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| Did you see the televised event last year where the angry lake-home owner approached the BASS angler on the water on Live TV (while Jerry McKinnis was interviewing him) and yelled at him out for leaving too large a wake at his dock? |
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Location: Devils Lake, ND | Well, here goes nothing. Please don't hold any of this against me as we are all on the same team.
First of all, I believe we are our own worst enemy on several points. #1, get out of your head that we aren't big enough to compete with BASS. That is BS. Was NASCAR even close to the size of F1 and Indy ten years ago? I remeber as a kid, if you wanted to watch racing on Wide Word of Sports, the cars had no fenders. Build it and they will come. NASCAR is a perfect example of placing the right product in the right place and creating something from nothing.
Next, walleye fishing is boring to watch? Then why is this site so popular? If watcing planer board is so boring, then why do we do it? If it is exciting enough to do, then it can be shown in a manner that will make you want to watch it. Is painting a room in your house exciting to do? I do not believe so, but how many hours in a day can you watch that on cable TV? I think watcing my planer boards sink on Lake Erie or Saginaw Bay is pretty darn exciting, and I bet all of you do too.
The table fare argument does not hold water with me either. Trust me when I say this, there are plenty of folks out there that do not throw a bass away. I have traveled and lived many places where bass are considered table fare the same as walleye are. I know it sounds hard to believe, but it is true.
All of us want to see the sport grow, none worse than I do. I have chose to work my tail off in this industry for 12 years now and have no plans of giving up. The problem is that we are admitting defeat before we even start by saying we aren't big enough, our sport isn't exciting enough, our fish taste too good. We need to build it and let them come.
I watched nearly every minute of the Classic on Sunday. I didn't watch it to see KVD skip 12 inchers across the water. No one here can tell me that is more exciting thatn watching a planer board go backwards. Actually, there was very little fishing action shown on TV. I watched on the edge of my seat to see when, why, how, where KVD was doing his thing. I watched because I used to live only an hour away from Pitt PA. Actually my High School Prom was on a river boat there. I watched to hear the industry insider information and to see where the game is headed.
My family watched because they think I am some kind of weirdo to watch this all day, so it must be good. The point I am trying to make is that not everyone watches for the same reason. Who cares, as long as they watch. NASCAR is the same way, so is golf. I do not have a driver in NASCAR, I watch for the wrecks. I do not own golf clubs, but I watch to get in the psyche of the golfers, to see the mental part of their preparation. Maybe I can learn something from them. These are not common reasons to watch the games, but I watch none the less.
I have a marketing degree and have been selling things for a long time. The only way we are going to sell this at the level we all want it to be sold, is to believe in the product. I have been told that I can sell ice cubes to Eskimos, but that is not the case. If I don't think the ice cubes are good enough or what they need, I cannot sell them. I am afraid that we are headed that way with some of the comments I have read in the past few days. We need to believe in our product.
There is a ton of room for improvement in how we are displayed on TV. Do I want the job of doing it? No way. Can I offer sugestions, sure. I agree that the direction is better than it has been and that it must continue or we may fade away. That scares me. We need to stay united and remember that slow and steady wins the race. BASS has only been televised like this for two years. We will get there and I promise I will do all I can to help.
This post got real long, I am sorry for that. I hope I have cleary stated my position and not offended too many. I do love this game and Ii want to play it for a while longer. There have been some great ideas posted along this thread, let's hope the right eyes read them. |
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| Sorry guys I really didn't intend for this thread to go this way but in all honesty weather fish are dead or alive won't matter if the production is done right! I don't think this is a case of "If you build it they will come" But rather a case of make me want it so bad it hurts! So the question is how do you do that?
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Johnnie,
I couldn't agree with you more. For along time indy cars were the elite in racing, now it's nascar. How many people know who won the indy 500? Golf has always been on T.V., but why did it become so popular? Tiger Woods, and the marketing of Tiger Woods, same with nascar, it's the marketing of the sport
The powers to be have to find a way to make it more popular, and that takes money, alot of money. I think in the not to distant future, walleye fishing will become alot bigger. We just need someone to come forward with the dollars and get it on t.v. with better time slots and on primetime, Put the PWT championship on live t.v.
