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| Dear Fellow Boaters:
I received a phone call from Bill Hitchcock, President of Wind Pointe Harbor in Winneconne, who recently attended the meeting in Appleton on 10/20/04 @ J's Restaurant on the river regarding proposed water levels. Art Techlow from the FDL Yacht Club and also employed by the DNR, along with Diane Schabach, Harbor Master from Menasha, and Bill Nyberg, Jr. from FDL Yacht Club along with Bill were in attendance. There may be others that attended within our recreational boating community, but Bill wasn't familiar with any other faces.
The meeting comprised of approximately 50 people in attendance, plus representatives from various government agencies, i.e. a dozen from the US Army Corps of Engineers, Lake Poygan Sportsman's Club, State of Wisconsin DNR, Senator Finegold's two staffers, Fish & Wildlife Services/Green Bay, private contractors of hydro electric power and maybe a few more that didn't identify themselves.
A brief presentation was given by various members of the Corp of Engineers from the Detroit District. Matter of fact, Maria Strom, who mandated the water levels be dropped this spring to precariously low levels was also in attendance, and I might add, it was her first time EVER in our waterway system. Maria displayed/shared a graph that the water level will be @ 2.5 ft until July 1st, 2005 as proposed in the upcoming year.
In 1886, a plan called the "Marshall Order" came into being. Based upon this order, the water level on Lake Winnebago was to be retained at or above the crest of the Menasha Dam (1.68 ft. @ the Menasha marking, which equates to 3.0 @ Oshkosh) during the navigational season. The navigation season was defined as about 5/1 of each Spring until early October of each Fall.
Since the early 1980's, the Corps' Great Lakes Hydraulics and Hydrology Branch of the Detroit District has regulated the levels of Lake Winnebago using the Linde Plan. Arlyn Linde was a Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources Research Biologist who investigated the causes of wetland losses on the Winnebago Pool (a/k/a Winnebago Watershed) during their period 1974-1983. The plan is primarily intended to provide water usage for hydro-power and navigation, while preserving or enhancing fish, wildlife, wetland habitat and water quality. The plan requires maintaining a constant lake level during the navigation season. The Corps of Engineers has continued to operate under the Linde Plan guidelines.
Based on a 118 year history of attempting to maintain a water level of 3.0 @ Oshkosh during navigation season, why does the Corps of Engineers want to drop water levels to precariously low levels. The only vocal group in favor of dropping the levels was the Poygan Sportsman Club, according to Hitchcock. Art Techlow also reiterated the accuracy of the statements referenced above and added that he served his internship under the leadership of Arlyn Linde. Fisherman from Lake Winnebago who voiced their objection to the plan stipulated that the only thing they'd be able to catch from the end of their docks would be robins.
When Ms. Strom from the Corps of Engineers revealed her plan, it was not clear as to what the levels were based upon the color overlays. It wasn't until Bill Hitchcock queried Ms. Strom and asked for further delineation that it became apparent that Ms. Strom intends to keep the water level at 2.5 in Oshkosh until July 1, 2005 (not withstanding flood or drought conditions) when it will be elevated back to 3.0. In the event of drought conditions, an entire boating season could potentially be lost due to insufficient water level. Whether a boat is an 18' bow rider or a 40' cruiser, most all boats draw about 38-40". A stern drive typically draws 39" for comparative purposes. A loss of 6" is critical in our navigational waterways.
There are also the economical ramifications to our system as well. Revenues are lost at the gas pumps, marinas lose slip tenants transferring to larger bodies of water, transient fees, waterfront restaurant revenue, boat sales and the list goes on including tourism attracted on a daily or weekend basis. Further, excursion boats such as the one at the Fin n' Feather in Winneconne, as well as the Pioneer Princess, might not be able to move affecting an adverse domino monetary effect within our entire boating region. This further effects areas in Fremont, New London, Shiocton, Berlin, Omro and also makes navigation improbable below the locks in Menasha as well.
One of the greatest resources our State has enjoyed, and is looking to enhance with the forward thinking of Former Governor Thompson, is the reopening of the navigational system to the Bay of Green Bay. The Corps' present plan is counter productive to not only the recreational outlook of the summer, but adverse to economic growth through tourism and we'll most likely see business that depend upon a 6 month revenue stream, dry up as much as the shoreline.
PLEASE let everyone know who is a water enthusiast about the intended plans and to VOICE their objection to the proposed outlook for 2005 on water levels. Please write to: Michael K. O'Bryan, P.E.; Chief Planning and Programs Manager; Department of the Army, Detroit District; Corps of Engineers; P O Box 1027; Detroit, Michigan 48231-1027. Please also phone and express your objection to: David Barilovich @ The Army Corps of Engineers @ (313)226-5315 and to write your local government representatives on the state and federal levels.
