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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Jerry,
Your thread made me think about comparing apples to apples with the PWT versus the FLW. The FLW has not come out with their payout structure yet for 06 so I’m using the information from 05. I’m also taking the liberty of using your cost factor of $1,500 in expenses per tournament. It breaks down as follows:
FLW entry fees = $1260 x 4 = 5040
expenses = $1500 x 4 = $6000
total cost equals $11,040
costs per event equal $ 2760
If you finish 20th place in the FLW at each event you earn $2,500. That means that you would loose $1,040 for the season or $260 per event. This is for someone like you or myself who would not be getting any contingency money. It looks much brighter for someone who has the right boat and motor. That person would collect $5,500 per event for finishing in 20th place. Or looking at it further, they would make $ 10,960.
Let’s take a look at the FLW further for that person who does have the right boat and motor. They can end up in 40th place at each tournament and collect $2,700 per event or loose $60 at each event. If they cut out the extra visit to the bait shop and/or restaurant they could end up even.
I’ll leave the figures speak for themselves and let you make your own interpretation.
I’m still waiting for all the facts and $$ amounts before I make up my mind.
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Location: Rhinelander | Jack, regarding Chase Parson's ranking in the WWR:
1) The WWR also ranks FLW Walleye anglers, so those anglers have an effect on Chase's standings as they do any angler fishing only the PWT.
2) Chase met the criteria to be ranked, but he is a rookie angler in the WWR as well, so his score is not integrated as someone's who has been in the sport for a long period of time would be. Watch Chase next year; if he does as well as he did his rookie year, he'll climb very quickly into the top 25. |
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| Jerry,
You are right based on last season. If the rumors are correct about the FLW Walleye Tour money increasing regardless of the contigencies it may not matter to anglers who are in pursuit of the most money.
Moolah |
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| I ranked the PWT anglers only based upon performance over the past 2 years (WWR formula) including show points which penalize Chase significantly (since he is missing 2004) and I have him at 27th.
His WWR ranking requires him to have 7 tournaments, so he JUST entered the rankings after the PWT championship. He will need 2 more tournaments uner his belt to fully integrate into the rankings, thus the low rankings vs his actual ranking score, which has him much higher.
It is my understanding that the PWT selection is performance based but also has some historical influences. |
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| That was my main point, his lack of history. I'm not anti-Chase by any means, but I have questions about his inclusion because he lacks an established history beyond just last year. That is all. If part of the PWT's equation for selecting the "Elite" 50 includes the Rookie of the Year from the previous year, then I fully understand his being selected. As Johnnie roughly explained, it sounds as if the selection process was based largely by established history, thus my question. |
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| Maybe I missed something.....But who said Chase got in? Has anybody seen a list of "super pro's"? Quite the tizzy over such a young stick.
Even if the "kid" is only a year along in the PWT...I think he's proven he can catch a fish or two. I've seen the "kid" working his butt of at shows. Perhaps a little harder than some spoutin' off about how great thier boat is on the internet. Cut the "kid" some slack, he appears to be doing it the same way most of the "boys" that are already playing the game. Sure the last name Parsons don't hurt. But I'm willing to bet over half the people out there would be sucking up to Parsons or Kieth K given the chance. Hell there's enough people that like to try to attach thier name to another member of thier "network" if they have top 10 finish. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. |
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| Chase did make the new elite Super Pro. I heard it on The Fishing Fanatics radio show last night. Charlie Moore from the PWT was one of the guests. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I just got done listening to FishingFanatics Radio. Very interesting, and I suggest that anyone interested in this subject should listen to the rebroadcast for themselves. Tournament Director Charlie Moore from the PWT did a very nice job explaining things.
Here are the facts as I heard them:
The S u p e r P r o S e r i e s will be 50 to 55 anglers.
Charlie says that this will be the ultimate platform for all anglers to make a living. Giving them (the Pro) the ability to sell themselves.
