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Location: Appleton | Einstein looked up the 30th place totals for the 2004 events Mercury National TWELVE fish 23.22# average fish 1.83# Fleet Farm TEN fish 15.84# average fish 1.59#. Neitherr team weighed a big fish. Also Mercury National has 300 teams and Fleet Farm has 150 teams. With a limit of two more fish and twice the teams fishing IS THIS A FAIR COMPARISON? Botton line if someone wants to compare weights they are all on our web Page wwwifishtfm.com
My only question at this point is what is the injustice if we are doing what the majority asked us to do? Where is the injustice??
Jim (Einstein) Coon
Edited by Jim Coon 12/12/2005 3:58 PM
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Jim, or in this case, Einstein....LOL....
Injustice......bad choice of words on my part. I apologize for that. I was typing my response as I was getting out of work and rushed through it without proofing it.
Let me say this Jim: Pat Schuette and I, along with some of our other friends and partners, have discussed the great job you and your staff do with this circuit. We have nothing but compliments for you. We feel you and your staff have the most organized and best run mid-level circuit in walleye fishing. My opinion is based solely on the fact that Bay de Noc is probably my favorite place to fish and given the success I've enjoyed there I am disappointed that you will not be going back. This opinion of mine led to a conversation with a number of fellow tournament fisherman over the weekend and each feels the same way I do. That is why I have brought this subject up again. I still feel that going to Winnebago in August and omitting Bay de Noc in September will not lead to more entries. If I had to give you a reason for less entries for the final event it would be because most feel they do not have a chance to make the championship, not to mention those that are intimidated by the amount of water and those who wish to fish out of their backyard. Only time will tell if I am wrong and, if I am, it won't be the first time and it definitely won't be the last.
Edited by jerry 12/12/2005 4:46 PM
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Jerry,
I agree with what you and Sunshine are saying, I don't fish the MWS, but as a tournament fisherman I would personally like to fish different water. I too heard that some of the competitors were intimidated with the size of the water.
From Jim's point of view, I do think you will see more anglers fish a bago tournament than a LBDN tournament. As a tournament director that is what he needs to have more competitors. You have to remember that the MWS is a smaller circuit, not a national one, like the PWT. you are used to the bigger water, I can say the first time I went to G.B. I was intimidated by it. As I said I have never fished the MWS, but I would think the competitors don't have the big tournament rigs, that can handle the bigger water.
New to the game, as far as what you said, about these guys whinning, Jerry and Sunshine are two of the best fisherman that frequent this site. They are just voicing their concerns, and trying to make the MWS a better circuit. The first letter in MWS stands for Midwest, not bago.
Eric |
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| Reply from a sportsman, without the financial means to fullfill the burning need of competition and learning ability except through sites like this! (for what its worth)
Weight means NOTHING (in my simple mind) except to the one with the most, be it 2 pounds or 20. The promoters of the tournamnet world need to find ways to gain interest (profit)and attract new people, without the need of massive weights as the main issue in their events. Massive weights show a negative socialogical impact to the industry (at this time anyway.)
BASS is going to new waters, FLW is going to gain many "NEW" people from the Federation The PWT is choosing new waters every year. They are all spreading their wings.
It seems to me that the platform for this series has been established with a good reputation although I don't think it is established enough to gain more competitors in other areas of the midwest as their name implies is it? Travel (and this sport) is expensive and will only knock out the "little" guy.
Many people that fish Otterstreet (fills the first day) also fish this circuit don't they? This gives them another avenue that is not as expensive as the PWT or FLW. Which can be pretty intimidating with those great sticks. Could it be that it's time for a few of you to spread your wings?
I agree with what Jerry is saying and I know there are others with the same opinion, I also felt that way at one time. I also agree with many of the other views. Haven't there been a number of discussions lately about growing this sport and how it could be done?
