is trying to say is that you will need much less Fireline to achieve the same depth when pulling downstream vs upstream, assuming there is significant current.
And yes SOG you will be moving much faster pulling with the current. |
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Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Shep - 4/12/2007 12:15 PM
Rook,
Are you saying that your crankbait will run deeper with the current, than against the current?
Not deeper Shep, but yes cranks runs as deep or deeper quicker with less resistence in the down stream current, using less line out to accomplish the same diving depth. Believe it or not, water builds up refective forces that run the same way as the current. These forces roll, bounce and push things away from the bottom (for the most part) when the bottom is flat and featurless. That and the forces pushing up and against your line when trolling against the current, all add to the amount of line one needs to troll against versus trolling with the current. Your line is either neutral or getting pushed down when trolling with the current. In the Hot Water discharge I fish, I have to let out 13 passes on my reel to hit bottom going up against the current and only 6 passes to hit bottom going down. With the speed of the troll slightly faster going with the current to compinsate for the current flow and make the crank work.
Edited by walleye express 4/12/2007 12:14 PM
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Member
Posts: 625
Location: LaCrosse, WI | Shep,
You do have to go a little faster because the current is allready pushing you and the crankbait downstream. Your motor or trolling motor may be barely moving but that little bit faster than the current allows your crank to bite in and dive. I have found that my cranks consistantly dive deeper while trolling downstream. I think that the current at the cranks back will actually help push it down too.
A lot of it may have to do with the extra speed it takes to troll downstream. The cranks don't spin out as much either at the higher speeds going downstream. If you compare apples to apples, trolling 2mph upstream and downstream may be very similar, but if the current is moving downstream at 1.9 mph you just can't troll downstream at 2.0. The other thing I do in that situation is run a three-way with a 3-5 oz sinker and run my crank off of that and just drift with the swift current.
Our current on the Mississippi right now will pull your boat around 3mph or more, so trolling downstream right now is almost impossible. As for line, I only use 10lb XT. I just haven't had the same amount of success with superlines as I have with XT. If I were to use a braided line it would probably be 10/4 fireline or similar sized power pro. That way, you would still be able to use the Precision Trolling Bible.
As Dan said, it may not always be "deeper" but it certainly takes less line to get there going downstream. I do however notice that I can stretch an extra foot or two of depth out of a downstream troll
Edited by GNWC Rookie 4/12/2007 11:59 AM
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Member
Posts: 3899
| OK, I understand. Less line to get the same depth going downstream.
Also, I knew you have to go SOG faster when going downstream. Same as when trolling muskies in the rivers.
The idea of the current actually pushing on the lure, and the line to force the lure down is one I hadn't thought of. Cool beans.
Thanks, guys.
Edited by Shep 4/12/2007 1:17 PM
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