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Location: Berlin | For those of you that have never seen one, here is my silver lab:
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Posts: 1991
| Nice looking pooch, got to love a lab |
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Location: Appleton wi | Rich thats the first time i'v seen picture of silver lab. Nice looking dog and unique! i love my choc lab! |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Rich.
We looked into buying a Sliver lab from a breader in Wisconsin. Great looking dogs but Buco bucks. Those green eye pupils are mezmorizing. They also said it takes 2 generations of breeding silver labs to actually get another silver lab. Did they tell you the same thing? |
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Location: Elgin, Illinois | Very pretty dog... I love Labs... You and Dan are lucky fellows... |
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Location: Berlin | walleye express - 11/14/2007 6:41 PM
Rich.
We looked into buying a Sliver lab from a breader in Wisconsin. Great looking dogs but Buco bucks. Those green eye pupils are mezmorizing. They also said it takes 2 generations of breeding silver labs to actually get another silver lab. Did they tell you the same thing?
Not sure on that one Dan. I know his parents were both Silver's and his brother was a Silver as well. Super dog but like to pee every time I am around. I believe it is his way of being submissive. Any of you Lab owners experience this? |
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Member
Posts: 67
| I have a silver lab that just turned 4 this week. Great dogs, he gets mistaken for a wiemweyer all the time. Most people think you are crazy when you tell them you have a silver lab. Great looking pup Rich.
Edited by eyekatcher 11/15/2007 6:56 AM
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| Not to burst anyones bubble, it definetly is a beautiful dog. But there is only 3 colors of Labs no matter what way you look at it. Black, Chocolate, and Yellow. Dont get me wrong there is variations of the colors, but my guess is thats a chocolate lab with a silver look. A lot like a "WHITE LAB" is a ivory version of a Yellow Lab, and a "FOX RED" is a reddish version of a Yellow Lab. Maybe Im out in left field, but I have had some lab pups around a time or two...And every kennel that I have checked into claims the same. Although, this is even a first for me to see this silver lab, so let me know if Im missing something! |
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Location: Berlin | This is one of the most common questions voiced by the public. Commonly the answer is provided that " the silver Labrador is not a Labrador at all because it is a product of crossbreeding (interbreeding)." This statement may hold both truth and fiction.
Some individuals may argue from the point that up until a few decades ago, the chocolate Lab was, indeed, a minority with many people doubting the genetic integrity of the chocolate coloration. In bench competition, chocolates were often disqualified from competition and even in recent years the chocolates still are considered disparagingly among some Labrador enthusiasts. However, the "liver" (chocolate) coloration appears in most of the retriever breeds and also appears in the original ancestors of the Labrador. In support of this, records of early breedings, around the late 1800s, confirmed that livers were occasionally whelped to black Labs.
Though it is suspected that the yellow coloration was the product of interbreeding, yellow Labradors have been around since the breed was originally accepted as a purebred dog. Therefore, the yellow coloration, though foreign to the original ancestors of the breed (since no yellowed-colored water dogs, only black and occassionally liver-colored, were ever documented as arriving from the breed's country of origin, St. John's) was recognized as an acceptable trait in the Labrador.
So, what of silver? Given the fact that much inbreeding was performed during the early history of the breed because of the small gene-pool, expression of the silver trait would have occurred at least frequently enough for someone to take note of its existence. This was, indeed, the case with the expression of the "black and tan" trait. Early history cites cases of puppies born with tan points (as found in Dobermans, Rottweilers, etc.). This trait was attributed to early interbreeding with Gordon Setters. There is no record, however, of silver Labs or any similar color documented in the stud books spanning the years 1878 to at least 1948 (though other color oddities are documented). This strongly suggests that the silver color is not a color that was present (indigenous) in the early ancestors of the Labrador breed. Therefore, the color must have been introduced sometime after the 1940s. The instances of silver Labs appearing, albeit rarely, in litters from the general population that bear no common ancestors within several or more generations suggests that the gene has been in the population for quite a few decades (This does not necessarily rule out the possibility of more recent interbreeding to purposely achieve or increase frequency of expression of the color). As such, possibilities for the origin of the silver gene may include, but are not limited to the following: 1) a spontaneous gene mutation, or 2) mid-history introduction of the silver gene through interbreeding with a breed carrying the silver gene.
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| That's the 3rd one I've seen. The first was around 1984, when I was Field Trialig my labs. Starnge looking at that time, it grew quite a few looks. I think they are spooky looking. We had several Weimies growing up, and one was named Spooky. It's the eyes, I tell ya.
You never saw a choclate Lab in field trials in the 80's. And to this day, the stigma still exists that the best dogs are Black, followed by Yellow, the Chocolates being a disatnt third. My guess is the Silvers rate out higher than the Chocolates.
