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Location: Winneconne, WI | I just received some information from the Village President in Winneconne...Years ago when they closed the locks on the Fox River by Green Bay the feds wanted to make a tax on all boats on the Federal Waterway, which at that time included the Lake Winnebago Chain. People complained at which time Congressman Tom Petri took the Winnebago Chain, up from the locks in Green Bay, off the Federal Navigable Water list. The Coast Guard stated to me they got a new Captain in the Milwaukee Office and he is gung-ho!!! In speaking with the Green Bay office they state the Winnebago waterway is not federal water and didn't seem to know what I was talking about. I sent a e-mail to Tom Petri about this and am waiting for his reply. |
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Your barking up the right tree by contacting Petri. Good job and let us know his reply! |
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Member
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Location: Winneconne, WI | As soon as I receive notice I will post---I also sent a letter to State Sen Ellis and US Senator Feingold---I will forward a copy of this letter to anyone interested----just need your e-mail address---mine is [email protected] |
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| Sauger, Just finished reading something about the Winnebago system being under Federal Jurisdiction. It came up in A discussion about Federal and State PFD laws and It was said that the coastguard is the only authority that can inforce the Federal PFD laws on winnebago |
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| I think everyone is missing the most important point, the issue of navigability. Having spent a fair amount of time in state and county government dealing with this issue. I believe I can shed some light on the subject. If you will notice the coast guard or federal authority extends to the upstream portion of tributaries to the great lakes and/or the Mississippi river, which are considered navigable. This is usually the first dam encountered, unless there is a lock at that dam. With regard to the Fox River there is a lock and dam system extending all the way up to the Winnebago system. The problem is it is not operational and hasn't been for quite a few years. How does that affect Federal jurisdiction? Good question, there have been rumblings about restoring these locks to again allow navigation from lake Michigan to the Winnebago system. My thoughts are it will never happen because of the expense to restore and operate the lock system, as well as the threat of exotics from the great lakes. In either case I am quite sure this is why the Winnebago system is still on the federal list of navigable waters. That being said, could you get a ticket for taking clients out on a fishing trip on the Winnebago system without a captain’s license? I would say yes. Would you have a reasonably good court case to defend yourself? I would again say yes. The federal government has not put any effort into maintaining the lock and dam system. In fact I would ask this question, if the federal government has not maintained the lock system for 20 years or more could the State of Wisconsin claim adverse possession on behalf of the citizens, of which the State acts as a trustee, for all inland navigable waters? I also believe, but could be mistaken, the jurisdiction for the Winnebago system would fall under the Green Bay Coast Guard station, if this is true are they able to navigate to the Winnebago system? Just some food for thought. |
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Location: Rhinelander | Mark,
Thanks for the reply. I suppose that the exotics issue alone would slow or stop any desires to lock through, but is there ANY possibility that could happen again? I am pretty sure the State would have no desire to spend the necessary funds, and the Feds have already announced their opinion by doing nothing.
Interesting issue. I am also aware that the Feds are trying to hand over control of many issues to the local or state level, is that a trend with the waterways? |
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Member
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Location: Winneconne, WI | I have received word back from Petri, Feingold, Kohl, and Ellis. Feingold pretty much gave me the run around and said he is looking in to it---Petri called and also sent a letter and said he is looking into it---Kohl---said he was looking into it and Ellis stated that I brought up some valid points and he said he personally contacted Petri in this matter |
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| Typical political B.S. Never get a straight answer! Did you expect anything more? I wonder what would happen if a citation were issued? How much do you think it would cost for your lawyer and how long do you think it would take to fight? What if there was an accident and your insurance company refused to pay in a cival suit? Could the fines and legal expenses put the average guide out of business? Hummmmm....I don't think it's worth the risk. We need a big club with enough clout to get this thing resolved, because quite frankly I don't think it's worth the risk! Somebody call B.A.S.S or the FLW they have plenty of clout in WI Gov't! I don't think I would be much help with ya though!
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 6/7/2004 9:18 PM
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Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | A good friend of mine who is a charter captain in Racine recently attended the yearly meeting with the coast guard. With no prodding from the audience, the coast guard brought up the Winnebago situation and said that there will be coast guard presence throughout the summer and that there would probably be sting operations going on similar to what has been done on Lake Michigan. My understanding is that they call area guides/captains and book a date. When they are out on the water, they pull out the badges and write the citation.
