|
|
Member
Posts: 921
Location: Manitowoc, WI | I started this topic on another site and received some good info. I thought I'd post it here for those who don't visit that site. We've all heard the big wave stories, now how bout all you veteran boaters and pro anglers discuss how to handle an 18 or 20 foot boat in these conditions? The advice you give may save someones life. Thanks in advance. You can also email me at [email protected]. If you would like to go out on a rough day in my boat on Green Bay or Winnebago, just let me know. I could use the learning experience. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Horshak - 5/2/2006 6:46 PM
I started this topic on another site and received some good info. I thought I'd post it here for those who don't visit that site. We've all heard the big wave stories, now how bout all you veteran boaters and pro anglers discuss how to handle an 18 or 20 foot boat in these conditions? The advice you give may save someones life. Thanks in advance. You can also email me at [email protected]. If you would like to go out on a rough day in my boat on Green Bay or Winnebago, just let me know. I could use the learning experience.
Lesson 1. If it is a rough day on Green Bay, we/I will not be going out. Nor should you.
Lesson 2. "Big Rollers" straight into or with the waves. "Big Choppers/Crestors" quartering works best.
Lesson 3. In waves 8 to 10 footers, stay on the throttle giving gas and letting off when needed. Do not let yourself be pushed/surfed by big waves into the next one ahead. I learned this valuable lesson off Rogers City Salmon fishing one very bad day in August in my 19' Sea Nymph, when things went from dead calm to severe in 20 minutes.
Lesson 4. Make all your passengers put their life preservers on, set flat on the floor in these smaller boats, in the middle and towards the back of the boat.
Lesson 5. If it becomes to rough to quick, consider all safe harbors or storm breaks closer and safer then running all the way back to the ramp you put in at. That "Get back to the ramp" mindset can kill you. We spent one night on Charity Island in the abandon light house years ago, when my dad deemed it to rough to make it back to the AuGres River. Its 40 years later and here I am telling the story.  
Theres a few others, but I think these are the best ones.
Edited by walleye express 5/2/2006 8:38 PM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1656
| Pretty good advice that Dan listed. I'd suggest quartering even in the big rollers when going into them. And even at times when "riding" with them.
Power to the top of the waves and then back off before you crest it. You want to keep your momentum with the boat.
Lastly, don't panic.
Bob, I'll be up to Green Bay this weekend for the SWC if you're there we can chat some more, and maybe a "test" drive if it gets rough.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 921
Location: Manitowoc, WI | Sounds good Jason. I might try and get out for a while on Saturday also. Looking forward to seeing you. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Great Job Dan!
This is a very important but difficult discussion to participate in. I agree that things discussed here could help save a life but so much of what we do in these situations are learned the hard way. It’s unfortunate but learning the “feel” or knowing your boats capabilities and your own capabilities occur by “baptism by fire”. On the water experience is the best teacher.
Rule number one should always be:
You should only be going out in what you feel comfortable with. That’s the bottom line! DO NOT get caught in situations where you are experiencing waves that you are not comfortable with.
As a tournament fisherman, I made a promise to my family and to myself years ago that no tournament director was making the final decision on my safety. I will ALWAYS make the final call on whether I go out in the conditions, not someone else. Do not let your macho attitude or others make that decision for you. Stick to your comfort level.
That being said, it is possible for you to increase you comfort and experience level by taking the time to “experiment”. One of the things that I did a few years ago was to take opportunities when I was alone, had free time and had a few building waves on “bago”. I went out when we had 3-4 footers to see what my new boat was capable of doing and what I was capable of doing. I attacked waves from different angles and speeds. This gave me a comfort level and some experience with the boat. The next time I was involved with 4 footers, I had a comfort zone and kept my head. This experience grew with 5’s, then 6’s and went on to 7 footers.
I personally think that you can read all the books and threads on the subject but until you experience it with a calm head, it’s very difficult to explain and put to print. It’s just too much “seat of the pants” learning.
My experience in waves larger than 7 footers tell me that you have to steer and throttle up and down constantly to keep the boat under control. You must keep the boat in control and NEVER try going too fast. Most people will agree that in the bad stuff, you’ll be going no more than 8-10 mph (or less). With steering, never try to make any major adjustments! Small incremental adjustments will keep you out of trouble. Don’t go directly into the big stuff. As Jayman suggests, quartering the waves is much safer.
Fortunately, I have only been involved in situations while driving in waves reaching 10 footers and larger twice in my life. I hope it never happens again! But if it does, I feel comfortable that I’ll get out of the situation by keeping a calm head, throttling up to climb the wave and then backing down the throttle during the decent. And as Dan suggests, you must be tacking left and/or right a little up wind back and forth. There’s been a few times when I’ve had to go past my intended harbor... then turning it around and coming back down wind. DO NOT try going crossways in the really big stuff!