Eric |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | WOW,
Very interesting comments from many well informed people. I value the knowledge given and will attempt to give my take on the problems and solutions.
First, everyone is talking about the recent Bass Masters televised tournament. This speaks volumes. Take a good hard look on HOW that tournament was covered and then take a close hard look at how our tournaments are displayed to the masses. THEIR coverage is more interesting with more personal stories and they CREATE the drama needed for prime time television. IMHO almost all of the coverage that we receive is boring except to the die-hard fishermen that frequent sites like this one. They create the drama! They do interviews and look for interest stories that people care about. I do not see this when I watch the limited TV coverage that we receive.
I had an infrequent “day off” yesterday and I needed to re-energize the body batteries. I actually had a day to get caught up with emails, check out the web sites and watch a little TV while pretending that I was being a couch potato for a day. What amazed me was that ESPN had the 2005 “national” eating competition on for several hours. Can anyone tell that watching over weight people eat pasta for 3 hours is more interesting than watching a walleye tournament? I really do not think so. Some say (I used to say the same thing) that watching walleye fishermen use planer boards is boring. Then why do I keep seeing tournaments being covered on ESPN where all they do is troll for sailfish, blue marlin etc. Networks like ESPN have been covering these types of tournaments for years. I believe that it comes back to what I have said earlier. It’s how it is presented. With the right amount of money (you are right Steve) our tournaments can be as interesting as any bass tournament or Red Fish tournament. No one can convince me that demographics are better for Red Fish tournaments. How can that be possible? Yet I see more national coverage on their events then ours.
OLN seems to have more bull riding coverage than tournament fishing coverage. Can anyone tell me that more people ride bulls than walleye fish? Again, I think the answer is no. But, have you ever watched a bull riding show? They make it interesting by giving you behind the scene interviews, they make you want to learn more about the contestants and they create drama.
I think that you all get my point!
Look at all the events covered on ESPN or OLN and tell if they are more interesting to the masses than walleye tournament fishing. Then tell me that more people are interested in watching people: eat too much, watch people shoot billiards, bowl or learn about RV’s.
It’s all in the marketing!
We have the interest stories…… Hell, ever spend a day in the boat with Johnnie Candle? He’s a hoot, very articulate, is somewhat good looking  ……. What about the Gary Gray story? ……… When Gary comes back from health issues next season and kicks everyone’s butt, doesn’t that make our coverage interesting? What about his win at the casino? That’s not made for TV?
We need someone to step up to the plate and invest the time and MONEY into our tournaments. We have EVERYTHING right NOW that will make US interesting. Bass Fishing has nothing on us if we are presented correctly.
I think that Johnnie has it right when he says that we are our own worst enemies. As long as we continue to tell the world that we are second fiddle to the bass guys we are. As long as we bastardize (I think it’s okay to say this word since it’s in the Webster dictionary) ourselves to potential sponsors for a few T-shirts and hats, and as long as we portray ourselves as country pumpkins, we will never get the TV coverage that we deserve. Act like professionals, expect professional respect and promote the sport every chance you get and we will survive.
What we need is one or two MAJOR sponsors with REAL money to step up to the plate and invest in the prime time coverage that we deserve with the type of coverage that is made for prime time viewing. I agree that having more interesting activities surrounding the main event will help BUT it will not matter if it is not covered by the national media.
We are here, we are interesting, we are professional, people do respect what we do and many are hungry to hear our stories and learn how we put fish in the boat. It’s time to get the coverage that we deserve. Who is listening? Who will step forward to make it happen? Who amongst us will help promote us to the stature we are ready for? Forrest Woods of Ranger did it for the bass world any years ago. With today’s media it doesn’t have to take as long as it did for him and the bass community.