A sound business plan not only includes your existing customers, it also includes taking away business from the competition. And the most often overlooked part of a successful business plan is finding NEW business which is often the most expensive and time consuming part but can yield great rewards in the long run. You will NOT survive without getting new customers.
As a non competitor it disturbs me to see "pros" discuss massive weights as a reason to fish an event.
Could it be that fishing Bago in August may be the right decission at this time for both the promoter and the customer as well as the sport? No doubt they will have to expand to other areas to grow, but are they ready to take those risks?
Just a few thoughts,
Good luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 12/12/2005 7:22 PM
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| Sometimes it is about show, people who go to weigh-ins don't want to see 1-2 fish limits, and LBD does tend to have its show quality fish, It is of my opinion (just my 2 cents) if you are meant to win it will be no matter where it is held. every one says 80% skill 20% luck but I think sometimes there is a lot more to it than that.
As stated earlier it is nice to get big weight at a tourney. But it is also hard for a promoter to run tournaments and make decisions that keep everyone happy, without promoters there are no tournaments, Jim runs a class act. It is very hard to keep all happy. |
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Location: Appleton wi | My question is why have a tourny at a location when almost everyone traveled 30-50plus miles away from the site to there spots?There is no good bite in lbdn at that time of year. Thats why the first 23 boats all went south to cedar river and atleast another 15 boats behind us all followed so 75% fields all went 40miles south. How about a sturgeon bay or oconto in sept would seem to make more sense. .01$ worth. :-O.
Edited by eye Lunker 12/13/2005 9:43 AM
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | I'm not going to disclose the where's and how far's of my favorite spots on Bay de Noc, but I will say that I've never had to burn more than 10 gallons to get there and back. Two teams that were DQ'd last year with winning weights were not far from the launch. If one is traveling 50 miles one way to find fish they're driving by alot of great water.
As for an Oconto or Sturgeon Bay event at that time......looks like you got your wish. Should be a good bit and a great tourney.
Tyee - I agree with alot of what you ar saying except for the good bite to have a good tourney part. As a tournament fisherman, when I check out to see how others did at an event the first thing out of their mouths wil be how good or bad the bite was. Whether you or others agree or not, alot of tourney guys base a good tourney on how good the bite is. The commonly used phrase is "The bite here sucks....I don't know why we keep coming back here". Good bites bring more fisherman to the event.
Edited by jerry 12/13/2005 10:00 AM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Tyee,
Please explain your comment about:
Massive weights show a negative sociological impact to the industry (at this time anyway.)
What industry? Sociological impact from who?
Doesn’t big weights at the weigh-in help to promote the tourist industry in that area? Wouldn’t more people come to that area if they see the potential? Doesn’t the bait shops, restaurants, and motels benefit?
Doesn’t the sponsors benefit with increased sales of the proven equipment used to get those big weights?
Doesn’t the promoter of the circuit benefit with increased participation the following year?
So who feels bad? Who gets mad?
Are you talking about the local fishermen or lake property owners who would prefer to keep their home lake to them selves and are worried that the increased publicity of their lake harms their chances of doing well in the future? Or they are worried about longer lines at their boat launch?
Are you saying that every time tournament participants bring in big weights we are looked at negatively? By who and why?
Inquisitive minds want to know. Maybe your comments and other reactions to your post or this one require a separate thread so we do not sabotage this one.
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| Like I said, LBDN wasn't exactly a great bite the past couple years. Bigger weight than Bago in August, perhaps. But there have been some decent weights the past couple years in August from Bago. Besides that, there will be more than just a trolling presentation available. We'll get plenty of trolling hours in at the two other Green Bay events.
For the record, I suggested we fish the Madison Chain, or somewhere else than Bago, or Petenwell.
How about considering Castle Rock, the Wausau area, Du Bay, Wissota, Mississippi at Red Wing, LaCrosse, or Genoa. How about the Milwaukee River? |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | IMHO you will be disappointed in Wissota. I have been fishing it for years and feel that it doesn't have the population you are looking for. If you're going that far, you might as well travel another hour to 1 1/2 hours and work closer to Hayward.