Go figure, I have a Black. She will throw Yellows, too. Next year! |
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| Thanks Rich S. I was unaware of this, and my yellow female will be having pups again in the spring...So I am truely a lab lover, just trying to get more info....Thanks again!
WalleyeHunter |
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Location: Berlin | I am just happy we decided to go with a lab. So far, my best dog hands down! Great with the kids and a very loving dog. |
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| If you look and research the silver on the web you will find that the silver coloration is actually a double recessive trait in the labs. Yes they have to be registered as a chocolate because the AKC does not recognize the breed yet but that is true of the Ivories and also the Fox color labs as well they have to be registered as yellows. Bottom line is you do not see a lot of them they are different and very cool indeed. Rich if your Silver is anything like mine which weighs 96 pounds right now your kids will have a blast. Very loving animals... Kinda wish I would not of had mine fixed but he was a little hyper and still is at the young age of 4. Good luck with the pup I am sure your kids will have a blast.
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Location: Appleton wi | Shep please help me here i'm trying to understand your thought pattern? Are you saying if black male lab and black female lab have a 4 puppy litter and one out of the four is choc and the 3 other are black that the choc puppy is doomed to never achieve greatest in the field simply do to its color ? And the 3 blackie are superior overall ? |
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| found these 2 article interesting
http://www.labbies.com/silver.htm
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/silverlabs.html
I myself think the dogs are gorgeous. Almost bought one last year, but i fell in love with a chocolate litter. |
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Location: Berlin | eye Lunker - 11/16/2007 10:25 AM
Shep please help me here i'm trying to understand your thought pattern? Are you saying if black male lab and black female lab have a 4 puppy litter and one out of the four is choc and the 3 other are black that the choc puppy is doomed to never achieve greatest in the field simply do to its color ? And the 3 blackie are superior overall ?
In the world of Labs, Black is considered the primary color then Yellows then Chocolate. This is just the way it is. Chocolate labs were not even allowed in some competitions until recently. The Silver Lab is going through the same stages the Chocolate just went through. In a few years, there will be AKC Silver Labs. |
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| More good info...and sounds like the liver colored perhaps one of the oldest
The Labrador Retriever was developed in England in the mid 1800s by a handful of private kennels dedicated to developing and refining the perfect gundog. That many such kennels were pursuing their own vision of such a dog is the reason behind the variety of today's retriever breeds.
By the turn of the century, these retrievers were appearing in the British Kennel Club's events. At this point, retrievers from the same litter could wind up being registered as different retrievers. The initial category of "Retrievers" included curly coats, flat coats, liver-colored retrievers and the Norfolk retriever (now extinct). As types became fixed, separate breeds were created for each and the Labrador Retriever finally gained its separate registration under the Kennel Club in 1903.
While there have been strains of Labradors bred pure up to this time, it is unknown how many of these cross-bred dogs were folded into "Labradors" or into other breeds as the registrations began to separate. Many breeders feel that crossbreeding at this time accounts for much of the poor type that can appear today; however claims about the use of Pointers or Rottweilers can probably be safely discounted.
The first two decades in the 20th century saw the formation in Britain of some of the most influential kennels that provided the basis for the breed as we know it today. Lord Knutsford's Munden Labradors, and Lady Howe's Banchory Labradors are among several. At this time, many dogs distinguished themselves in both field trials and conformation shows; the high number of Dual Champions at this time attests to the breed's versatility.
Labradors were first imported to the United States during World War I. At this point, the AKC still classified them as "Retrievers;" it was not until the late 1920's that the retrievers were split up into the breeds we know today in the AKC. The Labrador Retriever has been used heavily in the US as a gundog; the American Labrador Retriever Club, Inc. (LRC, Inc), is to this day primarily a field trial organization, and it was instrumental in forming the AKC field trials.
The two World Wars greatly diminished the breed in numbers (as it did many others). After the second World War saw the rise of the Labrador Retriever in the United States, where Britain's Sandylands kennel through imports going back to Eng CH Sandyland's Mark influenced the shape and direction the show lines took in this country. Other influential dogs include American Dual CH Shed of Arden, a grandson of English Dual CH Banchory Bolo, especially evident in field trial lines.
This return trip to the Americas resulted in the widely expanded use of the Labrador as a gun dog. In Britain, the Labrador was, and still is, used primarily for upland game hunting, often organized as a driven bird shoot. Typically, separate breeds were used for different tasks; and the Labrador was strictly for marking the fall, tracking and retrieving the game. But in the United States and Canada, the breed's excellence at waterfowl work and game finding became apparent and the Labrador soon proved himself adaptable to the wider and rougher range of hunting conditions available. The differences between British and American field trials are particularly illustrative.