I remember fishing with Tom Keenan in Green Bay during the FLW championship a few years ago and being extremely impressed with his ability to handle the bigger stuff. I was never nervous, just totally amazed with his ability to drive as fast as possible for the conditions and know when to slow down or tack. I hollered over to Tom at one point and asked him if he could talk me through his thoughts and actions. He just laughed! His answer was: “I have no idea why I do what I do when I do it. I just do it”. Try to explain that to someone? Those who have been there realize the meaning of this little story. After awhile, you automatically throttle and steer for the conditions. It’s extremely difficult to put it in words.
Be Safe!!!!
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Dennis is exactly right. And I hesitate to say this, but steering/handeling a boat safely in Big Water is liken to Jig Fishing in my mind. Either you mentally understand the dynamics and physically know/understand the moves to make, learn and aquire the ability and feel quickly/automatically, or you don't. I've never seen anybody istinctively bad at either get better as time went on. But being bad at one only means you get skunked. Being bad at the other has a few more serious consequences.  
Edited by walleye express 5/3/2006 11:02 AM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 106
Location: Chilton, WI | Dan has some good general rules there. Try and remember those when you are out in the rough stuff and don't push yourself past anything you feel comfortable in. Sunshine is right about experience, no amount of reading or advice (besides the general rules of thumb) will make you anymore prepared than expierience itself in the nasty stuff.
A couple of years ago I was fishing the reefs in Oshkosh, launched out of Stockbridge. It was almost calm as glass, then the wind picked up instantly, coming from the east. I knew to get the hell out of there right away. Pulled up the anchors and threw the rods down and was on my way. Well I wasn't more than 2.5 miles off the west shore and the waves were probably 6'-7' already. I think my speed ranged from 5-7 mph the whole way back in my 17' boat. By the time I realized I should have took shelter on the west shore I was in the middle of the lake. I remember looking back at one point to make sure the kicker was still on the back. It was there but my new $200 rigging rod and reel was about to fall out the back. The thought of leaving the wheel to grab my rod never even crossed my mind. If I would have left the wheel there was no doubt the boat would have capsized, leaving me to float around in 55 deg. water. I'll never forget the feeling I had when I got back the Stockbridge harbor. That's what it took for me to have confidence in my ability and boat. It also realy helped me to remain calm in other similar situations.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 885
| 10 years ago, I was fishing the north shore of Bago in a strong south wind. The fishing was great! I was trolling #7 countdowns in between the sandbars and had just put my 4th big Walleye in the livewell of my 15 foot Sylvan. I could see the storm coming from Fon du Lac, but thought I could make it back to the Jefferson Park Boat Landing with no Problem... I was wrong... by the time I finally made the decision to head back, the wind had kicked up to 30-35mph and my Aluminum 15 footer was no match for the waves. I made the choice to head back toward Waverly with the wind and spent the next 10 minutes hanging on for dear life while keeping my boat from swamping... the wind pushed my boat about 10 feet up the shore onto the sand. I spent the next 45 minutes watching this very strong storm from the safety of the bar blow like crazy. When it finally died down, a couple of guys from the bar helped me put my boat back into the water and I made it back to Jefferson.
So what did I learn that day..... watch the weather and don't take chances.
Now that I own a 1850 Skeeter, I feel a little safer on the water.
I was out both days last year in the Oshkosh area on Bago catching eyes when the water spouts hit the lake...
I kept telling the guy I was with to watch the clouds to see which direction they were moving... when they started to mover over us at about 35 MPH, I decided to head for the boat landing....I was smart enought to get back to shore and enjoy nature's show from the safety of my truck well before the bad weather hit the area!!
Despite my efforts last year, I still managed to get caught in big waves on the Bay and Bago a dozen times or more.... I think keeping a calm head and not tring to rush back to the landing proved to be the best method! Even when my knees were knocking the whole way back!
Purple Skeeter |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 376
Location: Menominee MI, In Da UP Eh? | Dan, Denis and the rest,
Awesome advice! The only thing I can add is to be sure to know how your boat responds in any condition, with a full tank or a low tank of fuel. The weight from your fuel tank can make a huge difference in what your boat will do and how it responds from you sawing at the wheel and working the throttle.
I feel that is the most overlooked aspect of piloting a boat in rough water. I hate rough water, but it does not scare me either. If your scared, your in big trouble.