For all of your friends who also happen to have waterfront properties, please let them know as this would MOST DEFINITELY drive down the value of waterfront homes and condos. This also applies to those who own dockominiums. Please keep in mind that we wish to make a strong, emphatic and respectful plea to those in positions of making critical decisions to the quality of life we enjoy within our waters. If you have any questions, Bill Hitchcock welcomes your phone calls and can be reached @ (414)228-8749.
If you would like to check on posted statements of intent, please visit the Army Corps of Engineers site @ www.lre.usace.army.mil/glhh/winnebago for more information. Please print copies of this for distribution in your boating clubs within your marinas, neighborhoods for those on waterfront properties, related marina/waterfront businesses and through your boating communities of friends and formed associations, i.e. Tri County Boating Club.
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Tyee:
Thanks for the info BUT it created more questions for me.
I never saw a reason why this is being done?
AND
The statement: "One of the greatest resources our State has enjoyed, and is looking to enhance with the forward thinking of Former Governor Thompson, is the reopening of the navigational system to the Bay of Green Bay"
The above statement is not something that many on this board support!!!!! |
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Location: Menasha, WI | Try telling my neighbors that the spring draw down was a bad idea. They are convinced that we would have floated away had it not been done. I know this year's spring rains were abnormal but people don't think in terms of averages, they think about the most recent seasons.
I am not well educated on the water levels and how they will affect boating, but I'm not convinced that the propsal is all that harmful. I am as Sunshine pointed out, strongly opposed to opening the lock system. I worry about the spread of exotics and I don't believe the massive expense of reopening the sytem will ever be recovered with the supposed revenue creation. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Well said Viking.
I keep thinking how a 6 inch drop would have changed my fishing and launching practices.
What are the pluses and minuses of this scenerio? Would we get more shallow weed growth? Would the bait fish have more areas to hide and prosper?
Who needs our water? Why is this being done?
My biggest concern is the wetland losses. Although 6 inches doesn't seem all that terrible to the lake proper a 6 inch loss could leave a lot of spawning area high and dry. This is only a speculation on my part and I would like to hear more from the experts. |
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| Tyee,
Thanks for the heads up. After reading you posting and checking the mission on their website, I am not sure that I understand the concern. It appears that their mission is to maintain levels to avoid flooding and assure safe recreational use. It appears that it is often a crapshoot and year over year they do the best they can with the available meterlogical and other resources reporting. I guess I don't see the immediate problem?? Yes, the opening of the locks would be a waste of finacial resources and endanger our ecosytems upstream. That is a huge problem.
Perhaps the drawdown issue is in response to last years tremendous rains and the time lag to useful drawdown??
I look forward to hearing others insights.
Take care,
Jim O |
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| I'm by no means an expert on this but I think you hit the nail on the head. With this kind of a drop there will be no water in the marshes in the spring and you'll be able to catch fish in Shawano on April first. As for the hatch...who knows depends on weather or not the levels are back up by April 15th. I think this is bad news for our system with no thought about shorline owners and the environmental ramifications! I think a few calls to your local DNR office are warranted to get their opinions. Click on the link to see historic data. check the options boxes and the past year for a comparison on what the levels have been in the spring.
http://www.lre.usace.army.mil/greatlakes/hh/lakewinnebago/historicw...
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Kaukauna WI | One question here that comes to mind is doesn’t Kaukauna Electric own all water Rights for this body of water because of generation at their multi power stations along the Fox River. I know for a fact that they work close to Corp of Army Engineers on levels. They do this to secure flow of water to their turbines 365 a year to generate power. Were they also at this meeting?
Thank you Tyee but are their facts here missing on who is responsible for this and who is not making end decisions.
Edited by irishwebs 11/2/2004 5:16 PM
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Location: Menasha, WI | Wisconsin's water resources are owned by the people. The DNR and CofE often work with private users, but ultimatley the private users have no say beyond what we allow them. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Tyee,
I agree with the concern about messing with the water levels of Winnebago, but I disagree with the idea that the water level of Winnebago affects the amount of water on the marshes.
Oshkosh's elevation is 743 feet above sea level, Fremont's elevation is 783 in order to get water on the marshes Oshkosh would have to be under water. The elevation keeps going up as you travel up the system. New London 789, Shiocton 805 and Shawano 821.
This is the link to the site I used for the elevation information: http://stuff.mit.edu/geo?location=shawano%2Cwi
The most important element that affects water on the marshes is snow. If snowmobiling is great in Crandon, Shawano and New London, there will be plenty of water on the marshes, just like last year.
Edited by BeFishin 11/3/2004 8:49 AM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Bob,
Thanks for the great info. It's just another reason why I love this site. I just keep learning more and more from you guys.
This makes sense. The low water will/can affect those down stream not up..............correct?????? Or is it possible that the low water on Bago would draw water from marshes? Inquisitive minds want to know 
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| The water levels on the wolf are controlled by opening and closing the damns in Shawano and the damns on the Fox,so I believe that by keeping the damns closed in Shawano affects the level in the Wolf. This has been discussed by others in the past and many disagree, I'm no expert but have seen so many changes depending on run off between Shawano and Winnebago that I can't imagine that a level of 2.5 feet thru July would be good for anyone!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Posts: 580
Location: Green Bay, WI | I'm not an expert either but the approach I was taking is that you can't force the water up hill. In other words trying to put water on the marshes around Fremont and New London by closing the dam at Menasha will be extremely difficult.