Massive TV and Magazine coverage.
8 television shows covering 4 events
They want to create the hero’s, someone that sponsors will want to back.
$3,000 entry fee.
139% payback on first three tournaments paid down to about 20 places depending on total entries (based on 50) (get 55 anglers it pays to 55).
175% payback on last tournament called Super Pro Championship
1st ??????
2nd 20,000
3rd 15,000
4th 14,000
5th 13,000
6th 12,000
7th 12,000
As Johnnie mentioned, the qualifying consists of:
1. Career ranking in all time money winnings
2. Top tens
3. Average finish
4. Championships qualified for
Chase Parson was mentioned, he is the 33rd on all time money after one year with 2 top ten finishes. Cashing checks 6 out of 7 tournaments.
End of facts now my impressions………
IMHO, Chase Parson is very deserving to be there. He has proved himself. It’s up to him to stay there in the long run. Our sport needs young guns like him and he is good for business.
The walleye Cup, the boat wrap and the purse sounded interesting to me as an outsider but dollar amounts and angler expectations were not thoroughly explained. BUT the concept sounds very very interesting.
I do not see where some of the complaining is warranted. I can see the sticker shock of fees going up from $1,650 to $3,000 but my gut feeling is that the majority of the Pro’s who make the top fifty will have sponsor help paying for this added cost.
But hey, who am I to judge?  I’m just a want-to-be, hoping to get into 1 or 2 of the PWT regionals. Speaking of the regionals……. They will take 120 entries with a $1400 entry fee (was $1650) and will have Normal Payouts.
There are always people who have a very difficult time with any kind of change. And there are definitely major changes occurring around the PWT. Just like while fishing, those who adapt and look for the new opportunities will do quite well. My gut feeling is that the majority of the people complaining and having threads pulled on various boards are those with hurt feelings or hurt ego's because they are not among the elite 50. There are also those amongst us who are great sticks but are not as good at the business part of this profession. They have a right to be scared if they are not positioned with great sponsors or do not do a good job selling themselves. I feel that we'll be seeing the FULLTIME tournament fisherpeople taking advantage of this kind of opportunity. It will be very interesting. I also look forward to seeing how the FLW reacts to this. After all, both organizations compete for the majority of the real Pro's.
Edited by Sunshine 11/4/2005 3:54 PM
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | If Chase did indeed get in I say congratulations and good luck to him. I had the chance to fish with him two years ago as an amateur and predicted he would have great success on the tour. He's become a good friend and someone who I enjoy talking with before and after the events.
I'm hoping our friend Johnnie Candle gets one of the spots too. I have a hard time understanding how he doesn't qualify, given the time he's put in on the tour and the success he's had.
As I sit and look at the lists from the last three years on the PWT, it isn't difficult to predict who will be invited. I come up with 40 for sures and about 25 maybes. I wish all of them the greatest of luck and I hope this new development on the tour will be a smash hit. |
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Location: Kaukauna WI | Please realize this is my thoughts and my thoughts only. I feel the events will be sucsessfull but in todays market 12000 is still a high reach for any pro to come up with in the top 50 or not! Plus if you add the other 4 you need to have another 6000.00 yes the money is their but wow that allot of cash outlay. |
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Location: Northern Illinois | This reminds me of the HOT STOVE League - which occurs in winter discussing all the moves and trades of major league baseball players. All the talk about new tiers of fisherman, elite anglers, increased payouts will be fun for some, and more anxious for others such as quality guys like Johnnie C, as this unfolds. |
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| Chase Parson has been invited to fish the Super Pros according to Charlie Moore on the radio interview. Now they've gotta come up with the money to fish.
That's a lot of money. For less than that, $2750 to enter, the FLW bass pros get to fish for $100,000 cash and the person in 50th gets $10,000. Of course they take up to 200 boats. Wonder what the FLW payout will be in 2006.