I have had to cancel and/or turn down guide trips on bago for this summer and will continue to do so until I get the necessary training and paperwork completed.
I know that this has been on the books for sometime but I wish they would have given us a friendly timeframe to complete this prior to the enforcement. This hurts financially.
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| A friendly timeframe to continue breaking the law? Good one. |
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| Not a "friendly time frame to break the law" at all... It was almsot universally understood that the interpretation was that Winnebago was not subject to Coast Guard rules... After some "people" changes in the Coast Guard they revisited the situation and decided that they were responsible and were therefore going to enforce the rules... It is a bit facetious to say it is "navigable" since the locks don't work... And, the feds don't/won't fix the locks (and shouldn't)....
I have no dog in this fight since I am not a guide but I don't like to see honest people hammered or bashed by a post that is at best misguided or ignorant of the circumstances. |
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| First, the Department of Homeland Security redefined all listed Federal waterways in an effort to know the entire scope of thier responsability. Second, after talking to Congresman's Greens office I found that by agreement the local communities who bought the lock and dam system can never resore all the locks and must keep one closed as a lampey barrier. Third, future plans are for a boat lift to complete a navigable waterway.
After talking with people and business owners in Fremont, Winneocnne and New London, we hope to have a meeting to discuss a plan to have a portion of the waterway removed from the list of Federal waters. It can only be done with the help of our congressman and it won't happen over night.
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| HaHa, Almost universally understood! Uh if it's listed as a federal waterway you best have the correct documentation or you are operating illegally no matter how almost universally misinformed you may be. Ignorance of the circumstance and what is the law won't hold water in court. There's your ignorance. |
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Member
Posts: 188
Location: Westland, Mich. | hey, okay. troll somewhere else; this is a serious issue for those with a vested interest in making a living on the waters in question. You would be stupid or naive to think that a reputable guide would go out of his way to break the law. On the other hand, when a new law or enforcement policy goes into effect there is always a pre-established date before legal action will be taken. That’s all anyone here wants, a chance to get training and certification in a reasonable time frame before enforcement begins. How ‘bout you log in before you spout off again? Or maybe a moderator can check your ip address and see who you really are? |
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| It's not a new law, an oupv as a minimum is required of any person operating a boat for hire on waters that fall under federal jurisdiction. It is a serious issue I would agree, it is also a serious issue with those guides who do have proper documentation as well as those who don't. |
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Member
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Location: Omro,Wi. | I'll would like to give you my own opinion here,on this subject,and hope nobody gets upset.I've been guiding on this system for 10 years now,and have made many new,and good friends,and taught many novices the ropes.I myself have no complaints about having to get a (OUPV) to continue doing so,but the timing,and lack of information is a little anoying.I do believe that some form off notice or grace period would have sat better with us all.Having to cancel someones trip,that may have been a big part of their vacation,is not professional,or received well by some off my newer clients.Although most new clients have agreed to wait until I have my Documentation in order.I will still take the Regulars,that have been coming for years,and they understand the circumstances.I just hope it all comes togeather for all the guides in the area,and for the sake of the people with NO Boats,and the same desire we have,toward the outdoors,may it be soon....hafe |
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|  That is a nice walleye |
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Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | And we brought up a two year old post because??????????????????????? |
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| I guess I'm not quite clear on why we are so worried about the issue in the first place. If you want to guide on Winnebago, get a captain's liscense. Going through the training would likely teach you many important traits in both safety for your client and knowledge of the laws which could prevent a possible ticket. I think it is important that the state of Wisconsin makes liscensed guides a quailfied position with minumum requirements of proper insurance and cpr training. This is a business and I am not familiar with any business in America where you can get all of your proper paperwork done for $40 and five minutes. At first thoughts of being a guide are "making money fishing". It is not this way. I've guided with regularity since I was 18 and understand that this is a business where you potentially put people's health at risk. I think we need to take it seriously. Also, if all guides on Winnebago are trained captains, don't you think the comfort level of the client booking a trip would be improved? It is also going to weed out some of the one day a year guides, ensuring that the average Winnebago guide is well equipped, knowledgeable and professional making the client's experience better and improving the image of the area. |
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