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Part II of my Thesis on Tournament Coverage
The PWT is still the top dog in Walleye Fishing coverage. This is good and bad. As mentioned before their major emphasis seems to be on promoting the In-Fish magazine and their sponsors. They do not produce (IMHO) the same caliber of made for TV coverage as BASS or the FLW. They need to go to the next level.
The FLW does a great job on covering the bass side of things but we only get the last 5 minutes of the show IF we have a major tourney. This does not help us. They do a great job of covering the championship but they need to do more to promote our sport the rest of the year.
Some say that we have too many tournaments now. I disagree! I think we need more but better organized tournaments. We need more “feeder” tournaments like the Red Man series that feeds and builds up the Majors. We need more recognized proving grounds for those coming up through the ranks. We have great local fishermen out there now but no one knows their names because our tournament circuits around the Midwest are not organized properly or build up to the big leagues.
We need more big name tournaments out there. Ranger has stepped up to the plate. Lowrance appears to be trying. Rumor had it last year that Brunswick was planning something. Having Brunswick produce a tournament series would be good news for all of us I think.
We need to promote our sponsors better but need their help. Those specially wrapped boats on Bass and the FLW look great. We need more of this type of promotion in our world. We all need to work together to make this happen.
We need to offer seminars to the newbies in our profession explaining the do’s and don’ts of how to promote themselves, their sponsors and how to get the word out about the value added in walleye tournament fishing.
We need the help of local media to promote the sport (as mentioned earlier). Why isn’t newspapers like the Milwaukee Journal covering the sport. Is anyone taking the time to contact them and let them know what is happening. I’ll guess no because they are perceived as the competition by those who are covering/sponsoring the sport now.
We need more within the rank and file to look, act and portray themselves as professionals. You are a professional 24-7, 365 days a year. Act like it, dress like it, walk the walk and talk the talk all year long, not just during a few tournaments a year.
Tournament promoters need to expect more from the participants, the local chambers and the media. Listening to some tournament directors, it sounds like they are happy if they get free rooms for themselves and they get the DNR permit.
We can all do more to promote the sport.
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| More camera's, helecopters and big productions take BIG money!!!!!!! Need to find a walleye enthusiast with deep pockets. I guess Irwin Jacobs qualifies but he's in competition with the PWT isn't he? So back to divided interests and pools of available money to take care of sentence 1. If walleye fishing is going to get the coverage it "desires", then a road that starts on the club and smaller cicuit level that leads to a pro level of competition that cumulates with ONE CHAMPIONSHIP of the top 50 anglers of that year and you might have something to compete with. (again, just my opinion)
I also do not think that there are enough guys like Johnnie, Keith K and the many others that work hard to make themselves significant outside the relm of walleye anglers. We had arguably the most fun chance to spend a day with these top guys and gals at our 3 Fish, Sticks and Stones events and couldn't get more then a handful of people to participate outside Dale Stroschein and my groups of close friends. "We would have had more poeple show up to meet Potsie and the Fonz" was a classic discussion with the group. Guys gave up valuable pre-fishing time to try and do something good and when we can't get draw an additional 40 people to help fill the event. Sunshine was there, Johnnie too. So was a list of great walleye anglers, but no "fans" to speak of. A strong, vocal, out-front charity "leg" of the PWT would go a long way to increase the significance of each and every angler who participates (IMHO) THAT, I feel, would go a long way to increasing the popularity and audinece. Not sure what the BASS people are doing but I know other professional sports have a very out front charity presence. Watch golf or football and look at the anount of commercial time is spent promoting it.
You have to admit, the coverage of the "Classic" was pretty cool. Didn't care or watch to see who won, but sure did spend a little time watching it. Mike Iconelli is fun towatch. The first time I fished in the MWC I used to do a break dance routine on the front of the boat too. But after a god fish, and being pretty excited, l threw a boot and it hit another angler, knocked him in the water and he almost drowned. Kaz told me to cut it out but I didn't get the message until I "spun" a 1/4 oz blue hair jig firmly in my glutious maximus. THAT cost me a half day of fishing and an interesting ride in 3 footers the next day.