It's all pretty intersting Hot Stove League stuff. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Did I miss something?
Some of the PWT Elite Pro's complain of the new added cost but in reality hasn't their costs gone down? Bare with me for a moment...
I was always under the impression that if you really wanted a shot at making the championship you needed to do all 6 events with the old format.
$1,650 x 6 equals $9,900
With the new format you need to fish three tournaments to make the championship.
$3,000 x 3 equals $9,000.
The above costs do not take into consideration the travel, food etc. of three additional tournaments. Plus, if I heard Charlie correctly the Pro's will get even more opportunity at magazine and TV coverage while doing less tournaments. 8 shows for three qualifiers plus the championship.
I know some will jump all over this and say: "Are you nuts? You're paying $900 less for 1/2 as many tournaments." But in reality, in a true business sense ...............
Your costs have gone down while providing additional exposure for your sponsors (8 shows vs. 7). Plus you now have more free time to represent them (sponsors) in other ways, away from the tournament scene. I think that the bottom line is looking at the payout structure. If you have the opportunity to make about the same amount of money in three tournaments plus championship vs. 7 you are way ahead. One would think that since you are paying $900 less for entry fees, the payouts would reflect this. Do they?
Do the Pro’s feel compelled to fish the regionals also? This obviously would change the whole scenario. I didn’t think that fishing the regionals helped with making the championship or Angler of the year. Does it?
Again, I ask the question……. Did I miss something?
Edited by Sunshine 11/6/2005 8:27 AM
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Location: upper michigan | lets not forget that travel and hotel expense will also be cut with only 3 qualifiers instead of six less gas less hotel time equals less money spent. |
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Location: Dryden, Ontario | There are 4 qualifying events @ $3,000 x 4 = $12,000 for entries.
Chamberlain
Ottertail
Houghton
Mille Lacs
Championship (Cass Lake)?
Overall cost should be about the same for the 4 Super Pro's as was for the 6:
4 x (entries) $3,000 = $12,000 + (4 x (expenses) $2,000 = $8,000) = $20,000
6 x (entries) $1,650 = $9,900 + (6 x (expenses) $2,000 = $12,000) = $21,900
Dennis, to answer a few questioned I missed. Guys who fish the Super Pro's are not obligated or required to fish the Regionals. You are correct this does not helps towards angler of the year but if you miss the Championship cut through the Super Pro's you can qualify through the regionals as they will take up to 10 from the regionals to fish the championship.
Edited by JB251 11/6/2005 11:28 AM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | John,
Thanks for the clarification. Looking at your numbers it seems like my analogy is true. $1,900 less in expenses. I guess it all comes down to payouts.
I'm sure that some who have received the letter have crunched the numbers (if it was shared with them). Anyone want to share if payouts were dicussed in the letter? |
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Location: Dryden, Ontario | Dennis,
Payouts were released in the letters and you are correct it is now up to the anglers to crunch the numbers to decide if it is worth it for them or not. I for one believe for me it is, less travel, more chance to make the championship and a chance at the Angler of the Year Title. From what I understand but I may be wrong they are going to dedicate 8 shows to the 4 Super Pro Events. More TV coverage is good.
Charlie did say what the payouts would be on the Fishing Fanatics show and you listed some of it in your post:
First Three Events.....Fourth Event (Mini Championship)........Year End Championship
1st $65,000..............$75,000.............................................Not Released
2nd 20,000................20,000
3rd 13,000.................15,000
4th 11,000................ 14,000
5th 10,000.................13,000
6th 9,500...................12,500
7th 9,000...................12,000
8th 8,500...................11,000
9th 8,000...................10,500
10th 7,500.................10,000
11th 7,000...................9,000
12th 6,000...................8,000
13th 5,000...................7,000
14th 5,000...................6,500
15th 4,500...................6,500
16th 4,000...................6,000
17th 4,000...................6,000
18th 4,000...................5,500
19th 4,000...................5,500
20th 4,000...................5,000
139% Pay Back............170% Pay Back
Purse will also increase with the moneys generated by the walleye cup program. The intent is with the expanded media coverage it will help guys secure some better sponsorships. Giving them more tools to work with when presenting to a potential non-endemic sponsor.
