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Location: Oshkosh | Just was wondering what all of your thoughts are on the "re-configuration" of the Pioneer Inn in Oshkosh. I am kinda involved in the project, and now that they have torn down the old hotel, the DNR has halted the project for whatever reason. Just curious....
Mark |
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Location: Rhinelander | Appears that the permits needed were not all in order, hopefully they can get this thing done somehow or the area loses. |
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| Will they be open for the season? Are they still going to be a resort?
I enjoyed staying there in the past.
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | My understanding is that they are going the condo route.
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| Is there anything comparable to what the Pioneer Inn offered in the Oshkosh area?
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio |
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Location: Neenah Wi | I heard that some of the land is on a public lease of some sort.As some of the land was filled in lake or river bottom.And it is to remain open to the public.Kind of hard to sell a condo if it will be open for public use.Looks like someone tried to pull a fast one. |
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| The land that the footings are on is not all privately owned. Some of the footings are sitting on filled in lake bottom so there for the state owns it and is to remain public. The reason the hotel got away with it is because the public could stay at the hotel anytime they wanted. What will probably end up happening is that they will build the hotel part over the state owned footings and the condos over the mainland which is privately owned. That is only what I have heard from a source involved with building them. It is not for sure what is going to happen yet. politics.....
Troy |
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Location: Rhinelander | I also heard the about Condo portion back a few months ago, makes sense! |
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Location: Menasha, WI | February 1, 2005
Pioneer halted by DNR, Condos restrict access to property
Jeff Bollier, of The Oshkosh Northwestern
A dispute between the owners of the Pioneer Resort and Marina and the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources has halted renovation of the lakeside resort and, community officials fear, could wind up in court.
The issue centers on plans to renovate the Pioneer into a mix of condominiums and hotel rooms on the resort's original footprint -- a change the DNR argues would violate the limited uses allowed on the site.
The 40-year-old hotel was partially built on filled lakebed, which by law is owned by the state, and was leased to the original Pioneer developers under agreements executed in 1964 and 1969.
Building privately-owned condominiums on the site of the now demolished hotel could violate state law requiring public access to the property, DNR Regional Water Program Expert Kristy Rogers said.
DNR officials hope to convince Pioneer owner Decade Properties to build around the lakebed area to avoid violating the original leases, Rogers said.
"The state was able to go into this agreement because when it was a hotel, the usage was quasi-public," Rogers said. "But they're changing its use so that it's condominiums under private ownership."
Rogers said Decade officials thus far have argued that their redevelopment plan does not change the use of the property.
Decade Properties Vice President of Hotel Operations Charlie Sullivan said the Waukesha-based company is confident an agreement can be reached with the DNR to allow the $20 million development to be built.
"We feel we're going to get it resolved real soon and at that point, we will go forward," Sullivan said.
If not, local officials worry, the issue could well end up in court.
State Sen. Carol Roessler, R-Oshkosh, has considered asking Gov. Jim Doyle's office to intervene and help arrive at a solution that avoids possible lawsuits that would impede development even longer.
"If this continues, there will undoubtedly be a court case. Already, this is costing development time and time is money," Roessler said.
The Nov. 19, 1964 lease between the state commissioner of public lands and the Chicago and Northwestern Railway Company lays out permission to use a portion of the lakebed for construction of the original Pioneer Resort and harbor. The lease also requires the property user to comply with any and all laws, rules and regulations regarding use of the land, which is where the DNR's concerns regarding privately-owned condominium construction come into play.
"We're working with them to encourage them to build the structure so it's not on the lakebed anymore, so they build it on the Pioneer property itself," Rogers said. "We have a few situations when the state enters into lakebed grants like this and it's for a public purpose. We don't have anything in our statutes to cover (private use or ownership)."
The leases were passed down to Pioneer Development Corporation on May 15, 1978.
Dallas-based Oly/Montclair Wisconsin Hotels LLC agreed to abide by the lease agreement when it purchased the Pioneer from the Bergstrom Corporation, the parent corporation of Pioneer Development, on Jan. 9, 1998, according to documents on file in the Winnebago County Register of Deeds office.
The lease agreement approved the use, construction and operation of the resort and marina in exchange for $5,000 in 1964 and $2,500 in 1969.
Roessler said the lakebed situation should have been specifically noted in the property deed when Decade Properties acquired the Pioneer in May 2002.
"In this instance, at the time of purchase, there was no notice in the deed that this was a problem," she said. "There was no indication with the record of deed that there was any constraint that would be put on a new owner not to be able to build on that footprint."
However, the deed filed when Decade Properties finalized its purchase of the Pioneer on May 23, 2002 does cite the original lease agreements as well as an obligation to honor "the rights of the public in any portions of the ... premises lying below the high-water mark of Lake Winnebago, Fox River and adjoining waterway."
The developers hope the estimated $20 million renovation project will resume soon.
Decade Properties began demolishing the 40-year-old hotel in September and planned to complete new construction in time for this year's Experimental Aircraft Association AirVenture convention at the end of July.
Eileen Connolly-Keesler, executive director of the Oshkosh Community Foundation, said the DNR and Decade both need to meet each other halfway to quickly resolve the issue.
"It's a bump in the road and we have to figure out how to accommodate some of the DNR concerns and continue with a project that has a huge impact on the community and taxes in Oshkosh," she said. "We have to figure it out quickly in a way that doesn't put it in a courtroom and delay the project."
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Location: Oshkosh | I'm not entirely sure if all would be this way, but most of the condo units are designed so they can be divided into two different living spaces... In effect, the owner of one condo could lease out the portion that contains a bedroom with a small wet bar and bathroom, arranged something like you would find in any hotel. As to how many units would be available to the public, I don't know for sure, but there will be units available for use by the public.
The Pioneer has an interesting history, and it is good to hear the positive remarks out there on its transformation. What is puzzling to me is why demolition would have begun (and completed) if there was any inkling that they would have trouble nailing down the permits to proceed with construction...
Mark |
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