I hope it gets figured out. It's deserving of the effort of so many talented walleye anglers to get the best available coverage, I personally hope it's the PWT that comes through. |
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| I love walleye fishing, and am excited to be a participant in walleye tournaments. HOWEVER, I think we are putting the cart before the horse. In my opinion, tourney walleye fisherman have to earn the right to obtain bigger, more higher profile sponsors and dollars. I think that as a community of walleye fisherman, we have not earned that right, just yet. Suggestions such as "build it, they will come" is not real world. Thats like going to the bank and asking for a business loan, without a business plan. Saying BASS gets all the TV coverage and we don't is too self-centered. 30 years, plus or minus, of some level of organized BASS tournaments, plenty of mistakes and good fortunes have helped the bass community to where it is - they earned it. Thats like comparing the baseball skills of a 5 year kid (walleye tournaments) to a 20 year collegiate star (bass tournaments). Grass roots efforts is just that, grass roots. It takes hard work, perserverance, ON GOING effort and an ability to develop a plan where all parties win. When was the last time any of us obtained a sponsorship, and then acted like their is no more effort necessary to promote that sponsor? Thru the course of the summer, are you still as active with your sponsor as the you where in the springtime? What are you doing for your hard earned sponsorship here in the beginning of August? When was the last time any of us participated in an fishing event, for the good of the industry, without looking for that whats in it for me attitude? People personalities; there are many in the walleye world, just need to be unlocked under the right circumstances; which we have to earn. Lets look at the bigger picture, then develop a plan to get from where we are today - to that end goal. Wishing won't make it happen! Nor, being number 1 on the world walleye rating scale will not make it happen either. I realize their are some real genuine people in the walleye world who have paid their dues and are class acts. I just believe that fisherman (and tourney promoters) alike have to work consistently for their sponsors and this industry, for walleye tourneys to rise to the next level. |
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Location: Devils Lake, ND | Kim,
When I say "Build it and they will come" this is what I mean. Walleye fishing needs to move ahead, then have the sponsors come. It is the same way I had to get every one of my sponsors. Build it, show it, sell it. We may have to take a step backwards financially (organizers) to take a huge step forward later.
To answer some of you questions about working for sponsors and giving time away to better the sport, I may not be the right guy to ask. I am on the water nearly daily testing new stuff or refining old things. I have a dealer meeting this weekend to work for my boat sponsor. I have been to several photo shoots in the past month. Meetings to develop new products are just getting started for the off season.
I would hate to list all of the time I give to promote the sport of fishing. I will bet a year's pay that I give more time away than I get paid for. Doc's Golf Outings are a prime example. I drove from ND to Green Bay to participate and got not one nickle in return, nor would I ever ask for one.
Kim, there are enough guys out there doing it right, the problem lies with the man at the switch. I don't even know who this man is. We can speculate...tournament directors...large publishing corporations...Irwin...who really knows. It may be time that we quit relying on someone else to create our destiny, and create our own.
The problem that arises then, is the circle starts over. In the bginning the new person in charge will look out for everyone's best interest, but as time goes on they too will look out for themselves. I do believe it was in George Orwells story Animal Farm where the pigs began to walk on their hind legs, making them just like the humans they once despised.
We will have to go through this cycle many times, much as BASS has had to. ESPN will most likely not be the last stage of the BASS, nor will Primedia be the last stage of the PWT.
Let's just hope we all get to enjoy the growth and live to see it get better. |
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Location: Rockford MN | Here it is in a nut shell! Bass showed us how to to it without going though the growing pains! Just like the other sports or events, if it's marketed right to start it will become popular! Golf is the best example, it's pretty boring to watch but they make it interesting by jumping from guy to guy and keeping the leaderboard up so you always know how you're guy is doing! I don't care how long walleye tournaments have been around, Redfish get more and better coverage than we do and it's because of TV! Marketing Sponsors is MUCH easier when you can do it on TV than at a weigh-in with 100 people there!