It's somewhat like putting a bucket at the bottom of your downspout, then putting a hose in the bucket, turning on the hose and trying to push the water up the downspout. The water only gets as high as the top of the bucket. How high the water goes up the downspout depends on the size of the bucket. A five-gallon bucket will cause the water to go higher than and a gallon ice cream pale.
Now the dam at Shawano is a different story. That directly affects the water on the marshes because it is higher than the marshes. In the downspout/bucket example the Shawano dam is at the top of the downspout, so blocking or unblocking the top of the downspout affects the water level in the bucket.
That's the best example I could think of, how'd it work?
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Location: Menasha, Wis. | Has anyone noticed any effects of this drawndown?
Is it affecting the upper lakes and the rivers more than Bago?
I do not notice the change on Bago, except that the water levels at my favorite launch might be down a couple of inches.
 Happy fishing to all.
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| I did notice a couple hazzard bouys out this year, where there have been non in the past. One is straight up from the Light house in Fondy. But perhaps this is one of the new reefs put in? |
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| Shep, This is just one of the problems, I have seen many, including the fish moving out of the upper lakes earlier this year, along with the fish avoiding the Neenah and Menasha Rivers, the Wolf also is down so I would imagine the wetland marsh wildlife is also being affected this late in the year. I know they are looking for information from the users on what we are seeing!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| Befishin hit it on the head. Once the water is within it's banks here in New London what's going on at Shawano plays a more important part then what goes on in Menasha due to the difference in sea level. Butte des morts and Winneconne are affected more then the Wolf River above Lake Poygan although places on the Wolf that used to be rapids can get pretty shallow when the entire system is low on water. The area near Partridge Crop lake is a prime example, but that's where "inches" make a difference. The main channel won't change much based on 6" on Lake Winnebago this far up stream.
Sure makes you wonder, seems like 3 feet was a well thought out plan.
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Not sure what you guys are using to measure the depth of the water, but the ACOE site that lists 'bago levels shows that we are right at the long term average and actually a bit above the level we saw in 2003.
As far as the navigational hazards, that probably has more to do ice shoves than anything else.
Heres a link:
http://www.lre.usace.army.mil/greatlakes/hh/lakewinnebago/historicw... |
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Location: Menasha, WI | "along with the fish avoiding the Neenah and Menasha Rivers"
As someone that fishes the rivers often, I'd have to disagree. The fish were in this year but, true, weren't around as long. IMHO, the erratic temperatures (i.e.hot April followed by the cold May) had more to do with the patterns in the rivers than the water levels.
Here's some graphics Brad links:
The first is the 5 year record of Bago lake levels.
The second is Lake Winnebago Tributary Inflows for the last year. As you can see, the inflow is way down this year compared to last year's floods (previous years aren't available).
Edited by Viking 6/14/2005 3:55 PM
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 GraphData.cfm (29KB - 161 downloads)
GraphData2.cfm (31KB - 159 downloads)
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| Viking the flo's (water level) directly relate to the temp, as you know the rivers and upper lakes are not 20' deep like bago and temperature changes drastically at various levels, The cane bite was only hot for a week this year along with the rivers! Yes the levels are now at average but thats what they are trying to do. The low levels this spring (along with cool temps) had an effect don't you think? But which one played the more important part is what I think needs to be determined.
Look at the 5 year graph and I think you will see the same thing I do, 2001-2002-2003 the flows and levels the month of March were quite a bit different for the walleye migration. while all years were pretty equal the week of April 3 (prime spawning and many fish in different marshes this year) there is a significant difference for the month of May when many species are utilizing the wetlands for nesting and fry returning to the lake! As you may know those years are some of the best hatch years we have ever had and the levels were quite a bit higher! I think the trawling results this year may tell an interesting story about this, we'll have to wait untill November to be sure though!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Menasha, WI | Tyee,
My comments are limited to the Neenah/Menasha outflows. I was catching fish consistently in April when the water was low. As soon as the temps dropped, the fish disappeared and shortly thereafter the waters levels began to climb. While I witnessed a corellation of fish/weather, I witnessed no such correlation to lack of fish/low-water. Not very scientific, but that's my experience this spring.
There are so many factors involved, snowpack, rainfall, temperature, etc.. it would be next to impossible to isolate any one-year variance in the hatch to a single factor.
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| Is what was stated at the beginning of this thread actually happening now? Has the water been kept 6" low on purpose and will be it raised back up to the 3' norm on July 1st? Just wondering.....Dave S |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | No - the lake is RIGHT at the long term average. Actually higher than where it was in 2002, but a little lower than 2003 and a LOT lower than last year. |
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