The Milwaukee River? There ya' go, now we have an answer that would allow me to be the "local"    Just kidding just like Shep, maybe in 10 years from now. |
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Location: Combined Locks, WI | Like I said earlier on a differnt MWS post, I don't mind events on Green Bay as long as they aren't held out of Green Bay when the bite is on Chambers or held in Menominee when the bite is on the lower Bay. We all know where the fish would generally be at certain times of the year so why hold events at locations that always call for us making long runs. Not all of us have 20Ft boats with 225's on them.
Winnebago gets beat up with enough tournaments each year but the opening weekend event on the Winnebago is perfect. Like Sunshine said it is becoming tradition. It's like the MWS's version of Spring Valley.
Here are some other options that I suggested earlier: Spring Valley, Petenwell, Lake Wisconsin, Lake Gogebic, Mississippi River, Wisconsin River. I still think this series would be making a smart choice by putting in a river event.
I have never fished the complete MWS before, only 1 here 1 there, but in 2006 I will be doing 3 for sure if not all 4. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | The discussion really involves two issues:
1) Replacing the “usual” September Bay de Noc event with an August Bago event,
2) Fishing somewhere other than the Bay or Bago.
First the BdN/Bago issue, Jim stated that the location was changed in hopes of getting more entrants and the numbers at the BdN event have dropped over past years. Here are some possible reasons (In my opinion), which may explain the drop in numbers last year. 1) The BdN event was the last event in the series last year and teams that thought they couldn’t make the championship decided not to fish it. 2) The price of gas. 3) The weather, the wind for the Menominee event made that a rough event on fisherman and equipment. The wind at the Escanaba event wasn’t much better or different. Hence the intimidation discussion above.
Here are some possible reasons (In my opinion), which may boost the numbers at the Bago event. 1) It is the third event and teams that want to make the championship need to fish it. 2) There are a lot of fishermen around the Lake Winnebago system; it may just be a numbers thing.
Second fishing somewhere other than the Bay or Bago, again in my opinion, if the goal is to increase entrants it will be hard to find a location that will do it. TFM use to run an event on Petenwell in the spring (2002 was the last time), if the numbers were good they still might. In 2003 the MWS went to the Minocqua chain, 28 boats caught fish, it doesn’t say how many boats fished the event. Now there have been other locations suggested but I don’t know if those will achieve the goal of increasing entrants.
We will be fishing all four events next year no matter if there is an August Bago event or a September BdN event. All I can say is our team will have fewer expenses if it’s a Bago event versus BdN event.
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| Dennis you know me, I just throwin out the comments regarding the industry "competative angling" that is as I see it.
Many times I have heard how hard it is to grow the sport and directors take the brunt of that responsibility these days at least in the Walleye world. So if they don't keep growing they will not survive.
As for the comment about massive weights being negative, let me offer this for thought. The industry has grown exponentially over the past few years and this industry keeps comparing itself to the Bass World. There always are those that claim dragging around all those big fish all day and weighing them later hurt the populations. (weather true or not, This is a greater number than most think).
There is currently a huge study going on in WI regarding "culling" and "bass" tournament perception in general along with the economic impact.
No it hasn't been "proven as of yet, that culling is a negative or that the socialogical part is a negative or even that economically its a negative. (This will be released next year). I might be wrong but I think you will see that there is a large percentage of anglers that percieve tournaments as a negative impact in all three of those categories here in WI.
We all know that tournament anglers do much more for the industry and the resource than often are given credit for.
..Our DNR will have to adapt but untill they start managing the resource for the torunament anglers I will stand behind that comment.
Whats the difference if one fish or 1000 are caught? Won't the better angler still win?
I think TFM made a very good decission both economically and for the industry! With that said,,, growing the sport without "Massive Weights" is in the best interest of everyone involved, like it or not!
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 12/14/2005 1:39 PM
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