The fact that walleye tournament fishing has not been around as long as Bass holds no weight anymore in this day and age! So if you build it they will come! Market the product like bass and I'll bet they would have the veiwers and the sponsors!
In no way is this to say that Bass has not gotten what they deserve, just the ground work on there success is already laid out for the walleye world to take from! |
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Location: Rhinelander | Walleye competitive angling is about 20 years old. That's the reality of it, the MWC was really the first trail out there that was 'made to order' promotionally designed. The MWC was put together by a few progressive companies who wanted to see the sport grow, and guess who was at the helm; Jim Kalkofen. We built the MWC to the number one team circuit, a title still held by the MWC today.
The PWT was developed by In Fisherman, again with the helm work by Jim Kalkofen. The format was focused on the Pro and alternating Co anglers, placing the center of attention squarely on the very people you folks are concerned about. I just watched the 2004 PWT video again the other night because of an inane statement I saw elsewhere and a fellow who answered that statement with a play by play. Made me go get mine out of the rack and watch it again, just to see who was right. Here was the format:
Opens with announcer talking about the upcoming event. Goes to MC Jim O'Rourke, describing the area with a cool 3 D representation of the water. To the Director, Charlie Moore, for a day one on the water update, featuring anglers across the board; every boat brand, every engine brand, action shots of fish coming into the net, close-ups of the anglers, commentary on the water. To Jim Kalkofen somewhere else on the water, same deal. Quality video, high impact and absolutely saturated with Pro exposure. Weigh in, get the story about the top teams and interviews with a couple of the leaders.
Day two, same lead in but focused on conditions and the bite, interviews before ceremonies with the leaders, on the water coverage of those in the lead and those who are doing well enough to sneak up on the leaders, excellent on the water coverage of anglers who are NOT in contention, CM and JK with camera crews cruising the lake looking for the action shots and getting them. Weigh in interviews and loading the fish in the baskets, lots of multibrand shots, nice stuff. Some drama on the stage, well done IMHO, then interviews with the day two leader, etc. Day three, the top couple teams have camera crews in the boat all day, Excellent footage of the action, with other film of the Pros who have a shot at the win. On to the weigh in, drama at the dock, baskets of 'eyes, excited Pros, to the hold backs and amount needed to win...."Does he have enough? Hit that scale! YES!!!" and the winner freaks out, grabs the trophy, and holds it in the air. Turning Point wrap up interview as to when the winner felt the event began to really go his way. In the middle, there is a selected angler Pro-File. Todd Frank, Bill Ortiz, etc. Nice stuff, gets the public up close and personal to a Pro and what it takes to make this so for that particular personality.
This isn't a championship, it's a qualifier. It IS on TV, and the video is top shelf. The entire promotional angle is on the PRO and the Co, not anywhere else. This is well done beautifully produced television and video, so I don't feel this is the issue.
Keep in mind in the case of the Classic this was the Championship, and IMHO the live coverage made the show. They had 8 hours to hype like madmen while the anglers were on the water; they had to fill that time with something, so there was alot of time to really get down to detail and show the break dances, personalities, and much more. ESPN paid over 50 million dollars for BASS so they HAD BETTER create the atmosphere that will command a good return on investment. ESPN owns it's own networks, airs it's own shows, has it's own crews, equipment, and deep, deep pockets. ESPN has the luxury of already owning LOTS of programming slots to place in the prime time if they want.
I don't see FLW ( Irwin Jacobs, by the way) or the PWT doing anything like this in the immediate future, the cost would be absolutely off the map and return on investment highly questionable. ESPN has all of that synergy already built in, they are made-to-order perfectly suited to do what they did with the Classic, and they OWN the thing. The PWT and FLW do a very good job filming and producing the shows and videos, so that isn't the issue. The issue, IMHO, is heavily hyped LIVE coverage on a major network driven by a circuit Championship that is established already as THE SHOW for a sport that has had much more time to develop nationwide venues, sponsor support, and media coverage across the spectrum. The Classic was even featured on the Weather Channel!