Like Dennis said, I made the same decision when tournaments became part of my life too. I was responsible for me, no one else. If the directors said no, then it was no. If I said it was no, and they said go, it was still no. My life, my decision. Period.
When I started guiding, my customers were the ones that made the call. If they felt unsafe, we split, or didn't go out.
And storms are a whole other issue. And for some reason Bago has given me the most trouble there. Storms seem to do things over those bodies of water that defy science. If you think you have time, you don't. Leave before you get stuck.
Dan I find it interesting that you target Green Bay for nasty waves. That can be one mean body of water. The swells can be going one way and the waves another. Not a good place to fool around if one is unsure of rough weather running.
Play it safe gys n gals.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Opps.
Posted this reply first on the wrong thread.
Ralph.
I'd only take issue with one of your statements. I may leave the decision to my clients rather to call her quits or not if we're not catching fish or to simply go in before their elapsed time is done. By it's my call all the way, rather to leave the dock and head out into what I deem unsafe or uncomfortable waters. In general I will not head out in the morning in 3 footers or bigger, and if the forecast is for the same sustained, that only reinforces my decision. I will however stay out if they build to 3 to 5's when we're out there catching fish, and I see no further deterioration in the weather. Most of the time I'll simply look at the forecast that evening, and if it looks bad I call the clients and cancel or reschedule the trip and save them the time and effort of the travel. And yes, I've been stung by the weather man a few times doing it this way. Hell, he got me this morning for a river trip, Rain/Wind My A$$. Sunny and Blue skies as far as you can see. I have ample liability, but I'd prefer to never use it.
Edited by walleye express 5/4/2006 12:10 PM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 376
Location: Menominee MI, In Da UP Eh? | I originally replied to this on that same wrong thread.....
Oh I agree there Dan, I just didn't mention that.
I always started out any trip with the line that if they didn't feel safe at any time or thought it too rough, I'd rectify the situation. I also told them if I thought it was time to turn tail and run, or it was too rough, that would be my decision. As much as I didn't want to end up at the bottom of the lake, I didn't want them to be there even more!
I used to Guide on the Bago system, and if the lake was too rough there was always one of the smaller lakes or the rivers..lot's of places to get out of a big blow... |
|
| |
|
| I posted a long one on "the other site". so I won't , here.
But....like you say...It is a learning experience.
Some folks never learn, hopefully because they never did get caught out in it.
I don't know if it can be taught on shore, with words, without being out in it. Every vessel differs in how it reacts. every storm is a little different, too.
If you can FEEL what is going on, hopefully you'll know how to react.
It is like learning to ride a bike. You have to be out in a big blow and feel what's going on to know how to keep her going. Or like driving on ice, or sailing. You have to actually do it to get a feel for it. Some people have this natural ability, this "feel" , more so than others, I think.
When it gets totally ridiculous all you can do is point the bow into the wind and power up the waves back off some, and steer down them. You may have to ride like that a long time.... which means you may end up at the wrong end of the lake from where your tow vehicle is. That's Ok...you are still safe, right? Remember it is better to be a fisherman who is late than a "late fisherman".
I must be a sicko...but I enjoy it when it is just crazy wild, out there....provided I have nobody with me.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | T-Mac
I must be a sicko...but I enjoy it when it is just crazy wild, out there....provided I have nobody with me.
I think its because all your senses are at their peak, heightened by constant adrenaline flow that situations like that demand, rather chosen purposeful or accomplished by circumstances. I may have been "White Knuckled" at the time, but I know I never felt more alive (and a little high) then after we made the shelter of that Rogers City sea wall on that day in August.
Edited by walleye express 5/4/2006 5:42 PM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 376
Location: Menominee MI, In Da UP Eh? | Oh I dunno. We all may bea little sicko....
I have had a few times with close friends (the ones I knew I could get away with stuff like this) where I deliberately got them/us soaking wet by hitting the rough stuff just wrong enough.....
It is a lot of fun when you have an empty boat other than some fuel and batteries and get to do a shakedown in some bumpy water.
Also T-Mac, I have spent many an hour looking for a ride to where the tow vehicle was or for the weather to die down to get back to the tow vehicle. Sometimes it is just plain smart to go with the waves and angle for safe harbor and then worry about getting home. I have also stared at the backside of Cambers Island a few times waiting out a big blow....
At least you are getting home. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 921
Location: Manitowoc, WI | Thanks for all the good replies everyone. I will be taking a Coast Guard Course on seamanship, buying a recommended book and going out with someone that is experienced for a little tutoring. The best advice I am walking away with is, don't let others decide on my safety. I make the final call. Thanks again. |
|
| |