Many old treatises and articles on gun dogs make it clear that yellows and livers were evident and even common before any recorded breeding was the rule. Spaniels, Poodles, Setters, Retrievers, and even pointers occasionally displayed yellow and liver coloring. In fact, calling a dog "liver" one or two hundred years ago could mean any color from yellow to red to liver or brown.
In the earliest years of the Labrador, yellows were simply culled. The first registered yellow was Ben of Hyde, out of two black dogs, themselves from import stock. Ben produced many yellows when bred to black bitches; if the genetics were the same then as now, this indicates that many blacks were actually heterozygous for black. Oddly, his yellow littermate Juno produced few if any yellows when she was bred to blacks. However, bitches produce few puppies compared to dogs so chance probably stepped in with homozygous dominant black mates for Juno.
The anti-yellow sentiment was so strong that in the 1920's experienced breeders reported being directed to the Golden Retriever ring! At this point, dogs of this color did suffer a wide variation of incorrect type -- it's easy to find pictures of old yellow Labradors with very houndy features. A separate standard was briefly drawn up to address this problem, but eventually it was felt that yellows should simply adhere to the same standard as blacks. Today, you will find as many, if not more, yellows as blacks of the same quality. Only in some hunting circles will you still find the erroneous opinion that "blacks make better hunters."
Chocolates, like yellows, have also been present all along in the breed. In fact, the well known story of the origins of the Chesapeake Bay Retriever refers to an 1807 shipwreck involving two St. John's dogs probably destined for Poole and hence to Malmesbury or Buccleugh: one black and one liver. Some believe that the chocolate color was introduced into Labradors around the turn of the century by crossing with Pointers. This is unlikely for several reasons:
Prior documented presence of livers in the St. John's dogs.
The presence of the liver color in many other closely related breeds, such as the Flat-coat, Chesapeake, and Newfoundland.
Since liver is recessive to black, it is perfectly possible to "hide" the gene in many generations of black, especially if the occasional liver is quietly culled.
Chocolate Labradors have gained favor much more slowly than the yellows have, although culling of them probably declined about the same time. They did well in early field trials at the turn of the century but it was not until 1964 that Britain had its first chocolate bench champion, Cookridge Tango.
Chocolates are by far the rarest color in the ring, whether show or field. They are increasing in popularity steadily, though, and in another 10 years may equal the other colors in numbers, acceptance, and quality. Prejudice against chocolates in both show and field arenas is still widely present today. They are either "too ugly" for the show ring or "too stupid/stubborn" for the field.
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Location: Waukesha, WI | beautiful lab. I didn't realize silver existed. Mine started becoming "silver" as she aged. Sadly had to put her down a week before she was 13 years old in September. I didn't last a week before rescuing a lab mix from a local humane society. Mike
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| Sorry to hear about your dog. It is amazing how attached we can become to animals. Glad to hear you got another one and may it bring you as much joy as the last! |
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Member
Posts: 127
| SORRY TO HAVE TO SAY THIS, BUT THERE ARE ONLY 3 COLORS OF LABS IN THE LAB WORLD. I TOOK A GOOD LOOK AT YOUR PICTURE AND THE ONLY THING SILVER ON THAT PUP IS HIS EARS. WE AMERICAN PEOPLE LOVE OUR LABS . THERE'S THE PEOPLE WHO WANT A SMALLER ONE, THERE'S PEOPLE WHO WANT A MED. SIZED LAB, AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT THE TRUE LAB, WHICH IS BIG, STOCKY, MUSCULAR, WITH THE HUGE HEAD. I'VE OWN LABS ALL MY LIFE AND THE ONLY LABS THAT FIT THAT BILL ARE THE SHOW LABS I SEE ON T.V. THAT ACUALLY ARE BRED AND BORN IN LABRADOR. |
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| I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS I THINK THERE'S TO MUCH SCIENCE INVLOVED (CROSS BREEDING,INBREEDIND) THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT ALONE A HUNDRED YEARS AGO. |
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| Not sure how to take your post and not sure why you felt the need to insult my dog. I could care less about if you think he is silver or not. HAPPY THANKSGIVING |
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Posts: 127
| I WAS WRONG MY POST ABOUT THE LADS BEENING BRED AND BORN IN LABRADOR. IT IS ENGLAND WHERE LABS GOT THEIR START. THE EARLY DUCK MARKET HUNTERS USED THE BIG BLOCKY LABS IN THE CHESAPEAK INLABRADOR. |
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Posts: 127
| SORRY , I'M A LAB LOVER AND I DO THINK YOUR NEW PUP IS A BEUTY ! I HOPE IT WORKS OUT GOOD FOR YOU. MY MAIN FUSS IS THE CONSTENT CHANGES IN THE DOG BREEDING WORLD. ONCE AGAIN SORRY, AND YOU HAVE A GREAT T-DAY !!!!! |
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Location: Berlin | Thanks for clarifying and you also have a great Turkey Day! |
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