SO, what's the key to getting the coverage live on a major network? IMHO, and I mean humble opinion: Progress, open new markets across the country, take competitive walleye events to areas that have never hosted this sort of thing and make competitive walleye fishing a more of a national interest. Develop those new markets and debunk the old stigma that walleye fishing is regional to the midwest, which of course isn't true. Keep growing competitive walleye angling as a professional sport, and if you are a Pro hope to all hopes that both FLW and PWT stick with it as things develop. This business has grown tremendously in 20 years, and is poised to grow at an accelerated rate over the next few years.
This aint BASS, at least not yet, and Primedia and Genmar aint ESPN. Both FLW and PWT have seasoned, talented veteran directors and top shelf Executive directors, and both have excellent event staff onsite. Both run an extremely media friendly tournament. Both have expanded their reach to new markets. Both have a goal of growing the sport. They are doing this right, IMHO, but we are impatient and want walleye to magically be where bass is because ESPN created a really cool program surrounding the Classic. ESPN CREATED A REALLY COOL PROGRAM, NOT BASS, NOT THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE BASSMASTERS CLASSIC, NOT THE TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR------ ESPN!! One event, not all the qualifiers, the Classic. But wait, how many productions like the recent ESPN coverage of the Bassmaster's Classic have been aired? Two? The level of coverage has NEVER been that good, so as a friend of mine says......this is a process, not an event.
As media, as Pros, and as Co Anglers, we need to join forces and work with the organizations that have built the stage we film, photograph, and walk across with the basket of 'eyes. That's what the bass world did, and at least one circuit became so attractive a monster media company bought it. There's a model there, albeit somewhat different because of the scope of bass fishing in general. |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Joel "Doc" Kunz - 8/2/2005 2:52 PM
More camera's, helecopters and big productions take BIG money!!!!!!! Need to find a walleye enthusiast with deep pockets. I guess Irwin Jacobs qualifies but he's in competition with the PWT isn't he? So back to divided interests and pools of available money to take care of sentence 1. If walleye fishing is going to get the coverage it "desires", then a road that starts on the club and smaller cicuit level that leads to a pro level of competition that cumulates with ONE CHAMPIONSHIP of the top 50 anglers of that year and you might have something to compete with. (again, just my opinion)
Doc is right.
We seem to have just to many (split divisions) in the sport. You can be a champion on one tourney circuit looking at fisherman of the year, and a dud at the bottom of another if you occassionally decide to jump into other devisions. If all the resources were going into one coffer to benefit and promote walleye tourneys as a whole, it would have to get both bigger and better out of plan numbers as much as neccessity. And I've always held more respect and been a bigger loyal fan of the guys who I know have come up through the ranks and paid their small tourney dues. |
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| Thanks Dan, as you said >>If all the resources were going into one coffer to benefit and promote walleye tourneys as a whole, it would have to get both bigger and better out of plan numbers as much as neccessity. And I've always held more respect and been a bigger loyal fan of the guys who I know have come up through the ranks and paid their small tourney dues.
>>
I also feel that starting the PWT on the club level, working towards state and regional events gives anglers a chance to learn to compete at a younger age and in the long run breeds professionalism. A sense of additional pride would come in to play when, for instance, a fellow member of the "Lighthouse Anglers Club" wins something. As the mentioned club does, good clubs will be active on their home body of water, raise funds and awareness and be the starting grounds. Determine what promoter meets the requirements to organize state club competitions and find another one (if you need to) to run the next level. Could the RCL and PWT find a middle ground and let one (sat the RCL?) have the large state or regional competitions and the PWT run a schedule of "top 150 events" and a PWT Championship? Sure would be nice to see the best of the best battle it out for the big money. With two top money championships, to me it's like 2 kids trying to eat the same piece of pie.
In the long run it would make every angler interested in competative walleye fishing more involved and boost the roots of walleye angling by bolstering club membership. IMHO
Steve, very well said.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 8/7/2005 6:33 PM
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