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| Since my other post got hijacked, I thought I'd try this again...
Has the World Walleye Rankings methodology been updated? The following note has been posted by WF on the WWR page on this site:
First, read our document "About the WWR", then submit any suggestions or question to [email protected].
Updates:
The WWR Ranking formula and methodology has been updated to accommodate the new PWT Super Pro and Regional formats, incorporating strength of field as part of the "per-tournament" point assignment process
I tried to find the "About the WWR" document on this site and I've been unable to find it. I'm curious to know how the methodology has been changed to factor in the new PWT Super Pro/Regional format. Is this "strength of field" factor applied to calculating the performance of the FLW Tour anglers as well? Also, what happened to Tom Kemos?
Jim Carroll NPAA #13 |
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| I don't know what's going on with the WWR...I've emailed several times since October, trying to get Rick's Championship finish to reflect the correct finish of 20th place instead of the 23rd place finish the WWR is showing, and it hasn't been changed YET.
I gave up trying...lol
It was a good idea, but I can't take them seriously if they are not going to use the correct data. I have to wonder how many other mistakes are listed to tally up the scores.
Jim, wasn't the NPAA thinking about using the same system as Bass Fan's new system to make up a Walleye Ranking system? Hear anything on that lately?
Juls
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Location: Rockford MN | I talked face to face with Zach about the rankings, he would love to devote the countless hours it takes to enter all the data. In the real world his "free" time is limited. No one is paying him for any of this. He enters everything as he gets it and time allows. He would LOVE to have someone that can donate the time and effort he has to put into this.
I'm not sure about the PWT thing you asked about Jim? I'm sure if it says strengh of field thats what it means, on the other hand I have no idea how he could rank the FLW (over the past few years) by strengh of field? They have an "open" style format--- simply meaning they take any and all players, that follow all the things apllied. Now this year with the field set of 120 or what ever they have fishing all 4, things will change for them also.
You need so many events fished to get in the rankings- then it's like most of the other systems, based on performance. The rankings in this case reward high finishers and pentilze poor ones. So it's the who is the hottest over the past few years that finishes the highest.
Just like with anyone of us Time is money, and when you are doing something for free it's very hard to devote all that time on a simple fan ranking system. The way I understand it is most but not all the data right now is very close. I also asked him why not do the PGA of just money to rank the whole thing? You know where that went! I will leave that one alone, based on different payout formats.
Ranking the 200 players of this sport with 3 completely different tours has to be very hard to form a 100% common ranking. |
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| Subject) Since my other post got hijacked, I thought I'd try this again...
Q) Has the World Walleye Rankings methodology been updated?
A) Yes
The WWR Ranking formula and methodology has been updated to accommodate the new PWT Super Pro and Regional formats, incorporating strength of field as part of the "per-tournament" point assignment process.
Q) I tried to find the "About the WWR" document on this site and I've been unable to find it.
A) It is being updated due to new methodology dictated by the addition of the Super Pro and Regional Series, and the total number of avalable tournaments on the PWT side. Any time a pro circuit changes, the methodology must change with it, because the game has changed.
Q) I'm curious to know how the methodology has been changed to factor in the new PWT Super Pro/Regional format. Is this "strength of field" factor applied to calculating the performance of the FLW Tour anglers as well?
A) We will reveal (as always) the assumptions we used to build the model, but will not reveal the calculations used in the system.
Q) Also, what happened to Tom Kemos?
A) Tom Kemos had a duplicate in our database, so when the original rankings "ran" he was not pulled out as he fell one short of the minimum. When the rankings are updated again, he will be included in the update. Since re-running the rankings is a time consuming process, we wait until we think we have all the corrections listed before we update. We have made it a priority to complete that this week and note the changes in a front page article.
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| Quote) "I don't know what's going on with the WWR...I've emailed several times since October, trying to get Rick's Championship finish to reflect the correct finish of 20th place instead of the 23rd place finish the WWR is showing, and it hasn't been changed YET.
A) Ricks placing was changed in the ranking update done in November, but still existed in our leaderboard system, which is what is used to display the finishes that are tied to an angler's name, that has been corrected. In other words, it was updated in his ranking, but not in the displayed finish in the tournament listing.
Comment) I gave up trying...lol
A) ok...lol
Comment) It was a good idea, but I can't take them seriously if they are not going to use the correct data. I have to wonder how many other mistakes are listed to tally up the scores.
A) That's unfortunate. You seem to have alot of available time on your hands, are you volunteering to proof our data for us?
Q) Wasn't the NPAA thinking about using the same system as Bass Fan's new system to make up a Walleye Ranking system? Hear anything on that lately?
A) I haven't. But we would love to introduce a Bass Ranking System as well, we see alot of room for improvement in that particular system.
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Location: Rhinelander | I won't speak for Zach's time, but will for the Rankings.
There's far more to this system than a 'running average'. No one has seen the formula and no one will, but I assure you it indicates exactly where an angler should be ranked. If we are notified of an error in a standing at an event,it's looked into, and if the correction makes any change at all in an anglers top 200 rank, it is addressed. If not, it was addressed at the next Ranking update as a result of the previous system requiring a major amount of work to update. We have implemented new processes for 2006, and the updates will be lightning fast this year as a result.
I am amazed at some of the recent commentary; we provide an accurate, carefully constructed system that reflects the angler's standings TODAY, integrated with a full profile reflecting every event the angler has fished in the current ranking timeframe. Look at the Top 200, and look at the number of page views on each of those anglers. That section alone generates from 6000 to 12000 pageviews per week, as much or more than MAIN FEATURES on some top fishing related websites. What does this mean to the Ranked Pro? In Mr. Parson's case, it means nearly 6000 times his profile, pictures, finishes in each event, and sponsors logos have been viewed since we implemented the top 200 most popular angler feature.