Not everyone may agree with the changes but time will tell. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
Any evolvement of the sport weather it comes from the PWT of FLW is good for the sport and the anglers involved.
Keep it positive  |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Thanks Again John !
I thought I would add to your chart and show a comparison from last year. Comparing apples to apples.
First Three Events.....Fourth Event (Mini Championship)........Last Year Payouts
$65,000....................$75,000……............................................. $64,000 (includes boat)
2nd 20,000................20,000 ……............................................. $20,000
3rd 13,000.................15,000 ……............................................. $13,000
4th 11,000................ 14,000 ……............................................. $11,000
5th 10,000.................13,000 ……............................................. $10,000
6th 9,500...................12,500 ……............................................. $9,000
7th 9,000...................12,000 ……............................................. $8,000
8th 8,500...................11,000 ……............................................. $7,000
9th 8,000...................10,500 ……............................................. $6,000
10th 7,500.................10,000 ……............................................. $5,000
11th 7,000...................9,000 ……............................................. $4,000
12th 6,000...................8,000 ……............................................. $4,000
13th 5,000...................7,000 ……............................................. $4,000
14th 5,000...................6,500 ……............................................. $4,000
15th 4,500...................6,500 ……............................................. $4,000
16th 4,000...................6,000 ……............................................. $3,500
17th 4,000...................6,000 ……............................................. $3,500
18th 4,000...................5,500 ……............................................. $3,500
19th 4,000...................5,500 ……............................................. $3,500
20th 4,000...................5,000 ……............................................. $3,500
21-25…………………………………………………………………............…. $3,000 each
26-30………………………………………………………………............….... $2,500 each
31-35……………………………………………………………............…….….$2,000 each
36-40…………………………………………………………............…………..$1,700 each
139% Pay Back............170% Pay Back……………………….....…………..147% I think?
For the record, if I heard correctly, the regionals will have the same payout structure as last year with less entry fee. Definitely a nice improvement and better bang for the buck.
Crunching the numbers is very interesting.
I agree, let’s keep it positive.
Edited by Sunshine 11/6/2005 11:26 AM
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| The first place prize for the Super Pro events is not cash only. It also include a Mercury, Lund combo.
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| I was just thinking...from a fan point of view....
Just thinking out loud, here....
One thing about the "Elite 50" idea that I do like, is the fact that smaller bodies water can be used for the tournies. I think that could be a marketing plus. It opens up a whole lot of potential new tournament sites
It also could possibly return the emphasis more to the fishing part and maybe a little less on the transportation part.
On a smaller body of water, smaller (ok... less expensive) ride might do just fine.
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| Johnnie, Thanks for the info. Its good to have a pro act in a professional manner and you do that well.
It seems to make more sense to me to base invites on more recent performance. Jim Brown still holds a number of NFL records but I don't think he should be invited to the ProBowl. |
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| NWwalleyeguy - 11/9/2005 7:06 PM
Johnnie, Thanks for the info. Its good to have a pro act in a professional manner and you do that well.
It seems to make more sense to me to base invites on more recent performance. Jim Brown still holds a number of NFL records but I don't think he should be invited to the ProBowl.
Nice post.
Only 1 small thing to add. Thats why they call it the "Pro Bowl" and not the ELITE 50. Meaning they have an all NFL,NBA,MLB teams. They should have named the New PWT tour "The 2006 PWT Pro bowl" ? Then they could just do what every they want. Guys would have just have to put up #'s any year to get in? Just a quick thought, leaving some guys out of an "Elite" tour is drawing some real bad blood from what I see. This is going to one LONG off season! lol |
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