This week, we are currently at 8999 clicks on that section of the WWR. WalleyeFIRST has been sure to provide plenty of quality shots for Rick and Juls, as an example, and not necessarliy just for THEIR appreciation. It's their fans we have in mind when that shutter clicks on the Nikon.
We are THERE, at the events, running an interactive live leaderboard, taking supporting photographs, providing cover stories, running audio and video interviews, and providing an 'almost like being there' atmosphere for Walleye Tournament Fans. This is a service we provide the WalleyeFIRST userbase which is very popular, and we anticipate adding more features as we refine our current system.
Addressing some comments elsewhere that the WWR system has an undefined 'flaw'; that's simple speculation as none of the folks making that comment have ever seen the model.
We use industry standards as to who is a Pro, not the whims, desires, or ideas of those we rank. The Pros have no input as it's not up to them who the PWT and the FLW call a Pro, it's up to the three ranked circuits. We cannot and will not arbitrarily adjust what those circuits definition of a Pro or a Pro Walleye Tournament might be, anymore than we would unfairly decide to rank one angler higher than another because someone decides he or she 'deserves it'.
As for taking the WWR seriously, I'd suggest if one wishes to ignore it that one might remember their fans are not. One might make sure that when the camera is pointed in one's direction, that the sponsor logos are crisp and visible!
I'd agree with the WWR commentary above, we see plenty of room for improvement in the bass rankings from our perspective. Imagine what the fans would think of real time interactive leaderboards, onsite video, audio, and photographic coverage, and the associated integrated features one sees in the WWR. We'd also like to see the Muskie Pro Tournament world mature enough to provide that same coverage. We will be providing coverage for the PMTT this year, and may decide to implement a ranking model based on that circuit. |
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| wwr - 3/1/2006 9:58 AM
It was a good idea, but I can't take them seriously if they are not going to use the correct data. I have to wonder how many other mistakes are listed to tally up the scores.
That's unfortunate. You seem to have alot of available time on your hands, are you volunteering to proof our data for us?
Well, let's see...If I actually DID havea lot of time on my hands, I would volunteer my time to help ZACH out....But, that's not the case really. In the month of February alone, we did 4 weekends of Coca-Cola Fishing promotions at Bass Pro Shops across the country. Those took up a little more than half the days out of the month. First one was in Georgia. The second one was in Myrtle Beach, SC. The third one was in Memphis (I did that one while Rick did our Dealer Open House the same weekend...I met up with him on Sunday for the last day of the Open House...a "red eye run" ), and the fourth promo was in Maryland, last weekend. This weekend is an easy one.... We only have to drive as far as Nashville this time, and we can swing by our dealer on the way home to help rig, and pick up our new boats, and bring them home on Monday too! (wahoo!! ) Prefishing starts in a couple weeks!!!!!
Besides all the road time and weekends scheduled out...I do have SOME time during the week to get household chores done (cleaning, laundry, painting, etc ), along with communications (phone calls, emails, etc ), and other odds and ends like grocery shopping, oil changes, runs to the pet store, etc. It only SEEMS like I have a lot of time on my hands...I make it look easy don't I? 
So, I only have a little itty bitty amount of time to volunteer to Zach...my buddy. If I proof what I can, and find mistakes, and I email you and point them out, are you going to make the changes?
Do you have something you can send me to proof the data from? Or, do I need to chase around the internet to find the finishes of 200 anglers in WWR qualifying events?
Juls
p.s. Thanks for giving me a reason why on Rick's data. Edited by Juls_OH 3/1/2006 9:56 AM
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Location: Rhinelander | I'm pretty sure Zach's comment was 'tongue in cheek', Juls. In the case of Rick's standings, as you now see, the Rankings are correct and have been since this fall. We do receive an occasional request for correction, and as I said, if it's a ranking error in any way, it's corrected.
Glad you are busy, that's the desire of any Walleye Pro! You should perhaps find an organization/company that would help you and other Pros capitalize on that hard work with press releases, appearance announcements, and much much more. PR is critical to long term contract success, IMHO. Just a suggestion. |
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| Cool! If Zach has something new coming out...that's great! Can't wait to see it!
Like I said, I couldn't take it seriously before, and in my mind it was for good reason. Today, after 5 months, I was finally given an answer to my question, so that's not an issue anymore. Sorry it had to hit the message board before it got your attention Steve.
Good luck...
Juls |
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| maybe you all could kill two birds with one stone so to speak? Have Coke sponsor the WWR! Just a thought? |
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Member
Posts: 56
| Thank you for replying! Jim Carroll NPAA #13 |
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| Is there any interest in cross-circuit analysis out there? Analyzing anglers who have fished both circuits along the lines of rank in one vs the other, avg place one vs the other??
We have the info.....
As Jerry Mitchell said, "It's a good read." |
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| The Coke promos are a "Job". This is not a contract with Coca-Cola, and shouldn't be confused with a sponsorship, like we had with Team Crown Royal. It's completely different. Coke does not sponsor Rick or me. We are working through the same marketing company that we worked with while on "Team Crown Royal" though, and getting paid for the promos individually. It's a job that allows us to stay in the fishing related end of promotions while still making a decent buck-a-roo. We also get to meet a ton of new people across the country, so that's another perk we get to enjoy.
Coke only has two Bass anglers on thier roster, and that's the TV Bachlor, Byron Velvick, and Tim Horton. Last year, Byron was the only one they sponsored, and this year they added Tim Horton. Neither one is running their wrap this year that I know of. Byron ran their wrap last year, but he's not this year, so I don't know what's up with that.
Juls
p.s. Yep Steve...you're right. I don't think there is anyone out there that understands the PR stuff more than Rick. |
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